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Trespassing

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  • 25-05-2015 8:53pm
    #1
    Thedarkb
    Registered Users Posts: 143 ✭✭


    Around most level crossings there's a small area where there's usually a small prefab and odds and ends, would it be considered tresspassing to shoot in there?


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    #2
    savagethegoat
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,297 ✭✭✭savagethegoat


    Rabbits or photos?


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    #3
    Slippin Jimmy
    Registered Users Posts: 6,031 ✭✭✭Slippin Jimmy


    Thedarkb wrote: »
    Around most level crossings there's a small area where there's usually a small prefab and odds and ends, would it be considered tresspassing to shoot in there?

    I would think that anywhere other than stations, railway crossings and bridges would be considered trespassing unless you have permission to be there. I'm open to correction though.


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    #4
    savagethegoat
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,297 ✭✭✭savagethegoat


    the areas are usually fenced off so I'd say noone but Staff are welcome in that area.


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    #5
    Jamie2k9
    Registered Users Posts: 10,673 ✭✭✭✭Jamie2k9


    Not a good area to shoot videos as there is CCTV and if catching the 22000's, I know cases where IE have gotten the guards to a few spotters wasting police time at it's highest Some drivers are afraid to be filmed :rolleyes:

    Stay behind the barriers is my advise.


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    #6
    h.gricer
    Registered Users Posts: 153 ✭✭h.gricer


    Thedarkb wrote: »
    Around most level crossings there's a small area where there's usually a small prefab and odds and ends, would it be considered tresspassing to shoot in there?
    Well things have changed enormously in the last 10 years with ''health & safety'' rules, if your standing on the wrong side of the palletised fencing then you are technically trespassing, but it all depends on the individual situation, drivers, staff etc are fearful of suicides and anti social behaviour etc. so when a train driver is passing at speed he doesn't know what an individual is up to.
    The UK is very strict, there is no discretion, put your big toe on the wrong side of a notice or a line and you risk being arrested by the British Transport Police, that's what used to puzzle me in resent years, you had train enthusiasts from the UK, reared in that strict environment of the British Transport Police, then when they arrived on the Emerald Isle they ran amok, it was like a bottled up madness set free, but infact they ruined it for the natives here. It's getting more and more like the UK, common sense is gone, when I look at some of my own photos taken 20 years ago and longer, we got away with murder, climbing siginal poles, water towers and where there was a ''gricing perch'' available, we availed of it, standing on the ''wrong side of a fence'' was minor, them days are long gone.
    Regards
    h.gricer


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    #7
    Losty Dublin
    Registered Users Posts: 13,003 ✭✭✭✭Losty Dublin


    h.gricer wrote: »

    Well things have changed enormously in the last 10 years with ''health & safety'' rules, if your standing on the wrong side of the palletised fencing then you are technically trespassing, but it all depends on the individual situation, drivers, staff etc are fearful of suicides and anti social behaviour etc. so when a train driver is passing at speed he doesn't know what an individual is up to.
    The UK is very strict, there is no discretion, put your big toe on the wrong side of a notice or a line and you risk being arrested by the British Transport Police, that's what used to puzzle me in resent years, you had train enthusiasts from the UK, reared in that strict environment of the British Transport Police, then when they arrived on the Emerald Isle they ran amok, it was like a bottled up madness set free, but infact they ruined it for the natives here. It's getting more and more like the UK, common sense is gone, when I look at some of my own photos taken 20 years ago and longer, we got away with murder, climbing siginal poles, water towers and where there was a ''gricing perch'' available, we availed of it, standing on the ''wrong side of a fence'' was minor, them days are long gone.
    Regards
    h.gricer

    HG, you know yourself but back in them days even a cab ride wasn't out of the question if you asked the right man on the right day and in the right way. Nowadays a driver would be fearful for his job if you let you into the cab for a glance. Sad days :(


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    #8
    whisky_galore
    Registered Users Posts: 15,832 ✭✭✭✭whisky_galore


    Losty Dublin wrote: »
    HG, you know yourself but back in them days even a cab ride wasn't out of the question if you asked the right man on the right day and in the right way. Nowadays a driver would be fearful for his job if you let you into the cab for a glance. Sad days :(

    It's a modern world and a modern workplace. You wouldn't get left in to a modern factory or company premises unless you had business there, would you? And even then it's strictly controlled.
    A simple thing like a cab ride can be rumbled by a photographer (either one lineside or in the cab) posting a pic online for all and sundry to see. I don't blame drivers really, it's their livelihood after all.


