Manchester United Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread 11/12

Pro. F · 24-08-2011 4:16am

Get in! Lovin this football we are playing now!

This is what I've been talking about our need for better ball players in the middle of the pitch. Clev+Anderson on the ball is a level above any pair from Carrick/Fletch/Giggs/Scholes*. This lovely football we have been playing recently is what I knew we could play once we had proper ball players in the middle.

All the other changes that have happened in the team are far less significant. Young/Nani on the wings is not a huge improvement over Valencia/Nani. Welbeck has not been a significant improvement over Hernandez in terms of the team's general use of the ball (although he looks very much like he has the potential to be). All the youth in the team - which is great - also is not the reason we are using the ball better. Having two CMs who have real quality close control is the reason we have been playing so much better. Fúck we've been waiting a long time for this. And now it's finally here it feels goooood.

I know it was the second half that was the special performance, but I thought the first half was satisfying too. We looked sharp and we had the better of the play over that 45 minutes. For so early in the season we are really looking good.

But there is still a bit of an issue in that CM department imo. The Anderson/Cleverly pair is suspect defensively. Cleverly seems to be the one with more licence to get forward which is fair enough. But Anderson is not yet the player I want to be relying on to cover the back four. He is a risk when he is the one being called on to do that job. I noticed the other night that even though he's working hard to get back when the opposition have the ball, a lot of the time he gets to the area in front of the eighteen yard line and then just lets runners go past him. He just looks too eager to always pass the marking on to someone else imo.

Maybe - hopefully - Anderson can improve on that side of his game. If he can then we are properly sorted. If he can't then maybe Fletcher being paired with either of Ando or Cleverly would be the right mix. I could see Carrick being brought in as an anchor man for big games with Ando and Cleverly in front of him, but that's a waste imo. And Carrick is still a liability for getting his pocket picked when the opposition press high up the pitch.

*The only thing holding Giggs and Scholes back was age. They're great on the ball but they struggle(d) to keep up the energy levels.

MagicMarker · 24-08-2011 8:08am

Seriously, what a rag, doesn't even bare quoting.

homerjay2005 · 24-08-2011 8:36am

MagicMarker wrote: »

Seriously, what a rag, doesn't even bare quoting.

nasri is not worth £24 million. it really is a shocking amount for a player who played well for 3 months, is wanting away and has less than one year on his contract. madness, just sums up why we can never get involved with city.

Samba · 24-08-2011 9:25am

homerjay2005 wrote: »

nasri is not worth £24 million. it really is a shocking amount for a player who played well for 3 months, is wanting away and has less than one year on his contract. madness, just sums up why we can never get involved with city.

You're shocked that city paid over the odds for yet another player? I'm not the slightest bit surprised or shocked, it's what we've come to expect, no?

Jax Teller · 24-08-2011 9:37am

homerjay2005 wrote: »

nasri is not worth £24 million. it really is a shocking amount for a player who played well for 3 months, is wanting away and has less than one year on his contract. madness, just sums up why we can never get involved with city.

i think £24 million is their favourite number "Yaya Toure £24 Million, David Silva £24 million, Mario Balotelli £24 Million , Joleon Lescott £24 Million"

Nailz · 24-08-2011 9:42am

Samba wrote: »

You're shocked that city paid over the odds for yet another player? I'm not the slightest bit surprised or shocked, it's what we've come to expect, no?

I don't think he is at all shocked, none of us are I can imagine, he's just itterating what makes City such laughable tools.

Sgt Pepper 64 · 24-08-2011 10:45am

Gents, whos more likely to get more assists\goals\game time

Cleverley or Anderson? Its for FF of course!

thanks

Kylo Ren · 24-08-2011 10:46am

We're selling naming rights to Carrington training ground.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/teams/manchester-united/8719009/Manchester-United-to-offer-Carrington-training-ground-naming-rights-to-sponsors.html

Having secured a ground-breaking sponsorship deal for their training kit, Manchester United’s owners, the Glazer family, are considering selling sponsorship rights to the club’s Carrington training ground.

