Do you visit gravestones?

TeddyTedson · 16-07-2014 5:55pm #1

Just wondering if many people who would be atheist or agnostic would take the time to visit loved ones gravestones?
It's something that triggered in my mind recently after passing a grave yard that a friend was buried in five years ago. I've never once been back there since the funeral but even just passing it made me start to think of him. I think I'll try to visit the gravestone soon and although I won't be praying or have a belief that his spirit lives on I think it would be sort of comforting. I can't remember the last time I visited any gravestones and it probably would have been with my parents so many years ago visiting the graves of grandparents.
Or maybe it's not a good idea to re-mourn so to speak for people.

Sulla Felix · 16-07-2014 5:58pm

I find the whole thing ghoulish. I go with the rest of the family to the blessing of the graves every year for my mothers sake, it serves as a memorial for her because it's usually a week or so after his anniversary.
Trying to start a family tradition around the time of his birthday instead and rather than visiting the grave we all light a chinese lantern. Thinking maybe balloons this year instead.

Edit: Speaking about my Dad here obv. The circumstances of his death were... a little more onerous than usual so basically I'd like to remember him, rather than the manner of his dying which is obv intrinsically linked with that particular date.

eviltwin · 16-07-2014 6:04pm

No, my dad died 8 yrs ago and I haven't been to his grave in years, I get nothing from it and feel no connection to him there. I live near a graveyard and weekends and special occasions its packed, christmas day in particular, I've even seen bridal parties in it. It's ghoulish as Sulla says but if people get comfort from it thats fair enough, I just wonder does it help the grieving process or keep you stuck.

smacl · 16-07-2014 6:23pm

Any deaths in recent years have been cremations, with ashes scattered hither and yon. Myself and the rest of the family often seem to be poking around in old graveyards on holidays, brother in-law is an archaeologist, which can be quite thought provoking. Always liked this one;

NSAman · 16-07-2014 6:28pm

Every week without fail, I head up to see my dad and chat. The graveyard where he is buried is always packed with people no matter what time of the day you visit.

For me it is not Ghoulish at all. I clean his headstone, tidy the flowers and make it look well. It is a massive comfort to me.

banie01 · 16-07-2014 6:48pm

I lost my wife @7yrs ago and I don't visit the grave all that often.
I don't need a headstone to spark a memory our remind me of the loss, I live with it.
My son and I visit when he wants too, on his schedule not because we think her spirit or any other part of her dwells there....
But rather we and our family use more as a"garden of rememberance"
My Mother in Law has appropriated the grave to be her shrine in any case and to be honest if I visited it anymore than I do that would piss me off even more than it already does(it's as if our son and I didn't lose much compared to her)

Graves tend to reinforce the loss and loneliness that accompanies death...
I try and remember how lucky we were to have had the time we did and share the memories of the happy times rather than dwell on the pain of the hoped for future we lost.

Czarcasm · 16-07-2014 6:50pm

Sulla Felix wrote: »

Trying to start a family tradition around the time of his birthday instead and rather than visiting the grave we all light a chinese lantern. Thinking maybe balloons this year instead.

Sulla that's actually a really good idea if you don't mind my saying. I think we should actually celebrate a person's life, and just for me personally, the whole Irish "wake" thing just never resonated with me personally.

Edit: Speaking about my Dad here obv. The circumstances of his death were... a little more onerous than usual so basically I'd like to remember him, rather than the manner of his dying which is obv intrinsically linked with that particular date.

That too is how I prefer to remember people, remember them when they were alive, rather than how they died. I can only remember a handful of peaceful deaths among family and friends, the majority have died from terminal illnesses or heart attacks, RTA and suicides, and I find the manner in which they died bore no reflection on the way they lived. I find rituals such as funerals and in particular Irish Catholic funerals are particularly morbid affairs, when they should be a celebration of the person.

One thing that always stuck with me was when we were at a cousins wedding, and my brother commented that we all only ever meet up for weddings and funerals. The next time the family were all together was his funeral.

eviltwin wrote: »

No, my dad died 8 yrs ago and I haven't been to his grave in years, I get nothing from it and feel no connection to him there. I live near a graveyard and weekends and special occasions its packed, christmas day in particular, I've even seen bridal parties in it. It's ghoulish as Sulla says but if people get comfort from it thats fair enough, I just wonder does it help the grieving process or keep you stuck.

