Running late for work, boarded train without ticket, fined

bikeman1 · 26-09-2013 12:59pm

OP Get over it, pay the fine and move on. You wouldn't run in to Tesco, grab some stuff from the shelves and say, I'm in a rush and didnt have a chance to pay. But look I pay for my shopping every other day, just not today because there was some event on outside and a tesco truck was in my usual parking spot and I'm running late.

If you can't plan that the biggest outdoor event in Europe is on in your area and there might be travel delays on your usual commute, I really have to wonder ....

LXFlyer · 26-09-2013 1:00pm

Morgana1988 wrote: »

Oh my gosh how lousy, the inspectors have big bags with bundles of tickets to sell on board the train, I have purchased mine once or twice while on board. I think it all depends on which inspector you meet, some are more willing to co-operate than others.

No they don't. As I posted above there is a difference.

Ticket checkers also sell tickets, but generally operate on routes where there are stations that have no ticket selling facilities.

Revenue Protection Unit (RPU) staff do not sell tickets. Their sole function is to check tickets and issue standard fares where appropriate. They operate across the entire network.

BenShermin · 26-09-2013 1:02pm

Nice Botty wrote: »

Learn to buy a ticket or else be fined.

And will the actual fare evading scum that intimidate RPU officers up and down this country every day ever learn this lesson? No they bloody well won't:mad:!

There is absolutely no consistency whatsoever in the revenue protection service IÉ have in place. Posters have made the comparison with the UK that they have manned and unmanned stations, and you can buy tickets on board in some places and others you can not. That is correct, however what the UK has is a national rail enquiries website that lists every single UK station, what ticket buying options are available from the station and the list of train operating companies servicing the station and each of their fare policies. Here in Ireland we've had a recent case of a boards.ie poster who looked at the Irish Rail website and on it he saw that Kilcock had no ticket office or TVM, however the station actually did have one and he was fined €100 simply because IÉ couldn't be arsed updating their website information. And yet we still had people on here arguing that he should have seen the TVM in Kilcock :rolleyes:!

I've seen on many an occasion fare evaders jump barriers at Connolly, Tara and Pearse Stations and the RPU have never ever given chase. Yet the honest punter who might have forgot his annual pass and politely goes up to the RPU officer at the barrier to explain this situation gets a €100 fine, and faces stupid amounts of red tape to appeal this even though they are supposed to be a "valued" customer of the company

??

And then of course there's Broombridge!! How many people fare evade every day by just saying to the RPU; "I got on at Broombridge??":rolleyes:

Until IÉ themselves are consistent in their revenue protection procedure I'll never see a standard fare amount as large as €100 being fair. Have IÉ ever considered the loss in custom to car/bus (and subsequent loss in revenue) some of these RPU decisions make?

old hippy · 26-09-2013 1:02pm

Delighted. I've lost count of the times I've been knocked sideways by commuters rushing to get their trains. We all have to get to work, so, relax, take a deep breath and get the next one.

foggy_lad · 26-09-2013 1:09pm

old hippy wrote: »

Delighted. I've lost count of the times I've been knocked sideways by commuters rushing to get their trains. We all have to get to work, so, relax, take a deep breath and get the next one.

The next train is not for almost three hours and the only bus service between the two towns was gone at that time.

josip · 26-09-2013 1:23pm

lxflyer wrote: »

At the end of the day, it is up to every individual company (and this is not just transport) to protect its revenue stream and take whatever measures it deems fit to do so. I'm sure that your employer would not take revenue evasion particularly lightly, so why should IE?

Protecting revenue streams would also normally involve keeping existing customers happy and treating them well. "Well" is not the same as legally correct.
Or is IE's customer's base so big and captive to their service that IE have no concerns about losing a few customers by strictly applying the rules?

For me the difference in this case is that the customer can prove that she normally purchases a ticket for the service she was on. While she was dealt with correctly according to the rules she was not IMO dealt with properly as a customer by the RPO. It remains to be seen if IE will view her case differently. Rail services are usually monopolies and know that their customers have no alternative but to use their services. As a result they can take a stricter line without losing customers

Nice Botty · 26-09-2013 1:30pm

foggy_lad wrote: »

The next train is not for almost three hours and the only bus service between the two towns was gone at that time.

