Small holding & dairying

snoozin boozin · 21-07-2014 1:11pm #1

My question is how much land and how many cows would you need to enter into dairy farming. Realistically would you need a herd of 60 plus cows.

visatorro · 21-07-2014 1:21pm

100 dry acres. 200 wet acres

Sam Kade · 21-07-2014 1:34pm

Plenty still milking with 50 acres and less.

snoozin boozin · 21-07-2014 1:36pm

Sam Kade wrote: »

Plenty still milking with 50 acres and less.

These guys milking on less then 50 acres what size herd would that support

Greengrass1 · 21-07-2014 1:43pm

snoozin boozin wrote: »

These guys milking on less then 50 acres what size herd would that support

These guys wouldn't have many loans I'd imagine. 40-50 cows would give you a nice living if you had no loans to service

snoozin boozin · 21-07-2014 1:45pm

Greengrass1 wrote: »

These guys wouldn't have many loans I'd imagine. 40-50 cows would give you a nice living if you had no loans to service

If it was a start up from scratch what would the inital investment be tho for a small milking parlour

_Brian · 21-07-2014 1:46pm

I know of at least half dozen lads starting into dairy next year with less than 20 cows. Some are testing the water and some are happy if they can get away making €4-500 a cow profit..

One chap I was talking to said he'd be better making €400 a cow from dairy with 20 cows than nothing or loosing money at beef..
These lads are thinking if average dairy men at the moment are making ~€800 a cow, while they can work towards this €400 is a good starting point.. Most, but not all would have milked in the past.

Greengrass1 · 21-07-2014 1:52pm

snoozin boozin wrote: »

If it was a start up from scratch what would the inital investment be tho for a small milking parlour

60 bare acres? No parlour no shed no road ways no grass?
10unit parlour with shed and bulk tank.
20k maybe
Roadways 200e/m
Sow 60ac grass @300ac 18k if you get all work done for you
Outdoor cubicle and lagoon 30k
You still have to put in water system. Electricity
And buy your cows then.
Lot of debt there

snoozin boozin · 21-07-2014 2:39pm

Greengrass1 wrote: »

60 bare acres? No parlour no shed no road ways no grass?
10unit parlour with shed and bulk tank.
20k maybe
Roadways 200e/m
Sow 60ac grass @300ac 18k if you get all work done for you
Outdoor cubicle and lagoon 30k
You still have to put in water system. Electricity
And buy your cows then.
Lot of debt there

Have 35 acres grassland already slatted shed and hay sheds roadways in place too. Have a stock level of 30 heffiers at present that will be sold on in the autum.

lakill Farm · 21-07-2014 5:22pm

had 2 clients move from suckler to spring calving in 2014

one with 50 heifers and another with 25 cows and another 15 in autumn.

was kinda a small cheque in February for them, and again March but in April they said it was great.

so 50 cows isn't bad. its one cows profit a week for a normal wage.

be a long time getting it from selling weanlings. you would probably need 70 plus weanlings depending on overheads and committements

draiochtanois · 21-07-2014 5:24pm

This post has been deleted.

moy83 · 21-07-2014 5:47pm

lakill Farm wrote: »

had 2 clients move from suckler to spring calving in 2014

one with 50 heifers and another with 25 cows and another 15 in autumn.

was kinda a small cheque in February for them, and again March but in April they said it was great.

so 50 cows isn't bad. its one cows profit a week for a normal wage.

be a long time getting it from selling weanlings. you would probably need 70 plus weanlings depending on overheads and committements

Can you give anymore info on how its panning out for them ? Do they plan on staying at those numbers or can they expand
Did they spend much getting started or had they to get quota this year ?

mf240 · 21-07-2014 8:31pm

Greengrass1 wrote: »

60 bare acres? No parlour no shed no road ways no grass?
10unit parlour with shed and bulk tank.
20k maybe
Roadways 200e/m
Sow 60ac grass @300ac 18k if you get all work done for you
Outdoor cubicle and lagoon 30k
You still have to put in water system. Electricity
And buy your cows then.
Lot of debt there

Second hand palour and bulk tank and a ring feeder. Everything else can wait.

For that size of a set up you cant afford to borrow anything.

Greengrass1 · 21-07-2014 8:33pm

mf240 wrote: »

Second hand palour and bulk tank and a ring feeder. Everything else can wait.

For that size of a set up you cant afford to borrow anything.

Actually seen a lad in UK who out wintered his cows on his collecting yard. Bought a mat of easy fix to cover whole yard.
Scraped it down every day. Worked well

lakill Farm · 21-07-2014 8:35pm

moy83 wrote: »

Can you give anymore info on how its panning out for them ? Do they plan on staying at those numbers or can they expand
Did they spend much getting started or had they to get quota this year ?

