Colette Fitzpatrick's (TV3) experience of Irish Maternity Care

SanFran07 · 06-01-2011 10:44pm #1

http://www.herald.ie/entertainment/around-town/i-paid-euro4k-on-top-of-a-hefty-health-insurance-premium-but-still-had-to-go-into-labour-on-a-trolley-2486442.html

What a horrific experience for a first time Mum. It's great that she is highlighting what has become a normal birth experience for lots of Irish women.

sarahlulu · 06-01-2011 10:49pm

This is why on my last two babies, i didn't bother going private, even though I am a member of VHI. i could not see the point in having to pay to get the exact same experience as I wouls have for free in the public system. Thankfully, i never had to go through labour on a trolley though.

January · 06-01-2011 10:58pm

I believe this is just an unfortunate side effect of the recession and the recent baby boom.

It's not like her waters were broken in full view of the rest of the hospital. They obviously forseen this happening because they had curtains that they could pull around for privacy.

I don't think private patients should get priority over public patients when it comes to being assigned a delivery room, it should all be first come, first served (as you were!), or most urgent cases in first.

As it were, I went public in the Coombe and my waters were broken in the labour ward with three other women who were getting the same thing done as me, and the same in the Rotunda the time before.

Das Kitty · 06-01-2011 11:36pm

She should have come on here and asked what to expect, she might not have expected so much.

I don't know what the fixation with the trolley is though, it's pretty much a bed on wheels. She had her baby safely, tbh she sounds more annoyed that she paid for what she could have gotten for free.

Jinxi · 07-01-2011 12:03am

Makes me glad I chose to go public!
It sounds like a conveyor belt. I cannot understand why there are no birthing centres like in UK and USA.

January · 07-01-2011 12:13am

There are, in Cavan and Drogheda, the Midwife Led Units, they're lovely, apparently!

wmpdd3 · 07-01-2011 1:15am

I spent the next two nights in a room with five other women and their five crying newborns. I didn't sleep the entire time I was there. I can't believe that any woman in the room did. By day three, I just couldn't cope with the lack of sleep and decided to leave early.

...sorry...Should't laugh!

Speaking to my American friend I got 6 days healthcare for free that would have cost me 20,000euro in America minimum.

In saying that she choose a birthing center for her 2nd / 3 rd and 4th child!

Squiggler · 07-01-2011 11:14am

And the possibility of that type of experience, or worse, is why I am planning a home birth, and plan to have any/all children at home if at all possible.

How is a woman supposed to relax and allow nature to take it's course in a stressful and exposed situation like that?

Each to their own I guess, but I'd completely freak out in that situation.

lynski · 07-01-2011 12:00pm

Das Kitty wrote: »

She should have come on here and asked what to expect, she might not have expected so much.

I don't know what the fixation with the trolley is though, it's pretty much a bed on wheels. She had her baby safely, tbh she sounds more annoyed that she paid for what she could have gotten for free.

trolley is the same as a hospital bed really, i think the problem was the trolley in the corridor. It horrifies me to think you could be expected to labor in such conditions. Think I would have gone home.
I would be p-ed off if I had paid a cent to experience what she did, and lets face it we have paid over and over again with our taxes, but wow I dread to think how I would react if I were put in that situation.
I labored in a single room last time and it was great. I was in a shared room previous time, but I was so out of it on drugs that I did not remember it in detail. both in coombe.
Really, really hoping for single room again this time.
I was also on a ward for 4 nights afterwards and was so stressed by that I cried uncontrollably on the fifth morning and they moved me to a private room for the rest of the week (CS and infection = 10 days in hospital).
My sis had a single ensuite room for labor, birth and stay, on the same corridor with all her friends from the ante-natal class, that the hospital had made sure were in the same ward, as much as possible. All free also in the UK.

Little My · 07-01-2011 3:17pm

Does anyone have any experience of giving birth in UCH Galway?

These stories are really starting to put me off having my baby here, and I suppose I could arrange to have the baby at home in Northern Ireland but it would be a hassle too.

