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Marrying a Christian

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    #32
    Peregrinus
    Registered Users Posts: 26,123 ✭✭✭✭Peregrinus


    recedite wrote: »
    Unless the OP was offered St Peters Basilica that should beat it :pac:

    Cost is going to be a factor though. AFAIK there have been changes recently to the rules, such that you don't have to go to registry office at all.
    You can hire a "solemniser" (which in practice is probably going to be a Humanist) to go out to the venue and perform the actual marriage vows there. Any permanent building which is normally open to the public is allowed.
    Two glosses on that: First, the building can't be a church or religious building. Even if the church authorities are happy to have it used for civil ceremonies, the state won't allow it. Secondly, as of now it has to be a building; you can't have a civil ceremony in a park, garden, beach, forest or other open-air location. There is pressure to change this.


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    #33
    lazygal
    Registered Users Posts: 12,644 ✭✭✭✭lazygal


    Peregrinus wrote: »
    Two glosses on that: First, the building can't be a church or religious building. Even if the church authorities are happy to have it used for civil ceremonies, the state won't allow it. Secondly, as of now it has to be a building; you can't have a civil ceremony in a park, garden, beach, forest or other open-air location. There is pressure to change this.

    Humanist ceremonies are secular not civil, so the religious rules of civil ceremonies don't apply.


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    #34
    Peregrinus
    Registered Users Posts: 26,123 ✭✭✭✭Peregrinus


    lazygal wrote: »
    Humanist ceremonies are secular not civil, so the religious rules of civil ceremonies don't apply.
    Actually, they can be both. Irish legislation now allows for officers of the HAI to be registered as civil celebrants, able to conduct legally-effective wedding ceremonies. If you get married in one of these ceremonies, you don't have to do it again at the registry office; you're good. But, if you have one of these ceremonies, you do have to comply with the rules for civil ceremonies - held in a place normally open to the public, not a church, etc.

    On the other hand you can have a non-legal ceremony of your own devising wherever you like, conducted how you like, plus (for the legal end) a registry office marriage. And the Humanists will be happy to support you in conducting a non-legal ceremony too, if you want them to; they were in the business of doing so well before they could do legally-effective wedding ceremonies. And if you're having that kind of Humanist ceremony, then the civil ceremony restrictions do not apply.


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    #35
    lazygal
    Registered Users Posts: 12,644 ✭✭✭✭lazygal


    Humanist weddings are classed as secular when you register intent to marry. Hse celebrants perform civil, not secular, ceremonies. Secular and civil ceremonies are different and have different rules. No religious elements at all allowed in civil ceremonies, humanist secular ceremonies are more flexible.


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    #36
    Peregrinus
    Registered Users Posts: 26,123 ✭✭✭✭Peregrinus


    lazygal wrote: »
    Humanist weddings are classed as secular when you register intent to marry. Hse celebrants perform civil, not secular, ceremonies. Secular and civil ceremonies are different and have different rules. No religious elements at all allowed in civil ceremonies, humanist secular ceremonies are more flexible.
    My mistake. I've checked the Civil Registration Act and the correct position is largely as you say. The "no church buildings, no religious music" rule only applies to marriages conducted by the HSE registrar. It does not apply to marriages conducted by humanist solemnisers.

    But the "must be celebrated in a place open to the public" rule applies to all marriages - religious, humanist, HSE. And the last I heard was that, so far as the registrar general was concerned, this meant "not outdoors". But this slightly confused report in the Examiner suggests that this position either has changed or will shortly change, and that outdoor weddings will be fine provided they are in a place open to the public and not, e.g., in your back garden.


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    #37
    rainbow kirby
    Moderators, Regional Abroad Moderators Posts: 26,928 Mod ✭✭✭✭rainbow kirby


    lazygal wrote: »
    Humanist weddings are classed as secular when you register intent to marry. Hse celebrants perform civil, not secular, ceremonies. Secular and civil ceremonies are different and have different rules. No religious elements at all allowed in civil ceremonies, humanist secular ceremonies are more flexible.

    Funnily enough, for postal notification (couple living outside Ireland but marrying in Ireland) - the form has still not yet been updated to include an option for a secular ceremony. We were told by the registrar in Limerick to just write it in on the form when we called to check...


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    #38
    lazygal
    Registered Users Posts: 12,644 ✭✭✭✭lazygal


    Peregrinus wrote: »
    My mistake. I've checked the Civil Registration Act and the correct position is largely as you say. The "no church buildings, no religious music" rule only applies to marriages conducted by the HSE registrar. It does not apply to marriages conducted by humanist solemnisers.

    But the "must be celebrated in a place open to the public" rule applies to all marriages - religious, humanist, HSE. And the last I heard was that, so far as the registrar general was concerned, this meant "not outdoors". But this slightly confused report in the Examiner suggests that this position either has changed or will shortly change, and that outdoor weddings will be fine provided they are in a place open to the public and not, e.g., in your back garden.

    I'm always confused by the 'open to the public' rules. I read about a couple of Irish 'celebrity' weddings in churches where security closed the church doors after the arrival of the bride and didn't allow any uninvited guests in. Is that. strictly speaking, 'open to the public'? Friends of ours weren't allowed to ask an uninvited guest to leave their civil ceremony or prevent anyone else from entering when having a hotel ceremony. A guest in the hotel fancied a gawk at their ceremony and there was nothing they could do. I also attended a ceremony at a venue where the ceremony was impossible to get to if you were in a wheelchair as there were steep stairs and no lift. I wonder how strenuously the 'access by the public' rule is applied.


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    #39
    Peregrinus
    Registered Users Posts: 26,123 ✭✭✭✭Peregrinus


    Weddings are in principle public events; that's the whole point. Back in the day, English marriage law required a couple to be married in a church with the doors open. Same thinking is what's behind requirements for the publication of banns, etc. In a church wedding, it's completely accepted that anyone can wander in to admire the bride in her finery, and no objection is (or can be) taken. A couple getting married is not their business; it's everybody's business.

    I'm puzzled, too, by the celebrities who get to celebrate their weddings in heavily-guarded private locations, sharing the event only with 700 of their most intimate friends and the photographer from Hello. I mean, I can see the practical need, but how are they getting around the "place open to the public" requirement? I don't know.


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    #40
    recedite
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,993 ✭✭✭✭recedite


    I suppose a place can be normally open to the public, but it can just happen to be fully booked. The same could happen if you went to the cinema on the first night of a popular movie. It's still "open to the public" but you can't get in.


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