Even more of a motivation for this lazy lassie TO BE ON TIME !

OldNotWIse · 26-09-2013 1:34pm

How is showing them out of date (and therefore not valid) tickets going to achieve anything?

Also, I dont think you'll be meeting anyone in court.

partyatmygaff · 26-09-2013 1:42pm

lxflyer wrote: »

You seem to be ignoring the fact that they only issue it where people evaded paying the fare - it will only be issued in circumstances where the person concerned did not avail of the facilities provided to buy a ticket.

That is fare evasion - it's as simple as that.

I ignore nothing. You're missing the point. It's not about issuing fines, there's no time for an inspector to look too deeply in to things on board a train.

The problem is how it's handled afterwards. I.e. when the circumstances clearly show the person was not attempting to deprive Irish Rail of revenue.

No private company with competition to fear would fine their regular customers. There's a distinction to be made between people who pay for and use the train every day who for one reason or another don't have a ticket on them on one particular day and someone chancing their arm trying doing their best to not pay their fare. And don't tell me they don't have the time to deal with this because it doesn't take more than a minute to have a look at scans of past tickets or past receipts.

AlekSmart wrote: »

Kinda..but all we are now seeing with Irish Rail is their belated adoption of Revenue Protection and Collection principles historically practiced all over the Public Transport World.

The whole world doing something does not make it a good idea.

BuffyBot · 26-09-2013 1:43pm

Folks, keep to the topic. I've had to delete some posts: the name IE selects to call their staff is pretty irrelevant to the actual issue at hand

partyatmygaff · 26-09-2013 1:59pm

BenShermin wrote: »

I've seen on many an occasion fare evaders jump barriers at Connolly, Tara and Pearse Stations and the RPU have never ever given chase. Yet the honest punter who might have forgot his annual pass and politely goes up to the RPU officer at the barrier to explain this situation gets a €100 fine, and faces stupid amounts of red tape to appeal this even though they are supposed to be a "valued" customer of the company??

Until IÉ themselves are consistent in their revenue protection procedure I'll never see a standard fare amount as large as €100 being fair. Have IÉ ever considered the loss in custom to car/bus (and subsequent loss in revenue) some of these RPU decisions make?

The "Revenue Protection Unit" is a bit of a misnomer. Their job is not so much to protect revenue as much as it is to fine people. The actual scumbags who regularly evade fares either give fake names/addresses or intimidate the "officers" patrolling the trains so much that they don't even bother approaching them.

Then there are the many cases like this where they cling on to the promise of an easy €100 that they lose sight of the fact that fining and punishing their regular customers (who did not intend to evade their fare) might prove to have the opposite effect of protecting revenue streams.

OldNotWIse wrote: »

How is showing them out of date (and therefore not valid) tickets going to achieve anything?

Any reasonable person could add the circumstances of the day to the evidence of a long history of regularly paying their fare for the route as evidence that she did not intend to evade the fare.

But why should IE care? All they can see is a €100 fine that they've managed to legally entitle themselves to. They don't consider the fact that fining her might mean she'll swap to another form of transport and develop a hate for Irish Rail that will sour their image with everyone else.

OldNotWIse · 26-09-2013 2:03pm

partyatmygaff wrote: »

Any reasonable person could add the circumstances of the day to the evidence of a long history of regularly paying their fare for the route as evidence that she did not intend to evade the fare.

But why should IE care? All they can see is a €100 fine that they've managed to legally entitle themselves to. They don't consider the fact that fining her might mean she'll swap to another form of transport and develop a hate for Irish Rail that will sour their image with everyone else.

What other form of transport will she switch to? One that doesn't penalise you for not paying a fare? If she wants a ticket thats valid for more than one day she can buy a multitrip one. And like another poster pointed out, its not like a loyalty card system where you buy 9 tickets and get your tenth journey free.

