When did Battlestar Galactica loose the plot?

noodler · 21-05-2011 12:06am

God's role in BSG was evident from day one - I really don't understand why people were so surprised by the finale.

GodlessM · 23-05-2011 12:19am

opinion guy wrote: »

lolz everybody is actually dead.

Shows how much attention you paid to the Lost finale. The flashes of S6 were placed in an afterlife after they all died; some on the island and some after; they weren't dead the whole duration of the show.

opinion guy · 23-05-2011 12:21am

GodlessM wrote: »

Shows how much attention you paid to the Lost finale. The flashes of S6 were placed in an afterlife after they all died; some on the island and some after; they weren't dead the whole duration of the show.

Did I forget to put a smiley on my post or are you just suffering from a sarcasm failure ?

Overheal · 26-05-2011 7:06pm

barneysplash wrote: »

I think it was when Starbuck came back from the dead
and 4 of the final 5 Cylons started hearing the music that
lead them to be suddenly aware that they were Cylons.

Such a shame, as Season 2 was good.

What do you think?

On the first run, it sure felt that way. Because we believed it was pure sci fi, and things like gods and angels did not exist in that universe and they just believe in it like you know, people do. By the end you find out thats the case though.

With that fact in mind, Im actually in the middle of a complete re-watch for the first time since the series ended and I have to say it's actually really good, with the "Hallucination" Six, and Baltar scenes taking on much more gravity.

Cookie_Monster · 27-05-2011 12:55pm

somewhere between season 4 eps 4-6

I've just watched up to here and it's all just gone a bit bananas there

Al Capwned · 30-05-2011 5:06pm

Fabulous
Fantastic
Brilliant
Superb
.....

Outstanding seriesfrom day 1 - dont think it ever lost the plot!!!!!!!

degrassinoel · 03-06-2011 8:13pm

I agree, and infact I decided to watch the entire thing again from scratch, its quite odd knowing how it ends and seeing how everything is panning out through the seasons, am halfway through S3 atm

scoobyjack · 07-06-2011 1:01pm

Have to admit, the only thing that got to me was the Starbuck "angel" thing... but the whole series was so outstandingly good that I quickly got over any qualms I had throughout.

Batigol · 09-08-2011 3:57pm

Got a loan of the boxset recently after hearing great things about the series. Currently on season 4 and I (with the caveat of not seeing the second half of season four or the final season) - I'm pretty sure it's lost the plot in the episode with Baltars trial (end of season 3). The episode itself was mostly good, then Jimi Hendrix/Bob Dylan entered and that was that.

From then on it's been 2-3 'meh' episodes followed by one interesting, then back to 'meh' etc, overly religious and so on. Hopefully it picks back up as I thought the first 3 seasons were some of the best tv out there (not just sci fi but in general)

Baltar has to be up there as one of the all time great characters

noodler · 09-08-2011 4:36pm

Batigol wrote: »

I'm pretty sure it's lost the plot in the episode with Baltars trial (end of season 3). The episode itself was mostly good, then Jimi Hendrix/Bob Dylan entered and that was that.

Thank god the majority of people disagree with you!

I love the way season 3 ends.

You have three seperate reveals, the fleet on the brink and a kickass song worked into the mix.

Batigol · 09-08-2011 5:54pm

noodler wrote: »

Thank god the majority of people disagree with you!

I love the way season 3 ends.
You have three seperate reveals, the fleet on the brink and a kickass song worked into the mix.

I understand it will read abit silly considering it's a show in space against a robot oppressor etc, but did you not think it was a little bit of a "jumped the shark moment"?

I thought it had been much more entertaining and believable in storyline/characters etc till that. Surely the reveals could of been done in another way - even a simple "switch" like Boomer rather than a song (albeit a kickass song) from the 60s

I haven't finished the series yet but I'm really skeptical that the song will be explained

opinion guy · 09-08-2011 6:09pm

Batigol wrote: »

I understand it will read abit silly considering it's a show in space against a robot oppressor etc, but did you not think it was a little bit of a "jumped the shark moment"?

I thought it had been much more entertaining and believable in storyline/characters etc till that. Surely the reveals could of been done in another way - even a simple "switch" like Boomer rather than a song (albeit a kickass song) from the 60s

I haven't finished the series yet but I'm really skeptical that the song will be explained

Batigol......obviously we don't want to give everything away. Alls i say is bear with it...

Sir Digby Chicken Caesar · 09-08-2011 6:10pm

opinion guy wrote: »

Batigol......obviously we don't want to give everything away. Alls i say is bear with it...

oh you sneaky son of a bitch

Batigol · 09-08-2011 9:14pm

opinion guy wrote: »

Batigol......obviously we don't want to give everything away. Alls i say is bear with it...

First 3 seasons mean I will be watching till the end. It's not that I dislike the series as a whole, I just feel (at the moment anyway) that the end of season 3 and start of season 4 have been really weak compared to what came before. Hopefully the 2nd half of 4 and the final season will pay off

Batigol · 17-08-2011 9:52am

Finished it!

