Bus Eireann - Dublin to Derry

Tazz T · 03-03-2011 10:25am #1

What is the rationale behind the changes to the 33/274 route Dublin - Derry? The service has be slashed from 11 buses a day to just 5 for all of March and half of April. I regularly get the 3.45 from Dublin and it's always close to capacity. Last time it was completely full and didn't even stop at Dublin airport and it's been scrapped. There's only the 2pm and 6pm from the the 1.45, 3.45, 5.45 and 7. 45.

And there's no pee stop at Monaghan anymore. Regardless of what the new timetable says, cutting out the ten minute stop at Monaghan doesn't make it 3 and a half, it still averages 4 hours.

I'm dreading the battle for seats today.

munchkin_utd · 03-03-2011 11:44am

the changes are strange, but is it all THAT bad ?

- Theres a number of Monaghan only busses still going (which caters for that section of commuters).
- The 32 to Leterkenny serves all stops beyond Monaghan to Strabane still as before, so to Strabane you still have over a dozen options.
- On top of this theres still 5 Derry busses during the day
So as long as Derry passengers are given preference on the (few) Derry buses they are grand. Just like already happens on the Donegal bus, where Cavan passengers can only use it if theres a seat left after long distance passengers are looked after.

That said, it is all a little strange, and its completely not in the normal pattern of Irish public transport planning that they have such definite time windows so far in advance.
i.e. on April 17th the timetable increases to 10 busses a day, incl 2 sub 3hour expresses, but again, only till October 29th!
After which, something else will happen!

The only possible explaination must be that theres something going on with the bus licencing and/ or the cooperation agreement with translink.

doopa · 31-03-2011 10:44pm

Just wondering if anyone tried contacting Bus Eireann or Translink? I mailed them ages ago but haven't heard anything back.

doopa · 06-05-2011 8:10pm

Update on this, the new express service is about 8euro more return - but on the plus side it does now have wifi -win.

foggy_lad · 06-05-2011 10:59pm

doopa wrote: »

Update on this, the new express service is about 8euro more return - but on the plus side it does now have wifi -win.

Has anyone been on this new improved serrvice? Can it really do Derry-Dublin/Dub-Derry in under 3 hours?

when the X20 service was launched Bus Eireann made similar claims about journey times but the reality was often much longer than the advertised times, even the stretch from Athlone to Dublin was taking well over the advertised and timetabled 100minutes.

dobsdave · 07-05-2011 5:33pm

foggy_lad wrote: »

Has anyone been on this new improved serrvice? Can it really do Derry-Dublin/Dub-Derry in under 3 hours?

when the X20 service was launched Bus Eireann made similar claims about journey times but the reality was often much longer than the advertised times, even the stretch from Athlone to Dublin was taking well over the advertised and timetabled 100minutes.

It takes the 3 hours, and the buses are nice, wifi and toilets on board.
The translink buses are still the same great quality;)

seanmacc · 07-05-2011 11:29pm

I found the quickest, most cost effective way to get from Dublin to Derry was to get the Train from Connolly to Belfast (Booking online you can get it for 18euro last year) and get the bus from Europa 10 min walk from the Train Station (Bus cost 7GBP from the ticket office). I found the direct bus from Dublin a painful 4 hours. The bus and train combination works out quicker sometimes (depending on bus waiting times)

foggy_lad · 07-05-2011 11:42pm

seanmacc wrote: »

I found the quickest, most cost effective way to get from Dublin to Derry was to get the Train from Connolly to Belfast (Booking online you can get it for 18euro last year) and get the bus from Europa 10 min walk from the Train Station (Bus cost 7GBP from the ticket office). I found the direct bus from Dublin a painful 4 hours. The bus and train combination works out quicker sometimes (depending on bus waiting times)

I find the train to Belfast very uncomfortable quite slow and not a bit pleasant unless you are travelling in 1st class ad prefer to get the bus.

slinky2000 · 08-05-2011 11:18pm

foggy_lad wrote: »

I find the train to Belfast very uncomfortable quite slow and not a bit pleasant unless you are travelling in 1st class ad prefer to get the bus.