I havent the option of going private or semi-private or whatever, so am currently signed up to combined care. Im getting the impression that care in the Uk is much better.

I'm not getting seen in Galway hospital until March. (I'll be 20 weeks by then) Would scans be sooner under the UK system?

Sheena99 · 07-01-2011 4:25pm

Congrats Little My, great news. I had my first child in UCHG in Dec 07 and am currently 19 weeks along with number 2. I had my 20 week scan last week and it was pretty busy. It was also pretty busy with my first when I went into labour and I had to wait a while for a delivery suite. Colette Fitzpatrick's story is quite possible in UCHG but the midwives are amazing, and once you get into the delivery suite, it's just you and them, and a very positive experience. I do know the baby boom is putting quite a bit of pressure on all areas of the maternity system so maybe look into the options at home as an insurance policy if you find your experience coming up to the birth negative. I would suggest signing up for the antenatal classes as soon as you could, you can chat to the PHN and get a tour of the facilities in the hospital, which could help you to decide. All the best for you and the baby, hope all goes well.

fiona stephanie · 07-01-2011 4:26pm

Im sorry that she feels she had such an awful experience!
But I just wanted to say that I had my 3 children in Holles street, and I honestly couldnt fault the care I recieved! I think she was just unlucky.

I went semi private through my health care provider, but I would never choose to go private as its such a huge amount of money and you are NEVER guaranteed a private room or special care just because you are a private patient, and rightly so. All expectant mothers recieve the same level of care regardless of wether you are public, semi or private! I think on a whole women are happy with the service in maternity hospitals.

Moonbeam · 07-01-2011 5:27pm

I hope it is more pleasant when I have my baba in the next week or 2.
Last time it was a wonderful experience and only person that kept me awake was baby girl.

Moonbeam · 07-01-2011 5:37pm

I hope it is more pleasant when I have my baba in the next week or 2.
Last time it was a wonderful experience and only person that kept me awake was baby girl.

Grawns · 07-01-2011 10:32pm

If you read it thoroughly Colette Fitzpatricks baby was put in intensive care immediately and stayed in hospital when she left. She was actually in the public ward ( sans infant) with all the new mums with their healthy babies gawping at her. Nightmare!

A good candidate for post natal depression probably.

Das Kitty · 07-01-2011 10:45pm

Grawns wrote: »

If you read it thoroughly Colette Fitzpatricks baby was put in intensive care immediately and stayed in hospital when she left. She was actually in the public ward ( sans infant) with all the new mums with their healthy babies gawping at her. Nightmare!

A good candidate for post natal depression probably.

There was woman in my ward like that. I felt awful when James was crying all night and she was just sitting on the side of her bed weeping.

. I got talking to her the next day though and we're still in touch.

January · 07-01-2011 10:48pm

I was on my own in the ward for one night without my baby and three others there with theirs... I was awake when the other babies were crying but sure what else could I do? You can't complain... you can't give out about a newborn crying... one mum actually slept through her baby crying.... she just turned over enough to ask the nurse to feed him for her, the nurse was busy so I did it... no big deal...

LegacyUser · 07-01-2011 10:51pm

I had a traumatic pregnancy, birth was okay, and afterwards was traumatic as i was on crutches after delivering a baby over 10lbs, so post natal depression did kick in, colette is definitely a candidate for it....looking back the experience kick started the depression and the depression was nothing like i could have ever imagined....an horrendous illness and i would not be here now only for my husband, my wonderful understanding husband. two years on we're all fine.

Vel · 07-01-2011 11:28pm

After I had my last baby in Holles Street, I was moved from the delivery room to an area just outside while I was waiting for a bed to come up in a ward. It was a small 'inner' area before you go out to the main corridor itself and there is a door between it and the main corridor. There were two tolleys there with curtains around them and I'm wondering if this is the area she means. While waiting, I could see the cleaners going in to clean and another couple then went in after that.

