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Gifted Children on RTE1 tonight. . .

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  • 03-05-2011 11:04pm
    #1
    Feeded
    Registered Users Posts: 247 ✭✭


    What a show!! Some of the younger kids are real gems but some of those older kids in the vox pops better learn a little humility or else they'll be brilliant and lonely.


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    #2
    Amazotheamazing
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,048 ✭✭✭Amazotheamazing


    Feeded wrote: »
    What a show!! Some of the younger kids are real gems but some of those older kids in the vox pops better learn a little humility or else they'll be brilliant and lonely.

    Think that's just the nature of their ages though. Interesting enough programme.


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    #3
    Tapes
    Closed Accounts Posts: 111 ✭✭Tapes


    That lad that got the four bs in the JC was not as smart as he thought he was.


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    #4
    Lady Chatterton
    Registered Users Posts: 19,585 ✭✭✭✭Lady Chatterton


    I found this programme strangely depressing, none of the children seemed to appear particularly happy, which is really really sad. Having done some volunteer work with children with special needs, I was surprised at the similarities between children with special needs and gifted children; both appear to have difficulties fitting in within their peer group. The frustration displayed by the children's parents is also similar to the frustration experienced by some parents of children with special needs who often feel their children's needs are not being adequately met by the education system.

    I thought Jack was a lovely kid, I hope his mum makes a full recovery, it must be so tough for her to be bringing three kids up on her own, one gifted and one with special needs, while also battling cancer. I hope good times lie ahead for the family.


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    #5
    shadowninty
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,654 ✭✭✭shadowninty


    Tapes wrote: »
    That lad that got the four bs in the JC was not as smart as he thought he was.

    didn't see it.. bet he was more lazy than dumb tho ;)


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    #6
    byhookorbycrook
    Moderators, Education Moderators, Regional South East Moderators Posts: 12,482 Mod ✭✭✭✭byhookorbycrook


    Tapes wrote: »
    That lad that got the four bs in the JC was not as smart as he thought he was.
    Exams like the Junior cert are no indicators of IQ. It's a big problem with exceptionally able children-they have never been challenged in school so opt out.

    Any parents who think their child may be exceptionally able should check out giftedkids.ie


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    #7
    metrovelvet
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,376 ✭✭✭metrovelvet


    MrsD007 wrote: »
    I found this programme strangely depressing, none of the children seemed to appear particularly happy, which is really really sad. Having done some volunteer work with children with special needs, I was surprised at the similarities between children with special needs and gifted children; both appear to have difficulties fitting in within their peer group. The frustration displayed by the children's parents is also similar to the frustration experienced by some parents of children with special needs who often feel their children's needs are not being adequately met by the education system.

    I thought Jack was a lovely kid, I hope his mum makes a full recovery, it must be so tough for her to be bringing three kids up on her own, one gifted and one with special needs, while also battling cancer. I hope good times lie ahead for the family.

    Gifted children have special needs too. It's just not recognised.


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    #8
    Lady Chatterton
    Registered Users Posts: 19,585 ✭✭✭✭Lady Chatterton


    metrovelvet wrote: »
    Gifted children have special needs too. It's just not recognised.
    I agree with you, the challenges faced by gifted children and special needs children are very similar but I suspect that many parents of gifted children would be very offended if you referred to their children as having special needs. (I completely understand your point though).


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    #9
    SugarHigh
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,265 ✭✭✭SugarHigh


    An interesting article from a high IQ society on gifted people.
    http://www.prometheussociety.org/articles/Outsiders.html

    The environment you grow up seems to decide how well you fit in.


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    #10
    metrovelvet
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,376 ✭✭✭metrovelvet


    MrsD007 wrote: »
    I agree with you, the challenges faced by gifted children and special needs children are very similar but I suspect that many parents of gifted children would be very offended if you referred to their children as having special needs. (I completely understand your point though).

    I think parents of gifted children would be relieved for this to be recognised as would the many gifted children who spend their childhoods tortured with boredom in school.

