worries over the garda fleet (again)

carzony · 18-06-2014 6:42pm #1

http://www.herald.ie/news/ageing-garda-fleet-is-a-timebomb-for-the-government-30362639.html

well nothing new.. concerns over the transport used by gardai and worries over the lack of technology being used..

Even though there was a good number of Hyundai and fords delivered I still see lots of ol battered mondeos. Oldest i'v seen was a 04 focus recently :pac:

Peppa Cig · 18-06-2014 7:08pm

Head of Inspectorate just looking to get onside with GRA. He wants commish job and will probably get it too.

Little CuChulainn · 18-06-2014 7:11pm

Peppa Cig wrote: »

Head of Inspectorate just looking to get onside with GRA. He wants commish job and will probably get it too.

I think the Inspectorate has always done a pretty fair and impartial job to be honest. It's a shame they aren't listened to more often.

kub · 18-06-2014 7:14pm

Typical press bull, I am sure quite a lot of The Heralds readers will have noticed the new Hyundai fleet and the Ford one just before that. Now please don't get me wrong I am sure that perhaps Ford should have been the latest as they just seem to be a more solid car.

However with such a large fleet then some vehicles will reach their 300 k before others, also I am sure the older vehicles have more of a back up role and are not on front line duty.

Shady Tady · 18-06-2014 7:15pm

Peppa Cig wrote: »

Head of Inspectorate just looking to get onside with GRA. He wants commish job and will probably get it too.

The fact that it's a reality might have something to do with it as well! I see shatter showed his office a lot of respect when he was in office!!!

Peppa Cig · 18-06-2014 8:08pm

Shady Tady wrote: »

The fact that it's a reality might have something to do with it as well! I see shatter showed his office a lot of respect when he was in office!!!

I fully agree it is the reality and has been the reality for many many years. Its not why he mentioned though. Politics at work here.

Mr Simpson · 19-06-2014 9:18am

carzony wrote: »

Oldest i'v seen was a 04 focus recently :pac:

Theres a 99D Nissan Almera(?) in Pearse Street, now thats ridiculous.

POGAN · 19-06-2014 12:43pm

Mr Simpson wrote: »

Theres a 99D Nissan Almera(?) in Pearse Street, now thats ridiculous.

There's older than that too but serious think about all 11 avenais out on regular units that are gone or soon to be grounded

Mister Jingles · 20-06-2014 12:17am

98 Camery is the oldest ive seen, this its been a few months now since...

donkey balls · 20-06-2014 9:30pm

Question for people in the know do the Gardai have people who look after the likes of fleet maintenance SLA etc,Along with purchasing skills/experience and to question maintenance/ repair bills would the force not be better choosing one manufacturer for the fleet.(Easy for parts etc plus neg on prices)
And if need be another company to supply specialist units with more high power/spec cars ,If you look at some of the airlines and road transport companies they all use just the one manufacturer and the reason being easy access to parts and not having the hassle of dealing with different manufacturers.

Little CuChulainn · 20-06-2014 10:15pm

donkey balls wrote: »

Question for people in the know do the Gardai have people who look after the likes of fleet maintenance SLA etc,Along with purchasing skills/experience and to question maintenance/ repair bills would the force not be better choosing one manufacturer for the fleet.(Easy for parts etc plus neg on prices)
And if need be another company to supply specialist units with more high power/spec cars ,If you look at some of the airlines and road transport companies they all use just the one manufacturer and the reason being easy access to parts and not having the hassle of dealing with different manufacturers.

Yes there are experts who test the cars and make recommendations. Of course they are generally ignored in favour of the cheapest deal.

Markcheese · 23-06-2014 8:10pm

Do Garda cars get rotated ? (from high milage or thrashing roles to less taxing runabouts) . Would have thought you could take the lights and decals off a silver traffic car when it hits around 200k and put it on a gentler role ?
Or not ..

audidiesel · 24-06-2014 8:25am

The new fleet is crap anyways. 1.6 Hyundai i30's. They should never have been bought. The focus's aren't much better.