If it is this area, it certainly isn't the corridor in the sense that you might think, with people walking around. I certainly never saw any areas of the corridors where there were curtains hung up to screen beds.

wmpdd3 · 08-01-2011 3:04am

Thinking about it further the indignity of this:

Meanwhile, my waters were broken on the trolley. Any woman who's had this done will tell you how uncomfortable and painful it is.

Hopefully most hadn't the indignity of having it done on a trolley in a corridor. Because my baby had a bowel movement inside me, they also had to insert a tiny monitor on his head. All of this happened on the trolley, the midwives apologising, my husband doing his best to reassure me.

would replay over and over in your mind.

kco2010 · 08-01-2011 1:33pm

I am pg with my first and have friends who have had numerous little bundles and from all stories I just do not understand what would posess someone to pay such a large sum of cash for private when there are absolutely no guarantees at all. Its nuts! Unless you are going to the likes of Mount Carmel it sounds like semi or public is the way to go. I had an m/c last July and the staff in the Coombe were absolutely fantastic. No long waits to be seen at all and everyone was very helpful. Semi private with combined care if you can afford it seems like the a great middle of the road option! Having my waters broke in a corridor, I would not be impressed whether I was public,semi or private. We need more birthing centres in this country!

LegacyUser · 10-01-2011 6:38pm

I feel so sorry for her. What a terrible experience to have and so unnecessary. If only more women informed themselves about the option of home birth. I invite Collette to attend one of our support meetings to hear the positve stories from first time mum and also mums who have had all their babies born at home. Check out www.home birth .ie

Cat Melodeon · 10-01-2011 11:17pm

Good article by Collette. I don't feel she's being precious at all. It's good to have someone in the public eye highlighting how underfunded, underresourced and understaffed the maternity services are. I'm also amazed that they let someone with her profile be stuck on a trolley for so long - not nice for her but kind of reassuring to the rest of us that it is a fairly egalitarian system - even if that really means that it's equally bad for everyone!

I think the whole paying to go private thing is a bad idea to be honest. There are no guarantees and if you are private in a public hospital you really are just paying for a very expensive lottery ticket that gives you only slightly better odds than the free ticket public patients get.

And not all hospitals or birth experiences are like this - I can't praise the antenatal and delivery staff of St Luke's Kilkenny enough. Postnatal experience was not so good, but better than most I've heard of.

You should have come back home to Thurles and gone public to Kilkenny Hospital Colette!

Hannibal Smith · 11-01-2011 2:57pm

I have to agree with Colette Fitzpatrick. I think it's a disgrace that you pay E4k for private health insurance and end up having your waters broken on a flippin trolley in a corridor.

I went semi private and would have kicked up flippin murder if that happened to me, but if I'd forked over 4k, I'd be livid!

Yes they tell you your level of care is dependant on what's available at the time, but I don't think any woman would just take it on the chin if her waters were broken on a trolley in a corridor.

Das Kitty · 11-01-2011 3:22pm

Hannibal Smith wrote: »

I have to agree with Colette Fitzpatrick. I think it's a disgrace that you pay E4k for private health insurance and end up having your waters broken on a flippin trolley in a corridor.

I went semi private and would have kicked up flippin murder if that happened to me, but if I'd forked over 4k, I'd be livid!

Yes they tell you your level of care is dependant on what's available at the time, but I don't think any woman would just take it on the chin if her waters were broken on a trolley in a corridor.

The article says it was outside a delivery room behind a curtain. Another poster has mentioned that there is a curtained waiting area there in that hospital. It's no different from it happening in a curtained ward.

yosemite_sam · 11-01-2011 4:03pm

SanFran07 wrote: »

http://www.herald.ie/entertainment/around-town/i-paid-euro4k-on-top-of-a-hefty-health-insurance-premium-but-still-had-to-go-into-labour-on-a-trolley-2486442.html

What a horrific experience for a first time Mum. It's great that she is highlighting what has become a normal birth experience for lots of Irish women.

