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Public Copyright Debate. Sean Sherlock and others (including me!). Tuesday 3rd.

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13

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    #62
    Socialist_Pig
    Closed Accounts Posts: 321 ✭✭Socialist_Pig


    sh1thead sherlock wrote:
    why are you still in business?
    DeVore wrote:
    Because I fight,ask MCD
    Class!!

    Well articulated arguments by DeVore and the legal eagle(cant remember his name)

    Fair play to sherlock for coming to the talk..he's still a dick though


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    #63
    lynski
    Registered Users Posts: 1,585 ✭✭✭lynski


    so SS wants a pat on the back for talking to people?
    <Pat>
    How has this taken so long? I can remember having such similar discussions more then 10 years ago, with senior civil servants. the bs that things have change and we need to catch up is epic.
    the civil servants have known for over 10 yrs that this was a problem.
    this government we have are just bootlicking pups, we are going to get screwed right left and center.

    SS is a stuffed shirt. Great arguments from all the others, well done.


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    #64
    SolarNexus
    Closed Accounts Posts: 703 ✭✭✭SolarNexus


    KyussBishop wrote: »
    Is there a youtube link to this? (can't view the ustream thing here)

    I'm working on one, will post the details around when its up.


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    #65
    gandalf
    Registered Users Posts: 26,458 ✭✭✭✭gandalf


    That video of the debate is extremely sobering and worrying because it highlights how out of depth Mr. Sherlock is in the portfolio he has responsibility for and how dangerous it is for our society when someone likes this has the ability to sign in bad law that could have serious repercussions for all our futures.


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    #66
    timesnap
    Closed Accounts Posts: 423 ✭✭timesnap


    Tom a simple thanks from me to you for fighting our corner from the get go.
    You have seen it all( and some more) so you would detect a poster fawning at you because you are the *boss* a mile away.
    I could be wrong but i think this would never have happened without you highlighting the issue on boards,no other site i visit made a deal of this.

    Due to this highlighting i emailed minister Sherlock with my two cents,it was the first time i ever engaged with a member of Govt directly and it felt good.

    Thanks to Wyrn who posted the link to watch the video i have watched it up to the point were you spoke, i must say you misrepresent yourself very often on boards,i was expecting you to look like a geriatric grey haired old man with a zimmerframe,not the dynamic character you appeared on screen:p

    In either the 'lets all laugh at people with depression' thread or the 'you have questions,i have answers thread, you threatened to leave Ireland behind by the end of this year,please DON'T:eek: We need you to encourage us to live *A life less ordinary*

    Also thanks to an Admin in feedback who closed a thread i started who i cannot name because he said it by PM that you would fight like hell to keep the ethos of boards alive and well.


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    #67
    PHIDIAS
    Registered Users Posts: 120 ✭✭PHIDIAS


    Great debate and hope its not the last, fair play to you Dev you got your points across well. I am not convinced however of Minister Sherlock sincerity though. He still seems to have no regard for legitimate concerns and seems to be driven by other interests. Also on another note i would like to thank you for also bringing up the fact that nothing has been done in regards to the x case, seems the government will wait as per usual for another example of this to happen again. Lets hope that is not the case. But well done Dev, much respect...


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    #68
    allanb49
    Registered Users Posts: 6,419 ✭✭✭allanb49


    youtube link anyone?


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    #69
    ShooterSF
    Registered Users Posts: 8,824 ✭✭✭ShooterSF


    Fascinating viewing and well done Dev not only did you make some great points you at times chaired the meeting yourself and stopped it going down unhelpful tangents that could have given Sherlock an easy out.


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    #70
    Lemming
    Registered Users Posts: 14,148 ✭✭✭✭Lemming


    Watched the footage last night. I really do wonder what world the minister lives in sometimes. A big "Thank you" to Tom for putting in a sterling performance with some great quotes.

    I was expecting Simon McGarr to put some serious legal smackdown on Minister Sherlock, but it just dind't happen to the extent I was hoping unfortunately. It was also a shame that Paul Durrant to come out a bit more too; he gave some interesting insights when he did speak but really, he sat back. Not to detract from either Simon or Paul, but I feel that had Tom not driven that debate I think it would have been a far more diluted and lacklustre affair that gave the minister a far easier time of it.

    As for the minister himself, as others have said; his performance was alarming. He also came across as insincere, afraid to answer questions & constantly trying to deflect them with either waffle or waving the CRC document in the air whilst misrepresenting some home truths, which Tom then deconstructed in spectacular fashion. Even when that woman speaking on behalf of content creators re musicians spoke up, Sean Sherlock conducted himself in a fairly dismissive fashion despite his words. I really do not think he is for changing and is towing a dogmatic line pedalled by the same people who are suing the country. Such people, who of course, never lie or massage facts pretend facts don't exist when inconvenient to their out-dated business models.


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    #71
    squonk
    Registered Users Posts: 8,583 ✭✭✭squonk


    Can someone please post a youtube link if one exists? This discussion is fairly pointless for those of use who haven't had a chance to see the debate yet.