Carrington, a 108-acre complex comprising 14 pitches and state-of-the-art facilities, is synonymous with the club and the development of young players and naming rights is an option.
Manchester United own the freehold to the complex and, unlike Old Trafford, it was not put up as security in the 2009 bond issue that raised more than £500 million to ease the Glazer’s interest burden on their acquisition debts.
The bond prospectus did allow for Carrington to be sold and leased back to raise finance, but given the remarkable £10 million-a-year training kit deal signed with DHL a naming rights agreement could be lucrative.
DHL’s valuation of the association with United is even more remarkable given that the deal is for domestic football only, and will not give them a presence at United’s Champions League training sessions, which typically offer greater access to broadcasters.

Mitch Connor · 24-08-2011 10:51am

Not something I am in any way opposed to. Assuming Nike are going to be our kit maker for the next while (signing a bumper new sponsorship deal, please) I wouldn't mind United working at the Nike Training Facility.

Kylo Ren · 24-08-2011 11:09am

Mitch Connor wrote: »

Not something I am in any way opposed to. Assuming Nike are going to be our kit maker for the next while (signing a bumper new sponsorship deal, please) I wouldn't mind United working at the Nike Training Facility.

Yup I agree. I'm not too pushed over what they name the training ground. Just stay away from Old Trafford!

Although I wouldn't mind us having a deal with Adidas for the jerseys and it being called Adidas Training Facility (I think Adidas are producing nicer kits than Nike lately).

Mitch Connor · 24-08-2011 11:15am

Keno 92 wrote: »

Yup I agree. I'm not too pushed over what they name the training ground. Just stay away from Old Trafford!

Although I wouldn't mind us having a deal with Adidas for the jerseys and it being called Adidas Training Facility (I think Adidas are producing nicer kits than Nike lately).

Puma for me. End of the day though, I want the best deal for the club, and Nike are likely to be the ones giving that. Will certainly be interesting to see what the Glazers can get out of them - the recent Liverpool deal with Warrior (is that correct?) is possibly higher than what United are currently getting, so I reckon Glazers are going to be looking for a fairly big increase - and they have shown they know how to get 'value' for the United brand.

Giggsy11 · 24-08-2011 11:16am

Keno 92 wrote: »

Yup I agree. I'm not too pushed over what they name the training ground. Just stay away from Old Trafford!

Although I wouldn't mind us having a deal with Adidas for the jerseys and it being called Adidas Training Facility (I think Adidas are producing nicer kits than Nike lately).

Hopefully not. Those 3 stripes for every kit they make :eek:

n32 · 24-08-2011 11:16am

Keno 92 wrote: »

Yup I agree. I'm not too pushed over what they name the training ground. Just stay away from Old Trafford!

Although I wouldn't mind us having a deal with Adidas for the jerseys and it being called Adidas Training Facility (I think Adidas are producing nicer kits than Nike lately).

adidas are in bed with the axis of evil (liverpool and chelsea) so keep them away from our pure team:D.

Kylo Ren · 24-08-2011 11:18am

Mitch Connor wrote: »

Puma for me. End of the day though, I want the best deal for the club, and Nike are likely to be the ones giving that. Will certainly be interesting to see what the Glazers can get out of them - the recent Liverpool deal with Warrior (is that correct?) is possibly higher than what United are currently getting, so I reckon Glazers are going to be looking for a fairly big increase - and they have shown they know how to get 'value' for the United brand.

Yup it's the warriors. They're a Boston based company. Worth £25 million a year. The combination of Nike being one of the largest sporting manufacturers in the world with our jersey sales exceeding Liverpool's I would expect the Glazers to also go all out for this deal.

Jax Teller · 24-08-2011 11:22am

Keno 92 wrote: »

Yup it's the warriors. They're a Boston based company. Worth £25 million a year. The combination of Nike being one of the largest sporting manufacturers in the world with our jersey sales exceeding Liverpool's I would expect the Glazers to also go all out for this deal.

Here is liverpools new kit for next season , Lucas at the front .

Kylo Ren · 24-08-2011 11:24am

^^^^

Scousers come out to play!

VW 1 · 24-08-2011 11:27am

I'd favour Kappa myself they did a lovely job with Valencia's kits last season and Roma's are never too shabby either.

Definitely expecting a record breaking deal from Nike though, when is our jersey sponsorship up for renewal or can it be renewed at any time?