50 hopes to get to 60 and buy all replacements and sell all calves

40 is just going to stay at 40 and sell all calves

2nd hand parlours, 2nd tanks and DIY sheds around parlour and tank . low input as both sold suckler cows and bought in calf heifers

kerrycow · 21-07-2014 9:19pm

The Glenisk website has articles on a few of their producers. One of the farmers, James Howard, says he milks 13 cows for Glenisk

(tried to post a link but not here long enough to be allowed)

I'm surprised they'd send a lorry to collect that much milk.

snoozin boozin · 21-07-2014 10:34pm

Would it be possible to hold down a full time job too. Could you milk @ say 6 in the morning and 6 in the evening.

tomwaterford · 21-07-2014 10:47pm

_Brian wrote: »

I know of at least half dozen lads starting into dairy next year with less than 20 cows. Some are testing the water and some are happy if they can get away making €4-500 a cow profit..

One chap I was talking to said he'd be better making €400 a cow from dairy with 20 cows than nothing or loosing money at beef..
These lads are thinking if average dairy men at the moment are making ~€800 a cow, while they can work towards this €400 is a good starting point.. Most, but not all would have milked in the past.

not wanting to bust a hole in everything here
(wasn't around then...so may not have full story)

what is still spoken about around here is the way co-ops stopped collecting from smaller producers when milking parlors started to become popular....that being said 60 cows with no loans would leave a nice income

Sam Kade · 21-07-2014 10:50pm

kerrycow wrote: »

The Glenisk website has articles on a few of their producers. One of the farmers, James Howard, says he milks 13 cows for Glenisk

(tried to post a link but not here long enough to be allowed)

I'm surprised they'd send a lorry to collect that much milk.

Ther's a farmer supplying Dairygold and he's only milking 14 cows.

tomwaterford · 21-07-2014 10:51pm

snoozin boozin wrote: »

Would it be possible to hold down a full time job too. Could you milk @ say 6 in the morning and 6 in the evening.

plenty doing it....would want to be a very time-efficient set up

those I know doing it...work milking in other places...so really suits them

sandydan · 21-07-2014 11:00pm

Sam Kade wrote: »

Ther's a farmer supplying Dairygold and he's only milking 14 cows.

lot of farmers delivering milk to collection points around cork, know farmers milked cows and worked off farm myself included , got up at 4.30 in morning and milked ,again in evening at around 6ish for years.good supplement to earnings off farm.also great interest for kids besides having them cycling around roads getting up to no good. if not overstocked you will do fine, a lot of good milking parlour machines to be had reasonably priced.and tanks too.

Injuryprone · 21-07-2014 11:07pm

snoozin boozin wrote: »

Would it be possible to hold down a full time job too. Could you milk @ say 6 in the morning and 6 in the evening.

Cows can be milked anytime, timing just depends on yourself. 2 things to think about though, long days like that can get tiresome after a while and you'd have to have some backup plan at calving time.

jimmy G M · 21-07-2014 11:11pm

snoozin boozin wrote: »

Would it be possible to hold down a full time job too. Could you milk @ say 6 in the morning and 6 in the evening.

What about once a day milking? Would there be much of a fall in milk yield vs twice per day? Wud costs be any lower?

lakill Farm · 21-07-2014 11:13pm

I have an uncle and he milking 35 and spring calving and working 5 days 9-6pm.

He is a savage man to work in all fairness but likewise probably not the best man to invest to make life easier for himself.

CluanBomb · 21-07-2014 11:22pm

snoozin boozin wrote: »

Would it be possible to hold down a full time job too. Could you milk @ say 6 in the morning and 6 in the evening.

I often look at farms split between brothers and think would they not benefit from doing something like this together and working too, can split the workload!

moy83 · 21-07-2014 11:55pm

CluanBomb wrote: »

I often look at farms split between brothers and think would they not benefit from doing something like this together and working too, can split the workload!

I don't know how many brothers could work together without rowing over silly things though . I certainly couldn't work with my brother . We get on fine but wouldn't like to be sharing a workload with him:D

milkprofit · 22-07-2014 8:28am

jimmy G M wrote: »

What about once a day milking? Would there be much of a fall in milk yield vs twice per day? Wud costs be any lower?

20 PER CENT DROP IN YIELD

_Brian · 22-07-2014 8:43am

moy83 wrote: »

I don't know how many brothers could work together without rowing over silly things though . I certainly couldn't work with my brother . We get on fine but wouldn't like to be sharing a workload with him:D

Our part time farm is partnership with the brother.
I'd say it's very successful but were quite similar people and both easy going. Works well when neither wants to exert their will too much. It's great knowing when your away things are in good hands. We each bring different skills and it's god crack.