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    #72
    Lemming
    Registered Users Posts: 14,148 ✭✭✭✭Lemming


    squonk wrote: »
    Can someone please post a youtube link if one exists? This discussion is fairly pointless for those of use who haven't had a chance to see the debate yet.

    From page 4.
    wyrn wrote: »
    For those who can't see the Science Gallery link, you can see it here


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    #73
    allanb49
    Registered Users Posts: 6,419 ✭✭✭allanb49


    Sherlock - You've been in business for 12 years
    Tom - 22, because i fight, Just ask MCD :D

    made me laugh out loud,


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    #74
    minidazzler
    Registered Users Posts: 14,739 ✭✭✭✭minidazzler


    allanb49 wrote: »
    Sherlock - You've been in business for 12 years
    Tom - 22, because i fight, Just ask MCD :D

    made me laugh out loud,

    Same, I actually clapped a bit then remembered that I was watching a recording so felt dumb! :D

    I can't wait til someone gets snippets of tom's best lines to put them together! :D Could be a techno song if done right :D


    And while this isn't the F&A forum, DeV looked like an undertaker wearing that black double-breasted suit. I'm not sure he picked it because it's generally a colour of power, but it worked. He had Sherlock agitated and pretty nervous.


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    #75
    DeVore
    Business & Finance Moderators, Entertainment Moderators Posts: 32,387 Mod ✭✭✭✭DeVore


    minidazzler wrote: »
    Same, I actually clapped a bit then remembered that I was watching a recording so felt dumb! :D

    I can't wait til someone gets snippets of tom's best lines to put them together! :D Could be a techno song if done right :D


    And while this isn't the F&A forum, DeV looked like an undertaker wearing that black double-breasted suit. I'm not sure he picked it because it's generally a colour of power, but it worked. He had Sherlock agitated and pretty nervous.

    Actually THIS is me looking like an undertaker
    B537637E1141422EAA99B7E298B3DB85-500.jpg

    Unfortunately all my funny comments will count for nothing if we don't get the points across in this CRC review... It's our only hope, it's that or revolution. :)


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    #76
    wyrn
    Registered Users Posts: 6,977 ✭✭✭wyrn


    One main point that struck me in several ways, was Minister Sherlock's inability to answer a simple yes or no question:

    Did you show the AG the alternative SI?

    *waffle waffle waffle* her office was made aware

    (apologies, I am terrible at getting quotes right)

    It's shocking, because at the end of the day, you want a public representative to work for us and the good of our country and when a simple y/n question is too much, how do they handle legislation...

    Anyway, Thank You Tom.


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    #77
    expectationlost
    Registered Users Posts: 11,769 ✭✭✭✭expectationlost


    DeVore wrote: »


    Unfortunately all my funny comments will count for nothing if we don't get the points across in this CRC review... It's our only hope, it's that or revolution. :)
    didn't you say it would be ignored.


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    #78
    expectationlost
    Registered Users Posts: 11,769 ✭✭✭✭expectationlost


    i put the crc document and all the submissions in a folder so you can search through them all at once https://docs.google.com/#folders/0B6AEiinGYynOdktESm5KbHhSRm1XWDBpYU05QzVjdw

    and eoin o'dell has written summaries of the chapters here http://www.cearta.ie/category/copyright/fair-use/crc12/

    some queries i've had, were

    who, from the first round of submissions asked for a copyright council?
    O'Dell answered that no one did...

    not entirely sure of the difference between fair dealing and fair use, but again i ask how many asked for US fair use rather then an expansion of fair dealing?

    some don't like fair use because... it leaves alot of wiggle room, and it neccesitates going to court to challenge things.

    of course the more liberal of us might be attracted by the idea of fair use but as we've seen we don't like the idea of people having to go to court to sort assert rights of ownership or use, hence the copyright council.

    but self regulation is always designed to fail, we've seen enough examples recently, and it always favours the favoured industry. and doesn't mean that the threat and cost of court doesn't remain the mtivating factor in people's decisions.

    there seems to be some pretence that the copyright council will work well for all involved. "Don’t pretend there is a consensus of ‘reasonable people’, that’s a fiction" http://knowfuture.wordpress.com/2012/01/31/irelands-post-sopa-tsunami/


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    #79
    SolarNexus
    Closed Accounts Posts: 703 ✭✭✭SolarNexus


    Sorry for not doing this earlier, my blog has the links to the Vimeo, video download link, and YouTube videos, an audio-only download, some photos and a bit of twitter trivia for those that are interested in such things:

    http://www.seannicholls.com/


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    #80
    KyussBishop
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,797 ✭✭✭KyussBishop


    ^^ Thanks for putting that up and linking that, finally getting around to watching this now; here's a direct YouTube link to that:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MQo0m-LSYpw

    One striking thing I've picked out: It was said by the ISPA person Paul Durrant that 'new letters have been sent out' (didn't take note of the timestamp in video unfortunately); does this means new injunctions have since been filed, based on the SI?

    Any information on that, if true?


