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Would you buy bitcoin if it was linked to major currencies?

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    #32
    srsly78
    Registered Users Posts: 7,157 ✭✭✭srsly78


    WileyCoyote wrote: »
    If it was linked to the Dollar/Euro/pound then why bother with it? Why not just use the established currencies that it was linked this to?

    Because Silk Road does not accept Euros duh.


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    #33
    hooradiation
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,922 ✭✭✭hooradiation


    Oh dear, bitcoins

    Bitcoin [noun]
    a mixture of magic and flimflam, designed to appeal to stupid people


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    #34
    EclipsiumRasa
    Registered Users Posts: 65 ✭✭EclipsiumRasa


    Are we talking about a major currency that has a centralised bank and can devalue the currency, or something like the Euro?

    In any case I'd buy it if I was intending to use it for an entirely legal morally wholesome internet transaction and either it was the best option or there were no other alternatives. So, basically I'd treat it like Paypal*.

    *Except not feel so dirty or so much self loathing afterwards.


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    #35
    Spunge
    Registered Users Posts: 2,779 ✭✭✭Spunge


    i meant to buy in 1k in december but it was such a pain in the ass and the bank was always closed when i finished work so i ended up not buying in til aprill 11th.

    the day it dropped frmo 266 to like 50.

    would have had 20k if i invested when i first intended, instead i was down 1200. but gained some of it back trading but had to sell of all my coins to pay a debt.

    now i have no coins :( and im at a loss

    wouldnt mind just sitting on the 10 coins i had like for a few months. seeing where it goes, but im scared to buy in again.


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    #36
    Therightway
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9 ✭Therightway


    Stop thinking short term spunge,
    Think BTC worth, not Btc value in €


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    #37
    hatrickpatrick
    Registered Users Posts: 17,797 ✭✭✭✭hatrickpatrick


    hooradiation wrote: »
    Oh dear, bitcoins

    Bitcoin [noun]
    a mixture of magic and flimflam, designed to appeal to stupid people

    That pretty much sums up all major currencies worldwide. The only difference is they are "backed" by government - fat lot of good that's done them. What does it even mean? Backed by what? They're no longer tied to anything meaningful so how are they any less "real" than bitcoin?


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    #38
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 17,381 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Blisterman wrote: »
    I don't see the point of your proposal OP. If you wanted an average of the dollar, pound, euro and singapore dollar, you could just split your savings between them, rather than use some new currency which barely anybody accepts.

    I want what the currency can offer.. I live in VN so my banking options are severely limited and the banks could collapse at any time. If I keep reading articles where the advocates of the currency always talk about its apparent positives, then I at least expect to be able to hold some significant value in it. I couldn't buy 10k of it tomorrow and expect to relax and feel like it's safe

    It's destined to fail unless it can be stabilized. If it doesn't have any underlying economic variables, it needs to borrow them.


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    #39
    opinion guy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 11,001 ✭✭✭✭opinion guy


    I don't know what a tracker mortgage is ??:confused:


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    #40
    Del2005
    Registered Users Posts: 18,901 ✭✭✭✭Del2005


    hatrickpatrick wrote: »
    That pretty much sums up all major currencies worldwide. The only difference is they are "backed" by government - fat lot of good that's done them. What does it even mean? Backed by what? They're no longer tied to anything meaningful so how are they any less "real" than bitcoin?

    Currencies aren't backed by governments. They are backed by independent central banks, who loan the money they make up to governments.
    Spunge wrote: »
    wouldnt mind just sitting on the 10 coins i had like for a few months. seeing where it goes, but im scared to buy in again.

    Do you sit on your € hopping it'll increase in value compared to £ or $? It's the same principle.


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    #41
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 17,381 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Del2005 wrote: »
    Currencies aren't backed by governments. They are backed by independent central banks, who loan the money they make up to governments.

    Pretty sure they're backed my governments.


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    #42
    Del2005
    Registered Users Posts: 18,901 ✭✭✭✭Del2005


    Deleted User wrote: »
    Pretty sure they're backed my governments.

    It's more the other way around, they back governments by loaning them money.


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    #43
    belcampprisoner
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 698 ✭✭✭belcampprisoner


    stay away from bitcoins its total scam one day the house of cards is going to fall


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    #44
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 17,381 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Del2005 wrote: »
    It's more the other way around, they back governments by loaning them money.

    Maybe our definitions of "back the currency" are different.. What exactly do you mean?


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    #45
    hatrickpatrick
    Registered Users Posts: 17,797 ✭✭✭✭hatrickpatrick


    Del2005 wrote: »
    Currencies aren't backed by governments. They are backed by independent central banks, who loan the money they make up to governments.

    Ok but again what does that even mean? All modern currencies are fiat currencies, there's nothing "real" to back them up.


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    #46
    srsly78
    Registered Users Posts: 7,157 ✭✭✭srsly78


    hatrickpatrick wrote: »
    Ok but again what does that even mean? All modern currencies are fiat currencies, there's nothing "real" to back them up.

    Nuclear weapons and armies etc back them up. Sovereigns have a monopoly on violence.


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    #47
    KyussBishop
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,797 ✭✭✭KyussBishop


    What ensures the value/demand for fiat money, is that the money is the only way to pay taxes in its country of origin, which means you can not avoid it where you need to pay taxes.

    Money doesn't need to be 'backed' by any physical commodity, that is just a waste of resources - it's a massive waste of productive effort to dig up gold out of the ground, and put it into another hole in the ground (a bank vault), when you can just have someone type a few digits onto a computer at the central bank, and when that productive potential could be put to better use.


    Money is supposed to be used, to unlock the full productive potential of economies (which basically translates into providing full employment); when you have anything less than this, money is restricting the economy, instead of unlocking its full potential.