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    #9
    h.gricer
    Registered Users Posts: 153 ✭✭h.gricer


    whisky_galore wrote: »
    It's a modern world and a modern workplace. You wouldn't get left in to a modern factory or company premises unless you had business there, would you? And even then it's strictly controlled.
    A simple thing like a cab ride can be rumbled by a photographer (either one lineside or in the cab) posting a pic online for all and sundry to see. I don't blame drivers really, it's their livelihood after all.
    Indeed well said, I don't have a photo at hand, I would have to do a seach, but a British Transport Police trespass notice usually reads ''B.T.P. TRESPASSING ON OR NEAR THE RAILWAY IS A CRIMINAL OFFENCE, ON CONVICTION YOU WILL RECEIVE A CRIMINAL RECORD, YOU PUT YOUR LIFE AND THE LIVES OF OTHERS IN SERIOUS DANGER OF INJURY OR DEATH, FINES OR JAIL SENTENCE OR BOTH WILL APPLY ON CONVICTION''
    It's zero tolerance on trespassing, but these days the B.T.P. have now declared a full scale war on cable thieves, cable theft is now a major crime for the Transport Police, new notices appearing all over the network, warning thieves that cable is now DNA marked and can and will be traced, night patrols on the lineside to catch these criminals, that's for another thread.
    Back to the lay back Emerald Isle, common sense is fine, but if you behavour like an idiot, you'll be treated like one.
    Regards
    hg


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    #10
    Jamie2k9
    Registered Users Posts: 10,673 ✭✭✭✭Jamie2k9


    Losty Dublin wrote: »
    HG, you know yourself but back in them days even a cab ride wasn't out of the question if you asked the right man on the right day and in the right way. Nowadays a driver would be fearful for his job if you let you into the cab for a glance. Sad days :(

    Got a good spin in a 201 some years back but had to get out at Kildare because driver wouldn't risk it into Heuston.


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    #11
    h.gricer
    Registered Users Posts: 153 ✭✭h.gricer


    Jamie2k9 wrote: »
    Got a good spin in a 201 some years back but had to get out at Kildare because driver wouldn't risk it into Heuston.
    1 of my best cab rides was on 023 in March 1989 from Limerick to Claremorris on the coal+oil Asahi train, but probably the most unusual cab ride was in September 1986 when 13 enthusiasts (including myself) travel in the cab of 124 from Ennis to Athenry on an F&W Eireann Explorer railtour, the good old days.
    regards
    h.gricer


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    #12
    Captain Chaos
    Registered Users Posts: 11,174 ✭✭✭✭Captain Chaos


    14 people in the cab of a 121!, must have been worse than a rush hour DART.

    I regrettably refused a cab ride way back. It was an A class hauling ammonia leaving platform 7 at Connolly, can't remember how far he was going to take me as I think another loco was going to take over for the rest of the run to Cork and he was going back light to Connolly.

    I was only a young lad at the time. To this day I'm sickened I said no.


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    #13
    h.gricer
    Registered Users Posts: 153 ✭✭h.gricer


    Captain Chaos wrote: »
    14 people in the cab of a 121!, must have been worse than a rush hour DART.

    .
    I correct myself, 13 in total including driver, so 12 enthusiasts, the guard travel in the van, it was amusing when we arrived in Athenry, the driver changed and new driver at Athenry that took the train on return journey to Connolly didn't find it amusing and there the fun ended.
    Regards
    hg


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    #14
    end of the road
    Registered Users Posts: 28,997 ✭✭✭✭end of the road


    Jamie2k9 wrote: »
    catching the 22000's

    ah here. LOL

    ticking a box on a form does not make you of a religion.



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    #15
    Thedarkb
    Registered Users Posts: 143 ✭✭Thedarkb


    Jamie2k9 wrote: »
    Not a good area to shoot videos as there is CCTV and if catching the 22000's, I know cases where IE have gotten the guards to a few spotters wasting police time at it's highest Some drivers are afraid to be filmed :rolleyes:

    Stay behind the barriers is my advise.

    Might be afraid I'd bazuka 'em with my telephoto lens


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    #16
    Heisenberg1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,511 ✭✭✭Heisenberg1


    Thedarkb wrote: »
    Around most level crossings there's a small area where there's usually a small prefab and odds and ends, would it be considered tresspassing to shoot in there?

    Yes that is trespassing you are endangering your life by doing so and endangering people's jobs at the same time.


