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Getting Navan on the Passenger network - by end 2010

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  • 28-07-2010 10:28am
    #1
    Propellerhead
    Closed Accounts Posts: 394 ✭✭


    So many excuses and yet so little substance to them.

    Freight Line.
    Semaphore signalling.
    Lack of capacity at Connolly.

    Here's a very modest proposal that will cost very little and add value to the rail network.

    Construct a platform at Drogheda at the end of the Navan Branch that allows cross platform connections with Dublin and Belfast trains.

    Navan shuttle trains then don't have to go on the main line. A two car DMU can connect mornings and evenings.

    Simple, but guaranteed in classic Irish fashion to be shot down.


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    #2
    Judgement Day
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,549 ✭✭✭✭Judgement Day


    flying-pig.jpg

    Don't worry it won't happen - too obvious and cheap. Anyway all the spotters will soon be on here telling you why there's not enough capacity on the Northern line - points for trying though! :D


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    #3
    highlydebased
    Registered Users Posts: 7,466 ✭✭✭highlydebased


    A good idea propellerhead, however Irish Rail seem to think the only place people change trains is Limerick Junction!! (untrue of course)

    When did they say semaphore signalling was the problem..? Maybe that explains their want to close Limk Jctn-Waterford and Rosslare-Waterford then!


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    #4
    Bluetonic
    Registered Users Posts: 7,588 ✭✭✭Bluetonic


    Judgement Day wrote: »
    flying-pig.jpg

    Don't worry it won't happen - too obvious and cheap. Anyway all the spotters will soon be on here telling you why there's not enough capacity on the Northern line - points for trying though! :D
    Also I'm sure people in Skerries, Rush & Lusk and Donabate will love not being able to get on the train in the morning.


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    #5
    Judgement Day
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,549 ✭✭✭✭Judgement Day


    Bluetonic wrote: »
    Also I'm sure people in Skerries, Rush & Lusk and Donabate will love not being able to get on the train in the morning.

    I thought they all took the bus now since the Malahide Viaduct collapse? :D


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    #6
    dcr22B
    Registered Users Posts: 2,528 ✭✭✭dcr22B


    Judgement Day wrote: »
    I thought they all took the bus now since the Malahide Viaduct collapse? :D
    I do, I get a seat at the last stop inbound in Lusk and it's just as quick as the train (and always on time).

    Feck the train! :D


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    #7
    KC61
    Registered Users Posts: 4,316 ✭✭✭KC61


    Propellerhead wrote: »
    So many excuses and yet so little substance to them.

    Freight Line.
    Semaphore signalling.
    Lack of capacity at Connolly.

    Here's a very modest proposal that will cost very little and add value to the rail network.

    Construct a platform at Drogheda at the end of the Navan Branch that allows cross platform connections with Dublin and Belfast trains.

    Navan shuttle trains then don't have to go on the main line. A two car DMU can connect mornings and evenings.

    Simple, but guaranteed in classic Irish fashion to be shot down.

    Add to those issues - traincrew operated level crossings.


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    #8
    invinciblePRSTV
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,017 ✭✭✭invinciblePRSTV


    What would the journey times be like for Navan - Drogheda - Dublin by train, and how would they compare to journey times by Bus or Car?


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    #9
    KC61
    Registered Users Posts: 4,316 ✭✭✭KC61


    Morning rush hour Bus Eireann 109 is scheduled to take 1 hour 5 minutes from Navan to Busaras.

    Train would take:
    1 hour Drogheda/Tara Street (assuming using existing commuter services as per above)
    Appx 25 minutes Navan/Drogheda

    The enterprise is scheduled to take 42 minutes from Drogheda to Dublin, but none arrive before 0900.


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    #10
    markpb
    Registered Users Posts: 9,250 ✭✭✭markpb


    KC61 wrote: »
    Morning rush hour Bus Eireann 109 is scheduled to take 1 hour 5 minutes from Navan to Busaras.

    Train would take:
    1 hour Drogheda/Tara Street (assuming using existing commuter services as per above)
    Appx 25 minutes Navan/Drogheda

    Even if a train service was provided that was 10-15 minutes slower than the bus, some people would change from the bus or car to the train - it's just human nature (and evidenced by the numbers who returned to the Northern line after it re-opened). The question is would enough people change to an indirect service to make it viable (and would it be possible to provide that service on the already congested northern line and into Connolly).