    To unlock the full productive potential of an economy, all the time, you basically need a central authority with control over the money supply; if instead, you have a money supply which grows too slowly (like gold/bitcoin), you can not unlock the full productive potential of an economy (money becomes a restriction), and if you have a money supply which grows too quickly (like more abundant metals), you get too much inflation and instability.


    There is no commodity or non-political way of setting the money supply (including 'independent' central banks), which allows the permanent unlocking of an economies full productive potential; this is why fiat money will always be the way things are done, going into the future.


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    #48
    hatrickpatrick
    Registered Users Posts: 17,797 ✭✭✭✭hatrickpatrick


    KyussBishop wrote: »
    Money is supposed to be used, to unlock the full productive potential of economies (which basically translates into providing full employment); when you have anything less than this, money is restricting the economy, instead of unlocking its full potential.

    But that's exactly what's happening right now with established currencies. We still have the ability and need to produce as much food and equipment as we did pre-2008, but the entire currency system has fallen apart and central banks are refusing to take the necessary steps to fix them, in part because of political interference (for example - let's be honest about this - the German government says jump and the ECB says how high).

    I like Bitcoin because that kind of crap is never going to happen with it, and also because when it's generated, it's not generated as a loan with interest, so there's unlikely to be an inherent boom and bust nature to it when non existent debts are called in and the whole game of musical chairs collapses.

    Obviously it's not perfect by a long shot but at the very least I'm hoping it opens a wider debate about how idiotic our current system of currencies is and the idea that it doesn't have to be set in stone, we can come up with something better.


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    #49
    KyussBishop
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,797 ✭✭✭KyussBishop


    I agree totally, the current fiat currencies are being mismanaged (and that with the ECB, Germany largely has the greater say), but the problem is, you must work with the fiat currencies (promoting reform of them), because a countries sovereign currency is the only stable and democratic way to unlock the full productive potential of economies.

    Bitcoin is useful as a potentially-anonymous transactional currency, but it already effectively has 'interest' deducted, because that's what automatically happens with a deflationary currency: The people hoarding bitcoins, see an increase in value of their bitcoins, which is effectively 'taxed' off the back of economic activity.

    There also is a boom and bust, because bitcoin is being used expressly for speculation, where the richest bitcoin hoarders can inflate and pop the market, to make speculative profits; that's not sustainable.


    Repeating my original point though: Alternative currencies can't solve our current problems, because what is needed is for a reform of sovereign currencies (putting them to use for public purpose, to unlock permanent full employment); alternatives are interesting, certainly, but all the economic solutions go back to fiat money and monetary reform.

    Again, in short, for a stable currency able to unlock permanent full employment, in a democratic way, you need a government controlled fiat currency; these alternatives can not provide that.


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    #50
    anhedonia
    Closed Accounts Posts: 391 ✭✭anhedonia


    It kinda makes me wish I hadnt quit partying, as I look at the silk road setup and almost drool over the quality product coming out of the Netherlands. Or maybe I got out just in time :')


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    #51
    Spunge
    Registered Users Posts: 2,779 ✭✭✭Spunge


    Del2005 wrote: »
    Currencies aren't backed by governments. They are backed by independent central banks, who loan the money they make up to governments.



    Do you sit on your € hopping it'll increase in value compared to £ or $? It's the same principle.

    considering it had a 2000% price increase in the last 4 months i wouldnt say its the same. but now back to about 1000%


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    #52
    oppenheimer1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,084 ✭✭✭oppenheimer1


    af_thefragile wrote: »
    Its a use able currency as long as sellers are willing to deal with it.
    No one can stop sellers from dealing in bit coins. It has many advantages that its not taxed, your bank won't charge a fee for international transactions, its very informal so difficult to track although bit coin does keep logs of every transaction. The way it is designed, its value should theoretically remain stable.

    Although right now people are hoarding it hoping its value goes up in the future and they'll make a nice profit off it. This is driving a bubble as more and more people look to hoard bit coins and its demand is increasing driving up its value. But the clever thing about bitcoins is its supply is limited so no one can go hoarding bit coins. Bit coins are released at a set rate and although there is a race to mine bit coins going on, they can't mine it any faster than the rate at which bit coins are designed to be released. This keeps the supply limited which in theory should keep its value stable.

    Truth is no one can predict what the future holds for bit coins. Economics can make predictions but at the end of the day they're just predictions are economic predictions are often wrong.

    One can assume more vendors and private sellers will prefer to deal with bit coins in the future as its hassle free and as long as there are sellers willing to accept bit coins as a form of currency, bit coins will remain as a valuable form of currency.

    You've got it completely wrong. The reason why the value is so volatile is because supply is fixed. In a traditional currency the central bank would issue more currency to prevent a massive increase in price. This is essentially what the Swiss had to do when the euro crisis prompted a flight to the franc.

    The reason bitcoin is currently useless as a currency is because of its inherent design flaw, that supply isn't flexible. Its the same flaw that brought down the gold standard. No one will buy anything with it if they cannot reasonably predict the price of assets in a few weeks or months, let alone days or hours with bitcoin.

    Bit coin can best be seen as an investment, like gold or any other useless commodity.


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    #53
    hooradiation
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,922 ✭✭✭hooradiation


    hatrickpatrick wrote: »
    That pretty much sums up all major currencies worldwide. The only difference is they are "backed" by government - fat lot of good that's done them. What does it even mean? Backed by what? They're no longer tied to anything meaningful so how are they any less "real" than bitcoin?

    When I can buy something useful with bitcoins then it can be something more than a scam.

    Well, it'll always be a scam. I guess there's no changing that.


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