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    #81
    jay-me
    Registered Users Posts: 1,002 ✭✭✭jay-me


    Kevin Baker ‏ @specialkbyte
    Nearly finished the 86Q survey made by the CRC that @seansherlocktd mentioned at #DRF2012. Only 90 mins in. On Q70. Skipped half questions.
    6 Apr Seán Sherlock ‏ @seansherlocktd
    @specialkbyte #DRF2012 #CRC12 genuinely, thank you.

    You just know he means it whole heartedly too!! What a ****ER!


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    #82
    expectationlost
    Registered Users Posts: 11,769 ✭✭✭✭expectationlost


    *crickets*


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    #83
    DeVore
    Business & Finance Moderators, Entertainment Moderators Posts: 32,387 Mod ✭✭✭✭DeVore


    expectationlost wrote: »
    *crickets*
    What were you expecting exactly?


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    #84
    smash
    Closed Accounts Posts: 34,809 ✭✭✭✭smash


    My thread in AH was closed down, but this is what I get when I go to his site:

    sherlock_2.jpg

    I'm guessing it's because I'm not on an Irish IP, because I certainly don't have any virus on my PC or network.


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    #85
    Lemming
    Registered Users Posts: 14,148 ✭✭✭✭Lemming


    smash wrote: »
    My thread in AH was closed down, but this is what I get when I go to his site:

    I'm guessing it's because I'm not on an Irish IP, because I certainly don't have any virus on my PC or network.

    The site is viewable for me at any rate.


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    #86
    smash
    Closed Accounts Posts: 34,809 ✭✭✭✭smash


    Lemming wrote: »
    The site is viewable for me at any rate.
    disregarding what browser I use, I get that page on first visit.


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    #87
    DeVore
    Business & Finance Moderators, Entertainment Moderators Posts: 32,387 Mod ✭✭✭✭DeVore


    Suspect it's something local to you as its fine for me...

    Tbh I don't mind about his website, what I care about are his policies.


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    #88
    trooney
    Registered Users Posts: 1,268 ✭✭✭trooney


    Interesting development in Germany -

    http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/world/2012/0412/1224314639181.html
    GERMANY’S MAVERICK Pirate Party has gone from electoral fluke to the third most popular party, according to a new poll for Stern magazine.

    In just four years the new arrival has overtaken the Green Party to become Germany’s third most popular political grouping, with 13 per cent support.

    “For many young people, the Greens have become a stale, old-fashioned party,” said Manfred Güllner, poll analyst with Forsa polling agency.

    Today’s poll data will increase anxiety among the Greens and across the political establishment – still struggling to cope with the emergence of the Left Party – that Germany’s political landscape has splintered once again.

    Until now the Pirate Party’s regional rise has mirrored the fall from grace of the Free Democratic Party (FDP), Chancellor Merkel’s luckless coalition partner.

    But with the FDP now apparently stable at five per cent, the Pirates have in their sights the one-time rebels in the Green Party.

    In many ways the Pirates have co-opted the Green Party’s grassroots tradition for the Facebook generation. Formal Pirate party policy is still a work in progress but draws on the idea of universal access: to public transport, the internet, as well as knowledge and culture – through legalised file sharing or modified copyright protection on everything from music to pharmaceuticals.

    Just as important as the party’s message is the medium: social media like Facebook and Twitter, public online discussions as well as regular open-door meetings.

    The success of the fledgling party has come as a surprise to everyone, not least party members who have found themselves elected to regional office often with only basic party structures.

    From a standing start, the Pirates polled two per cent in Germany’s 2009 general election. Last year’s 9 per cent share in a Berlin state poll was dismissed as a protest vote from the capital’s army of young digital bohemians.

    But that analysis went out the window when the Pirates seized 7.4 per cent of the vote in the tiny western state of Saarland. With state polls looming next month in Schleswig-Holstein and North Rhine-Westphalia – all bets are off.

    For now, Forsa says the Pirates are trading on its protest character among younger German voters disenchanted with the established parties. But, as the Greens once showed, disenchantment can be a powerful catalyst for change.


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    #89
    Slydice
    Registered Users Posts: 10,501 ✭✭✭✭Slydice


    The second half of Prime Time on RTE this evening seems to have something on the new law that's been put into place. Dealing with water charges first though right now.

    Live here: http://www.rte.ie/player/#l=8


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    #90
    Professey Chin
    Registered Users Posts: 51,054 ✭✭✭✭Professey Chin


    So far everythings on the full assumption that each download = lost sale


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    #91
    timesnap
    Closed Accounts Posts: 423 ✭✭timesnap


    The Great Chinholio wrote: »
    So far everythings on the full assumption that each download = lost sale

    Nice that it was also mentioned that people always found ways of buying one and copying it to many.

    More important that it was said there are people who will never buy or cannot afford to
    The latest data we have is that one third of Irish households do not have a bank account.

    I downloaded the entire series of the west wing,having watched it I wanted the box set and bought it.

    They need to think again because there is more profit from free *previews*, which in my experience leads to people getting to know them thus buying their CD's or movies,if they like their talent.


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