Frustrated by TCD freshman economics

turbot · 19-11-2014 1:17pm

I did BESS for 1st year and had a similar experience. It was so easy (coming from a-levels) that my first year involved a lot of social fun and working outside college.

But as they say, don't let your education get in the way of your learning. If you have lots of extra time, learn cool stuff under your own direction. Get a kindle app & buy books... attend debates... enter contests... learn advanced excel... teach yourself to code. Don't expect others to stretch you... you have to stretch yourself!

Frustrated Fresher · 21-11-2014 1:47pm

I thought this thread had died and gone to Boards heaven. I'm delighted that someone actually agrees with me! I didn't know about the Nobel Popular Information. Thanks for heads up because they seem pretty good. By "Varian", do you mean the textbook Intermediate Economics? I know that's the prescribed text for next year, but is it known for being especially good?

I gather Econ Pol when Ronan Lyons takes over in the second semester starts to diverge more from Intro to Econ. So the perfect solution under the circumstances is to allow TSM economists to take a Broad Curriculum module in Michaelmas and then the second semester of Econ Pol when it doesn't merely cover everything in Intro to Econ...but slower.

Several people on the thread have said something along the lines of, "this is third level, you should be motivating yourself, etc." And I accept that that is true. But it's very difficult to motivate yourself to study material that's not directed by your lectures in some way. It's easy to say I should read ahead. But read what in particular?! There's so much! Unless I feel there's going to be some direct benefit to my studies, how can it be expected that I would study Varian in my spare time?

We just had our midterms in Into to Econ and Maths. Both were soo easy! I expected that of Maths but I expected the Intro test to at least be similar to the optional homework quizzes (which require that I concentrate in order to get right). But it was a good deal easier. I and some other people were finished after thirty minutes (of a ninety minute exam), but I diligently went back through each question! When I was finished, the hall was probably less than a third full.

andrew · 21-11-2014 2:16pm

Frustrated Fresher wrote: »

I thought this thread had died and gone to Boards heaven. I'm delighted that someone actually agrees with me! I didn't know about the Nobel Popular Information. Thanks for heads up because they seem pretty good. By "Varian", do you mean the textbook Intermediate Economics? I know that's the prescribed text for next year, but is it known for being especially good?

I gather Econ Pol when Ronan Lyons takes over in the second semester starts to diverge more from Intro to Econ. So the perfect solution under the circumstances is to allow TSM economists to take a Broad Curriculum module in Michaelmas and then the second semester of Econ Pol when it doesn't merely cover everything in Intro to Econ...but slower.

Several people on the thread have said something along the lines of, "this is third level, you should be motivating yourself, etc." And I accept that that is true. But it's very difficult to motivate yourself to study material that's not directed by your lectures in some way. It's easy to say I should read ahead. But read what in particular?! There's so much! Unless I feel there's going to be some direct benefit to my studies, how can it be expected that I would study Varian in my spare time?

We just had our midterms in Into to Econ and Maths. Both were soo easy! I expected that of Maths but I expected the Intro test to at least be similar to the optional homework quizzes (which require that I concentrate in order to get right). But it was a good deal easier. I and some other people were finished after thirty minutes (of a ninety minute exam), but I diligently went back through each question! When I was finished, the hall was probably less than a third full.

If you'd like more challenging maths, then start going through "Fundamental Methods of Mathematical Economics" by Chiang and Wainwright. That single book features all the Maths you'll need for your entire undergrad, may as well get cracking now.

Bears and Vodka · 22-11-2014 2:35am

Frustrated Fresher wrote: »

We just had our midterms in Into to Econ and Maths. Both were soo easy! I expected that of Maths but I expected the Intro test to at least be similar to the optional homework quizzes (which require that I concentrate in order to get right). But it was a good deal easier. I and some other people were finished after thirty minutes (of a ninety minute exam), but I diligently went back through each question! When I was finished, the hall was probably less than a third full.

We have said time and time again that first year Econ is geared towards BESS, where over half the people have zero interest or aptitude in Econ. You will be surprised when you see how many people will fail Intro to Econ in the summer. SF Econ will be a far cry from LC style "Show the point where marginal utility begins to diminish".

If you really want to study ahead, I can email you SF Econ lecture slides, so you know which topics to pursue in Varian, and likewise in maths/stats.

In general, in the future it would be nice to know the following things:

- Hypothesis testing (you will be doing this in Stats next semester). You will probably just cover z-tests and maaybe t-tests. You will need to know F-tests and Chi-Squared distribution later so get started on that.