The garda fleets been a joke since 2007. Once they stopped buying 1.8/2.0 petrol mondeos. The vast majority of cars bought since then are just not up to the job and spend half their lives in the garage.

pa990 · 24-06-2014 3:50pm

Markcheese wrote: »

Do Garda cars get rotated ? (from high milage or thrashing roles to less taxing runabouts) . Would have thought you could take the lights and decals off a silver traffic car when it hits around 200k and put it on a gentler role ?
Or not ..

Thats kinda whats happening at the moment (as has been publicly stated) Stations with high mileage cars are having the cars swapped with cars from quieter stations that have low mileage.

The end result.. both cars hit their max mileage at the same time.

http://www.irishtimes.com/news/crime-and-law/ageing-garda-fleet-a-financial-time-bomb-warns-inspectorate-1.1836076

The force is so strapped for resources it is transferring Garda vehicles from urban to rural areas in an effort to get as much mileage from them as possible, according to chief inspector Bob Olson.

“It’s a financial time bomb just ticking away. The guards are doing a great job in getting some jobs done in spite of the resources they don’t have. But the vehicle fleet: they’ve been shuffling them around, which is a smart move, urban to rural to get more mileage out of them. But all it means is that they are all going to crash at the same time and there’s going to be a big bill to pay. It’s troublesome.”

crash might be the wrong word to use, "become end of life" may be been a better turn of phrase.

sparkynash · 25-06-2014 10:14am

The state of the tiny Hyundai cars they got omg way too small.

TheNog · 25-06-2014 10:55am

sparkynash wrote: »

The state of the tiny Hyundai cars they got omg way too small.

Too small, too bouncy, poor handling, under powered, too low to the ground, too noisy etc etc

Grand small family car but the i30 is not a useful hard going full time patrol car. Coupled with the new driving regulations coming which I do agree with but we are not prepared for it on the ground. Yes qualified drivers will have to be used as much as possible but in my district hq there only 2 drivers over 5 units.

So once again we are faced with short term planning to save money at all costs without looking at the long term aspects.

sparkynash · 25-06-2014 1:12pm

Are you in the force yourself..

sparkynash · 25-06-2014 1:21pm

When ye had the avensis where they any good.

Potential-Monke · 26-06-2014 1:57pm

No, should have stuck with the Mondeos. Avensis, like the i30's, are too soft. Better again, there should be something set up with some manufacturer to have purpose built patrol cars based on a saloon, ie: a Mondeo with proper suspension, wheels, tyres, gearbox, power and without all the useless extras, and preferably with a screen between the front and back seats. That's dreaming though...

sparkynash · 26-06-2014 4:35pm

Like the American police.there cars are like tanks.

FGR · 26-06-2014 6:35pm

A Mondeo in everything but name - kitted out completely for police use.

Boaty · 27-06-2014 8:04pm

Plenty of space in the i30 tourer, plenty power for a 1.6

audidiesel · 28-06-2014 2:47am

Boaty wrote: »

Plenty of space in the i30 tourer, plenty power for a 1.6

only reply I can think of really....

28-06-2014 3:05am

I always wondered why a major car company hasnt designed a saloon or estate specifically for policing,

surely this would be better than driving small family cars into the ground,

would also thought there would be money to be made there for a company with fleet sales and servicing and so on.

28-06-2014 3:09am

TheNog wrote: »

Too small, too bouncy, poor handling, under powered, too low to the ground, too noisy etc etc

Sounds like whoever ordered them was a fan of '80s American cop films. :P

gctest50 · 28-06-2014 3:44am

Boaty wrote: »

Plenty of space in the i30 tourer, plenty power for a 1.6

Plenty power - really ????

- dangerous piece of cr@p for the job it was bought for

Half decent yokes at least - cheaper than having underspecced cr@p in the garage for repairs every other week

Follow-up Report

In 2002 we purchased an Outback and turned it into one of the few police cars of its kind in the United States. We shared our story in the summer 2002 Drive magazine.

I’m back to report our first high-speed chase using it: On a Sunday evening, two murder suspects were driving toward our little town. I jumped in the Outback and participated in pursuit.