The very same thing happened to my wife with our first child, but she did not write an article in the paper about it

Banjaxed82 · 11-01-2011 4:05pm

It's an interesting discussion. Myself and my wife went semi-private in the Rotunda for our first. Horrible experience.

Went private (didn't have the money to be honest) in the Coombe for most recent birth. What a difference! The consultant was the nicest man I've ever met. Really understood pregnant women. The experience had its blips, but was light years ahead of Rotunda experience.

The amazing thing is I've heard stories of women having wonderful experiences in Holles Street and then others who wouldn't grace the place again. Likewise with the Rotunda and the Coombe. Public, Semi-private and Private - there seems to be no guarantee of optimum service. Only Mount Carmel seems to guarantee that!

In my experiences, I feel that women are treated in a shocking manner when it comes to child birth. The feel of the conveyor belt is unreal. Sometimes you'd swear that certain figures within these hospitals see no emotional connection in having a baby. I've heard too many stories from women who play down the bad experiences. You all deserve much more. Even a bit of post labour, bed-side manner wouldn't go a miss. How much does that cost?

Hannibal Smith · 11-01-2011 4:31pm

Das Kitty wrote: »

The article says it was outside a delivery room behind a curtain. Another poster has mentioned that there is a curtained waiting area there in that hospital. It's no different from it happening in a curtained ward.

I'm glad you think so :eek:

Das Kitty · 11-01-2011 4:35pm

Hannibal Smith wrote: »

I'm glad you think so :eek:

How is it different so?

Hannibal Smith · 11-01-2011 5:02pm

Das Kitty wrote: »

How is it different so?

If you think this is an acceptable way for a woman to be treated, fair enough. I'm not going to be sucked into an argument about it. Consider your own experience and what you went through and then remove all small elements of privacy and dignity that you tried to cling to. That's how it's different.

Jinxi · 11-01-2011 5:20pm

I think Hannibal is onto something. I think the standards we have come to accept are deplorable. The"Well at least it wasn't a trolley in the hall" mentality is from years of sub-standard care.
From reading the boards labouring in Irish hospital is akin to whelping in puppy farms.

Das Kitty · 11-01-2011 7:01pm

Hannibal Smith wrote: »

If you think this is an acceptable way for a woman to be treated, fair enough. I'm not going to be sucked into an argument about it. Consider your own experience and what you went through and then remove all small elements of privacy and dignity that you tried to cling to. That's how it's different.

I'm not trying to argue, I'm genuinely interested.

I view my experience as much the same as hers, the only difference I see is that what she was lying on was a trolley and I a bed. I was in a ward with 5 other women either in early labour or having emergency checks. My waters were broken there and I had 2 internal exams.

My only problem with what she's saying is that she's using the buzz words of trolley and corridor together in reality she seems to have had as much privacy as anyone else. There is no way a midwife would have broken her waters in an uncurtained area, and even if one did, she would not be praising them in the next paragraph.

I agree that our maternity system is not the best going, however it's not the worst by a million miles. Even though the privacy was not really there for me I found the care I got second to none from midwives and doctors alike. And for free!

I think the system in spite of its faults is a very good one. Comparing it to a puppy farm is hugely unfair.

I do think though instead of paying to go private people should put that cash into homebirthing where possible.

January · 11-01-2011 7:34pm

I have to agree with Das Kitty on this one, in early labour in both the Rotunda AND the Coombe I was on a bed in a room with 8 other women (Rotunda) and 4 other women (Coombe), the only thing separating us was the curtains around the bed, that was it, there were people coming and going while I was having my waters broken on both occasions but it didn't bother me.

I think back to my mothers experience 23 years ago in the Rotunda and she gave birth in the same room that I had my waters broken in with just a curtain separating her from the woman next to her giving birth! And you weren't allowed to have a partner in either!

No, it's not perfect, but I'm sure they wouldn't have broken her waters in a corridor (with a curtain around her, not like she was on show to the rest of the hospital) unless it was needed and I also think she should be very thankful too because she had meconium in her waters which could have been harmful to the baby if left for a longer period.