Bridal parties in a graveyard isn't quite what I had in mind when I say we should celebrate people's lives, but to each their own and all that! For some people I think the rituals give them closure, and a comfort in being able to visit the grave of the person and feel connected to them somewhat. I think for some people it does keep them 'stuck', that they find it difficult even years later to accept that the person is no longer with them.

For me personally, I just feel like I'm looking at a fancy headstone, I just can't bring myself to talk to it as if it represents the person as I remember them. I get the symbolism and what it means to other people, but I can't, and wont, pretend to feel something I don't, as to me that would be the ultimate in disrespectful behavior and I feel it would tarnish the memory of the person as I remember them.

Guill · 16-07-2014 8:17pm

I see graveyards as strange places.
A field full of tiny gardens dedicated to the dead, when you look at it like that it's a nice idea, however, the reality can be very different. A lot of drab cold stone in unkempt lots and in Ireland when it's normally wet and dreary the place can look horribly grey and lifeless.

It reminds me of crosses on the roads where people have died, the permanent ones, not the recent accident ones. I can't for the life of me understand why people erect these monuments to a place where someone lost their life,why not somewhere that person has lived their life to the fullest? Each to their own I suppose

A friend died and his ashes were scattered across his favorite surfing spot and his childhood holiday resort that he loved so much. He wasn't spiritual and neither am I but it's great to have our last farewell to him forever associated with his life.

Azwaldo55 · 16-07-2014 10:28pm

Of course not.
Graveyards are ridiculous places.
The person is dead and gone.
Bodies should be burned or turned into dog food or if the relatives want to they can eat the corpse if that is their thing.
When you are dead your body is just waste and can be thrown away.
Visiting a grave makes as much sense as visiting a place where you had a wee or a pooh.
Minute silences for the dead make no sense either.
A minute silence for what?

Obliq · 16-07-2014 10:53pm

I haven't visited the graveyard where my friend and neighbour was buried since the day his body was interred there, but I pass his house every day and think of him. Never a day goes by when I don't pass somewhere that we went together (he was elderly, and I brought him to get his paper, pension, shopping, doctor, etc.). I don't need to visit the grave because I remember him every day.

Any close relative who has died was cremated, and their ashes scattered at a place special to our family - I don't visit much as it's the other side of the country, but I've brought my children there and talked to them about it. Also, I have a photo of that site on my fridge, rather than photos of the people who died. It brings them all to mind all the time...

recedite · 16-07-2014 11:34pm

If you used to call round to the person's house on their birthday, or otherwise make contact, I think its good to continue that once a year if next of kin are still living there. Catch up with people, and celebrate the life of the deceased rather than the death.

I don't like modern cemeteries at all, but I like poking around very old ones. Reading the headstones, seeing the wild plants, and nature generally, thriving among the headstones.

In a lot of the modern cemeteries they spray weedkiller over the entire area like napalm twice a year. Tough luck on anyone planting flowers around their relatives grave.

Geomy · 17-07-2014 12:12am

recedite wrote: »

If you used to call round to the person's house on their birthday, or otherwise make contact, I think its good to continue that once a year if next of kin are still living there. Catch up with people, and celebrate the life of the deceased rather than the death.

I don't like modern cemeteries at all, but I like poking around very old ones. Reading the headstones, seeing the wild plants, and nature generally, thriving among the headstones.

In a lot of the modern cemeteries they spray weedkiller over the entire area like napalm twice a year. Tough luck on anyone planting flowers around their relatives grave.

There's some good grave yards around the Burren in Clare, in some of the crypts you can actually see the skeletal remains of the dead.

Freaky

smacl · 17-07-2014 7:44am

Geomy wrote: »

There's some good grave yards around the Burren in Clare, in some of the crypts you can actually see the skeletal remains of the dead.

Freaky

Some quite nice portal and wedge tombs too. Who wants a head stone when you can have a tomb with a view?