- Regression Analysis. Econometrics is gonna be a huge part of what you encounter in economics later on (in terms of study and reading papers etc), so introduce yourself to OLS, simple linear regression model, multiple regression model.

- The Chaing & Wainwright book as someone said above. Also some Linear Algebra would be good. For that all you really need is the Anton & Rorres book. Hamilton has tons of copies.

- Find a more advanced Macroeconomics book than Mankiw (one that actually has formulas in it), and acquaint yourself with IS-LM, AS-AD, Solow models, 'laws', rules and curves of all sorts.

That should keep you busy for a while anyway.

But to be honest, I don't really see your predicament. You find your undergrad easy. Great! Get a 1.1 degree here and move on to bigger and better things.

Frustrated Fresher · 22-11-2014 1:33pm

@andrew: thanks for the recommendation. I see that that is used all the way up to Quant Methods.

@Bears and Vodka: sincere thanks for such a detailed list of forthcoming topics. Could I be cheeky and ask for advice on schol exams? Which paper would you (and others) recommend not sitting (and why)? Any tips?! Schols is famed for difficulty and required application, etc, yet the papers seem to be fairly repetitive - for example 2014's Paper II repeats three questions (almost verbatim) from 2012's. Is getting schols really as difficult as everyone says? I'm not questioning whether it requires work. But if someone with a decent apptiude applies themselves well over the first semester and xmas, do they not stand a good chance of getting it (assuming, of course, no constraints on permitted number awarded).

Athos902 · 22-11-2014 6:12pm

First year economics can be pretty tiresome. I think I got a grade in the high 90s on the EC1010 midterm having barely kept up with the module. I'm not trying to brag; you'll notice a significant drop in lecture attendance after the results come out, suggesting others feel the same way.

If you have the ability, you really could be doing a lot of independent work. Just going to college and getting your degree isn't enough in these days. You need to distinguish yourself as an exceptional student, if you have the ability. You can get relatively cheap subscriptions to The Economist and the Financial Times as a student, it's a good idea to apply you're economic theory to the world around you and attempt to critique the columnists' analysis. Reading academic journals is tedious, in my opinion, there are certainly a few classic articles that are worth reading (e.g the market for lemons paper) but I generally skim them. I like reading "pop econ" books too: The Undercover Economist is a fantastic series, Capital in the 21st Century is a tome but seems to already be considered a classic by many, Donal O'Donovan has a fantastic book on the collapse of the Celtic Tiger, and I suppose I can't mention pop econ without mentioning Freakonomics.

Doing Schols is a great idea. As far as I am aware there are two economics papers and you must do both as an TSM student. The first paper is based on EC2010 and the questions are pretty similar to what you will find on your finals paper though the standard expected is much higher. I think the two Varian books, Intermediate Microeconomics and the more technical Microeconomic Analysis really contain all the material you need. I personally found Richard Somerville's notes for his third year micro course EC3010 (easy to find on the google machine) to be invaluable if you are thinking of anwsering the General Equilibrium question.

The second economics paper is based on Economy of Ireland and Economics of Public Policy. I think only TSM Maths and erasmus students do Economics of Public Policy, so you probably won't have to worry about it. If you do choose to do it, I'd strongly advise answering any of Sean Barrett's questions on the schols paper. I wouldn't trust that man to tie his own shoes, let alone correct my schols paper. John O'Hagan will give you the questions beforehand, but obviously expect a very high standard. The crux of the exam is writing a very good essay with a coherent arguement. Do tonnes of background reading and try to include as many insights of your own as possible. Schols isn't about regurgitating the textbook, you have to be exceptional.

That being said, if you are have as clever as you think you are (no offense) you have a really good shot. It really does just come down to how much work you do.

Frustrated Fresher · 22-11-2014 8:55pm

Athos902 wrote: »

First year economics can be pretty tiresome. I think I got a grade in the high 90s on the EC1010 midterm having barely kept up with the module. I'm not trying to brag; you'll notice a significant drop in lecture attendance after the results come out, suggesting others feel the same way.

