Formula 1 2014: Round 10 - German Grand Prix

Myrddin · 20-07-2014 3:07pm

Deleted User wrote: »

The time gap to the Mercs is pretty much as big as it's been all season.

Not to mention Williams & even arguably Red Bull have a superior package.

Gillespy · 20-07-2014 3:16pm

I hope we get to see Rosberg try and do what Hamilton did today. I think this is the third race Hamilton has fought his way through the field but never from as far back as 20th. Very impressive.

Bit dozy by Button but I think it was them gambling on the safety car that cost him second place. He'll wonder about the safety car too. Sutil trying to win him back?

Five wins to four now to Lewis. Great season so far. Gut feeling is only one man deserves the title but the points table doesn't lie.

Myrddin · 20-07-2014 3:18pm

Gillespy wrote: »

Gut feeling is only one man deserves the title but the points table doesn't lie.

It certainly doesn't. It doesn't tell the whole story either, Hamilton has an extra dnf due to no fault of his own too

lolie · 20-07-2014 3:45pm

[Deleted User] wrote: »

What is the point of Sutil?

I remember someone posted before the start of the season saying he was a really good driver.

20-07-2014 4:03pm

lolie wrote: »

I remember someone posted before the start of the season saying he was a really good driver.

If it was me I must've been drunk :P

Myrddin · 20-07-2014 4:05pm

Deleted User wrote: »

If it was me I must've been drunk :P

It was you actually, here's the quote:

Deleted User wrote:

What are you guys talking about? Sutil is one of the most consistent, skilled, & downright fastest drivers out there. In fact, I wouldn't be surprised to see him getting the better of Vettel, Alonso & Hamilton

See? Was definitely you.

20-07-2014 4:21pm

I'm trying to think when that was. Because I've gotten blackout drunk before and my typing doesn't that legible, I must've been on a whole other level of drunkenness when I said that.

flazio · 20-07-2014 4:52pm

I think the performance of the marshals needs to be looked at by the organisers, if marshals need to come out on track, even if it's off racing line, it should be under safety car conditions, I would argue that the safety car should have been out for the Tora Rossa fire, had any car missed the hairpin they would have ploughed straight into the stewards.

20-07-2014 5:13pm

Why there weren't 3/4 marshals on the inside of the track is the issue IMO.

Myrddin · 20-07-2014 5:17pm

Deleted User wrote: »

I'm trying to think when that was. Because I've gotten blackout drunk before and my typing doesn't that legible, I must've been on a whole other level of drunkenness when I said that.

Don't worry, it's me winding you up :P

Deleted User wrote:

I much prefer Hamilton over Button

On topic though, I was very surprised the Sutil incident didn't bring out the safety car...seemed a bit over the line with the marshals on track as they were

lolie · 20-07-2014 8:24pm

Alonso must have thought it was Webber in the red bull today at times.

Deleted User wrote: »

I'm trying to think when that was. Because I've gotten blackout drunk before and my typing doesn't that legible, I must've been on a whole other level of drunkenness when I said that.

It was Lightning that posted before the season started about Sutil being better than half the field.
To be fair to him it looks like the car is almost undriveable at times.

GarIT · 20-07-2014 8:46pm

Myrddin wrote: »

On topic though, I was very surprised the Sutil incident didn't bring out the safety car...seemed a bit over the line with the marshals on track as they were

Simples, the event organisers cheated to ensure Rosberg won, if there had been a safety car Hamilton would have had a decent chance.

20-07-2014 8:48pm

Myrddin wrote: »

Don't worry, it's me winding you up :P

I got that. :P

The lack of a safety car suited Hamilton, really can't see where the supposed conspiracy was.

Gillespy · 20-07-2014 8:53pm

How did it suit him? Bunched them up and race to the line with new tyres? Like Bahrain. What am I missing?

GarIT · 20-07-2014 8:53pm

Deleted User wrote: »

The lack of a safety car suited Hamilton, really can't see where the supposed conspiracy was.

If the safety car came out Hamilton would have been right behind Rosberg. Rosberg said himself post race that he was really worried about a safety car with the car stopped on track which any other time would have gotten a safety car. The FIA also has a history of using safety cars and decisions that could go wither way to favour the home favourite.