I still think it got much weaker

end of season 3, after the trial when the final 5 hear Jimi Hendrix/Bob Dylan

compared to the first seasons but I'll admit some of the best parts of the series came in the final season.

Mutiny episodes were the best of probably the entire show

Starbuck - Piano Man (was he supposed to be Daniel the 7th Cylon or just a random apparition?) was terrible

Final itself was 90% brilliant but I didn't like the final montage parts - basically ' God did it ', she was actually a fraking angel nonsense. Was always a religious show but it went beyond into preachy mode which is too much for me

Still.....

The best scifi show (prob) ever.

noodler · 17-08-2011 10:34am

Batigol wrote: »

Finished it!

I still think it got much weaker
end of season 3, after the trial when the final 5 hear Jimi Hendrix/Bob Dylan
compared to the first seasons but I'll admit some of the best parts of the series came in the final season.

I will agree season 4 had ssome weak points, as did season 3 (in the second half) but I can simply not agree with you regarding the finale in season 3. That was brilliant.

Batigol wrote: »

Mutiny episodes were the best of probably the entire show

Couldn't agree more, I wish they had been an episode longer - finished too quickly.[/QUOTE]

Batigol wrote: »

Starbuck - Piano Man (was he supposed to be Daniel the 7th Cylon or just a random apparition?) was terrible

You might not have completely gotten that part. I thought the reveal was excellent - sent chills down my spine.

Batigol wrote: »

Final itself was 90% brilliant but I didn't like the final montage parts - basically ' God did it ', she was actually a fraking angel nonsense. Was always a religious show but it went beyond into preachy mode which is too much for me

Still.....

In the middle of watching the (majorly extended) finale on BR at the moment! But the god part was evident eversince

they seemed to decide 'Head Six' was not a cylon (not sure when they made this decision - in the mini series she is clearly unmoved at the fact a genocide just took place, in season 2 she seems distraught one cylon has been tortured...)

opinion guy · 17-08-2011 10:46am

noodler wrote: »

In the middle of watching the (majorly extended) finale on BR at the moment! But the god part was evident eversince

BR ????

noodler · 17-08-2011 10:48am

opinion guy wrote: »

BR ????

Blu Ray

HivemindXX · 14-10-2011 6:06pm

Based on the thread title I don't think spoiler concealment is necessary...

I'm one of the people who felt BSG went off the rails a bit near the end. This is not to say it wasn't still good.

I've been rewatching recently and I figured this is a good place to post my opinions of bad bits as I get to them.

Knowing the ending I don't think Head 6 works very well as what she turns out to be. The character works amazingly well as a figment of genius Baltars tortured imagination. As an angel, an actual instrument of an actual Gods will, not so much. There were a number of points where my foreknowledge of where things were going made me question the characterisation.

The other thing that doesn't work extremely well is the various attempts to make the cylons seem sympathetic. Having watched the obliteration of the colonies only a week ago it seems hard to do take those attempts seriously.

Apart from that the first season was just excellent. There's some very minor issues with questions about humanoid Cylon physiology (are they super strong or not? do they have glow sticks all down their spine or not?) but nothing worth worrying about.

I'm half way through the second season and a couple of things struck me about the last couple of episodes.

Firstly Roslins miracle cure from the foetal blood was a bit heavy handed, it came out of nowhere and just seemed like a cheap Saturday morning serial method of getting the story away from the edge of the cliff. I can't remember but I presume this amazing healing power never gets used to cure anyone else across the fleet.

Secondly there was a major development in Baltar's character. His character is fantastic, he's clearly brilliant but terribly flawed. He seems to be developing in to a better person but after reading the letter from Roslin (which was quite mild, especially when you consider what he was actually guilt of) he freaks out completely and does something completely out of character (not self serving, not smart, not decent). You can argue against that but I just don't buy that action as in character.

So far the plot is very much still on track. I have no problem with all the mysticism, religion and prophecy because so far there it is all ambiguous whether there is an actual God or not, you can take things either way.

MisterAnarchy · 23-10-2011 2:06am

noodler wrote: »

In the middle of watching the (majorly extended) finale on BR at the moment! But the god part was evident eversince

I wasnt aware of an extended finale...I must watch it.:)

MOH · 26-10-2011 7:03am

Mid season 4. The religious cult thing just went nowhere.

The main question heading for the finale are what is Starbuck and where did she come from, what's the deal with the opera house, and the outstanding one from the pilot, how the hell did Balthar get off Earth.

There's no satisfactory answer to any of them.

I loved the show, one of the best I've ever watched, but I was really underwhelmed by the end.

opinion guy · 26-10-2011 11:29am

MOH wrote: »

how the hell did Balthar get off Earth.

Wasn't there a scene where he talked himself onto a transport ?

noodler · 29-10-2011 6:56pm

opinion guy wrote: »

Wasn't there a scene where he talked himself onto a transport ?

He didn't have to, Boomer recognised him in the crowd and Helo decided to let him have his place cos he was an important scientist...vital for the future of the race etc etc

promethius42 · 10-01-2012 5:08pm

I felt the entire thing was brilliant, fair enough the religious parts dragged on but overall I liked it.