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    #17
    Losty Dublin
    Registered Users Posts: 13,003 ✭✭✭✭Losty Dublin


    h.gricer wrote: »
    I correct myself, 13 in total including driver, so 12 enthusiasts, the guard travel in the van, it was amusing when we arrived in Athenry, the driver changed and new driver at Athenry that took the train on return journey to Connolly didn't find it amusing and there the fun ended.
    Regards
    hg

    Having been in a 121 cab, it would surprise people just how many you could shoehorn in. Especially when a cab ride is on offer :)

    There actually came a time some years ago when a limit of 2 and a supervising inspector was imposed by the company. It came back to haunt them in the 90's; there is a story to that one ;)


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    #18
    h.gricer
    Registered Users Posts: 153 ✭✭h.gricer


    Losty Dublin wrote: »

    There actually came a time some years ago when a limit of 2 and a supervising inspector was imposed by the company. It came back to haunt them in the 90's; there is a story to that one ;)
    That's what we where told when we arrived in Athenry, I remember a UK gricer at the time in a very strong Bermingham accent replying ''dats ok mate, but 10 just got off'' very funny at the time, when we arrived back at Connolly I was invited back into the cab, that particular railtour was unusual, it started and finished in Rosslare Port. That morning 012 worked the tour Rosslare / Limerick, on arriving in Limerick G611 was at the platform (Limerick's pet loco) giving cab rides in the station area, then 124+122 worked the tour Limerick / Connolly, on arrival in Connolly we had another loco change for 186+160, I was invited back into the cab and travel back to Rosslare, a wonderful day with wonderful weather and with wonderful memories.
    Regards
    h.gricer


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    #19
    Thedarkb
    Registered Users Posts: 143 ✭✭Thedarkb


    Heisenberg1 wrote: »
    Yes that is trespassing you are endangering your life by doing so and endangering people's jobs at the same time.

    How would I be endangering my life by standing back from the track with a camera in a storage yard?


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    #20
    Heisenberg1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,511 ✭✭✭Heisenberg1


    Level crossings are not storage yards you could loose your footing and fall towards the rail there is a reason railways are fenced off. You shouldn't be on or near the line like that it's dangerous.


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    #21
    Thedarkb
    Registered Users Posts: 143 ✭✭Thedarkb


    I'm referring to the area where they store old track and permanent way equipment next to some level crossings, the chances of me falling onto the track is fairly slim.


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    #22
    savagethegoat
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,297 ✭✭✭savagethegoat


    there's also the danger that, seeing you, others may follow your example and not be as rail savvy as no doubt you are. there's a real risk there


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    #23
    Chemical Byrne
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,311 ✭✭✭Chemical Byrne


    Heisenberg1 wrote: »
    Level crossings are not storage yards you could loose your footing and fall towards the rail there is a reason railways are fenced off. You shouldn't be on or near the line like that it's dangerous.

    Same thing could happen walking down the footpath and get run over by a van. By the same logic are we not taking our life in our hands walking down the road?
    If anything I'd say a railway is safer than the street - sure a car or van could fly up onto the footpath at any second. A train on tracks is a a little bit more predictable.


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    #24
    Losty Dublin
    Registered Users Posts: 13,003 ✭✭✭✭Losty Dublin


    You probably have never walked on a track before. We are talking about an uneven surface of ballast, sleepers and rails. Often these are slippy through grease, oil, water and other discharges from trains and far far more unsafe to walk on than a pavement.

    There is generally no side path or area to walk in either and you are usually on an embankment or in a cutting or bridge so when a train comes you have very few places to hide.

    Also, the speed at which oncoming trains come at you adds to the risk and markedly so. A train moving at 50 miles an hour covers a quarter mile in 18 seconds. It takes the same train twice that time to come to a halt. At 100MPH you are looking at just 9 seconds to cover 1/4 mile and almost 1000 metres to come to a halt. See you too late and you and the driver have as good as no chance to get to safety.

    No way is it as safe as a pavement.

    Chemical Byrne wrote: »
    Same thing could happen walking down the footpath and get run over by a van. By the same logic are we not taking our life in our hands walking down the road?
    If anything I'd say a railway is safer than the street - sure a car or van could fly up onto the footpath at any second. A train on tracks is a a little bit more predictable.