GarIT · 20-07-2014 9:03pm

Larbre34 wrote: »

Who's this joker? Id rather Schumacher do the interviews the way he is now

What's that supposed to mean?

Mike Litoris · 20-07-2014 9:24pm

GarIT wrote: »

What's that supposed to mean?

Think Frankie Boyle.

Ghost Train · 20-07-2014 10:52pm

The marshals running cross the track did look a bit risky, did race control okay it I wonder, you wouldn't want one of them tripping on the curb or something

But I think Hamilton probably would have got caught out if safety car came out since he needed to stop and others wouldnt have

Frank Bullitt · 20-07-2014 11:49pm

Good race and some good battles all over the place, it might be one team dominant but its still grew to watch.

21-07-2014 1:32am

Rosberg also would have pitted and would've had a few cars between himself and Hamilton. Mercedes dropped the ball by putting Hamilton onto the super softs for a long last stint.

Jordan 199 · 21-07-2014 1:52am

14 point difference between Rosberg and Hamilton in the standings. I want to see Lewis win this weekend at Hungary before the break.

Oblomov · 21-07-2014 9:44am

Rosberg needs to suffer a mechanical failure at Hungary for Hamilton to take the lead.
The mercedes team tactician had worked out that Hamilton would finish either third or fourth. So, everything went to plan. The need for mercedes to appear dominant would have needed a 1-2 finish, without a mechanical failure with the Williams an unlikely finish.

The different in the two personalities, Rosberg and Hamilton, with the former expressing his pleasure that Hamilton managed to finish on the podium despite his bad luck. Hamilton made no such gesture or comment.

Hamilton behaviour at the Champagne spraying clearly showed the gap between the two drivers.

British driver winning the British GP as his team mate suffers a breakdown. A German winning the German GP and suddenly it's suspect.

Bah Humbug

Zcott · 21-07-2014 9:48am

Oblomov wrote: »

The different in the two personalities, Rosberg and Hamilton, with the former expressing his pleasure that Hamilton managed to finish on the podium despite his bad luck. Hamilton made no such gesture or comment.

Hamilton behaviour at the Champagne spraying clearly showed the gap between the two drivers.

British driver winning the British GP as his team mate suffers a breakdown. A German winning the German GP and suddenly it's suspect.

Bah Humbug

That's half the reason I'm supporting Rosberg this year - he's shown himself to be very classy, acknowledge Lewis and hasn't played the victim when things haven't gone his way.

v3ttel · 21-07-2014 10:52am

flazio wrote: »

had any car missed the hairpin they would have ploughed straight into the stewards.

So how many cars went that far off during the race? Zero. Or in Canada, where there is a similar hairpin? Zero.

A car would have to have total brake & steering failure to pull that far off track, at that angle.

flazio wrote: »

if marshals need to come out on track, even if it's off racing line, it should be under safety car conditions

Non-sense. We're already seen this season, that there are plenty of situations where marshals can safely retrieve debris in a safe way, with correct timing.

Slutmonkey57b · 21-07-2014 10:59am

I think I've said this before, but Massa seems to think that other drivers should make their cars disappear when he's making a move. He regularly gets far too close or comes in far too fast, then blames the other driver when contact comes. The Perez incident was another case in point: Perez was incorrect to move in the braking zone, but Massa got far closer to the right than he needed to in order to make a pass up the inside, and didn't leave any room for manoeuvre for either himself or Perez. If he'd misjudged his braking, which he often does, he could easily have speared Vettel and/or Perez even if Perez had stuck to the correct line.

v3ttel · 21-07-2014 11:01am

Oblomov wrote: »

The different in the two personalities, Rosberg and Hamilton, with the former expressing his pleasure that Hamilton managed to finish on the podium despite his bad luck. Hamilton made no such gesture or comment.

Hamilton behaviour at the Champagne spraying clearly showed the gap between the two drivers.

British driver winning the British GP as his team mate suffers a breakdown. A German winning the German GP and suddenly it's suspect.

Bah Humbug

It's for this reason I'd like to see Rosberg win it.

"Another gift for Nico". Lewis must have a very short memory, as in the very last race, Rosberg had gearbox failure while leading. That's motor racing.