You find the enterprise slow and uncomfortable? Do you travel public transport much? It's 100x times more comfortable than any bus, has a bar, hot food and trolley service etc. They're isn't much more it can provide. It's also as fast as any other train service in Ireland.

markpb · 09-05-2011 12:14am

slinky2000 wrote: »

You find the enterprise slow and uncomfortable? Do you travel public transport much? It's 100x times more comfortable than any bus, has a bar, hot food and trolley service etc. They're isn't much more it can provide. It's also as fast as any other train service in Ireland.

Every time I take the bus to Belfast, it's faster than the train. The Enterprise might be comfortable (in so far as any train is slightly more comfortable than a bus) but it's slower and has a far less flexible timetable.

doopa · 09-05-2011 11:32am

I was on it on Friday and it got there in just over 3hours. The driver was a maniac though.

Tazz T · 10-05-2011 2:40pm

3 and half hours when I did it at the weekend. It can't be done in 2 hrs 50min, so they shouldn't advertise it. What's more, the wifi cut out when you cross the border.

Worst of all, I thought it was really dodgy you don't get told about the 8 euro extra until you get on the bus and have to pay for the extra. I won't be using it again.

foggy_lad · 10-05-2011 2:42pm

Tazz T wrote: »

3 and half hours when I did it at the weekend. It can't be done in 2 hrs 50min, so they shouldn't advertise it. What's more, the wifi cut out when you cross the border.

Worst of all, I thought it was really dodgy you don't get told about the 8 euro extra until you get on the bus and have to pay for the extra. I won't be using it again.

€8 extra? for what??

doopa · 10-05-2011 4:17pm

Tazz T wrote: »

3 and half hours when I did it at the weekend. It can't be done in 2 hrs 50min, so they shouldn't advertise it. What's more, the wifi cut out when you cross the border.

Worst of all, I thought it was really dodgy you don't get told about the 8 euro extra until you get on the bus and have to pay for the extra. I won't be using it again.

Funny - I was told 5 euro extra.

I assume the extra money is for the increased insurance for the speed the bus is going!

foggy_lad · 10-05-2011 4:29pm

doopa wrote: »

Funny - I was told 5 euro extra.

I assume the extra money is for the increased insurance for the speed the bus is going!

Oh have they increased the fares on the route? i thought they had to get approval for such increases?

doopa · 10-05-2011 4:34pm

foggy_lad wrote: »

Oh have they increased the fares on the route? i thought they had to get approval for such increases?

Fares are up. Though I can't find any information about that on their site. No indication that the express costs more from the timetable at any rate.

What makes you think they need approval? Link? Would like to follow this up.

foggy_lad · 10-05-2011 5:01pm

doopa wrote: »

Fares are up. Though I can't find any information about that on their site. No indication that the express costs more from the timetable at any rate.

What makes you think they need approval? Link? Would like to follow this up.

I thought fare increases on subsidised transport as provided by Dublin Bus Irish Rail and Bus Eireann had to be approved by the minister for transport or at least the department of transport? maybe someone more knowledgeable on this can correct me if i am wrong.

foggy_lad · 11-05-2011 12:38pm

Bus Eireann have included some information about the "extra" €8 being asked of passengers on their new additions to the 33timetable to Derry. They are calling them "Premium Fares"! I have a screenshot but can't upload it till later but these premium fares apply to the 33X services.

Will free travel pass holders have to pay this extra charge for the express busses I wonder? Should they not have a completely separate timetable for this premium service? Maybe they are going to sort out their free travel pass problem by making all services premium and excluding those with free travel?

I sent them an email asking for a list of all fares for the 33 and X33 services but have no response so far, no surprise there. I rang Monaghan bus station but they don't know the fares Dublin-Derry.

