Can you afford to take a job?

borderlinemeath wrote: »

The system is flawed beyond belief, I lost my job in December and am currently on JB of €188. I have looked for jobs in my field and they are few and far between and about 25% less than the salary I was on.

I have also set myself a time frame of maximum a year to find the right job or start my own business. I don't feel guilty for taking the JB as I paid enough tax in the past 19 years but when it comes to being assessed I know I won't be eligible for much based on my circumstances.

I have applied for about 15 jobs, had 2 interviews with no success. To be honest, like the OP I have begun to enjoy the time off, spending more time with my family. I am looking at doing a night course, have lost weight, walk frequently, no longer suffer from work related stress or the frequent insomnia that used to plague me. I don't feel guilty about getting money from the state but feel strangely guilty about enjoying my life outside the rat race.

There is a fine line for families between living to work and working to live, on the flip side the many many benefits enjoyed by the unemployed have been exploited by a certain sector of society. The OP doesn't fall into this category but some of the posts have tried to categories him as such.

You can see where I am coming from. Thanks for the comment. I do feel guilty as well about being happier and healthier since I lost my lob in a strange kind of way. That does contribute to me not jumping at the job unless there is going to be an increase in my familys standard of living. Just being honest.

dubal wrote: »

The other reality about high salaries, is that people in jobs accumulate increases over time to earn way above the going rate for the market.

So the market rate for your job could me much lower than €100k

Dubal

That is true. I have factored in a 25% drop so far (up to 35% drop even tbh). 50% is a bit much but I could even live with that if I was going to be better off.

Balagan wrote: »

[/B]

In answer to your question, there is nothing wrong with accepting jobseekers while seeking a job. There is a problem with accepting it when you have found a job and not taken it.

Unavailable for work

You can be regarded as not being available for work and not entitled to Jobseeker's Benefit, if you put unreasonable restrictions on the following:

* The nature of the employment
* The hours of work
* Rate of pay
* The duration of the employment
* The location of the employment.

In any case where a Deciding Officer is of the opinion that you have placed unreasonable restrictions, you will be interviewed and given the opportunity to respond.

http://www.welfare.ie/syndicatedcontent/en/social-welfare-payments/unemployed-people/unemployment_benefit/

I did not do any of the above. I have realistic expectations that are shared by employment agency's and HR professionals.

I see what you mean above but for a lot of management jobs they state a criteria including education and experience etc. They will state a competitive salary based on experience. They offered me the highest that they had in their budget for a manager. That information was not available until offer stage in this case. What was I supposed to do? Take whatever is offered? Its considered poor tactics to ask about the salary straight away. As I have said I am not talking about the amount I was offered. Thats what that employer was able to pay.

My point is that in Ireland you are as well off on the dole as in a 50k job if you are married with 2 children if both spouses are not working. Now I am in a position that I should in the end get more then this but I despair for this country when that is the entry point that it is worth peoples while to work. Most non professionals and a lot of professionals would be happy to get this amount. Both partners now have to work and if you have children and especially a child with special needs then I can understand it must be very difficult for people. The idea of my post was to raise this issue with people. The more people know the better chance of demanding change.

I will not be on the dole long term no matter what the circumstances and I am not avoiding work. Just highlighting the plight of the working poor. I never knew it was this hard on working people until I lost my job and I began to see the amount of entitlements people get on JS vs people on the minimum wage or lower paid workers. Hence the title of the post. Can you afford to take a job?

Another aspect of this is housing. To get rent allowance I was put on the housing list. They told me that it could take 3 to 5 years to get a house in my area. I won't avail of this but if I was to choose the permanent dole route I would probably be in a better position to get a house(sooner). I can see it now. I become one of the working poor while ghost estates with houses that I would not be able to afford are given out for free.

Its just not fair on average worker in Ireland. This discussion was never intended to be a discussion about staying on the dole and avoiding work. I broke it down because 50k is not a bad wage and I was surprised when I totaled up my current income from the state vs that salary how it all played out. No wonder we are in the situation we are in.