I could see particularly for a dairy enterprise it would be a great set up if it worked.

I have another brother and he has little interest in farming and it wouldn't work with him.

jimmy G M · 22-07-2014 8:45am

milkprofit wrote: »

20 PER CENT DROP IN YIELD

Ok, thx. Any idea if cost such as meal etc are lower? I am just wondering if it might be an option for someone working full time? Milking once per day would certainly shorten the day.

Brown Podzol · 22-07-2014 8:48am

jimmy G M wrote: »

What about once a day milking? Would there be much of a fall in milk yield vs twice per day? Wud costs be any lower?

Comprehensive study here presented in PowerPoint style. Seems cow type is important and output could be similar to twice a day in milk solid terms.

http://www.wjcb.wildapricot.org/Resources/Documents/230pm%20Claire%20Phyn.pdf

jimmy G M · 22-07-2014 9:33am

Brown Podzol wrote: »

Comprehensive study here presented in PowerPoint style. Seems cow type is important and output could be similar to twice a day in milk solid terms.

http://www.wjcb.wildapricot.org/Resources/Documents/230pm%20Claire%20Phyn.pdf

Thx, interesting stuff. Mite be an option for those who have off farm income?

Something I might even consider myself if suckler & dairy income continue along current pattern, when kids get a little older. OP my apologies for having dragged thread a little off topic.

snoozin boozin · 22-07-2014 10:08am

jimmy G M wrote: »

Thx, interesting stuff. Mite be an option for those who have off farm income?

Something I might even consider myself if suckler & dairy income continue along current pattern, when kids get a little older. OP my apologies for having dragged thread a little off topic.

Thats ok i have found all the replys and info provided very helpfull. As like many i am considering switching to dairy with a heard of approx 20/25 cows. I was trying to establish if it would be fessable while also working full time. The info here has helped

Greengrass1 · 22-07-2014 10:42am

snoozin boozin wrote: »

Thats ok i have found all the replys and info provided very helpfull. As like many i am considering switching to dairy with a heard of approx 20/25 cows. I was trying to establish if it would be fessable while also working full time. The info here has helped

The next questioned you need to ask now which type of cow do you go for?
A big milky ho that will put out 600kgs of solids @4.2/kg
Or a jex that will put out 550kgs of ssolids @5.2/kg

Timmaay · 22-07-2014 11:10am

Would milking every 16 hours work for a part time person? Just hire a milker for the midday milking, anyone who does full time milk relief would problem be happy to get an extra milking at mid day when they usually are free. It would be only 4 days a week that you need to hire the milker for, so won't break the bank. Every other day you then milk at 6am and 10am.

Panch18 · 22-07-2014 11:23am

Timmaay wrote: »

Would milking every 16 hours work for a part time person? Just hire a milker for the midday milking, anyone who does full time milk relief would problem be happy to get an extra milking at mid day when they usually are free. It would be only 4 days a week that you need to hire the milker for, so won't break the bank. Every other day you then milk at 6am and 10am.

I think you'd want to be off your head to milk cows at 10pm on any kind of a regular basis

jaymla627 · 22-07-2014 11:52am

Greengrass1 wrote: »

The next questioned you need to ask now which type of cow do you go for?
A big milky ho that will put out 600kgs of solids @4.2/kg
Or a jex that will put out 550kgs of ssolids @5.2/kg

Greengrass a kilo of milk solids is a kilo of milk solids where are you coming up with this differance of a euro in the solids even on a+b-c a euro differance would be almost unheard off, also just wondering how many 550 kg established solids per cow per year crossbred herd you have visited

Greengrass1 · 22-07-2014 12:34pm

jaymla627 wrote: »

Greengrass a kilo of milk solids is a kilo of milk solids where are you coming up with this differance of a euro in the solids even on a+b-c a euro differance would be almost unheard off, also just wondering how many 550 kg established solids per cow per year crossbred herd you have visited

On phone pressed 4 instead of 5.
I have them
I have 600kg 3/4 needs too,

keep going · 27-07-2014 11:30am

Just alittle add on to this thread , yesterday I met a german couple non holidays when I was bringing home the cows so we got talking.they told me they weere farming near Dortmund in germany and they had 12 cows in organic milk. The conversation went on and eventually they told me there weere 4 families living off the farm, that grew vegetables , all the feed for the animals and some tillage sales.so it put me thinking, people often ask here is it worth milking 30 or 40 cows or whatever agribusiness on a small scale when really they should be asking how much do they need to live or what do they want out of life.these people seem to be doingfine but obviously there cant have been alot of money.they were getting 1.20 a litre for the milk and sold the veg direct in a market

exercise is the antidote · 27-07-2014 12:19pm

I know a fella that lives off 80-100acres of Tillage every year. He has the same tractor and plough the last 20 years. He ploughs, fits the land, spreads fertiliser and sprays. everything else is done by a contractor.