Jinxi · 11-01-2011 8:31pm

I did say "from reading on the boards" as I have no experience of it yet!
But from watching birthing shows in the UK where people have a large room to themselves to walk around and scream is they want, and by every instinct in me wanting the birth of my forst child to be a nice and private one, I still think that we are too accepting of the standard!
especially when midwife led clinics have been proven to be nicer and more cost effective!

Hannibal Smith · 11-01-2011 8:34pm

Lol well fair play to the woman for speaking out then. There's a huge difference between the care of the staff and hospital procedure. And when even women find stories like this as acceptable and something that shouldn't be remarked on she and otherslike her are sure fighting an uphill battle.

Cat Melodeon · 11-01-2011 10:34pm

I'm with Hannibal on this. Some people may be comfortable having procedures done in a curtained public area - I certainly wouldn't have been and most first time mums wouldn't be.
The hospital I attended had one labour ward with two beds in it - all the others were single patient rooms. I was in this two-bed room on a couple of occasions during my pregnancy for monitoring. My experiences when there was someone else on the other side of the curtain were very different from when I was alone. I did not feel I could speak freely to the doctors/nurses, I did not feel I could question anything or complain in case the other patient thought badly of m, I did not want to delay the staff if the other girl was waiting to speak to them.

I'm not usually backwards about these things, but pregnant women lying on a bed/trolley are vulnerable beings, so quite apart from the physical and emotional discomforts, it has to be asked if it is ethical to ask women to consent to certain procedures when they are feeling exposed like this.

In addition, the stress levels resulting from this exposure have consequences for labouring women - stress produces adrenalin, adrenalin blocks the release of natural oxytocin which is essential for relaxing the muscles and is responsible for causing contractions.

Too long;didn't read?
Being exposed and uncomfortable = fear & stress = slowing of labour = increased likelihood of interventions and injury to mum/baby.

Surely it would be more cost effective to partition a few rooms than have thousands of unnecessary interventions and unhappy mothers each year?

Das Kitty · 11-01-2011 11:16pm

I agree with you fully. Unfortunately it's the reality for most people at the moment, private or public. You were very fortunate to have the privacy you got Cat. I think the article is good though because when you know what to expect you can prepare yourself as much as possible rather than being taken by surprise on the day.

Personally when I was in labour I didn't give a flip, but when I was trying to breastfeed I found it very disconcerting to have someone else's visitor peering through the gap in the curtain. I told him to F off in the end!

Can I just clarify that I agree with the article that privacy levels are very low. My only issue was that there was a perception that she was out in the middle of a corridor in full view of passers by when she never said that.

mumtoe&e · 15-01-2011 2:24pm

Its sad to see so many people think this is acceptable.
Childbirth is the most precious thing that a woman & her partner will ever go through. Every woman deserves dignity & respect before, during & after labour.
It is not acceptable that a woman has to endure having her waters broken on a hospital corridor, be it quiet or hectic.
The hospitals are not to blame - they are doing their best with the staff & the resources that they are working with.
But people should not just sit back and accept this and perceive it as the norm.
Colette was right to write the article - if more women spoke out, then maybe things would eventually change!

crazy cat lady · 15-01-2011 9:38pm

I've worked and given birth in Holles st. I know exactly what the conditions are like, and unfortunately services are stretched to the limit so much that women do not always get the 'ideal' birth experience they would like.

However, my little girl is here and safe and I have lived to tell the birth tale with my health and much of my dignity intact!

Programs like 'One Born Every Minute' show the ideals of a birthing environment. They have to! Its television! And the UK system is quite different in that maternity units are usually attached to hospitals and so are much smaller and less busy. Midwifery led units are also very common in the UK. Holles St covers such a wide area - Dublin, Wicklow, Kildare, Meath, Wexford, as well as being a referral centre for the country. Its no wonder its as busy as it is!