Our little Outback chased those suspects for 95 miles at speeds over 105 mph and still had more to give. We went through roads that were dry and some with heavy rain. The Outback kept on going while the other cars had to watch for hydroplaning. I was called off after the 95 miles with the gas light coming on. Not bad, considering I started with less than half a tank.

And, yes, the bad guys were caught and taken to jail!

David Szambelan
Asst. Chief of Police
Colfax Police Department, WA

Little CuChulainn · 28-06-2014 11:13am

aaronc182 wrote: »

I always wondered why a major car company hasnt designed a saloon or estate specifically for policing,

surely this would be better than driving small family cars into the ground,

would also thought there would be money to be made there for a company with fleet sales and servicing and so on.

Didn't BMW offer a purpose built fleet at a competitive price?

Mister Jingles · 28-06-2014 12:26pm

How are the new Mondeos holding up ? Yea hear lots of phrase about the older ones but nothing on the new, considering they are not petrol any more and a completely different car.

Capri · 28-06-2014 11:28pm

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-11601537

....Currently the forces spend around £83m on 5,600 vehicles each year.....

.....In a statement, David Horne, of the National Police Improvement Agency (NPIA), said the money saved was a significant amount.....

......Beat officers seeking a new patrol car will be able to choose from "ready to drive" models that will need minimal or no modification......

....They will be able to select only certain models of Ford, Vauxhall, Peugeot or Hyundai, while forces seeking a high-performance traffic vehicle - which police often use while on motorway patrol - will be able to choose from certain BMW, Audi or Volvo models.

Other manufacturers in the preferred suppliers' list include Jaguar, Iveco and VW should forces decide they need other types of vehicles including motorbikes, vans and armoured VIP saloons.....

The NPIA said the single supply agreement meant most forces would save an average of £25,000 for each "procurement activity", while orders would be delivered more quickly.

The police service has also created a new national tyre purchase framework, saving an additional £3.1m.

The deals were struck as part of the NPIA's bid to find nearly £300m in non-IT related savings by 2013.

An average police patrol vehicle travels up to 15,000 miles (24,000km) a year and can cost a force around £22,000 to buy and maintain for a four-year period.

Home office police specs https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/.../cast3911.pdf

Quazzie · 28-06-2014 11:33pm

audidiesel wrote: »

The vast majority of cars bought since then are just not up to the job and spend half their lives in the garage.

There is a certain irony between your username and that statement.

:pac:

29-06-2014 11:56am

Mister Jingles wrote: »

How are the new Mondeos holding up ? Yea hear lots of phrase about the older ones but nothing on the new, considering they are not petrol any more and a completely different car.

Only a handful of them around. The driving school use them so what does that tell you?

Regular units only got the Avensis, Focus and Hyundai.

ToxicPaddy · 30-06-2014 8:08am

It's a shame AGS aren't equipped with a decent standard model car for certain uses. Almost every other police force does it.

Surely anyone with half a brain can see the advantages of standardisation if the fleet and the savings that can be made by doing this. It could be renewed every 10 years and bulk buying discounts negotiated up front including parts and maintenance.

gctest50 · 30-06-2014 6:31pm

ToxicPaddy wrote: »

It's a shame AGS aren't equipped with a decent standard model car for certain uses. Almost every other police force does it.

Surely anyone with half a brain can see the advantages of standardisation if the fleet and the savings that can be made by doing this. It could be renewed every 10 years and bulk buying discounts negotiated up front including parts and maintenance.

You'd think at first it was down to brown envelopes what was bought for them to use - but then remember you must never put down to "malice" what can be explained by stupidity

Potential-Monke wrote: »

.........Better again, there should be something set up with some manufacturer to have purpose built patrol cars based on a saloon, ie: a Mondeo with proper suspension, wheels, tyres, gearbox, power and without all the useless extras, and preferably with a screen between the front and back seats. That's dreaming though...