Kylo Ren · 24-08-2011 11:33am

VW 1 wrote: »

I'd favour Kappa myself they did a lovely job with Valencia's kits last season and Roma's are never too shabby either.

Definitely expecting a record breaking deal from Nike though, when is our jersey sponsorship up for renewal or can it be renewed at any time?

Meh don't like the tight fit look off of Kappa and Puma.

It's up in 2015 but I'd say Nike are wary of the amount of investors looking to sponsor us so they will want a deal done soon enough.

Blatter · 24-08-2011 11:34am

VW 1 wrote: »

I'd favour Kappa myself they did a lovely job with Valencia's kits last season and Roma's are never too shabby either.

Definitely expecting a record breaking deal from Nike though, when is our jersey sponsorship up for renewal or can it be renewed at any time?

It's not due to be renewed for a few years but there was whispers that the Glazers are keen to renegotiate the current deal.

Will I Amnt · 24-08-2011 12:13pm

keysersoze_88 wrote: »

Keno 92 wrote: »

Yup it's the warriors. They're a Boston based company. Worth £25 million a year. The combination of Nike being one of the largest sporting manufacturers in the world with our jersey sales exceeding Liverpool's I would expect the Glazers to also go all out for this deal.

Here is liverpools new kit for next season , Lucas at the front .

I thought Glen Johnson got rid of that fro

flahavaj · 24-08-2011 12:14pm

Would ye sell or keep Gibson lads? Do we need him purely as another body in there (pretty much 6th choice) or should Pogba getting those games instead?

I'd be inclined to hang onto him. I realise Pogba has phenomenal talent but to me he's far from ready for first team action yet. He's a big tall lad but he still needs to fill out and while he shows glimpses of brilliance in the final third his all round play and decision making are miles off yet. I'd limit his apearances to substitute run-outs or maybe the odd CC game. I'd still rather Gibson in there in a PL game if needed, limited enoufh as he is.

Giggsy11 · 24-08-2011 12:19pm

flahavaj wrote: »

Would ye sell or keep Gibson lads? Do we need him purely as another body in there (pretty much 6th choice) or should Pogba getting those games instead?

I'd be inclined to hang onto him. I realise Pogba has phenomenal talent but to me he's far from ready for first team action yet. He's a big tall lad but he still needs to fill out and while he shows glimpses of brilliance in the final third his all round play and decision making are miles off yet. I'd limit his apearances to substitute run-outs or maybe the odd CC game. I'd still rather Gibson in there in a PL game if needed, limited enoufh as he is.

I would let him go. Its better for all parties.

Anderson, Cleverley, Carrick, Giggs, Fletcher can play as CMs, we can give that odd sub appearance and CC games to Pogba rather than Gibson.

Blatter · 24-08-2011 12:29pm

flahavaj wrote: »

Would ye sell or keep Gibson lads? Do we need him purely as another body in there (pretty much 6th choice) or should Pogba getting those games instead?

I'd be inclined to hang onto him. I realise Pogba has phenomenal talent but to me he's far from ready for first team action yet. He's a big tall lad but he still needs to fill out and while he shows glimpses of brilliance in the final third his all round play and decision making are miles off yet. I'd limit his apearances to substitute run-outs or maybe the odd CC game. I'd still rather Gibson in there in a PL game if needed, limited enoufh as he is.

I'd prefer to sell him now for 5M rather than lose him for nothing at the end of the season.

I suspect he's rather happy to run down his contract so he can get a better deal from his pick of clubs at the end of the season though.

homerjay2005 · 24-08-2011 12:31pm

flahavaj wrote: »

Would ye sell or keep Gibson lads? Do we need him purely as another body in there (pretty much 6th choice) or should Pogba getting those games instead?

sell him, his attitude stinks.

if we get 3.5 million for him, same for diouf and same for pig, thats 10.5 million for 3 players who we dont need and can spend on somebody else between here and windows end.....

cleverly has taken his spot, now we just need a scholes replacement.

parc · 24-08-2011 12:33pm

I think if gibbo was shipped out and got regular game time in the premiership, he'd turn into a half-decent player for which ever side got him

flahavaj · 24-08-2011 12:35pm

homerjay2005 wrote: »

sell him, his attitude stinks.

if we get 3.5 million for him, same for diouf and same for pig, thats 10.5 million for 3 players who we dont need and can spend on somebody else between here and windows end.....

cleverly has taken his spot, now we just need a scholes replacement.