"I think you know why" the safety car wasn't deployed. The insinuation was very clear. Then when he is called on it by the reporter, he tries to deny what he meant.

The safety car should have absolutely been deployed, but he really doesn't help himself with his comments.

Gillespy · 21-07-2014 11:18am

Rosberg didn't cover himself in glory earlier in the season when he was coming second the Hamilton week after week. His celebrations after getting pole in Monaco wasn't classy either. Hamilton has a right to feel a bit hard done by, Australia, Canada, Germany and you could even add Monaco to the list of things to go against him. He said he doesn't want good luck he just doesn't want bad luck. Which is fair enough. One DNF doesn't balance it up.

Slutmonkey57b · 21-07-2014 12:39pm

Lewis' reliability problems have been very unfortunate all right. Without them, he'd probably be leading the championship by a bigger margin than Rosberg is now. However he's his own worst enemy in and out of the car, and he's made a few very brain-fade mistakes this year.

I wonder sometimes if he tries to be flippant or funny in his comments but it fails to come across. Often, however, he's clearly trying to set a media agenda and falling. Difficult to tell which, in this case.

antodeco · 21-07-2014 3:40pm

Away again for this race, and its the first race of the past 2 seasons I missed in its entirety :-(

_rebelkid · 21-07-2014 3:42pm

antodeco wrote: »

Away again for this race, and its the first race of the past 2 seasons I missed in its entirety :-(

You and me both. Watching it back now.

v3ttel · 21-07-2014 4:51pm

Gillespy wrote: »

Rosberg didn't cover himself in glory earlier in the season when he was coming second the Hamilton week after week. His celebrations after getting pole in Monaco wasn't classy either.

Non-sense IMHO.

"I strongly dislike coming second to Lewis"

vs

"We're not friends."
The strong implication that Rosberg deliberately made a mistake to take pole in Monaco
"I can't believe you didn't call me in" (when the team protocol of the leader having his call on stops suited him perfectly fine when he won the previous 4 races).
"Nico's not really German"
"Another gift for Nico"
"You know why <the safety car wasn't deployed>" (if Nico wasn't really German, then how does he has suspicions of foul play?

)

I don't have a bias towards either driver. There are probably at least half a dozen drivers (Button, Vettel, Riccardo, Kimi, Hulkenberg, Alonso, Messa, etc) I'd prefer to see win the title before Rosberg or Lewis.

I definitely prefer how Rosberg has conducted himself this season, and on that basis, I'd prefer him to go on and win it.

Gillespy · 21-07-2014 5:31pm

His demeanuer on the stage in many of those races was no different to what Lewis is being critised for. He was very reserved on the podium in Silverstone and mentioned how disappointed he was Nico failed and they didn't get the one two. That podium display puts yesterday's into perspective.

We all know how Lewis works by now. He is moody one minute and fine the next. He says things he shouldn't and a lot of it is taken out of context also. Look at Alonso lauding Ricciardo yesterday, nice gesture but really it's just a dig at Seb. Did the same praising Massa, a dig at Kimi. I don't believe Hamilton really plays those games, at least not on purpose. And if he is, he should stop because if he ever manages to put a normal weekend together he wins and Rosberg comes second.

ScumLord · 21-07-2014 5:36pm

Zcott wrote: »

That's half the reason I'm supporting Rosberg this year - he's shown himself to be very classy, acknowledge Lewis and hasn't played the victim when things haven't gone his way.

I don't mind which one wins it, both are deserving based on their talents. Wouldn't mind seeing a new champion in Rosberg but I don't hold anything against Hamilton for being so invested in winning.

I do some online sim racing and can get into fits of emotion so can appreciate that the worst possible time to get interviewed would be after a race when your brain is still operating at 200 miles per hour and you're pumped full of adrenaline. I don't think your average person would be able to control themselves any better. He's not interested in getting good results, I'm delighted with myself when I finish top ten but he must see himself as past that stage, all that's left for someone at his level is winning the championship. Finishing anywhere other than first is a failure to someone who believes they can win every race.

Hamilton is a racer, he showed it in Germany, he made a fantastic comeback and you can't argue with the lads skill. He's upset when he doesn't win and I don't hold that against him either. I'm sure if you interviewed him after the season is over when he's not so invested he'd be nowhere near as sore about the outcome of races.