Focal wrote: »

How could you turn down an income of 50K. We are family of 4 and only earn around 26K a year. Our outgoings are huge. My partner works long hours for bad money.

I really hope welfares rates will be reduced cause making people LAZY and expecting tax payers to pay for them.

I think its awful people who work are less well off than LAYABOUTS on welfare.

I am far from lazy. I appreciate that it is a little insensitive in the current climate to people who are working hard for less to state that I turned down a 50k job. I never realised how close to poverty working people in Ireland are until I was let go. Who knows what the future will bring for us all.

I have never been out of work in my life until now. If you read my post you would see that. I will be working soon hopefully and will be paying plenty of tax (as I always have). I paid about 40k in tax in 2010 alone. I am from a working class background and did all of my 10 years of studying at night whilst working full time and I paid for all of it myself. Hardly the actions of a lazy person.

My point was never about how much people get paid in work but the standard of living for working people like your family in Ireland. I agree that you and your family should be better off then people who are not working. That was my point in the first place. I also agree that some people take advantage of the system as you say. No wonder they do when things are as I have laid out.

I don't agree that people should take any job just because they where offered it on the basis that others are worse off. Do people and their skills and experience not have any value any more? Should everyone be paid the same in all jobs? They tried that in Russia and look how that went.

People who work should be better off then people who don't work.

I have been reflecting on this and it seems to me that the problem is also the solution in a way. Everyone needs to earn less to bring down the cost of living but none of us want to be the ones to earn less.

The next job I am offered I will take to do my part even if I have to take a hit. Middle and higher earners along with social welfare recipients, vested interests in the public and private sector all need to take a hit to reduce the cost of living. The government needs to get their house in order from a value for money and waste perspective and quickly.

The standard of living is not fair but we are probably in a period of correction all round in the economy. Wages will have to come in line with Europe if we are to receive funding from the EU/IMF. They are not going to fund us when our professionals and SW recipients are paid twice as much as theirs. I just hope that this government takes on the vested interests in Ireland and bring about fairness from a standard of living perspective for the working family.

Interview tomorrow. Fingers crossed. This discussion has been a humbling one in some ways for me. I was a little bitter having lost my job after all my effort but its time to get back on the horse and do my bit for Ireland like I always have. I will try and get better employment whilst already working.

Thanks to everyone who contributed to this discussion for their feedback, support and criticism.

dabestman1 wrote: »

anyone sense the problem is not the basic rate of social welfare but the extras such as R.allowance, medical cards, etc. How are these going to be tackled? Btw, the OP is committing social welfare fraud by refusing a job.

I have not and never will commit fraud :mad: . Qualifications and experience have a value. I am at second stage on another interview that if I get it will contribute a lot more to Ireland as (Like I always have).

When you take a job you are making a commitment to an employer, especially as a manager. You cant just take a job for a few weeks while looking for something else. That is dishonest and will damage your own reputation as well as the company that you went to work for. I am entitled to welfare while seeking employment due to my contribution over the past 18 years. I have never been out of work before and have only been out for a few weeks. I was highlighting how hard it is for working people as I am going to be one again soon and have seen both sides now for the first time.

Fraud :rolleyes:

common sense brigade wrote: »

50k - Nobody should get paid more than 50k a year unless they are saving lives. i cant believe you would turn down a 50k a year job to stay on benefits. another example of whats rotting about our social welfare system. If you take the job you can look around for something new and it will look better that you worked rather than claimed benefits.

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snip----

So only Doctors should earn 50k+? We in cuba now? Maybe we should get paid in vouchers. Lets forget university and starting businesses and all that lark.

My situation is a temporary situation and I will have a job soon. I turned down a 50k job for a 75k job but that does not have the same ring to it. Not nearly as interesting and makes a lot more sense if you look at it that way. My point was in the first place what about the people who can't expect to earn more? The average working person in Ireland should be better off working than on the dole.