In what way his attitude homer? He does eesm to hve been pretty poor in pre season even at reserve level.

I would say Cleverley has done more than take his spot though, he'll easily have more starts by Christmas then Gibson managed all season last year.

All joking and codding aside, you must surely acept no one else will be signed at this stage?

Blatter · 24-08-2011 12:40pm

homerjay2005 wrote: »

sell him, his attitude stinks.

if we get 3.5 million for him, same for diouf and same for pig, thats 10.5 million for 3 players who we dont need and can spend on somebody else between here and windows end.....

cleverly has taken his spot, now we just need a scholes replacement.

A bit part player that will start maybe 20 games a season and have minimal impact?

Because that's all Scholes really was for us over the last 2-3 seasons.

I think the idea that 'we need to replace Paul Scholes' is inherently flawed.

flahavaj · 24-08-2011 12:47pm

Blatter wrote: »

A bit part player that will start maybe 20 games a season and have minimal impact?

Because that's all Scholes really was for us over the last 2-3 seasons.

I think the idea that 'we need to replace Paul Scholes' is inherently flawed.

The idea that you could even begin to replace him in his prime is also inherently flawed. You couldn't. You just find someone else who does things a little differently and the team continues to evlove apace. Sure, we're still waiting for Keane and Ronaldo to be "replaced."

killwill · 24-08-2011 12:48pm

Blatter wrote: »

A bit part player that will start maybe 20 games a season and have minimal impact?

Because that's all Scholes really was for us over the last 2-3 seasons.

I think the idea that 'we need to replace Paul Scholes' is inherently flawed.

I think you are really underrating Scholes' contribution, plus I believed he played 33 games last season.

homerjay2005 · 24-08-2011 12:55pm

Blatter wrote: »

A bit part player that will start maybe 20 games a season and have minimal impact?

Because that's all Scholes really was for us over the last 2-3 seasons.

I think the idea that 'we need to replace Paul Scholes' is inherently flawed.

i believe had he started the CL final, we would have had more possession.

scholes in cm > park which is what happened in the final. indeed, i would say a good % of our possession in the final, came with him on the pitch. and, it had nothing to do with barcelona taking their foot off the gas, its not in their style to do that.

@flah, a mate of mine did an interview with gibson about 2 years ago and from then on, i have had it that his attitude is poor. gibson even said it himself, his effort and attitude needed to get better, but looks like it hasnt. alot points towards him having huge wage demandss at sunderland, if JOSH and wesley b can negotiate deals, why the f*ck cant he?

he comes across as a nob to be honest.

that is my opinion of course for all i know, he could have a home for sick puppies and work for the simon community

Blatter · 24-08-2011 12:57pm

killwill wrote: »

I think you are really underrating Scholes' contribution, plus I believed he played 33 games last season.

I said *starts* and I don't believe he made much more than 20 of them.

He was very good for the first month or two of last season but his contribution waned significantly thereafter. He was handy to have but his departure hardly merits widespread calls for a big money replacement.

Blatter · 24-08-2011 1:00pm

Homer, Scholes ability to contribute meaningfully for the last 20 mins in the CL final had everything to do with Barelona taking their foot off the gas.

And it is actually very much their style to do that when they are comfortable in a big game.

flahavaj · 24-08-2011 1:02pm

homerjay2005 wrote: »

i believe had he started the CL final, we would have had more possession.

scholes in cm > park which is what happened in the final. indeed, i would say a good % of our possession in the final, came with him on the pitch. and, it had nothing to do with barcelona taking their foot off the gas, its not in their style to do that.

The problem with that though is would a midfield containing both Giggs and Scholes have had the legs to live with Barca when we didn't have to ball? Even if we had Scholes giving us a little more posession, they's still have dominated it and its a lot to ask a midfield containing a 36 and a 37 year old to that level of work for 90 mins. Theres also a huge difference between looking good in a 20 minute cameo at the end of a game that was long lost and having to perform over 90 minutes. Any time he had started in the months before that he had been pretty poor, especially the semi against City.