€ 23,000 ish :

Ultra-high-strength steel added to both A-pillars for significant improvements in roof crush safety
Front hip room increased to 57.5” from 56.7” (for better comfort and support while wearing a utility belt)
Retuned, thicker front struts (32 mm from 30 mm) and front stabilizer bar (26 mm from 24 mm) for improved handling
Police-calibrated StabiliTrak with Performance Mode
Heavy-duty power 4-wheel disc antilock brake system
Heavy-duty police suspension
Transmission and power-steering coolers
Heavy-duty 18” steel wheels with bolt-on center caps
6.0L V8 with 355 hp and 384 lb-ft of torque, Active Fuel Management, FlexFuel3 capability, and engine oil cooler
Remote Vehicle Starter System with Remote Keyless Entry

http://www.gmfleet.com/police/chevy-caprice-ppv-patrol-car.html

.

flazio · 30-06-2014 10:40pm

Is the fact that we are a country that uses right hand drive vehicles holding us back from getting decent motors at a good price?

gctest50 · 30-06-2014 10:42pm

flazio wrote: »

Is the fact that we are a country that uses right hand drive vehicles holding us back from getting decent motors at a good price?

You can get the sorta yokes above in RHD - Holden do them afaik

flazio · 01-07-2014 11:55am

gctest50 wrote: »

You can get the sorta yokes above in RHD - Holden do them afaik

But Holden are based in Australia, importing from there won't be cheap.

the_syco · 01-07-2014 12:31pm

Have the gubbernment gotten around to legislation that allows the Gardai to use seized cars as police vehicles?

TheNog · 01-07-2014 9:43pm

Capri wrote: »

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-11601537

Home office police specs https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/.../cast3911.pdf

Anyone notice the comment of the average police vehicle doing 15,000 a year? Has to be a typo.

Zambia · 02-07-2014 7:44am

TheNog wrote: »

Anyone notice the comment of the average police vehicle doing 15,000 a year? Has to be a typo.

Would an average of 300 a day sound right?

TheNog · 02-07-2014 10:37am

Zambia wrote: »

Would an average of 300 a day sound right?

Would be about right.

Taking into account a main district hq car would do about 120,000k a year and sub station cars which are less travelled but would still do 25-30 k annually. Average mileage is hell of a lot more than the 15k in the article

Old diesel · 02-08-2014 10:32am

donkey balls wrote: »

Question for people in the know do the Gardai have people who look after the likes of fleet maintenance SLA etc,Along with purchasing skills/experience and to question maintenance/ repair bills would the force not be better choosing one manufacturer for the fleet.(Easy for parts etc plus neg on prices)
And if need be another company to supply specialist units with more high power/spec cars ,If you look at some of the airlines and road transport companies they all use just the one manufacturer and the reason being easy access to parts and not having the hassle of dealing with different manufacturers.

Of course you could make sure you buy from a company that can SUPPLY the high spec/high power cars also.

If you had sensible thinking - you could say okay - lets buy 100 Nissan Quasquis (for example) for normal garda work.

And 40 Audis for traffic corps (again as an example).

You could do this I would imagine if you had TWO separate tenders with SEPARATE requirements for each.

Meaning Audi wins the traffic corps tender on the basis of meeting additional requirements laid down for traffic corps (hypothetically) - but Nissan wins the tender for the regular IF the Quasqui meets the requirements for a regular patrol car.

Parts shouldn't be an issue of all 100 Quasquis are the same - and all 40 Audis are the same.

Problem here is - we order in 150 Hyundais or 150 Toyotas - and that's it - the fleet requirements must be met from the 150.

Separate tenders for different parts of the Garda operation is the way forward I think - meaning Traffic corps or other operations - cars are bought SEPARATELY to the regular.

The problem of course is that the REGULAR NEED decent cars too

Capri · 05-08-2014 9:30pm

Be careful with vehicle contracts

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/policeman-arrested-in-awarding-of-contracts-probe-30484414.html

Detectives investigating the awarding of Police Service of Northern Ireland (PSNI) vehicle contracts have arrested a member of staff.
A number of arrests have been made as part of the inquiry and the chief constable of West Yorkshire Police was recently suspended pending an investigation by his former force in Northern Ireland.

http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2014/jun/20/west-yorkshire-police-chief-suspended-corruption-inquiry

worries over the garda fleet (again)

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