Dublin Fire Brigade losing ambulances to HSE

sjb25 · 03-03-2015 9:14am

easygoing1982 wrote: »

Does this mean DFB will go on to the HSE radio system(tetra) or will the HSE go on to the DFB radio.

I'd say could go on NAS tetra I'm not sure how it works but the tracking system goes trough tetra doesn't it?

Bang Bang · 03-03-2015 11:17am

greenmat wrote: »

You'll find out soon enough when you ring for an Ambulance in Dublin and find out it's coming from Wexford.

It would still be a faster response than the 3+ hour wait for an ambulance in Dublin recently, a call that was processed by Dublin Fire Brigade

Old diesel · 03-03-2015 12:23pm

greenmat wrote: »

You'll find out soon enough when you ring for an Ambulance in Dublin and find out it's coming from Wexford.

Id EXPECT DFB staff to behave like SENSIBLE grown up adults in that scenario - and get on with responding to calls when they are available to them.

So id expect that if DFB ambulances stay on the road with staff allocated to them - that the issue of an Ambulance coming from Wexford should not araise.

Am I expecting too much????

I don't think I am

Little CuChulainn · 03-03-2015 3:45pm

I would have thought the biggest cause of delays in ambulance response times is the amount of time they have to spend in hospitals waiting to offload their patient.

Old diesel · 03-03-2015 4:22pm

Little CuChulainn wrote: »

I would have thought the biggest cause of delays in ambulance response times is the amount of time they have to spend in hospitals waiting to offload their patient.

A good point actually - the reality is that if 4 or 5 Ambulances are parked up outside A & E - that's 4 or 5 Ambulances NOT available to respond to calls.

Its also something that NEVER gets mentioned in the context of the A & E issues.

The Ambulance service gets the criticism if there is a problem as a result - and yes it deserves criticism - but the clowns that run the hospital system at HSE Mgt level need a kick up the backside as well

timmywex · 03-03-2015 10:00pm

This is only good news for patients, they now get the nearest resource.

The nearest resource that is, regardless of HSE or DFB bias.

Also increases the amount of ambulances available in the city, alot of country ambulances up for the day (transfers etc) may now be tasked, increased number of RRV's (in addition to appliances still being used) and an increased number of AP's being dispatched as appropriate to all calls

Also DFB coming under NAS clinical governance unifies things, allows c spine rule out, cease resuscitation and a few other little bits i believe.

Cant see how this is bad, i really do hope DFB never loose ambulances, but given the umpteen number of reports about the two control situation and the craziness of it this was bound to happen

greenmat · 04-03-2015 11:26am

People in here seem to have totally forgotten the Primetime report, Best Uniforms etc. That really showed up what the service could end up like in Dublin. As for the 3 hour wait for Ambulance, as far as I Know, most of the DFB resources were tied up in hospitals and the rest were busy dealing with real emergencies. Case in question was I think a sore knee. When your stretched, you have to prioritise your calls. There has been numerous cases around Ireland of people DYING waiting for an Ambulance. I'm not slagging crews, it's the HSE Management. Just take a trip to St Mary's in the park and all will be revealed.

Old diesel · 04-03-2015 12:33pm

greenmat wrote: »

People in here seem to have totally forgotten the Primetime report, Best Uniforms etc. That really showed up what the service could end up like in Dublin. As for the 3 hour wait for Ambulance, as far as I Know, most of the DFB resources were tied up in hospitals and the rest were busy dealing with real emergencies. Case in question was I think a sore knee. When your stretched, you have to prioritise your calls. There has been numerous cases around Ireland of people DYING waiting for an Ambulance. I'm not slagging crews, it's the HSE Management. Just take a trip to St Mary's in the park and all will be revealed.

My interpretation of the comments in here in the past 2/3 days - is that whats happening now is that HSE are taking over the dispatch of DFB Ambulances - rather then the HSE providing ALL the Ambulances in Dublin.

So youd still have DFB ambulances - and crews going to 999 calls BUT - they would simply be dispatched by HSE control room.

Am I wrong in thinking that.

Regarding the DFB model generally - people assume you need it - to have a functioning Ambulance service in Dublin.

The problem isn't the "model" - its the HSE clowns in charge of the Ambulance Service that's the issue.

How would the models compare if the stand alone Ambo model was taken out of HSE hands altogether - have the National Ambulance service as a completely separate organisation of its own SEPARATE from HSE - with a PROPER budget, GOOD management that know how to run an Ambulance Service PROPERLY - and properly resource it.

How does Ambo staffing in Dublin on an average day under DFB model compare with Cork or Limerick under HSE?????

What would happen if you came along and said right - DFB loses 12 Ambulances - BUT HSE gains 12 extra Ambulances - and the funding to properly crew them.

Number of Ambulances remain the same.....

Yes the fire tenders are used for initial response under current DFB model - which is fine.

But what would happen if you had doctors responding like you do in West and East Cork - I do happen to think those doctors should be paid by HSE or the state for responding - but just thinking of the actual model of the pre hospital doctor.

The DFB model does work well - but should a Paramedic or Advanced Paramedic actually need to be able to do something else to be a VALUED asset.