Park simply had to play that game IMHO. It would also have been a very odd and unbalanced line up with a midfield of carrick, Scholes, Giggs and Valencia. You would have to think someone would have had to play left and keep an eye on Alves who's, practically a winger himself.

@flah, a mate of mine did an interview with gibson about 2 years ago and from then on, i have had it that his attitude is poor. gibson even said it himself, his effort and attitude needed to get better, but looks like it hasnt. alot points towards him having huge wage demandss at sunderland, if JOSH and wesley b can negotiate deals, why the f*ck cant he?

he comes across as a nob to be honest.

that is my opinion of course for all i know, he could have a home for sick puppies and work for the simon community

He seems to have awful in pre season alright and there are times you would question his workrate in games. Compare that with the energy and desire Cleverley brings to the side.

TheBunk1 · 24-08-2011 1:04pm

flahavaj wrote: »

Would ye sell or keep Gibson lads? Do we need him purely as another body in there (pretty much 6th choice) or should Pogba getting those games instead?

I'd be inclined to hang onto him. I realise Pogba has phenomenal talent but to me he's far from ready for first team action yet. He's a big tall lad but he still needs to fill out and while he shows glimpses of brilliance in the final third his all round play and decision making are miles off yet. I'd limit his apearances to substitute run-outs or maybe the odd CC game. I'd still rather Gibson in there in a PL game if needed, limited enoufh as he is.

I'd sell him if we get an offer. Considering the amount and type of games Gibson would play in, I'd give Pogba his shot instead. This season is somewhat of a transition season, as we've seen from SAF's selections thus far. I'd sacrifice points this season to see the younger lads given a chance to integrate together. I've been really encouraged by SAF giving Cleverley his chance ahead of Carrick. Hope to see him continue in this vein on Sunday against, what will be the weakest Arsenal team we've played in years.

I think a move would be good for Gibson and Ireland too. If he's playing week in week out he could be a decent addition to the Irish midfield, ahead of Andrew's (Jesus wept). Gibson should be thinking of taking that CM spot with the possibility of the Euro's next summer, but I'd question his attitude if he's happy to sit on arse for the season.

keane2097 · 24-08-2011 1:09pm

Gibson is dreadful, beyond dreadful in fact.

We had to pretend he might turn out ok last year because our CM options overall looked so bad, but we may as well come out and admit it now.

If you got 3M for him you'd be mad not to take it.

smokedeels · 24-08-2011 1:09pm

Loan him out to a team that will play him regularly and make the call next summer.

I actualy think he has something.

n32 · 24-08-2011 1:18pm

smokedeels wrote: »

Loan him out to a team that will play him regularly and make the call next summer.

I actualy think he has something.

that would be the most sensible option. loan him to a team where he d be a regular and would have to assume more of a leadership role instead of letting carrick or scholes or fletcher take the responsibility on the field. it would be a shame to sell him and for him to develop into the player he threatened to become. either a loan or else sell him with a buy back clause

Blatter · 24-08-2011 1:23pm

He's in the last year of his contract lads so loaning him makes no sense.

homerjay2005 · 24-08-2011 1:33pm

if we can get 3m for obertan, we should be able to get that and more for gibson, only issue is contract length, though young and nasri have made that trend irrelevant this summer.

sell gibbo and be done and get somebody else in. nothing at all on PIG which is strange, is he destined for a year in the reserves, not even 3rd choice?

smokedeels · 24-08-2011 1:38pm

homerjay2005 wrote: »

if we can get 3m for obertan, we should be able to get that and more for gibson,

I reckon so, a few teams in for him will drive up the price and that homegrown status is worth a few quid extra.

Blatter wrote: »

He's in the last year of his contract lads so loaning him makes no sense.

I wasn't aware, in that case we need to sell, playing a bit-part role is doing nothing for him. I wouldn't mind the club sticking in a buy back clause if it's doable.

flahavaj · 24-08-2011 1:39pm

homerjay2005 wrote: »

if we can get 3m for obertan, we should be able to get that and more for gibson, only issue is contract length, though young and nasri have made that trend irrelevant this summer.

sell gibbo and be done and get somebody else in. nothing at all on PIG which is strange, is he destined for a year in the reserves, not even 3rd choice?