TwoShedsJackson · 17-07-2014 10:17am

Azwaldo55 wrote: »

Bodies should be burned or turned into dog food or if the relatives want to they can eat the corpse if that is their thing.

Wat?

Dades · 17-07-2014 10:28am

Azwaldo55 wrote: »

Bodies should be burned or turned into dog food or if the relatives want to they can eat the corpse if that is their thing.
When you are dead your body is just waste and can be thrown away.
Visiting a grave makes as much sense as visiting a place where you had a wee or a pooh.

I know you're trying really hard to be controversial, but give it a rest. You don't have to make a stand against everything because after a while it stops being any way interesting and starts being trolling.

Nugawn · 17-07-2014 11:07am

My father died a little more than three years ago and I miss him terribly. I still visit the place where his ashes are buried two or three times a year. I don't live close by and getting there is a little bit of a pilgrimage through his life. I never imagined that this would be important to me and like many here believed that I would remember him in having a pint or cooking dinner (he was a great cook) or just in quiet moments. But having a place that is his, unshared, on a hillside overlooking the sea which he loved has become special.

Bogdanistan · 17-07-2014 11:16am

Very interesting thread.

I like graveyards, for me, they are very peaceful places. The dead cause no bother, it's the living that cause all the bother in this world.

I like visiting relatives and friends graves, I remember the love and the good times we shared, and what I learned from them, and that, at times, I miss them. I enjoy keeping their graves tidy and looked after, as a memorial to them.

I like taking a walk around the rest of graveyard and reading the names, and their ages, it's a great reminder that life in this world really is so short, that we can be gone at any age, and to make the most of every single day. I find it healthy to be reminded of my mortality. The favourite inscription I came across was :

What you are, I once was, what I am, you will be

I always leave a graveyard, thankful for whatever life I have left, and feeling re-inspired to do something I was putting off to another day.

Vojera · 17-07-2014 11:30am

I don't visit my dad's grave unless I'm asked to give a family member a lift there. In fairness, I live four hours away from it, but when I'm home it would never occur to me to take a spin up there.

When I was younger and the loss was newer I used to take a wander up there every so often, but it wasn't to specifically visit the grave. Our graveyard is a little bit out of the town and really peaceful and has a lovely view, so it's a nice place to sit and think. I didn't consider it any different to the other walks I used to take up the hills and among the local farms.

One reason I don't visit it now that it holds nothing for me. There's nothing there of my dad and at this stage he's well returned to the ecosystem.

Another reason is that for a few years after he died, my mam had to visit the grave every. single. day. If she missed a day she would freak out. At first I could understand, but as time went on it really felt to me like she was living in her grief rather than living in the present. Thankfully that is no longer the case, but it has put me off graves in general a fair bit.

Geomy · 17-07-2014 1:30pm

smacl wrote: »

Some quite nice portal and wedge tombs too. Who wants a head stone when you can have a tomb with a view?

Where is that wedge tomb ?

TwoShedsJackson · 17-07-2014 2:10pm

Headstones, schmedstones, I'm going for something like Steve Stavro's memorial:

smacl · 17-07-2014 2:28pm

Geomy wrote: »

Where is that wedge tomb ?

NW of Ballycroum in Corbehagh (R 515 937)

Geomy · 17-07-2014 3:08pm

smacl wrote: »

NW of Ballycroum in Corbehagh (R 515 937)

Thanks :-)

Sadderday · 17-07-2014 3:30pm

My mum lost her mum last year.

Instead of trying to make her way to the graveyard as often as she would like to, she picked a particular plant and put it in her back garden.

At the same time every year it will flower, she calls it her angel plot.

People just have their own way of doing things i guess.

Sadderday · 17-07-2014 3:31pm

.........

sorry also to mention, it seems like graveyards have become dangerous places... I've heard off alot of muggings in recent years... Might be best not to go alone.

nozzferrahhtoo · 17-07-2014 4:07pm

One of the most cherished loves of my life died when we were both 16 and I never went to her funeral or ever went to her grave. In fact if I were to choose to go there today, I would genuinely need help to even find where it is.