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    #11
    loyatemu
    Registered Users Posts: 14,743 ✭✭✭✭loyatemu


    http://www.railusers.ie/campaigns/navan/navan_drogheda.php


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    #12
    DWCommuter
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,032 ✭✭✭DWCommuter


    loyatemu wrote: »
    http://www.railusers.ie/campaigns/navan/navan_drogheda.php

    I personally presented this report to IE. While they did quote a rediculously over the top upgrading cost compared to the RUI figure, they didn't question the timetable. The official response from IE to this report was as follows;
    The reopening of the railway between Clonsilla and Navan has recently received Government approval under the Transport 21 investment programme 2005 - 2015. In these circumstances the Department of Transport will not countenance such a spend on the line between Navan and Drogheda.


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    #13
    D.L.R.
    Registered Users Posts: 1,283 ✭✭✭D.L.R.


    Propellerhead wrote: »
    So many excuses and yet so little substance to them.

    Freight Line.
    Semaphore signalling.
    Lack of capacity at Connolly.

    Here's a very modest proposal that will cost very little and add value to the rail network.

    Construct a platform at Drogheda at the end of the Navan Branch that allows cross platform connections with Dublin and Belfast trains.

    Navan shuttle trains then don't have to go on the main line. A two car DMU can connect mornings and evenings.

    Simple, but guaranteed in classic Irish fashion to be shot down.

    Shure we can't be spendin money on simple innovations to help the ordinary people now, we need every penny we can scrape together to pay off the state's institutionalised gambling debts!


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    #14
    dowlingm
    Registered Users Posts: 5,309 ✭✭✭dowlingm


    "Construct a platform at the end of the Navan Branch".

    Where?

    The Navan branch is to the left. The visible trackage has, I believe, a bridge under it. From what I recall of previous discussions, building a platform on a bridge structure is a no-no.

    Of course, the "Rails to Navan" report might specify this, but it's in the super-sekrit members area and I'm too cheap to subscribe membership while I'm not living in the country :D


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    #15
    Transportuser09
    Registered Users Posts: 581 ✭✭✭Transportuser09


    It seems to be something of a double-edged sword. At a guess a relay of the existing Navan line would be no more complicated than the work done between Athenry and Ennis. Though perhaps by going through Pace more population is served. The track capacity issue is probably most critical between Drogheda and Connolly; unlike the Cork line the geography of the line doesn't lend itself as easily to quadrupling. Add to it Midland line traisn could run to Docklands. And as someone else pointed out most of the Drogheda trains could be full early on. So while the GNR route looks cheaper and quicker, logistically it comes across as more difficult...


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    #16
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    dowlingm wrote: »
    From what I recall of previous discussions, building a platform on a bridge structure is a no-no.
    They did it in Drumcondra, its platform spans bridges over St. Joseph's Avenue and St. Patrick's Road.


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    #17
    lord lucan
    Registered Users Posts: 9,575 ✭✭✭lord lucan


    Karsini wrote: »
    They did it in Drumcondra, its platform spans bridges over St. Joseph's Avenue and St. Patrick's Road.

    Tara St. is technically built on a bridge too. The layout at Drogheda on the Navan branch looks reasonably easy to manipulate to allow a platform in. They could build around Drogheda South cabin and push the running line nearest it back a bit(there's room iirc).


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    #18
    Judgement Day
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,549 ✭✭✭✭Judgement Day


    Charlemont Luas Stop on the Green Line is also on a bridge. If there was a will a way would be found but we are talking CIE/IE here, Noel Dempsey and an utterly useless collection of mandarins in Kildare Street. Apart from anything else that fool from Bord Snip will probably recommend the selling off of Drogheda for property development. :rolleyes:


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    #19
    Transportuser09
    Registered Users Posts: 581 ✭✭✭Transportuser09


    lord lucan wrote: »
    Tara St. is technically built on a bridge too. The layout at Drogheda on the Navan branch looks reasonably easy to manipulate to allow a platform in. They could build around Drogheda South cabin and push the running line nearest it back a bit(there's room iirc).

    Landsdowne Road is partly over a bridge as well, Grand Canal Street too I think. I'm nearly certain of seeing a picture of a platform in the UK which is partly over a viaduct!


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    #20
    lord lucan
    Registered Users Posts: 9,575 ✭✭✭lord lucan


    Transportuser09 wrote: »
    Landsdowne Road is partly over a bridge as well, Grand Canal Street too I think. I'm nearly certain of seeing a picture of a platform in the UK which is partly over a viaduct!

    Sure look at Leixlip Confey. It's up platform was built on a thin wedge between the Canal and Rails. It started to collapse a few years ago,sinking precariously at one end. Drogheda would have more room than that so it's very feasible.

    I'd forgotten about Landsdowne road,it's built partly over the river Dodder.