Mousewar · 26-09-2013 2:05pm

Something like this happened to me years ago on the Dart. I had gotten into the habit of arriving late and just running onto the train without a ticket. No inspectors were ever there and I just paid in the station in town when i got off. Never once failed to pay them and they never suggested I was doing anything wrong when I gave them the money.
Then one day, a conductor comes by me on the dart and when i offer to pay him - nothing doing, He fines me. I was proper miffed as clearly I wasn't trying to dodge the fare. But what can you do? I paid the fine and got over it and don't get on without a ticket anymore. Prob the way to go here too.

partyatmygaff · 26-09-2013 2:10pm

OldNotWIse wrote: »

What other form of transport will she switch to? One that doesn't penalise you for not paying a fare? If she wants a ticket thats valid for more than one day she can buy a multitrip one. And like another poster pointed out, its not like a loyalty card system where you buy 9 tickets and get your tenth journey free.

Buses where you can pay as you get on? Or better yet buy tickets online and not have to bother with needing to go to a ticket machine (which eliminates the convenience as far as i'm concerned).

Again, you're missing the point (much like Irish Rail). Read my last post again, I didn't say having past tickets means you should be allowed to travel for free. All I said it means is that it should be evidence enough to prove you had no intention to evade the fare and that you should be allowed to just pay the fare itself and not some ridiculous fine whose purpose should be to deter and punish actual fare evaders.

OldNotWIse · 26-09-2013 2:16pm

partyatmygaff wrote: »

Buses where you can pay as you get on? Or better yet buy tickets online and not have to bother with needing to go to a ticket machine (which eliminates the convenience as far as i'm concerned).

Again, you're missing the point (much like Irish Rail). Read my last post again, I didn't say having past tickets means you should be allowed to travel for free. All I said it means is that it should be evidence enough to prove you had no intention to evade the fare and that you should be allowed to just pay the fare itself and not some ridiculous fine whose purpose should be to deter and punish actual fare evaders.

I dont really care for your linguistic gymnsatics. Fare evasion is fare evasion, whether intentional or not. They can't go making allowances for some passengers and not others, how would they even begin to set the limits? Person A has yesterdays tickets, person B has yesterdays and the day before's. Person C has last year's multitrip ticket. Come off it.

Hate to have to point this out but are we all really naive enough to think that if someone rushes onto a train and doesnt pay before, that they will pay when they get on, even if there is no inspector?

ps I'm aware that you pay for buses as you get on, but given that OP spoecified the next train wasn't due for 3 hours, its likely that a bus wasn't an option, or surely she would have taken it?

old hippy · 26-09-2013 2:18pm

foggy_lad wrote: »

The next train is not for almost three hours and the only bus service between the two towns was gone at that time.

Gosh, that's terrible public transport there

ok, not so delighted then - with the service - but you still shouldn't dodge fares.

OldNotWIse · 26-09-2013 2:41pm

Actually...sorry, having sh1t day. I'd be p1ssed if it happened to me too I guess.

Judgement Day · 26-09-2013 4:13pm

It's not that long ago when trains could be 8-10 bogies long and yet the guard/checker was capable of noting who was getting on and get to them to check/sell them a ticket. Now with pissy little railcars it's impossible. BR operated 'Pay Trains' for years where the guard dealt with the ticket sales. They even were able to pick people up from unmanned stations where the train had to be hailed by holding out your like at a bus stop. Could it be done here - yes - but not by moronic Irish Rail. On the Rosslare line, former stations like Avoca, Woodenbridge etc. could be reopened for a pittance as unmanned halts but when I queried Dick Fearn about it I got the standard bs about new platforms, lifts etc.etc. Sorry for going off topic but fines etc. are just a symptom of the contempt in which CIE/IE hold the traveling public and of the 'can't do' malaise that infects the company from top to bottom.

gordongekko · 26-09-2013 4:56pm

How do IE chase you down. Is it not a bit like getting caught in a pub after hours. A lot of fake details get handed out and in the end IE end up with nothing?

monument · 26-09-2013 5:00pm

Going nowhere but off topic too much.

Running late for work, boarded train without ticket, fined

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