That said I can see the appeal from my unbiased outside in perspective that makes me understand why people do go to visit them, even when being an atheist who thinks it is all just a dumping site for dead DNA, and without it being "ghoulish" or "ridiculous" at all.

Human memory is often built on association. A simple smell can sometimes spark off a sequence of forgotten memories. A location can do this too. For me my lost love and my memories of her can be sparked by the music of Van Morrison and, strangely enough, the smell of Vanilla.

Human memory is also hard to maintain. One of the most insidious aspects of human loss is that often we struggle to even remember their faces. I have seen this simple fact send people into ructions of grief and pain.

One thing grave visiting does do.... though you can do this in a multitude of other ways.... is starts you building up an association. A memory pointer to a data set in computer speak, which allows you to reference and access memories you might not otherwise be able to.

You sit at this grave shortly after the death, and then continue to do so, and engage in remembering the same things over and over again. The result is that BEING in that location then allows you to do this. I have met people who can not remember their loved ones face, but bring them to the grave side and they tell you "Its as clear as if it was yesterday".

Coupled with the fact that, mugging aside, grave yards are pretty ideal as a place of quiet contemplation and solitude anyway at the best of times..... I can genuinely see the appeal and the motivation. Even if I do not share it myself.

Brian Shanahan · 17-07-2014 4:25pm

TeddyTedson wrote: »

Just wondering if many people who would be atheist or agnostic would take the time to visit loved ones gravestones?

I do with my mother, both for family graves and because she likes going into graveyards she passes just to look at the older ones (seeing how names change over the years, and how different families come and go is pretty fascinating).

For the family ones we have a mutually satisfactory arrangement. She stands respectfully, prays silently and remembers the good times when visiting. I do the same apart from the praying. We have a good cry from time to time, because a) missing people you loved and loved you back is hard, and b) some of our relatives had very hard lives and remembering that hardship can be upsetting.

I still do that thing of not walking on people's graves. I now consider it being respectful to their memories and families, now that I'm of the opinion that souls don't exist.

lynski · 17-07-2014 11:14pm

This is interesting. I was at a funeral today for the father of a
Dear old friend. In the graveyard is the burial place of my uncles ashes along with two of his sons and I wanted to go ' pay my respects' and I thought about it and the rational side of me took over and said to my 'traditional' side to cop on and if I really wanted to remember my beloved cousin and his brother and dad I should go have a cuppa with his mom. Doing that tomorrow.
My kids are fascinated by graveyards and insist on going to granddad grave whenever we are near, a few times a year. I think my daughter thought he had moved underground and that was where he lived now. She knows a bit more now.

Kidchameleon · 21-07-2014 8:36am

Personally no I don't visit grave yards.

TommieBoy · 22-08-2014 6:12am

I don't know my ancestors. I barely knew my parents. I won't have any offspring. I am, in essence, the last leaf at the end of a tree branch - it can feel somewhat untethered out there on your own. I haven't any idea where anyone is buried, nor where/whom I came from (not in any real sense anyway). It's my main bucket-list item to visit my ancestors resting place and provide a stone saying they lived. I don't know why but it seems important - perhaps simply to say thank you and well-done for a life lived.

Would I re-visit their gravesite, if I could? Possibly... for comfort and some sense of connection - perhaps. I can envision a scenario wherein sitting in a peaceful spot, talking over some of life's heartaches and joys with someone (a sense of someone anyway) who has lived it all before and to whom I (sort-of) belong (in a familial way) could be soothing.

Do I believe their souls live there? I hope not, but it may be a given place on earth; where once they pass, may occasionally abide - if and when we need them, with no intrusion on our lives (especially for those of us with no way of going home). Then again, I know so little of how life and death works, who knows.

Chattastrophe! · 22-08-2014 7:38am

I'm lucky in that, at the age of 28, I haven't yet had anyone very close to me die.