If you have the ability, you really could be doing a lot of independent work. Just going to college and getting your degree isn't enough in these days. You need to distinguish yourself as an exceptional student, if you have the ability. You can get relatively cheap subscriptions to The Economist and the Financial Times as a student, it's a good idea to apply you're economic theory to the world around you and attempt to critique the columnists' analysis. Reading academic journals is tedious, in my opinion, there are certainly a few classic articles that are worth reading (e.g the market for lemons paper) but I generally skim them. I like reading "pop econ" books too: The Undercover Economist is a fantastic series, Capital in the 21st Century is a tome but seems to already be considered a classic by many, Donal O'Donovan has a fantastic book on the collapse of the Celtic Tiger, and I suppose I can't mention pop econ without mentioning Freakonomics.

Doing Schols is a great idea. As far as I am aware there are two economics papers and you must do both as an TSM student. The first paper is based on EC2010 and the questions are pretty similar to what you will find on your finals paper though the standard expected is much higher. I think the two Varian books, Intermediate Microeconomics and the more technical Microeconomic Analysis really contain all the material you need. I personally found Richard Somerville's notes for his third year micro course EC3010 (easy to find on the google machine) to be invaluable if you are thinking of anwsering the General Equilibrium question.

The second economics paper is based on Economy of Ireland and Economics of Public Policy. I think only TSM Maths and erasmus students do Economics of Public Policy, so you probably won't have to worry about it. If you do choose to do it, I'd strongly advise answering any of Sean Barrett's questions on the schols paper. I wouldn't trust that man to tie his own shoes, let alone correct my schols paper. John O'Hagan will give you the questions beforehand, but obviously expect a very high standard. The crux of the exam is writing a very good essay with a coherent arguement. Do tonnes of background reading and try to include as many insights of your own as possible. Schols isn't about regurgitating the textbook, you have to be exceptional.

That being said, if you are have as clever as you think you are (no offense) you have a really good shot. It really does just come down to how much work you do.

Thanks to everyone who gives such long and constructive responses. I really appreciate it. I've PM-ed you, athos902 (to ask a specific thing about her/his post, not to exclude!).

In case you didn't know, TCD students can access the FT for free through a link which can be found by searching for it in the library catalogue.

I didn't realise O'Hagan gives essay titles in advance. Does he give all of them or a list from which a certain number appears?

@Bears and Vodka: you said earlier in the thread that you thought that I wouldn't like O'Hagan's style. Why is that? Also, I stalked your profile...based on your performance in them, I would really value your opinions on schols.

Bears and Vodka · 22-11-2014 10:39pm

Frustrated Fresher wrote: »

@Bears and Vodka: you said earlier in the thread that you thought that I wouldn't like O'Hagan's style. Why is that? Also, I stalked your profile...based on your performance in them, I would really value your opinions on schols.

Oh wow, I'm glad I'm worthy of your audience

Yeah, John is the kinda guy who will talk about his eventful life and his illustrious students in high places rather than teach. He kind of assumes you come to the lectures to listen to his chats, and then you go home and actually learn some economic theory. Then you are expected to produce The Economist style essays on the titles that he lists. Then you go and rote learn them by heart and a bunch of them appear in the exam which you duly write down and hope for the best.

Most people like his classes though, myself included. The rote learning essays bit not so much.

Frustrated Fresher · 22-11-2014 11:12pm

Bears and Vodka wrote: »

Oh wow, I'm glad I'm worthy of your audience

Yeah, John is the kinda guy who will talk about his eventful life and his illustrious students in high places rather than teach. He kind of assumes you come to the lectures to listen to his chats, and then you go home and actually learn some economic theory. Then you are expected to produce The Economist style essays on the titles that he lists. Then you go and rote learn them by heart and a bunch of them appear in the exam which you duly write down and hope for the best.

Most people like his classes though, myself included. The rote learning essays bit not so much.

I only said that cause it looked like - when you "thanked" Athos's post - you were going to decline my explicit invitation to opine on them!

That's old-school lecturing! I lol at the image of a time-worn Tara Mitchell treating her class to a meandering anecdote about distinguished past pupils.

Thanks

ganon · 23-11-2014 10:13am

Frustrated Fresher wrote: »

I thought this thread had died and gone to Boards heaven. I'm delighted that someone actually agrees with me! I didn't know about the Nobel Popular Information. Thanks for heads up because they seem pretty good. By "Varian", do you mean the textbook Intermediate Economics? I know that's the prescribed text for next year, but is it known for being especially good?

I gather Econ Pol when Ronan Lyons takes over in the second semester starts to diverge more from Intro to Econ. So the perfect solution under the circumstances is to allow TSM economists to take a Broad Curriculum module in Michaelmas and then the second semester of Econ Pol when it doesn't merely cover everything in Intro to Econ...but slower.