Edit, just off the phone to Busáras and the plot has taken an unusual twist. The two express coaches are operated exclusively and privately by Bernard Kavanagh and are allowed to use Busáras and they accept standard bus Eireann tickets but only with their own surcharge of €5 (some passengers claim to have been charged €8) each way. There was no information on whether free travel pass holders would have to pay this surcharge/premium fare.

Surely Bus Eireann should advertise this as a separate service instead of letting people think it is a bus Eireann service until they are on board and asked for more money?

schemingbohemia · 11-05-2011 4:58pm

foggy_lad wrote: »

I thought fare increases on subsidised transport as provided by Dublin Bus Irish Rail and Bus Eireann had to be approved by the minister for transport or at least the department of transport? maybe someone more knowledgeable on this can correct me if i am wrong.

what makes you think inter-city services are subsidised?

doopa · 11-05-2011 5:35pm

Whilst it doesn't explicitedly state anything about subsidised intercity routes, this kind of article makes me think they are:
http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/breaking/2011/0420/breaking36.html

But also talking to drivers (from private companies looking to takeover the routes) also made me think so.

Just saying.

antoinolachtnai · 11-05-2011 6:00pm

Expressway routes are commercial routes. They are not part of any public service contract. They are licensed services under the Public Transport Regulation Act.

However, it is widely believed that they are cross-subsidised from Bus Eireann's other main commercial activity, viz., the school bus contract. The school bus contract is a contract which Bus Eireann does not have to bid for and which is 80 percent contracted out to private operators.

It is also far from clear that there is no cross-subsidisation of the Expressway routes from the public service business. The published accounts do not really make the situation clear.

There are certainly anomalies in the BE accounts. Despite a surprising increase in revenue in the Expressway business in 2009, for instance, the business moved from profitability to losses. It is hard to understand how this could have happened. See table 5 in section 3.3 of the following report. http://www.cttc.ie/uploads/MazarsReport31-03-11.pdf

penexpers · 11-05-2011 6:01pm

foggy_lad wrote: »

Surely Bus Eireann should advertise this as a separate service instead of letting people think it is a bus Eireann service until they are on board and asked for more money?

On the printed timetable it is stated that:

Note: Premium fares apply on X33 services.
Free Travel Scheme Passes are not valid on route X33.

LXFlyer · 11-05-2011 6:11pm

doopa wrote: »

Whilst it doesn't explicitedly state anything about subsidised intercity routes, this kind of article makes me think they are:
http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/breaking/2011/0420/breaking36.html

But also talking to drivers (from private companies looking to takeover the routes) also made me think so.

Just saying.

In reading reports such as that one always has to remember who commissioned it.

Personally I would take the Deloitte Report as a more independent view, commissioned as it was for the Minister.

antoinolachtnai · 11-05-2011 6:20pm

I do not think such matters were within the remit of the Deloitte report and it is silent on the matter, as far as I know.

Whether the fact that the report was commissioned by Bus Eireann's owner makes it independent is another matter.

LXFlyer · 11-05-2011 6:41pm

antoinolachtnai wrote: »

I do not think such matters were within the remit of the Deloitte report and it is silent on the matter, as far as I know.

Whether the fact that the report was commissioned by Bus Eireann's owner makes it independent is another matter.

I would hardly have ever accused Minister Dempsey as being biased towards Bus Eireann or indeed Dublin Bus. Quite the opposite.

I am merely making the point that in reading any report one should always factor in who commissioned it and why.

doopa · 11-05-2011 6:41pm

penexpers wrote: »

On the printed timetable it is stated that:

Not on the copy I have!

LXFlyer · 11-05-2011 6:54pm

Well it is now - it might have been lost in the sub-editing.

http://www.buseireann.ie/pdf/1297440887-33.pdf

foggy_lad · 11-05-2011 9:28pm

penexpers wrote: »

On the printed timetable it is stated that:

lxflyer wrote: »

Well it is now - it might have been lost in the sub-editing.

http://www.buseireann.ie/pdf/1297440887-33.pdf

this very important information was NOT on this timetable available online this morning/afternoon!