Myrddin · 21-07-2014 6:17pm

ScumLord wrote: »

so can appreciate that the worst possible time to get interviewed would be after a race when your brain is still operating at 200 miles per hour and you're pumped full of adrenaline. I don't think your average person would be able to control themselves any better

I fully agree. Hamilton just isn't good at being a corporate robot, unlike many of the other guys. Sure enough, at times he can come across as a spoiled brat...but other times, like Silverstone, he was sobbing with sheer delight. Whether anyone is a fan or not, at the very least he's real...he fcuks up, he makes mistakes, sometimes he's inspired & sometimes he's just downright class...one thing he isn't, unlike his team mate Rosberg, is a dull corporate robot.

Slutmonkey57b · 21-07-2014 9:35pm

I think there's a difference between not being a dull a corporate robot, and being a self obsessed rude dickhead though. Avoiding one doesn't excuse falling into the trap of being the other.

Myrddin · 21-07-2014 9:38pm

Slutmonkey57b wrote: »

I think there's a difference between not being a dull a corporate robot, and being a self obsessed rude dickhead though.

There is, it's called emotion

Myrddin · 21-07-2014 10:01pm

Just to clarify, I'm not excusing Lewis' behavior/demeanor...I simply prefer to see drivers being, well, 'real', in these high pressure high stake environments. Sure Lewis lets himself down, but he makes up for it by making things interesting, for me anyway. Give me 22 Lewis Hamiltons over 22 Nico Rosbergs any day of the week.

The rivalries wouldn't be the same without personalities coming to the front. Vettel can be the biggest whinger out there at times, almost going as far as expecting other teams cars to move out of his way...but that's emotion again coming to the surface...it's exciting, it's real, it's natural...we mightn't agree with the sentiment behind the emotion, but at least it's there.

A grid full of Rosbergs & Chiltons would make for one dull-ass sport. At times I can empathize with Lewis, he's getting roasted on bad luck it seems. At other times I cringe for him, because I know an hour later he's going to regret what he might have said. But that's the name of the game in a sport that breeds sheer competition.

Alonso too can be as bad as anyone, but at the end of the day, he's that bit better at saying the right thing than Lewis is...but those core emotions are contained within ALL the drivers. Some just bottle it up & mask it with artificial smiles & scripted/learned responses. I know which I'd prefer to hear.

Mike Litoris · 21-07-2014 10:03pm

Pair of Dickheads

Oblomov · 21-07-2014 10:28pm

The latest Lewis outburst is that " Hamilton says he 'never liked to win easily'"

Hamilton LOVES to win, regardless how it is achieved. All the time his Father managed his career, Hamilton had the almost perfect sound bites, with many people saying he was too good to be true. With his new agents, the need to be in the limelight has grown to excessive proportions.

How ever you box it, label or call it, Hamilton is the very worsts of Drama Queens and appears to milk every opportunity to be the centre of attention. he lacks a sense of humour and moved from the "Corporate Robot" to the "Raging Diva",

Hamilton, with McLaren, was rushing to the stewards before even telling the team over minor issues. That got him rapped knuckles from his mentor, Ron dennis.

Hamilton, really must keep up on his meds.

Oblomov · 21-07-2014 10:39pm

Mike Litoris · 21-07-2014 10:42pm

Which tats are you looking at?

Gillespy · 21-07-2014 10:46pm

Outburst? They are just words sportspeople say. They mean nothing.

v3ttel · 22-07-2014 11:50am

ScumLord wrote: »

I don't mind which one wins it, both are deserving based on their talents. Wouldn't mind seeing a new champion in Rosberg but I don't hold anything against Hamilton for being so invested in winning.

I do some online sim racing and can get into fits of emotion so can appreciate that the worst possible time to get interviewed would be after a race when your brain is still operating at 200 miles per hour and you're pumped full of adrenaline. I don't think your average person would be able to control themselves any better. He's not interested in getting good results, I'm delighted with myself when I finish top ten but he must see himself as past that stage, all that's left for someone at his level is winning the championship. Finishing anywhere other than first is a failure to someone who believes they can win every race.