Several people on the thread have said something along the lines of, "this is third level, you should be motivating yourself, etc." And I accept that that is true. But it's very difficult to motivate yourself to study material that's not directed by your lectures in some way. It's easy to say I should read ahead. But read what in particular?! There's so much! Unless I feel there's going to be some direct benefit to my studies, how can it be expected that I would study Varian in my spare time?

We just had our midterms in Into to Econ and Maths. Both were soo easy! I expected that of Maths but I expected the Intro test to at least be similar to the optional homework quizzes (which require that I concentrate in order to get right). But it was a good deal easier. I and some other people were finished after thirty minutes (of a ninety minute exam), but I diligently went back through each question! When I was finished, the hall was probably less than a third full.

I think lots of people will tell you that you have access to a world of information, online and in the library, and so in theory you could teach yourself anything. But in reality there's probably a very small proportion of people out there that actually have that kind of motivation it takes to completely teach yourself something from scratch (as opposed to a bit of light reading in an area you like). But not being able to do that doesn't make you lazy! If you're like me then you're someone who pushes themselves into a situation where someone else will push them (if that makes sense)

Yep Varian Intermediate Economics is prescribed for 2nd year Intermediate, it's a pretty good book. You could start doing some reading around Oligopoly, Game Theory, General Equilibrium if you're interested in that, and they often come up as full questions on Paper I for schols.
Although, that said- For schols you'll have a choice (i'm fairly sure..) between Paper 1 (EC2010), Paper 2 (EC2020) and whatever the Maths/Stats one is called. Definitely do the Maths/Stats one, that's usually what brings everyone's grade up. I'd say if you like EC2020, and more importantly if you're good at essay writing and the kind of critical-thinking John O'Hagan likes, do that over EC2010.

Yeah 2nd term Intro to Econ and Econ Pol are different, Intro to Econ gets harder. I had different lectures so could be different material, but I've heard Ronan Lyons is very good.

Frustrated Fresher · 23-11-2014 2:00pm

ganon wrote: »

I think lots of people will tell you that you have access to a world of information, online and in the library, and so in theory you could teach yourself anything. But in reality there's probably a very small proportion of people out there that actually have that kind of motivation it takes to completely teach yourself something from scratch (as opposed to a bit of light reading in an area you like). But not being able to do that doesn't make you lazy! If you're like me then you're someone who pushes themselves into a situation where someone else will push them (if that makes sense)

Yep Varian Intermediate Economics is prescribed for 2nd year Intermediate, it's a pretty good book. You could start doing some reading around Oligopoly, Game Theory, General Equilibrium if you're interested in that, and they often come up as full questions on Paper I for schols.
Although, that said- For schols you'll have a choice (i'm fairly sure..) between Paper 1 (EC2010), Paper 2 (EC2020) and whatever the Maths/Stats one is called. Definitely do the Maths/Stats one, that's usually what brings everyone's grade up. I'd say if you like EC2020, and more importantly if you're good at essay writing and the kind of critical-thinking John O'Hagan likes, do that over EC2010.

Yeah 2nd term Intro to Econ and Econ Pol are different, Intro to Econ gets harder. I had different lectures so could be different material, but I've heard Ronan Lyons is very good.

Yeah, well expressed. I am able to motivate myself, but I have to feel like I can achieve something by it. And the thought of reading one of several 500+ page books on a topic without guidance doesn't make me feel like I can.

Thanks for info on schols. I'm gonna struggle in choosing between Econ I and Econ II, I think. I'm good at essay writing and enjoy macro more than micro, but can't help but feel that Econ I is purer economics and also that a period of intense and advanced (at that level) micro study would stand to me in the summer and subsequent modules.

Frustrated Fresher · 24-11-2014 6:25pm

Results from Intro to Econ midterm:

Score % Percentile (rounded)
40/40 100 98
39/40 97.5 95
38/40 95 88
37/40 92.5 77
36/40 90 68
35/40 87.5 60
34/40 85 55
33/40 82.5 47

A median score of 82.5%! I presume only a hadfull will get that in the summer.

andrew · 25-11-2014 8:29pm

Frustrated Fresher wrote: »

Results from Intro to Econ midterm:

Score % Percentile (rounded)
40/40 100 98
39/40 97.5 95
38/40 95 88
37/40 92.5 77
36/40 90 68
35/40 87.5 60
34/40 85 55
33/40 82.5 47

A median score of 82.5%! I presume only a hadfull will get that in the summer.