I just want to say that the Doctors and Midwives all have the health and safety of the woman and baby at the centre of every decision they make. Her waters would never have been broken on the corridor, but in a curtained area outside a room is very possible. Its not ideal but I'm sure they had their reasons for doing it, especially if there was mec present. At the end of the day, what do you care about more? The welfare of your unborn child, or your dignity? They could break my waters in the middle of Grafton Street if thats what they had to do to ensure the safety of my baby!

Its great that the issue of the sub-standard conditions are being highlighted in the media. Do I think it'll change anything? Not at all! Everyone everywhere in whatever job they are in, are making the best of what they have to do the best they can at the minute. The system we have if far from Ideal but its all we have for now, so unless us poor women want to stop having babies, or choose to birth at home, I'm not sure there is much we can do to change anything!

lynski · 16-01-2011 12:22am

crazy cat lady wrote: »

I just want to say that the Doctors and Midwives all have the health and safety of the woman and baby at the centre of every decision they make. Her waters would never have been broken on the corridor, but in a curtained area outside a room is very possible. Its not ideal but I'm sure they had their reasons for doing it, especially if there was mec present. At the end of the day, what do you care about more? The welfare of your unborn child, or your dignity? They could break my waters in the middle of Grafton Street if thats what they had to do to ensure the safety of my baby!

Its great that the issue of the sub-standard conditions are being highlighted in the media. Do I think it'll change anything? Not at all! Everyone everywhere in whatever job they are in, are making the best of what they have to do the best they can at the minute. The system we have if far from Ideal but its all we have for now, so unless us poor women want to stop having babies, or choose to birth at home, I'm not sure there is much we can do to change anything!

While agreeing that the doc and nurses are usually doing what they can under circumstances that are not the best, however i dont agree that women should ever accept the conditions she was expected to.
I think there are efficiencies and changes that could be made under stressful conditions at are not done, because procedures and routine are followed. I have seen docs and nurses 'just doing their jobs' but no more, not doing one or 2 small things that could make a patient more comfortable , or make a stay more easy. I would also say that the my experience of agency staff at weekends or night is that they rarely are as good as the full-time staff or as dedicated.

crazy cat lady · 16-01-2011 5:02pm

You're right there about agency staff. Generally they just turn up to do their job, and the bare minimum at that!

Every woman that has a baby in Holles St is given a patient satisfaction survey. If they are unhappy with anything, or feel that there are small changes that could make a difference, this would be the first place to voice anything. I can guarantee you that every returned survey is read by the Management and these surveys are thenleft in the Midwives sitting room and are frequently read. I can't speak for the other maternity hospitals as I've had no experience of them.

No woman should have to endure poor conditions for labour and childbirth. Its not a perfect system but for the most part, babies are delivered healthy, and a lot of women do have a positive experience.

I wonder what Collette would have written had she had her baby on a good day! Because they do happen... rarely... but they do!

Jinxi · 16-01-2011 5:14pm

Its not just holles street that have this issue. Even since before I got pregnant, I have had an issue with hospital staff/policies of time managing womens labour. Breaking waters to speed up labour, oxytocin to make comtrations more intense(usually needing an epidural going hand in hand with this). The procedure to give women injections to speed up the delivery of the placenta(which should at most take 45 mins) is the most pointless off all.
It is all an abuse of power. Women who are stressed, vulnerable and just terrified of anything going wrong being manipulated into accepting sub standard care and un nessacry procedures so beds can be freed up.

crazy cat lady · 16-01-2011 7:52pm

The active management of labour should have been abolished years ago!

SanFran07 · 17-01-2011 12:42pm

crazy cat lady wrote: »

The active management of labour should have been abolished years ago!

But it hasn't.

First time Mums attending H.Street are told to expect this as part of their care when they attend the hospital's classes and a successful active management class results in a compliant, co-operative first time Mother.

As a first time Mum attending H.Street you are lead to believe that AML is normal.....that having your waters broken is normal, and if you don't progress according to the 'chart' you have a deficient uterus and need to be augmented with synthetic hormones. These routine practices were abolished years ago in the UK. The NHS has it's own problems but at least they have national maternity guidelines that are based on science....