Does the timetable also state that the X33 service is not operated by bus Eireann but by a private operator who is now licenced to operator from busáras?

Tazz T · 16-05-2011 7:42pm

That information wasn't on the timetable or anywhere else when I got the bus a couple of weeks back. I was asked for €8 boarding the bus because I had bought a return regardless of whether I was getting the Express back again.

The actual cost of the express is still advertised nowhere at the Busaras or on their website. You don't find out until you get on the bus. I wonder what the National Consumer Agency has to say about that.

doopa · 17-05-2011 3:13pm

Tazz T wrote: »

That information wasn't on the timetable or anywhere else when I got the bus a couple of weeks back. I was asked for €8 boarding the bus because I had bought a return regardless of whether I was getting the Express back again.

The actual cost of the express is still advertised nowhere at the Busaras or on their website. You don't find out until you get on the bus. I wonder what the National Consumer Agency has to say about that.

Have you written to them? Just wondering what is likely to be the outcome. Any chance you could post up your letter/question?

Tazz T · 18-05-2011 1:31pm

Bus Eireann didn't reply to me. I've spoken to the consumer people and they've come back asking for more information and have said they will investigate further as the incident may contravene the Consumer Protection Act 2007 which

'prohibits traders from carrying out unfair commercial practices that would significantly cause the “average consumer” to make a transactional decision which he/she would not otherwise undertake. In other words, as a result of an advertisement or “invitation to purchase” buy goods or services that he/she would not otherwise purchase.'

antoinolachtnai · 18-05-2011 1:55pm

The issue here is that if you had known the correct information, would you not still have entered the transaction? This was gone through before in relation to Dublin Bus and its timetables. The NCA came to the view that it could not prosecute Dublin Bus under this section, even if its timetable turned out to be completely incorrect. I suppose if you'd had the correct information, you might have taken the McGinley's bus.

doopa · 18-05-2011 6:54pm

antoinolachtnai wrote: »

The issue here is that if you had known the correct information, would you not still have entered the transaction? This was gone through before in relation to Dublin Bus and its timetables. The NCA came to the view that it could not prosecute Dublin Bus under this section, even if its timetable turned out to be completely incorrect. I suppose if you'd had the correct information, you might have taken the McGinley's bus.

or an earlier later bus which doesn't have the premium.

Niles · 18-05-2011 7:13pm

Might this issue come under the NTA's remit? They seem to be showing their teeth quite a bit on other issues (including ones involving the CIÉ companies), perhaps a letter to them about the issue might be worth a shot.

foggy_lad · 31-05-2011 8:16pm

Bus Eireann may have a problem with their exclusion of free travel passes on the X33 services. The department of social protection or whatever its called this month has information on services that are covered

http://www.welfare.ie/EN/Schemes/FreeTravel/Pages/FreeTravel.aspx

Free travel is available on all State public transport (bus, rail and Dublin's LUAS service). Free travel is also available on a limited number of services that are operated by private bus transport companies. Private bus transport operators that have opted in to the Free Travel scheme, accept free travel passes. To check whether your private bus operator accepts free travel passes, you should contact the Department of Social Protection -see 'Where to apply' below.

now the new service is not operated privately at all it seems but as a bus eireann contractor "on hire to bus Eireann" which is plastered all over the bus used. So technically it is a bus Eireann service and subject to use by all free travel pass holders.

penexpers · 01-06-2011 10:19am

There are already a number of Bus Eireann services (Nightrider) and Irish Rail services (matchday specials etc..) that don't accept the pass. There's probably a mechanism to allow them to designate certain services as "special" which means they don't have to accept the pass.

http://www.welfare.ie/EN/Publications/SW40/Pages/6WhencanInotusemyFreeTravelPass.aspx

You cannot use your Free Travel Pass:

* on services not listed in the official rail and bus time tables of Dublin Bus, Bus Éireann or Iarnród Éireann,
* on tours and special bus or rail services,
* on organised group journeys,
* on Dublin Bus Nitelink services,
* on Dublin Bus special airport services, and
* on First Class or Super Class travel on any service (unless you pay the correct fare supplement).