I thought PIG would have gone by now. I'm sure someone will come in for him, he's a decent keeper at a certain level IMO. There will be a huge flurry of activity next week as all this bloody transfer madness somes to and end. He is clearly surplus to requirements at this stage.

The one concern i'd have about gibson leaving is that he started 14 games lst season, including 6 in the PL as our 6th choice midfielder, I wouldn't like to see Pogba have to do the same. I don't think he's ready for that yet. The other 5 lads we have should be able to cover those games though.

Blatter · 24-08-2011 1:43pm

PIG is another one in the last year of his contract and it wouldn't surprise me if he wanted to sit it out and become a free agent next Summer aswell.

ShooterSF · 24-08-2011 2:02pm

I actually think Gibbo is decent technically and if he honed it has a great strike. He just comes across as too comfortable though, as if he considers his development complete. I actually think if he had Fletcher's mentality he could have gone on to develop in a similar vein but I don't see it happening.

JP Liz V1 · 24-08-2011 2:09pm

Any news on Sneijder?

smokedeels · 24-08-2011 2:24pm

JP Liz V1 wrote: »

Any news on Sneijder?

He's meant to be the next Tom Cleverley

homerjay2005 · 24-08-2011 2:27pm

Blatter wrote: »

PIG is another one in the last year of his contract and it wouldn't surprise me if he wanted to sit it out and become a free agent next Summer aswell.

you underestimate his want for first team football, especially with his country hosting the euros in 2012. he was first choice for united for about 3 months when VDS was injured in 09/10 around november/christmas and he won about 10 polish caps as a result. his chances of making the squad now are slim as he is not playing.

he needs first team football.

Pro. F · 24-08-2011 2:38pm

Mitch Connor wrote: »

Not something I am in any way opposed to. Assuming Nike are going to be our kit maker for the next while (signing a bumper new sponsorship deal, please) I wouldn't mind United working at the Nike Training Facility.

Virgin Training Facility would be funnier though.

Blatter wrote: »

I suspect he's rather happy to run down his contract so he can get a better deal from his pick of clubs at the end of the season though.

Ah of course. I'd forgotten it's his last year. That explains why he's not been able to agree wages with the clubs in for him.

You can't discount someone with a great shot like he has, but he is lazy as fùck and other than his shot he offers very little on the ball. I was happy to see how he developed last year, but he just keeps showing himself to be a stroller. If we can I definitely think we should ship him out. Park can do a much better job than him in the centre if we get that badly stuck.

flahavaj · 24-08-2011 2:59pm

Oliver Norwood gone on loan to Scunthorpe till January.

http://uk.eurosport.yahoo.com/24082011/58/league-scunthorpe-loan-norwood-man-united.html

daveyboy_1ie · 24-08-2011 3:11pm

Just as a diversion, anyone reading the linked article today?

http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/david-conn-inside-sport-blog/2011/aug/23/carlos-tevez-legal-battle-revealed

It 'alleges' that they have seen documents confirming City paid £45M to MSI for Tevez's services. I always suspected this however I wondered why when it came to the crunch time the agreed fee of £25.5M was offered and the player refused to sign insisting he was treated badly etc.

I know its water under the bridge and but to me it just stank of 'some of the facts are not being told' at the time and in hindsight if the documents mentioned in the article are legit then the mystery for me is solved. Tevez was persuaded by his representatives to move not to United (
£25.5M fee) but to City (£45M fee) as obviously the profit was much higher on that deal. Now he is either homesick or possibly being persuaded again to seek another bumper pay day for him and his reps.

IMO, Fergies comments earlier this summer that Tevez had told him he always wanted to return to South America and thus would represent no real value in terms of resale value might now be held to be a valid reason. He may well have seen a lot of the behind the scenes action and knew it was for the best to just not play Tevez as much. or maybe I am being biased?

daveyboy_1ie · 24-08-2011 3:22pm

Sorry if my post might look a little messy, because it is

Called away to managers PC to fix an issue. Serves me right to try and do my job and post a coherant post

Manchester United Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread 11/12

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