Here are a few quotes from the Active Management of Labour guide

'A first labour is unique and the sequence of events that takes place on that occasion has no relevance to later births. The lesson is simple: provide a high level of care and attention the first time around and women will require little attention on the next occasion. Conversely, the damage inflicted by a low level of care and attention first time around is usually irreversible’ (Obviously not Colette's experience...)

The philosophy of AML includes..

'Defining a woman's role in labour and teach her how to fulfill it...'

expectant mothers deserve to be treated as adults and be made fully aware that childbirth is primarily their responsibility. However they must be provided with adequate educational services so that they can learn how to achieve their goal. Obstetricians must realise that few mature women want to be treated like irresponsible children on this momentous occasion”
(‘O Driscoll, 1993)

'women in labour must be encouraged to keep their eyes open at all times, closed eyes usually mark the first step along the road to total disintegration”

(‘O Driscoll et al, 1993)

It's a very interesting read for anyone attending NMH.

Yala · 17-01-2011 10:30pm

This is a very interesting thread having had my kids in HS but I think the hospital has some issues over and beyond the far from ideal labour/delivery room shortages. Mother's with threatened or actual loss in the same room as those in labour, the lack of clean facilities, the overcrowding, the long waiting lists for post delivery physio, when needed. advocating breastfeeding but help with it dependent upon the midwife's who are available.

I do think the hospital needs some policy changes - AML was pioneered in HS, which is why they advocate it/ have it as a standard procedure. At my antenatal classes it was billed as the best thing ever - other hospitals let poor mothers labour on for days, exhausted but we help you. There's a balance at HS that is missing, as with most maternity facilities in Ireland. After no.1 there was no way I was going down that route again so I'd a birth plan, and to be fair, while there was some bemusement when I made anyone who came near me read it before I'd let them touch me, it was respected.

I did go private. I ended up sharing a cubicle after the birth and had to ask this woman who I'd never seen before could she watch my precious newborn while I got a shower as there was no staff who could keep an eye on him while I got clean. I'd waited hours but they were unable to do so. That frightened me...

The end goal for all staff is healthy babies & healthy mums & they do a great job with limited resources. I found the vast majority of Midwives great but some policy changes, women educating themselves and a birth partner who can be the advocate for the mother and is not intimidated by officiousness all would help. So even if there is overcrowding then the experience can be that much better.

Hannibal Smith · 18-01-2011 1:02pm

SanFran07 wrote: »

But it hasn't.

First time Mums attending H.Street are told to expect this as part of their care when they attend the hospital's classes and a successful active management class results in a compliant, co-operative first time Mother.

As a first time Mum attending H.Street you are lead to believe that AML is normal.....that having your waters broken is normal, and if you don't progress according to the 'chart' you have a deficient uterus and need to be augmented with synthetic hormones. These routine practices were abolished years ago in the UK. The NHS has it's own problems but at least they have national maternity guidelines that are based on science....

Here are a few quotes from the Active Management of Labour guide

'A first labour is unique and the sequence of events that takes place on that occasion has no relevance to later births. The lesson is simple: provide a high level of care and attention the first time around and women will require little attention on the next occasion. Conversely, the damage inflicted by a low level of care and attention first time around is usually irreversible’ (Obviously not Colette's experience...)

The philosophy of AML includes..

'Defining a woman's role in labour and teach her how to fulfill it...'

expectant mothers deserve to be treated as adults and be made fully aware that childbirth is primarily their responsibility. However they must be provided with adequate educational services so that they can learn how to achieve their goal. Obstetricians must realise that few mature women want to be treated like irresponsible children on this momentous occasion”
(‘O Driscoll, 1993)

'women in labour must be encouraged to keep their eyes open at all times, closed eyes usually mark the first step along the road to total disintegration”

(‘O Driscoll et al, 1993)

It's a very interesting read for anyone attending NMH.