C'mon tell us what you got so that we can lay into you if you got anything less than 40/40

Frustrated Fresher · 25-11-2014 8:57pm

I got two wrong.

Be gentle.

andrew · 27-11-2014 10:53am

Frustrated Fresher wrote: »

I got two wrong. Be gentle.

AND AFTER ALL THE ADVICE WE'VE BEEN GIVING YOU.

I'm not mad, just dissapointed.

Frustrated Fresher · 27-11-2014 5:16pm

andrew wrote: »

AND AFTER ALL THE ADVICE WE'VE BEEN GIVING YOU.

I'm not mad, just dissapointed.

All I ever wanted to do was make you happy.

Bottleopener · 28-11-2014 12:42am

Frustrated Fresher wrote: »

Yeah, well expressed. I am able to motivate myself, but I have to feel like I can achieve something by it. And the thought of reading one of several 500+ page books on a topic without guidance doesn't make me feel like I can.

Thanks for info on schols. I'm gonna struggle in choosing between Econ I and Econ II, I think. I'm good at essay writing and enjoy macro more than micro, but can't help but feel that Econ I is purer economics and also that a period of intense and advanced (at that level) micro study would stand to me in the summer and subsequent modules.

Pick Econ 2 if you can only take one of them. And just do the Economy of Ireland questions. Best course you'll ever take taught by in my opinion the single best lecturer in the college.

Bears and Vodka · 28-11-2014 2:02am

Bottleopener wrote: »

Best course you'll ever take taught by in my opinion the single best lecturer in the college.

JO'H

Frustrated Fresher · 28-11-2014 4:20pm

Bottleopener wrote: »

Pick Econ 2 if you can only take one of them. And just do the Economy of Ireland questions. Best course you'll ever take taught by in my opinion the single best lecturer in the college.

Wow, high praise. I look forward to his lectures then. I think, though, considering that I would still be doing the module and answering on the same questions in the summer exam were I not to sit Econ II, I should decide based on in which I'm more likely to do well. And, unless I struggle with it, I suspect Econ I allows for higher scoring.

Kbeg3 · 28-11-2014 10:09pm

Frustrated Fresher wrote: »

Wow, high praise. I look forward to his lectures then. I think, though, considering that I would still be doing the module and answering on the same questions in the summer exam were I not to sit Econ II, I should decide based on in which I'm more likely to do well. And, unless I struggle with it, I suspect Econ I allows for higher scoring.

Probably quite the opposite. Econ 1 is marked pretty hardly. Last year results in Econ II would definitely have been better on average than Econ 1.

Frustrated Fresher · 29-11-2014 2:09am

Kbeg3 wrote: »

Probably quite the opposite. Econ 1 is marked pretty hardly. Last year results in Econ II would definitely have been better on average than Econ 1.

Really? I'm surprised.

ganon · 29-11-2014 2:59am

Yeah you'd think because micro is more mathematical and clear-cut there'd be more of a chance to score highly in Econ I. In reality the questions can be way too broad, like "Monopoly v Oligopoly. Go!" You've to try and cover everything, and think outside of the box as well, but the box is too big to even know what that is

With Econ II you make your own box. You literally take a question and decide exactly how you want to answer it and what you want to discuss. You need only brush over the theory and content covered in lectures, if you spend the majority of the essay coming up with an original economic argument, using your own examples, highlight an interesting insight- that's what'll get you a good mark.
I somehow managed a first in that paper with badly-written essays that had no intro/conclusion, really bad flow of argument but had 'good ideas' in the words of JO'H. He's an absolute pro at seeing through what you've written to whether you've an economic head or not.

Frustrated Fresher · 30-11-2014 1:30am

ganon wrote: »

Yeah you'd think because micro is more mathematical and clear-cut there'd be more of a chance to score highly in Econ I. In reality the questions can be way too broad, like "Monopoly v Oligopoly. Go!" You've to try and cover everything, and think outside of the box as well, but the box is too big to even know what that is

With Econ II you make your own box. You literally take a question and decide exactly how you want to answer it and what you want to discuss. You need only brush over the theory and content covered in lectures, if you spend the majority of the essay coming up with an original economic argument, using your own examples, highlight an interesting insight- that's what'll get you a good mark.
I somehow managed a first in that paper with badly-written essays that had no intro/conclusion, really bad flow of argument but had 'good ideas' in the words of JO'H. He's an absolute pro at seeing through what you've written to whether you've an economic head or not.

