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Argentina coach again seeks Six Nations spot

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  • 17-08-2007 9:04pm
    #1
    AbusesToilets
    Registered Users Posts: 10,001 ✭✭✭✭


    From today's Irish Times : http://www.ireland.com/newspaper/sport/2007/0817/1187036624234.html

    Argentina coach again seeks Six Nations spot

    Paul Rees

    Argentina's coach Marcelo Loffreda last night made a renewed plea for the Pumas to be added to the Six Nations Championship, arguing they would raise the standard of the tournament and broaden the horizons of the game in Europe by being based in Spain.

    The Argentinians this week climbed to fifth in the world rankings, their highest-ever position, with only one Six Nations team, France, above them, and in recent years they have defeated all of the participating countries, and picked up victories in Marseille, Twickenham and Cardiff.

    Despite their success, though, doors have stayed shut to them, Australia opposing their entry into the Tri-Nations and England and France saying there is no room in the calendar for an extra Six Nations fixture.

    "The International Rugby Board has been very supportive, but nothing is happening," said Loffreda, who is Leicester-bound after the World Cup. "The Six Nations would be better for us because most of our players are based in Europe, and Spain would be a natural country to play in."

    All but one of the starting 15 to face Wales tomorrow earn their living in Europe, the stand-in full-back Federico Serra the exception.

    Meanwhile, France said yesterday they had postponed until August 31st a final decision on whether prop Sylvain Marconnet can play at the World Cup.

    The 31-year-old, France's mostcapped prop with 71 international appearances, is struggling to recover from an operation on his left shinbone following a skiing accident in March.

    "Sylvain had a series of medical checks which showed that the calcification of his left leg was still developing," France team officer Lionel Rossigneux said. "It has been decided to grant him a new extension until August 31st after a new series of tests."

    Despite his injury, the Stade Francais player has been named in France's World Cup squad. But Perpignan's Nicolas Mas has been called to the training camp and will replace him if he is ruled unfit.

    Lawrence Dallaglio has rejected the suggestion by the former captain Will Carling that his presence in England's World Cup squad might affect team spirit. "I'm just not a divisive person," said the 35-year-old former captain.


    © 2007 The Irish Times

    I know this is an issue that has come up a few times in the past.I feel that the IRB really should give them a chance to play.If they are serious about developing the game and expanding rugby's playing field then i don't see how they can be against this.After the farce of giving the 2011 RWC to New Zealand over Japan, a move like this would demonstrate genuine desire to help countries develop.It would certainly up the intensity level of the tournament.
    The situation now is a joke,Argentina are 5th in the world rankings and they quite possibly won't get out of their world cup group and yet countries that are much weaker get a practical free pass to the quarters and thus instant qualification for the next RWC. I think a fairer system would be a matrix which balanced a countries last performance in a RWC with their rankings and performances in the run up to a new tournament
    Post edited by aloooof on


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    #2
    EdgarAllenPoo
    Registered Users Posts: 2,686 ✭✭✭EdgarAllenPoo


    Personally I'd like to see them included. Putting them in the Tri-Nations seems odd to me and I think they would be better suited to the 6 Nations.


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    #3
    zAbbo
    Registered Users Posts: 11,987 ✭✭✭✭zAbbo


    Their union need to sort themselves out, bunch of amateurs.


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    #4
    Stev_o
    Registered Users Posts: 9,249 ✭✭✭Stev_o


    zabbo wrote:
    Their union need to sort themselves out, bunch of amateurs.


    You cant really say that considering that most Argentine rugby commentators say that if the Pumas went professional it would be disastrous and i for one would agree. Its just that given their economy they dont really have the funds to have a professional Union, if they made the change i could see them getting into alot of debt fairly quickly and not having a escape option. It would be like the situation in Scotland but twice as bad and twice as disastrous for the game there.

    I totally agree for having them in the 6 Nations it will further the sport and hopefully attract Latin peoples attention and they will get involved in the sport. Plus it seems very very strange that the 5th rank nation in the world does not compete in any yearly competitions


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    #5
    JC 2K3
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,794 ✭✭✭JC 2K3


    Are we ranked 6th then?


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    #6
    Stev_o
    Registered Users Posts: 9,249 ✭✭✭Stev_o


    JC 2K3 wrote:
    Are we ranked 6th then?

    Yup after loosing to Scotland we moved down one place


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    #7
    daveirl
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,483 ✭✭✭✭daveirl


    This post has been deleted.


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    #8
    AlphaMale 3OO
    Closed Accounts Posts: 907 ✭✭✭AlphaMale 3OO


    daveirl wrote:
    This post has been deleted.