The only time I visit a gravestone is the once/twice a year that I visit my elderly uncles, down the country. They always want to bring me to the grave where my grandparents are buried (I never met my grandfather, never really knew my grandmother.) We stand by the grave, they bow their heads and look solemn, I bow my head and look solemn (I think I'm meant to be saying a prayer in my head.) Then, when they bless themselves, I do too - am I a hypocrite for doing so? Yes, maybe! But it's only because, well they're little old men, and from an extremely religious family. It would hurt and worry them so much to know that I'm an atheist. I only see them a couple of times a year. I'm not arsed getting into those discussions with them. So yeah, I touch my forehead, tummy and then each shoulder (I think that's how you do it?) It's a meaningless movement to me, it means a lot to them that I do it. If they asked me directly, I certainly wouldn't lie about my feelings about religion. But sometimes blissful ignorance is best ... so I let them think what they want to think!

It's maybe a cliche, but I've always liked this poem:

Do not stand at my grave and weep
I am not there. I do not sleep.
I am a thousand winds that blow.
I am the diamond glints on snow.
I am the sunlight on ripened grain.
I am the gentle autumn rain.
When you awaken in the morning’s hush
I am the swift uplifting rush
Of quiet birds in circled flight.
I am the soft stars that shine at night.
Do not stand at my grave and cry;
I am not there. I did not die.

I don't think I'd ever associate a grave with a person. In fact, I'd hate to. I'd rather go to somewhere I remembered, somewhere the person loved. And think of them there. Not some meaningless patch of earth where the person had never even been to or thought of in life.

People die, and I do believe that once we're gone, we're gone forever. I don't believe in any afterlife.

But memories can exist for a very long time.

Piliger · 23-08-2014 5:47pm

People grieve in different ways, often over a long period of time. Some of us never come to terms with a death and some of us deal with fairly quickly. Even we ourselves find it very difficult to know what stage we are at.
Visiting a grave is a perfectly rational thing to do for an Atheist. It is simply a special place where we can focus on the person and our memories.
One question people should ask themselves, imho, is do they even bother to pause and think of a person long after they are gone. If they don't then they can't have cared much about them when they were alive.
I rarely visit graves but I take some time-outs many times a year and think back to people who were important to me and that I cared about. I remember how they were, what it was like when they were here, and what they meant to me when they were here. That way they never die. I hope that I will mean something like that to at least one person after I am gone.

COYVB · 23-08-2014 5:51pm

I haven't been to a graveyard in a long, long time. But I'd have no problem visiting one as an atheist. They're permanent memorials for people who have died, and I see nothing wrong with that

Pwindedd · 23-08-2014 9:23pm

I don't really know anyone who was buried to be honest. My dad died when I was tiny, he was cremated in Uk and I've only been to the garden of remembrance once. I don't remember him so it felt a bit weird to be there if I'm honest. Glad I went though.

I quite like the idea of life gems, a small token or talisman if you like that I could wear to stay connected. Would be awful if you lost the damn thing though. I quite fancy being a teaching skeleton, hanging around in some lab or classroom for a while. I don't want to be buried I know that much.

bnt · 24-08-2014 10:26am

You don't need a reason for a casual visit to a cemetery. I do it while travelling, don't even think about until a question like this. On my last visit to London, for example, I had a wander through the Brompton Cemetery. I didn't go looking for celebrity graves, the only one I can recall seeing was that of John Wisden, the founder of Wisden's Cricketer's Almanack.

Highgate Cemetery is even funkier, but is so famous that they now charge for access. :mad:

SpaceTime · 01-09-2014 7:46am

Guill wrote: »

I see graveyards as strange places.
A field full of tiny gardens dedicated to the dead, when you look at it like that it's a nice idea, however, the reality can be very different. A lot of drab cold stone in unkempt lots and in Ireland when it's normally wet and dreary the place can look horribly grey and lifeless.

It reminds me of crosses on the roads where people have died, the permanent ones, not the recent accident ones. I can't for the life of me understand why people erect these monuments to a place where someone lost their life,why not somewhere that person has lived their life to the fullest? Each to their own I suppose

A friend died and his ashes were scattered across his favorite surfing spot and his childhood holiday resort that he loved so much. He wasn't spiritual and neither am I but it's great to have our last farewell to him forever associated with his life.

I've actually seen crosses on the road in locations where they might even cause another accident or make one far worse should someone hit it. The last thing you need is a big lump of carved stone. A better monument would be a crash barrier!

Do you visit gravestones?

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