To be fair, I've had a child in Holles Street, and I've also attended their Ante Natal Classes and you're right insofar as they give you a chart which shows the expectations on how your labour is to progress and if it doesn't they'll administer oxytocin (sp) etc etc etc to help you along. Whilst the skeptical ones might say this is to get you in and out as quickly as possible, speaking as some one who was a week in hospital before they decided to induce me, I'm one of the people who has actually been there and from a PATIENT point of view as long as they got my baby out, they could take as much of an active role as they liked

:D

I accept that this may not be the most 'mother earth' approach to child birth and labour, but I was a week in hospital with pre-eclampsia at 36 weeks and if they hadn't induced me the alternative would have been to stay in hospital for the next 4 weeks till baby came naturally.

I accept that my circumstances may not be the 'norm' but next time around I hope they do the very same thing, get the baby out as quickly as possible, by whatever means so I can get along with cuddling it

:D

So whilst you may be able to quote statistics and on paper it all sounds very nice...bring on the breaking waters, bring on the oxytocin, bring on the drugs and whatever else it takes to get us all out of hosp as quick as possible!

lynski · 18-01-2011 1:07pm

Hannibal AML in your case was the most appropriate choice, probably, because you had a serious health condition. For most healthy mothers and healthy babies it is not the most appropriate choice, and it is proven to not be the most appropriate choice.

SanFran07 · 18-01-2011 1:34pm

lynski wrote: »

Hannibal AML in your case was the most appropriate choice, probably, because you had a serious health condition. For most healthy mothers and healthy babies it is not the most appropriate choice, and it is proven to not be the most appropriate choice.

As Lynski has said - there are times when a Mum and baby needs help and are very glad of it! Nobody is disputing that.

Of course nobody in their right mind willingly signs up for a long labour and long hospital stay but the routine practices in H.Street aren't best international practice even though it is the National Maternity hospital.

I'd take my chances with a longer labour rather than outdated medical interventions especially if my baby and I are healthy! As long as H.Street give Mums all of the information about the risks of speeding up labours then Mums can make informed decisions about their options....but they don't....it's 'sold' to first timers as a simple little 'popping of the waters' that is medically necessary.....bending the truth a little so you'll just do what you're told. Not exactly ethical practice.... Unless you make it clear that you prefer NOT to have your waters broken artificially unless there is a compelling reason you'll become part of the production line and another number. There are amazing Midwives in H.Street and they really are caught between a rock and a hard place because their regulatory body the ABA supports evidence based, mother centered holistic care.....and sadly active management of labour is neither....

Hannibal Smith · 18-01-2011 2:11pm

As I said in my post, I appreciate that my circumstances weren't the norm, but next time around I'd say bring in on. I don't want to be in labour and agony for hours on end. If they can move things along for me, I'd be delighted to accept anything they have to offer.:D:D

aniascor · 18-01-2011 2:23pm

Each to their own Hannibal Smith. But I'd see a big difference between all the interventions that were needed in your case to induce labour artificially due to a medical concern, and simply inducing for the sake of it because X number of days have passed.

My waters went naturally when I got to 10cm, and I had a great labour - very manageable, and no drugs needed. And I think it's because I wasn't interfered with while everything was going well.

I have friends whose waters were broken as soon as they arrived at the hospital, who thought the pains were unbearable from the minute that happened.

Personally I'd rather deal with the manageable labour pains with waters intact, even if labour lasts a bit longer.

lynski · 18-01-2011 2:24pm

That is the thing though isn't it, 'agony for hours' is a more likely outcome of interventions then of natural labor. Induction, Artificial rupture of membranes, EPIs, all lead to longer labors and more cs, and that is a fact.

Just because we don't have the money now to ensure that every woman has the right to private rooms, midwife led care, birthing pools, home births, dignity and complete care in all areas does not mean we should not try to ensure our daughters have this things.

Colette Fitzpatrick's (TV3) experience of Irish Maternity Care

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