Hamilton is a racer, he showed it in Germany, he made a fantastic comeback and you can't argue with the lads skill. He's upset when he doesn't win and I don't hold that against him either. I'm sure if you interviewed him after the season is over when he's not so invested he'd be nowhere near as sore about the outcome of races.

Looks like I draw the line differently. I do some racing semi regularly. When the visor is down, and it's the heat of the moment, it's a lot different. There's a big distinction between having the helmet on and off. The Alonso/Vettel back and forth on the radio in Silverstone is a good example of that. We all know the constant radio messages, but afterwards:

Vettel: "It got a bit silly"
Alonso: "I guess it sounded funny"

Things seem a lot worse in the heat of battle, but there's a very clear distinction there. The main issue for me is that Lewis is one of the only drivers who doesn't seem to make that. When he isn't winning, every thing and every one is against him, and it's all a big drama, both on and off track. He finds it hard not to come out with the most cringeworthy things.

I'd mostly give everyone a free pass when the visor is down (within reason), but there's no need to be a classless afterwards, or talk non-sense about the guy who is beating you.

Gillespy wrote: »

They are just words sportspeople say. They mean nothing.

That is an incredibly piss poor justification for anything. Just awful.

Myrddin · 22-07-2014 11:59am

v3ttel wrote: »

Things seem a lot worse in the heat of battle, but there's a very clear distinction there. The main issue for me is that Lewis is one of the only drivers who doesn't seem to make that. When he isn't winning, every thing and every one is against him, and it's all a big drama, both on and off track. He finds it hard not to come out with the most cringeworthy things.

I'd definitely agree with some of what you're saying. When the visor is up/helmet off, it's like Hamilton just switches over to 'sportsman' mode a fair bit later than he should. That, I grant. However, most (not all) of the time Hamilton appears to be 'sulking' looks to me like he's pissed off at himself, not the world. From my perspective, he looked down-beat on the podium in Germany because of the incident he had with Button...that effectively took 2nd place off him as it caused premature tire wear on the front left...& he knew that. It was his fault, he messed up & he knew it. I don't think he was expecting to win, I really don't...but 2nd was his goal & he ruined his own chances of getting it.

The safety car incident was madness, & while maybe he went about expressing his feelings on it the wrong way...I still find it hard to believe a safety car wasn't deployed over the Sutil incident. There was a car stalled in the middle of the track, granted off-line...but there have been far, far lesser reasons given to deploy safety cars in recent times...but not this time. It was inconsistent with current trends, & it does make you wonder.

ScumLord · 22-07-2014 12:14pm

Oblomov wrote: »

How ever you box it, label or call it, Hamilton is the very worsts of Drama Queens and appears to milk every opportunity to be the centre of attention. he lacks a sense of humour and moved from the "Corporate Robot" to the "Raging Diva",

Granted I don't follow the media train that happens before and after a race, I just watch the race, most the time I don't even bother with the build up or post race analysis because it can get very nit picky and speculative. So all I see is the after race interview and the podiums. In that Hamilton looks disappointed when he loses, I don't see him being a drama queen, he does have a child like air of disappointment about him but I've never really seen any drama other than the odd spur of the moment comment.

We also don't know that this drama isn't totally engineered to bring in headlines. Two drivers at war make headlines. The media seem more interested in the Hamilton/Rosberg drama than they do with the results of the race.

Hamilton, with McLaren, was rushing to the stewards before even telling the team over minor issues. That got him rapped knuckles from his mentor, Ron dennis.

**** happens, I don't expect him to be the model employee all the time, he's prone to mistakes and outburst the same as any other person.

At the end of the day he's a driver, he was more than likely hired to win the championship. So I can see why he's disappointed with himself.

If Senna was around today he would be universally hated by the standards we hold modern drivers up to.

Gillespy · 22-07-2014 12:22pm

v3ttel wrote: »

That is an incredibly piss poor justification for anything. Just awful.

It's an innocuous thing to say. Whether anyone believes it or not is another thing. He isn't the first sportsperson I've heard saying something like that. So be it if that constitutes an outburst and warrants mocking and ridicule.

Formula 1 2014: Round 10 - German Grand Prix

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