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    #25
    Chemical Byrne
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,311 ✭✭✭Chemical Byrne


    Well I disagree. Your hardly going to be gadding pottering about the tracks on a busy route. Excercise a small bit of cop on and you'd be grand.
    I used regularly walk a part of the LJ-Waterford line and its grand because the alignment was originally built to facilitate doubling at a later date so its plenty wide and it is a very quiet line. And it's a damn lot safer walking there than on the rat race local primary road running alongside it in places. Been doing it with many many years and I've never been in an accident with a train or gotten in trouble.
    A train moving at 50 miles an hour covers a quarter mile in 18 seconds.

    And???
    So does anything moving at 50mph. Car, powerboat, cheetah, whatever. . :confused: what are you trying to prove?


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    #26
    whisky_galore
    Registered Users Posts: 15,832 ✭✭✭✭whisky_galore


    Chemical Byrne wrote: »
    Well I disagree. Your hardly going to be gadding pottering about the tracks on a busy route. Excercise a small bit of cop on and you'd be grand.
    I used regularly walk a part of the LJ-Waterford line and its grand because the alignment was originally built to facilitate doubling at a later date so its plenty wide and it is a very quiet line. And it's a damn lot safer walking there than on the rat race local primary road running alongside it in places. Been doing it with many many years and I've never been in an accident with a train or gotten in trouble.



    And???
    So does anything moving at 50mph. Car, powerboat, cheetah, whatever. . :confused: what are you trying to prove?

    Still is trespassing, locals around Clonmel seem to think the railway formation is some sort of public footpath.

    http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/2001/en/act/pub/0055/sec0064.html

    Just because no-one has met with a mishap (yet) certainly does not make it legal.


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    #27
    Thedarkb
    Registered Users Posts: 143 ✭✭Thedarkb


    I'm not talking about walking on the track, i'm just talking about standing next to a level crossing inside the fence well away from the track for a clearer shot.


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    #28
    Chemical Byrne
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,311 ✭✭✭Chemical Byrne


    Personally I don't see the harm in it if you know how to look after yourself. IR employees are regularly standing in tight enough spots with trains running by without issue.
    I know now I'm going to get speils about them having special training and so forth but ffs like, how much training does it take to know to stand out of the way when a train is due. It's just common sense.

    Yeah I know its against the law to go onto the railway, but unless you are making a nusaince of yourself or doing something that is obviously dangerous then I don't see a problem with it. Sure half the laws of this country aren't enforced anyway.

    It all about picking the right time and place. Like, I walk on the LJ-Waterford line because its very quiet line with very litte traffic plus where I live near it is a very peacful rural area - I certainly wouldn't venture across the fence on any of the busy mainline routes or in urban areas.


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    #29
    whisky_galore
    Registered Users Posts: 15,832 ✭✭✭✭whisky_galore


    If you want 'that shot' either get permission and be supervised by an IE staff member while doing it or invest in a decent lens so you can take it from a public area. Not advocating trespass here period. It just makes things awkward for the rest of us who abide by the law.

    If you don't work for IE and have a PTS course done you have no business being there.


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    #30
    Thedarkb
    Registered Users Posts: 143 ✭✭Thedarkb


    whisky_galore wrote: »
    If you want 'that shot' either get permission and be supervised by an IE staff member while doing it or invest in a decent lens so you can take it from a public area. Not advocating trespass here period. It just makes things awkward for the rest of us who abide by the law.

    If you don't work for IE and have a PTS course done you have no business being there.

    A 35-70 is on its way :)
    This incident related to me missing a shot of 086 led me to purchase it


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    #31
    Losty Dublin
    Registered Users Posts: 13,003 ✭✭✭✭Losty Dublin


    The point here though is this; you don't know how to look after yourself on or close to a track. You don't know any of the risks or dangers at hand, the safety drills and procedures, what do do in emergencies or awareness of potential train movements. You may say it's all about common sense but that just it; things like this can't be left to common sense or chance ;)

    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=95488109&postcount=1
    Chemical Byrne wrote: »
    Personally I don't see the harm in it if you know how to look after yourself. IR employees are regularly standing in tight enough spots with trains running by without issue.
    I know now I'm going to get speils about them having special training and so forth but ffs like, how much training does it take to know to stand out of the way when a train is due. It's just common sense.

    Yeah I know its against the law to go onto the railway, but unless you are making a nusaince of yourself or doing something that is obviously dangerous then I don't see a problem with it. Sure half the laws of this country aren't enforced anyway.

    It all about picking the right time and place. Like, I walk on the LJ-Waterford line because its very quiet line with very litte traffic plus where I live near it is a very peacful rural area - I certainly wouldn't venture across the fence on any of the busy mainline routes or in urban areas.


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