LXFlyer · 01-06-2011 10:44am

This is also a cross border service - normal conditions do not necessarily apply.

foggy_lad · 01-06-2011 3:47pm

penexpers wrote: »

There are already a number of Bus Eireann services (Nightrider) and Irish Rail services (matchday specials etc..) that don't accept the pass. There's probably a mechanism to allow them to designate certain services as "special" which means they don't have to accept the pass.

http://www.welfare.ie/EN/Publications/SW40/Pages/6WhencanInotusemyFreeTravelPass.aspx

Afaik normal timetabled services should be open to use by anyone with free travel, services such as the 747 airport service and matchday specials are extras which would not be used in a normal day to day manner. Bus Eireann are excluding a sceduled service purely on the grounds that it is an express service

lxflyer wrote: »

This is also a cross border service - normal conditions do not necessarily apply.

Normal conditions do apply, the only thing different for free travel holders is they have to get a ticket/slip from the ticket office which has their pass number or pps number on it.

I must get in touch with the department of social protection and see what their views on this are.

doopa · 01-06-2011 4:39pm

The talk of prices for the premium service reminds me...

Sterling price of Ulsterbus = 23.50.
Got on the bus in Derry and asked a Bus Eireann Driver if I could pay in sterling - he goes yeah that will be 30 quid please. I pointed out that the Ulsterbus fare is 23.50 and he responds, ah alright then 25 quid sure. I enquired as to why the price difference and he said that Bus Eireann have a different exchange rate. Which is fair enough - but making up that exchange rate as you go along is definitely not!

Needless to say none of this is available on the promotional material.

Tae laidir · 24-09-2013 6:26pm

Anyone know where I can get the Winter Timetable for Route 33?
Buseireann.ie only has the summer one which expired on 21 September. :mad:

Banjoxed · 24-09-2013 6:57pm

Tae laidir wrote: »

Anyone know where I can get the Winter Timetable for Route 33?
Buseireann.ie only has the summer one which expired on 21 September. :mad:

This is what the Translink website is showing, as Ulsterbus Goldline is the co-operator of the route with Bus Eireann:

http://journeyplanner.translink.co.uk/cc/TTB/EFA01__00005174_TP.pdf

Tae laidir · 24-09-2013 7:13pm

Banjoxed wrote: »

This is what the Translink website is showing, as Ulsterbus Goldline is the co-operator of the route with Bus Eireann:

http://journeyplanner.translink.co.uk/cc/TTB/EFA01__00005174_TP.pdf[/QUOTE]

Obviously!

LXFlyer · 24-09-2013 7:30pm

There are two pages to the route 33 timetable - the second page is the winter timetable.

http://www.buseireann.ie/pdf/1360760073-033.pdf

Also Ulsterbus operate route X4:
http://journeyplanner.translink.co.uk/cc/TTB/EFA02__00001dc1_TP.pdf

Tae laidir · 24-09-2013 7:35pm

lxflyer wrote: »

There are two pages to the route 33 timetable - the second page is the winter timetable.

http://www.buseireann.ie/pdf/1360760073-033.pdf

I must be going blind.
I can only see Page 1

foggy_lad · 24-09-2013 7:37pm

Tae laidir wrote: »

I must be going blind.
I can only see Page 1

scroll down the page

Tae laidir · 24-09-2013 7:40pm

Thanks.
Still can't see it.

I'll blame my computer.

LXFlyer · 24-09-2013 9:30pm

Just scroll down - there is a second page!

Click on the link and hit the pgdn key.

Bus Eireann - Dublin to Derry

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