Very interesting. I'd love to see the results from previous years. I asked in the dept about seeing the results from summer exams but they were in no way forthcoming!

Bears and Vodka · 30-11-2014 7:03pm

Frustrated Fresher wrote: »

I asked in the dept about seeing the results from summer exams but they were in no way forthcoming!

:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

Saipanne · 30-11-2014 7:08pm

Frustrated Fresher wrote: »

I'm a fresher taking economics as part of a TSM having studied economics for leaving cert. I'm really frustrated with the content. I take three economics modules: Intro to Economics, Intro to Economic Policy and Maths and Stats. The first is a basic introduction to economics which, after four weeks, hasn't even flirted with being more advanced than lc. The second is a module which is sub-lc in terms of difficulty and which seems to duplicate much of what is in Intro to Econ. A group project where students summarise a part of the textbook and present it at their tutorial forms part of the assessment. The lecturer made a comment about how those who did economics for lc could use it as a sort of relaxing class. The third module has so far largely been merely a refresher of basic lc maths.

The department is in a tricky situation because first year economics modules are taken by BESS, PPES, MSISS, Social Studies, Sociology and Social Policy, Business and Computer Science, Business and language, Law and Business/Politics, Geog and Politics, and possibly more, so it needs to cater for a very wide range of interests and capabilities.

But I just read today that those doing European Studies can take Intermediate Economics which is the core senior freshman economics module. In other words, the dept is willing to allow them to forgo the prerequisite of Intro to Econ. I can understand that they may do that for some courses, but for one for which there is no mathematics requirement and which has nothing of a mathematical nature?!

I feel really hard done by and don't think I'm being intellectually stretched. Anyone else have opinions or are in the same boat?

Its only first year. Join a few clubs and societies. Go to parties. You will never have this time again.

Frustrated Fresher · 30-11-2014 9:11pm

Bears and Vodka wrote: »

:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

Care to explain? Are you commenting on my interest in the results or on my thinking that they would give me the results?

Saipanne wrote: »

Its only first year. Join a few clubs and societies. Go to parties. You will never have this time again.

I have done those, and am particularly active in one society. Doing those doesn't preclude me from working. The student contribution was less affordable for me than it was for others and I would therefore be somewhat dismayed if first year is the "party year".

Saipanne · 30-11-2014 9:14pm

Frustrated Fresher wrote: »

Care to explain? Are you commenting on my interest in the results or on my thinking that they would give me the results?

I have done those, and am particularly active in one society. Doing those doesn't preclude me from working. The student contribution was less affordable for me than it was for others and I would therefore be somewhat dismayed if first year is the "party year".

Just try to have fun, is my point. University isn't just books and grades. Its a unique experience. Don't miss it.

Frustrated Fresher · 30-11-2014 10:50pm

Fair enough. It's just that I hated the lc and thought that college is when intellectual exploration begins. So bit disappointed on that front. Thanks for advice.

Saipanne · 30-11-2014 10:53pm

Frustrated Fresher wrote: »

Fair enough. It's just that I hated the lc and thought that college is when intellectual exploration begins. So bit disappointed on that front. Thanks for advice.

Oh, it is. Join the philosophy society, for example.

Unfortunately, at bachelor level, they pitch the course to the mean student. So if you are above that level, you might be bored, early on.

One piece of advice I would give. University is what YOU make of it. So if you want intellectual stimulation, go out and find it. There's plenty of it on offer at tcd.

Frustrated Fresher · 30-11-2014 11:10pm

Saipanne wrote: »

Oh, it is. Join the philosophy society, for example.

Unfortunately, at bachelor level, they pitch the course to the mean student. So if you are above that level, you might be bored, early on.

One piece of advice I would give. University is what YOU make of it. So if you want intellectual stimulation, go out and find it. There's plenty of it on offer at tcd.

I know it is, but thought it would happen from the beginning. The "is what you make of it" line has been given above. And I agree. But, I've two objections: the first, the lectures aren't even giving me a platform to work from*; so, second, I may as well not be paying to be in college and instead do it from home - I know I wouldn't, but I don't won't to pay for merely motivation.

Thanks a lot, man.

*Maths and Stats has since started introducing new stuff like partial differentiation.

Frustrated by TCD freshman economics

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