    You have no proof of this. I've been to Argentina, they do not have the rugby infastructure to even have 1 professional outfit. They have strong provinces but the players will always leave. The current system would be perfect if they got into the 6 nations. They have a huge rugby following there with no money to back it up. Its basically a 3rd world country. Their union will remain amateur and rightly so. They need someone to throw them a line and bring them into a regular competition


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    #9
    AbusesToilets
    Registered Users Posts: 10,001 ✭✭✭✭AbusesToilets


    I think it would be a good idea,but what sort of fanbase could they expect? I don't think they would be very many Argentinians who could afford to travel to europe for these games.If they were based in Spain,what sort of following could they expect there,especially seeing as the Spainish team plays in the 6Nations B competition.
    It would be a huge disadvantage not to have a decent home support


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    #10
    Junior
    Registered Users Posts: 3,181 ✭✭✭Junior


    What would be the benefit for Argentina besides actually getting some competitive matches ? Would TV Revenue generate monies for their rugby infrastructure at home ? Could it start the ball rolling on a professional game over there ?


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    #11
    AlphaMale 3OO
    Closed Accounts Posts: 907 ✭✭✭AlphaMale 3OO


    It could. But because they are so far out on a rugby lim there is a lack of meaningful competition nearby. Essentially the game would be domestically professional with no international competition, e.g. Heineken Cup Another solution is to include Argentinian provinces in the Super 14. This would certainly bring the best players back home and inject money into the domestic game and feeding off that, Argentina could be included in an expanded Tri-Nations. This would allow them to play in the same rugby season as the Tri-Nations. Currently this is a huge barrier to entry into that competition because the Argie players play the European season. Their following in Spain would probably be not all that good but it would be better than the current situation. Something needs to be done though. Shame on Australia. They just don't want to get pushed around in the scrum by yet another team. They already have their hands full. Saving that, maybe tectonic movement of the continental plates would enable them to enter in say, 65 million years.


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    #12
    daveirl
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,483 ✭✭✭✭daveirl


    This post has been deleted.


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    #13
    AlphaMale 3OO
    Closed Accounts Posts: 907 ✭✭✭AlphaMale 3OO


    Your not unique. I toured there for a month. Anyway, just because they fcuked up a few fixtures, you see this as a reason to exclude them from international competition? Thats all trivial stuff in comparison to the real problem which is: If they are not rewarded for the potential they have shown they will go down the road of Romania who were extremely competitive in the 1980's and the oppurtunity to expand beyond the big 9 will be lost. To me the lack of help being offered to them is far more inexcusable than confusion over fixture venues/times/whatever. For 8 years they have been knocking on the door and it will only last so much longer. They have a unique set of talented players who WILL move on eventually, by which time the oppurtunity to grow their game will be gone. If they become the next Romania thats terrible but they could become the next Italy. Its as simple as that.


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    #14
    daveirl
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,483 ✭✭✭✭daveirl


    This post has been deleted.


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    #15
    dulpit
    Registered Users Posts: 10,387 ✭✭✭✭dulpit


    I think they need to be catered for somewhere... It's amazing to think that one of the top teams in the world only gets a purely competitive set of games every 4 years...

    Is the 6 nations the best place for them? I dunno, is the tri-nations better? I really don't know but they need somewhere to go, really...


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    #16
    marco_polo
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 10,076 Mod ✭✭✭✭marco_polo


    dulpit wrote:
    I think they need to be catered for somewhere... It's amazing to think that one of the top teams in the world only gets a purely competitive set of games every 4 years...

    Is the 6 nations the best place for them? I dunno, is the tri-nations better? I really don't know but they need somewhere to go, really...

    As things stand at the moment I don't see them getting in to the 6 nations as the fixture list is congested enough as it is. I think one or two Argentinian pro teams in an expanded super 14 and Tri nations is a much more likely scenario.

    Granted it would take them a few years to get up and running to a decent level and attract their top players home from France, but it would be better in the long term for Argie rugby.

    I cannot see how having the National team playing out of Spain and leaving the game totally amature back home is really the best option for the Union, is it sustainable in the long term?


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    #17
    AlphaMale 3OO
    Closed Accounts Posts: 907 ✭✭✭AlphaMale 3OO


    Not really sustainable but if they moved the 6 Nations to May/June as has been suggested in the past, the Argies could probably play at home as part of the competition as the Northern club season would be over and this is the time of year where teams travel on southern hemisphere tours anyway, which would discount the travel arguement. And yes, the French club season would be over by then because the idea was that the season would be played in blocks as it is down south so club rugby would end before international rugby starts so Heineken Cup would already be out of the way. Some shifting of the scheduling would be beneficial.


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    #18
    daveirl
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,483 ✭✭✭✭daveirl


    This post has been deleted.


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    #19
    Stev_o
    Registered Users Posts: 9,249 ✭✭✭Stev_o


    True Dave the Argies top hierarchy are a mess i dont think anyone can argue with that the only man who has been trying to get things done for the Pumas is Marcelo Loffreda and he has expressed in countless interviews that his Union just does not helo him. Its like the IRFU after the game went pro but about twice as worse. To be honest the only thing i could suggest is that the IRB either help them out by appointing people that can get the job done for the Pumas Union and for their fee's to be paid by the Union.

    BUT i am well aware that this is most unlikely and wont happen. People will probably beg Marcelo Loffreda to get into a high spot in their Union as he is a man will get the ball rolling. Just need to get men in there just to get the papaerwork professional if they cant afford to let the whole game go professional


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    #20
    daveirl
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,483 ✭✭✭✭daveirl


    This post has been deleted.


This discussion has been closed.
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