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    #21
    steamengine
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,372 ✭✭✭steamengine


    A section of the main platforms at Connolly is supported by the bridge on Sheriff St and AFAIK the rest of the main platform and the other platforms are supported on an arched structure. The 'Vaults' bar is apparently located underneath the main platform, but can only be accessed from the IFSC. Some of these arches can still be seen near the old 'Dart' entrance on Amiens Street.


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    #22
    Stroke Politics
    Registered Users Posts: 570 ✭✭✭Stroke Politics


    If you want to take a train, drive to Drogheda.

    A rail link to Navan is a pipe-dream, always will be, as long as the town has it's development lead by developers alone. This was always going to be the case, and there is no chance whatsoever of commuter line transport from Navan on the Northern, or any other line, as line as the M€ is a tolled motorway with losses underwritten by taxpayer guarantee. I hate to tell ye, but I told ye so already!

    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055330014&highlight=cannistown&page=7


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    #23
    Victor
    Registered Users Posts: 78,246 ✭✭✭✭Victor


    Better view here: http://eiretrains.com/Photo_Gallery/D/Drogheda/slides/Drogheda%20railway%20station%20%2817%29.html

    http://maps.osi.ie/publicviewer/#V1,709970,774821,7

    You would be able to fit a short platform between the signal cabin(?) and the bridge. Sure, if you want a longer platform it becomes more complicated, but not impossible.


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    #24
    dowlingm
    Registered Users Posts: 5,309 ✭✭✭dowlingm


    I stand corrected on the bridge issue. I didn't know they had done it in Drumcondra and GCD, whereas Tara St and Lansdowne could be assumed to be grandfathered.

    I think we'd have to assume the platform would need to be capable of taking 6 x 29K at least, if not 8, in order to justify taking a morning commuter slot. Could be a tricky thing getting it that long without curvature issues or expropriating some adjoining properties. Selective Door Opening, if fitted, could allow the other stops to be on shorter platforms but demand from Drogheda south...

    It's unfortunate that dispatching a train from Drogheda Traincare to Navan would be very tricky - perhaps the current Navan track connection could be converted to a parallel track a few hundred metres towards Dublin so that only one reversal would be required, and that off the mainline. Wouldn't do anything about conflicts but it would be something.


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    #25
    OurLadyofKnock
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 558 ✭✭✭OurLadyofKnock


    Victor wrote: »
    Better view here: http://eiretrains.com/Photo_Gallery/D/Drogheda/slides/Drogheda%20railway%20station%20%2817%29.html

    More than enugh room there for platforms, shelters, footbridges and disabled access. It almost looks as it the original layout was designed with such an idea in mind for the future.

    Was there ever passenger services on this line?


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    #26
    Judgement Day
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,549 ✭✭✭✭Judgement Day


    OurLadyofKnock wrote: »
    More than enugh room there for platforms, shelters, footbridges and disabled access. It almost looks as it the original layout was designed with such an idea in mind for the future.

    Was there ever passenger services on this line?

    Of course there was, it was part of the Great Northern Railway which ran as far as Oldcastle - opened 1850 and closed to passengers in 1958.


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    #27
    OurLadyofKnock
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 558 ✭✭✭OurLadyofKnock


    Judgement Day wrote: »
    Of course there was, it was part of the Great Northern Railway which ran as far as Oldcastle - opened 1850 and closed to passengers in 1958.


    How did these trains serve Drogheda?


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    #28
    T Corolla
    Closed Accounts Posts: 611 ✭✭✭T Corolla


    I not familar with the line but from the picture the junction is after the station. Was it ever used as a passenger service in the past. I know it is reasonably straight line.


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    #29
    Judgement Day
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,549 ✭✭✭✭Judgement Day


    OurLadyofKnock wrote: »
    How did these trains serve Drogheda?

    Not sure but perhaps some sort of reversal was involved or perhaps there was a bay behind the down platform. The present signal box is not on the site of an earlier one - Drogheda South was on the Up side south of the station - and the space where the present cabin is could have been where the bay was. :confused:


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    #30
    Stonewolf
    Registered Users Posts: 1,132 ✭✭✭Stonewolf


    OurLadyofKnock wrote: »
    How did these trains serve Drogheda?

    Maybe (C)IE deliberately destroyed a platform?

    Actually, it looks like there was never any provision there ...
    http://www.louthnewryarchives.ie/graphics/exhib/gnr/indexgnr40mm21.jpg


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    #31
    Eiretrains
    Registered Users Posts: 268 ✭✭Eiretrains


    I think the passenger service was always worked as a branch from Drogheda to Oldcastle and nothing more. Trains had to reverse in and out of Drogheda station to access the branch. In later years this wasn't much of a problem as a GNR railbus (road bus converted to rail operation) was employed on the branch service which could do it in a reasonable time unlike an ordinary train.


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