Mal-Adjusted · 02-04-2012 1:12am

i think the writers admitted along the line that the show was made up season to season, so having watched it when it aired, later on DVD with my dad and now on DVD again with my girlfriend, you can kind of see where some ideas changed.

i.e. Head six is very much a Cylon chip in season one and is possibly the same six that beats up Sharon and Starbuck on Caprica. in season 2, the writers decided to separate head six from Caprica six.

they introduced the Pegasus because that's what the original series did but never really had a plan for it, so it just sat there for 3/4 of a season before blowing up.

the final five. these were never originally planned to by Cylons, hence why they had to work around Tyroll having a son with Cally so that Hera would be more important. hey, presto! she frakked Costanza!

noodler · 02-04-2012 9:38am

Mal-Adjusted wrote: »

i.e. Head six is very much a Cylon chip in season one and is possibly the same six that beats up Sharon and Starbuck on Caprica. in season 2, the writers decided to separate head six from Caprica six.

Completely agree with you here. The way Head Six didn't seem to give a frak when the Olympic Carrier was destroyed compared to the way she cried when she saw one Cylon being interogated on Pegasus...

They definitely seemed to be leaning heavily towards her being a Cylon in the first two seasons (hell even telling Baltar to get a Nuke from Adama and give it to that other 6 to blow up that ship and show the Cylons to New Caprica)

Mal-Adjusted wrote: »

they introduced the Pegasus because that's what the original series did but never really had a plan for it, so it just sat there for 3/4 of a season before blowing up.

This I am not so sure about, I think Pegasus was always temporary, in the same way New Caprica was always going to be.

Mal-Adjusted wrote: »

the final five. these were never originally planned to by Cylons, hence why they had to work around Tyroll having a son with Cally so that Hera would be more important. hey, presto! she frakked Costanza!

Yeah, for sure.

I don't blame them too much for that though, I don't think most shows know their arcs (never mind the intricate details) more than a season ahead.

Sad Professor · 02-04-2012 9:42am

Moore freely admits to making the show up as he went along. I don't think he planned ahead at all, not even by a season.

noodler · 02-04-2012 9:52am

Sad Professor wrote: »

Moore freely admits to making the show up as he went along. I don't think he planned ahead at all, not even by a season.

Yeah, I think thats well known at this stage.

expectationlost · 14-06-2012 5:43am

and thus from season 1 it went down hill bravo moore, you served us well not going through a rewatch now season 3, 4 and 5 or just a slog

The Corinthian · 08-07-2012 4:54pm

In fairness it is probably nigh on impossible to write a 'watertight' story arc for a US television series. J. Michael Straczynski tried to do so with Babylon 5 and twice he was forced to amend it due to commercial reasons; first with the replacement of Michael O'Hare by Bruce Boxleitner in season two and more significantly when he thought that the series was going to be cancelled after the forth season, resulting in the closing off of the main story lines and when the series was renewed at the last minute for a fifth season, they essentially had to create new plot lines.

A series can be cancelled at any point, even before the end of a season, although if it does this sometimes gives the writers some time to give the audience a (often messy) resolution, such as that in the US version of Life on Mars. Or it can be extended, which can cause problems to a story arc as it can cause a painful drawing out of the principle arc and/or the introduction of new plot lines. And of course, to keep ratings up, and avoid cancellation, new elements, characters or plot lines sometimes need to be parachuted in; with Star Trek Voyager's introduction of Jeri Ryan or the Xindi arc in Star Trek Enterprise being cases in point.

And of course sometimes a story arc has to be amended whenever the actor can no longer play the part (Lucy Lawless wanted to leave BSG and in Lost Michelle Rodriguez and Cynthia Watros were essentially fired after a drink driving incident). I believe these are called 'trap doors' in the business.

My understanding of both BSG and Lost is that they both had very rough story arcs developed at the start. Some elements were always planned (the first scene in the pilot and final scene in the finale with Jack Shephard's eyes opening/closing respectively was always planned), but much of it was made up on a season-to-season basis.

While I still consider it an excellent series to the end, BSG handled this a bit messily, TBH. Number Seven and the Final Five were just ways of explaining the unseen Cylon models that we'd been promised. Then of course they had to tie up loose ends where it came to the Cylons being unable to reproduce; ergo Caprica Six's miscarriage and Tyrol's cuckolding. Deus ex machina was employed extensively too in both BSG and Lost to messily tie up loose ends. Overall, it cannot be denied that BSG was possibly even worse than Lost in this, with some devices (most notably the abandonment of technology for some bizarre reason) making little or no sense - at least Lost created a 'purgatory' arc that tied up nicely, to distract people from the fact that much of the principle arc made no sense.

Personally, I think this occurred to BSG in Season three with the introduction of the Final Five, the writing out of D'Anna Biers and, I suspect, with the New Caprica and Pegasus arcs wrapped up the writers were at a loss as to what to do next.

When did Battlestar Galactica loose the plot?

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