MFdaveIreland · 27-07-2014 2:06pm

great thread here lads and ladies. I asked a question similar to some of the topics on this thread about working 9-5 and milking as well if any of you have any experience. Also, what is the smallest acreage that you know runs a dairy just out of curiosity

frazzledhome · 27-07-2014 2:13pm

moy83 wrote: »

I don't know how many brothers could work together without rowing over silly things though . I certainly couldn't work with my brother . We get on fine but wouldn't like to be sharing a workload with him:D

This is an Irish thing I think, could be wrong. The most successful dairy business I know is two brothers in partnership. They are totally focused on their business and view it as such. Totally dismiss splitting their business.

They focus on their strengths. They have created a great economy if scale be concentrating on the business.

frazzledhome · 27-07-2014 2:18pm

jaymla627 wrote: »

Greengrass a kilo of milk solids is a kilo of milk solids where are you coming up with this differance of a euro in the solids even on a+b-c a euro differance would be almost unheard off, also just wondering how many 550 kg established solids per cow per year crossbred herd you have visited

I can list three off the top of my head. Stocked at 3per ha, 1650/ ha sold. Unfortunately mine isn't one of them.

Greengrass1 · 27-07-2014 6:33pm

frazzledhome wrote: »

I can list three off the top of my head. Stocked at 3per ha, 1650/ ha sold. Unfortunately mine isn't one of them.

How many yrs have they been crossbred?

frazzledhome · 27-07-2014 6:34pm

Greengrass1 wrote: »

How many yrs have they been crossbred?

8-10, came from extreme Hol

Greengrass1 · 27-07-2014 6:37pm

frazzledhome wrote: »

8-10, came from extreme Hol

Have herd ogmf lads in England feeding 1000kgs and pushing out 700+ KGS

trixi2011 · 27-07-2014 6:47pm

Greengrass1 wrote: »

Have herd ogmf lads in England feeding 1000kgs and pushing out 700+ KGS

Yip have seen xbreed herds doing 700, 2 of the mates done 550 a cow this year on 600kgs palm kernel/rolled barley. The average weight of the cows was only 490kg

Greengrass1 · 27-07-2014 6:48pm

trixi2011 wrote: »

Yip have seen xbreed herds doing 700, 2 of the mates done 550 a cow this year on 600kgs palm kernel/rolled barley. The average weight of the cows was only 490kg

Them cows are bringing in a lot of money. 100 if them would be be nice

EamonKilkenny · 27-07-2014 6:58pm

We are milking once a day here this year due to quota. I have often thought that it would be ideal for an off farm job. I go for cows at 6.30 and have them milking by 7am and parlor washed and ready for next day by 8.45-9am. They are slower milking obviously as putting out more in one milking. Cows really settled into it very quickly and wouldn't be bothered even at peak looking to come down in the evening.
It would make much more sense than coming home to milk in the evening after work as you would surely begin to hate it. At least then you have time to do a bit of herding and have some time for yourself and family in the evening.

jimmy G M · 27-07-2014 7:27pm

EamonKilkenny wrote: »

We are milking once a day here this year due to quota. I have often thought that it would be ideal for an off farm job. I go for cows at 6.30 and have them milking by 7am and parlor washed and ready for next day by 8.45-9am. They are slower milking obviously as putting out more in one milking. Cows really settled into it very quickly and wouldn't be bothered even at peak looking to come down in the evening.
It would make much more sense than coming home to milk in the evening after work as you would surely begin to hate it. At least then you have time to do a bit of herding and have some time for yourself and family in the evening.

Yeah, you'd imagine that the once a day milking would fit in more easily for those who have an off farm job. Looking at the earlier posts, output down 20%, costs down 25%, so maybe actual income/profit down 15% v twice a day milking.?

jimmy G M · 27-07-2014 7:29pm

@ Eamon, do you mind me asking how many you are milking?pm if you want. Thx.

EamonKilkenny · 27-07-2014 8:04pm

jimmy G M wrote: »

@ Eamon, do you mind me asking how many you are milking?pm if you want. Thx.

66 at the minute. On the output I think I was told the output would be back 30% but the solids would only be back 5% in total as milk solids were higher.

Small holding & dairying

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