    Time for an advocacy group.


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    #11
    TaraFoxglove
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,057 ✭✭✭TaraFoxglove


    Someone who was in my class in college was on the show tonight, a former CTYI student. Nowhere near the best and brightest in our class. I got a higher degree grade than this person and my degree grade was NOT anything to write home about! :pac:


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    #12
    shadowninty
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,654 ✭✭✭shadowninty


    TaraFoxglove wrote: »
    Someone who was in my class in college was on the show tonight, a former CTYI student. Nowhere near the best and brightest in our class. I got a higher degree grade than this person and my degree grade was NOT anything to write home about! :pac:
    what result they get is little indication of intelligence ... for that CTYI thing you have to do this English and Maths logic test
    Something you can't study for


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    #13
    donegal11
    Closed Accounts Posts: 689 ✭✭✭donegal11


    Tapes wrote: »
    That lad that got the four bs in the JC was not as smart as he thought he was.

    he got 6 b's and 4 a's, hardly exceptional and i bet one of those a's was cspe.


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    #14
    Annasopra
    Registered Users Posts: 40,924 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra


    What's with all the comparing of exam resultts in this thread? who cares what results you got or the kid on tv got?

    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



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    #15
    TaraFoxglove
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,057 ✭✭✭TaraFoxglove


    shadowninty wrote: »
    what result they get is little indication of intelligence

    For our degree, I would very much disagree, it was far from learning by rote, lots of independent thought required.


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    #16
    Annasopra
    Registered Users Posts: 40,924 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra


    TaraFoxglove wrote: »
    For our degree, I would very much disagree, it was far from learning by rote, lots of independent thought required.

    so what?

    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



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    #17
    coffee_cake
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Politics Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 81,309 CMod ✭✭✭✭coffee_cake


    Speaking from personal experience, intelligence and laziness make for average exam results. Exam results are a matter of hard work, not (just) intelligence.
    A child being bored to death throughout the schooling system will/may lose interest very easily and achieve very average results.
    So, enough of the exam results comparisons?


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    #18
    TaraFoxglove
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,057 ✭✭✭TaraFoxglove


    Johnnymcg wrote: »
    so what?

    No need to be aggressive. Someone made the point that exams aren't always a true indicator of intelligence and I was pointing out that my degree course was not just about exams so it is interesting to me that a former CTYI student was in my class and was nothing noteworthy, sitting around the middle of the pack in a course with much scope for independent thought through coursework. I just found it interesting and it would make me question how gifted some of people admitted to the CTYI really are. I think it's a valid musing. We are not all blinded by exam results, some of us do have other reasons to question things.


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    #19
    byhookorbycrook
    Moderators, Education Moderators, Regional South East Moderators Posts: 12,482 Mod ✭✭✭✭byhookorbycrook


    metrovelvet wrote: »
    I think parents of gifted children would be relieved for this to be recognised as would the many gifted children who spend their childhoods tortured with boredom in school.

    Time for an advocacy group.
    giftedkids advocate for children and support parents and teachers.


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    #20
    shadowninty
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,654 ✭✭✭shadowninty


    TaraFoxglove wrote: »
    just found it interesting and it would make me question how gifted some of people admitted to the CTYI really are.
    You need to be at least a bit gifted to get much higher marks than the average student with feck all work

    I really don't think the government does near enough for those who are a fair bit above average - there is way more fumding for kids sports etc than the gifted kids

    Im not sure I think streaming is the answer either, I think it might be detrimental to the less bright kids especially

    I also hate my streamed maths class - its so boring (not the subject really - more the students) and I find it hard to concentrate with 5 weeks to go

    I prefer classes where I'm at/near the top, maybe I'm just an asshole :o


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    #21
    metrovelvet
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,376 ✭✭✭metrovelvet


    TaraFoxglove wrote: »
    For our degree, I would very much disagree, it was far from learning by rote, lots of independent thought required.