I think the Paramedic and Advanced Paramedic roles are valuable roles in their own right - and expecting that you need to do another role as well - devalues the role of Paramedic and Advanced Paramedic.

sjb25 · 04-03-2015 2:03pm

greenmat wrote: »

People in here seem to have totally forgotten the Primetime report, Best Uniforms etc. That really showed up what the service could end up like in Dublin. As for the 3 hour wait for Ambulance, as far as I Know, most of the DFB resources were tied up in hospitals and the rest were busy dealing with real emergencies. Case in question was I think a sore knee. When your stretched, you have to prioritise your calls. There has been numerous cases around Ireland of people DYING waiting for an Ambulance. I'm not slagging crews, it's the HSE Management. Just take a trip to St Mary's in the park and all will be revealed.

You seem to have forgot the HIQA report which specifically said the two control rooms doesn't work and needed to be sorted now it's sorted nobody wants ambulance removed from DFB great paramedics and advanced paramedics and they will STILL be there all that is happening is they will be dispatched from the NAS control room that's the only change and it's a good idea all resources weather it be DFB or NAS dispatched from one central location

You are saying that 3 hr wait was because DFB were all tied up either at hospital or at REAL emergencies the same can be said down the country when people have to wait all resources can be tied up but u seem to be saying that's ok if it's DFB but not ok if it's NAS

It's never ok for anybody to wait 3 hrs no matter what is wrong! There needs to be more paramedics more ambulance on the road

palmtrees · 04-03-2015 2:45pm

sjb25 wrote: »

You seem to have forgot the HIQA report which specifically said the two control rooms doesn't work

sjb25 wrote: »

u seem to be saying that's ok if it's DFB but not ok if it's NAS

This is true for so many of the comments that I've read on this topic lately!

greenmat · 04-03-2015 2:53pm

My last post on this, maybe I'm just totally burnt with the Ambulance, I feel there is very little we (NAS and DFB) can do to change a ****ed up system we work in. I see this going 1 way. NAS takes control of DFB's Ambo, DFB loses the Ambulance Service in Dublin completely in approx 2-3 years time, then savage cuts and even privatisation of the Fire Service and the Ambulance Service.

NonBeliever14 · 24-03-2015 8:54am

irl. eu-supply.com/app/rfq/publicpurchase.asp?PID=86717&HL=0&PS=1&PP=transactions.asp

www. mytenders.ie/search/show/search_view.aspx?ID=FEB424518

200 new vehicles planned in advance?

New hub station for Dublin?

Big investment for a service they are apparently going to privatise.............

Old diesel · 24-03-2015 1:06pm

At 200 vehicles im assuming these are NORMAL fleet replacements NEEDED NOW.

And possibly not reflective of how policy will be 3 years down the road.

I recall that Tony O Brien answered a question on this EXACT DFB ambulance issue - by amongst other things - pointing out that he was appointed as the last HSE boss - "im winding the HSE up" is what I recall him saying.

Yet weve heard nothing more about that particular James Reilly idea (winding down the HSE)

A new hub station could subsequently be sold on to a private operator if they were taking over the Dublin Ambulances services......

NonBeliever14 · 24-03-2015 1:47pm

Old Diesel, the HSE has never committed to buying a fixed number of vehicles over a multi year period. Regardless of future policy or indeed the existance of the HSE, any contract entered into will have to be honoured (transfer of liaibilities)

The HSE is destined for abolotion, NAS is not. The HSE is destined to be replaced by the Healthcare Commissioning Agency (HCA) whom will "buy" services from Hospital Groups, Community Health Organisations, probably the NAS and possibly TULSA. Take a look at the Trust Development Authority and the Clinical Commissioning Groups in the UK to get some insight where this might be going. Their new Five Year Forward View Plan for the NHS is interesting.

Suggesting the HSE would build a new main hub station for Dublin and then sell it off to privatisation is like suggesting DCC would build a new Fire Station in Dolphins Barn and do the same........really??? on what basis?

To date, neither the DoH or the HSE or the NAS have entertained any privatisation proposals. What is your logic for suggesting otherwise?

Old diesel · 24-03-2015 1:57pm

NonBeliever14 wrote: »

Old Diesel, the HSE has never committed to buying a fixed number of vehicles over a multi year period. Regardless of future policy or indeed the existance of the HSE, any contract entered into will have to be honoured (transfer of liaibilities)

The HSE is destined for abolotion, NAS is not. The HSE is destined to be replaced by the Healthcare Commissioning Agency (HCA) whom will "buy" services from Hospital Groups, Community Health Organisations, probably the NAS and possibly TULSA. Take a look at the Trust Development Authority and the Clinical Commissioning Groups in the UK to get some insight where this might be going. Their new Five Year Forward View Plan for the NHS is interesting.

Suggesting the HSE would build a new main hub station for Dublin and then sell it off to privatisation is like suggesting DCC would build a new Fire Station in Dolphins Barn and do the same........really??? on what basis?

To date, neither the DoH or the HSE or the NAS have entertained any privatisation proposals. What is your logic for suggesting otherwise?

To clarify - I don't actually expect that the ambulance service will go down privatisation road.

My point was intended to be - that decisions taken today - don't guarantee that you won't go down a different road at a different date.

The guy building the new station today doesn't expect it to be privatised - otherwise he would be VERY unlikely to build it.

But someone else may take a different view at a later date

Apologies

Dublin Fire Brigade losing ambulances to HSE

Comments