    So was my degree, so are the degrees earned by Ivy league graduates. Could be high intelligence, could be shrewd competiveness, drive, or strategy on how to make your teacher happy.

    Not necessarily a sign of a gift.

    Gifted children suffer in ordinary schools because ordinary education is about the industrial age model of factory education, one size fits all. Kids on either end of the spectrum whether gifted or special needs, need more than average kids. The special needs kids are getting assistance, not enough but some. The gifted kids are left to fend for themselves and suffer.

    If people care about this country, they will care about and nurture its talent, because it is that talent which can make great contributions to the future and maybe we wont have mediocre idiots running it.


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    #22
    Quest
    Registered Users Posts: 53 ✭✭Quest


    Thought that programme was quite sad too.

    I think the point is that being 'gifted' (don't like that word but it's what people use) means that a child can pick things up much faster than others of the same age. It's a potential that doesn't necessarily lead to achievement. It SHOULD - but lots of these kids have come through years of not being challenged and not having that much in common with classmates: they disengage on lots of fronts and often miss out on learning skills they would get if they were only challenged. Hence lower results than might be expected are actually not all that uncommon.

    And in case anyone thinks I'm suggested these kids get 'elite' treatment - all they need is what every kid needs: education that is suited to their needs, challenges them appropriately and teaches them what they need to get on in the real world.

    Without this, the result is what you see in the documentary.


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    #23
    byhookorbycrook
    Moderators, Education Moderators, Regional South East Moderators Posts: 12,482 Mod ✭✭✭✭byhookorbycrook


    DES recognises exceptionally able children as having special needs , but won't resource any provision for them. We have been involved in a pilot scheme for EA children,which is now to be opened to other schools. It's amazing what the children can do,given any kind of a chance .

    http://missionv.ie/


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    #24
    Quest
    Registered Users Posts: 53 ✭✭Quest


    Wow - well done on Mission V initiative - this the way education should be!!!

    Very lucky schools and children who get to take part. :D


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    #25
    shadowninty
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,654 ✭✭✭shadowninty


    Quest wrote: »
    Wow - well done on Mission V initiative - this the way education should be!!!

    Very lucky schools and children who get to take part. :D

    yes, sounds very promising! :)

    Although I feel the biggest problem is at second level (the junior cycle at least) - that may be different to what others think


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    #26
    shawnee
    Registered Users Posts: 1,830 ✭✭✭shawnee


    Yes, I feel that it is an area that is seldom looked at. Again it is a one size fits all system. Has anyone any experience of the ctyi group in DCU. I believe they run Summer Courses and was thinking of enrolling my son :confused:


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    #27
    Hyzepher
    Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 4,659 Mod ✭✭✭✭Hyzepher


    Looking back i would have considered myself as a gifted child. I have a 210 IQ and a pretty crap leaving cert. I am now the father of two gifted children, one of which will be taking part in the CTYI programme for the first time over the coming weeks.

    I have seen the frustration my kids have with school. Boredom, indifference to repetitive learning, and basically being held back by the lowest common denominator. My eldest, 7, has voluntarily told me that he is bored and disruptive in school because that's the only outlet he has. Foreign children with English and kids with learning needs get preferential treatment and extra support while my children are left to fend for themselves.

    Trying to get support from the school is hard as although they may recognise the issue they are more or less slaves to the funding they receive and the directives handed down by the DoE.

    As parent we want the best for our kids and the way the country is heading we need to nurture the brightest for the future. At this point in their lives all they have is potential and without support they will either give up or fail to realise their true potential.

    I think some sort of levelling in primary school is required where children of the same ability are grouped together. It happens in secondary school with the honours/pass system and bringing it into primary may allow teachers to focus not only on the gifted kids but also on those who require support at the other end of the scale.


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    #28
    metrovelvet
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,376 ✭✭✭metrovelvet


    What they need are schools just for gifted children, where the concepts and strategies of conventional education are entirely reframed and rethought.

    Education itself needs an overhaul.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?vzDZFcDGpL4U

    An interesting perspective on education paradigms.


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