A 56-year-old British woman has been sentenced to death in Indonesia for drugs

snubbleste · 22-01-2013 11:49AM

It's a [joe duffy]disgrace[/joe duffy]
Some court in some far-away land sentences a person to death for a capital offence and there is absolute outrage
yet
the third in line to the British throne admits he's taken someone's brother/nephew/son/uncle/father/grandfather without any court involvement and it is seen as 'acceptable' in the media.

pickarooney · 22-01-2013 11:53AM

Anyone wrote: »

If you cant respect another countries laws I'd suggest you stay where you are and not travel.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hlEs9udOquE

Dravokivich · 22-01-2013 11:53AM

snubbleste wrote: »

It's a [joe duffy]disgrace[/joe duffy]
Some court in some far-away land sentences a person to death for a capital offence and there is absolute outrage
yet
the third in line to the British throne admits he's taken someone's brother/nephew/son/uncle/father/grandfather without any court involvement and it is seen as 'acceptable' in the media.

Isn't that meant to have been an "act of war?" You are not comparing like with like what so ever. You can say the same about anyone who has any military involvement. They aren't thugs such as those who'd be running these mules back and forth.

hyperborean · 22-01-2013 11:53AM

CreepingDeath wrote: »

Oh the naivety... think of how many murders, assaults, threats, gang warfare and corruption are behind the drugs trade on a daily basis worldwide.

Naivity? your all blase about someone being ended as punishment for drugs smuggling and you call me naive,

easy to say stupid on the internet but you really should get out more, dead is dead.

irishconvert · 22-01-2013 11:53AM

seamus wrote: »

We've spent far too long talking about the poor victimised drug addicts and the big evil drug pushers.

If people didn't want drugs, there'd be no market, there'd be no drug smugglers and pushers. For as long as people continue to want drugs, there will continue to be people who supply them. Kill the demand and you kill the supply. Kill the supply and all you do is build the demand, encouraging more people to try their hand at supplying.

That is a rediculous point of view. That's like saying we should not outlaw paedophilia as it will simply increase the demand. Nonsense. I guarantee if we start public executions for drug dealing in Ireland the drug will disappear from our streets very quickly.

Heroditas · 22-01-2013 11:55AM

biko wrote: »

“I would never have become involved in something like this but the lives of my children were in danger and I felt I had to protect them.”

I don't get this part, how were the children in danger?

Maybe something along the lines of "If you don't smuggle these drugs for us, we'll kill your son/daughter... and don't think of telling the cops or we'll get you"

harry Bailey esq · 22-01-2013 11:55AM

Grimreaper666 wrote: »

Don't do the crime if you can't do the time............ Death penalties are usually the punishment in places like this yet people still break the law. No excuses really.

while i would never advocate the death penalty,laws of said country must be enforced.the woman in question must have known that drugs of any kind,even small amounts of cannabis Will land you with severe penalties in Asian countries.death penalty?no. long sentence?yes.she knew the risk she was taking with this venture.

CrazyRabbit · 22-01-2013 11:56AM

hyperborean wrote: »

She stashed a bag (big as it was) of cocaine and tried to get it past customs. Hardly a fucking hanging offense now?

Savages is all they are, hanging people for murder or rape is one thing but for a few ks of powder........

Not to make light of rape or murder but generally...

Rape destroys 1 life.
Murder destroys 1 life + families life.
Drugs destroys many lives and leads to increases in other crimes commited by addicts.

So please don't trivialise it by saying it's just a few ks's of powder.

pickarooney · 22-01-2013 11:57AM

Heroditas wrote: »

Maybe something along the lines of "If you don't smuggle these drugs for us, we'll kill your son/daughter... and don't think of telling the cops or we'll get you"

Yeah, sounds plausible. I don't think many people would have to think twice about smuggling some coke in those circumstances.

Wibbs · 22-01-2013 11:58AM

irishconvert wrote: »

That is a rediculous point of view. That's like saying we should not outlaw paedophilia as it will simply increase the demand. Nonsense. I guarantee if we start public executions for drug dealing in Ireland the drug will disappear from our streets very quickly.

Mod of Islam might appear to call for public executions? Oh oh. :eek:

Yea like public executions worked in Europe to stop stealing and murder and rape and whatever crime you care to mention. Europe is more safe now than when public executions were a common thing. History has shown it doesn't work.

hyperborean · 22-01-2013 11:59AM

Haha, the same cadre of fools saying "kill the bitch" will be on here in a couple of days moaning about cannabis being illegal and how it is safer than water,

Internet warriors!

Wibbs · 22-01-2013 11:59AM

harry Bailey esq wrote: »

while i would never advocate the death penalty,laws of said country must be enforced.the woman in question must have known that drugs of any kind,even small amounts of cannabis Will land you with severe penalties in Asian countries.death penalty?no. long sentence?yes.she knew the risk she was taking with this venture.

Or maybe shes just not the full shilling brains wise? There are an awful lot of idiots around.

HowAreWe · 22-01-2013 11:59AM

irishconvert wrote: »

Are you talking about being merciless to all the victims of drug dealing and drug related crime.

I see her as a victim.

seamus · 22-01-2013 12:00PM

irishconvert wrote: »

That is a rediculous point of view. That's like saying we should not outlaw paedophilia as it will simply increase the demand.

What?

Nonsense. I guarantee if we start public executions for drug dealing in Ireland the drug will disappear from our streets very quickly.

I guarantee you it wouldn't. If the death penalty is so effective, then why are drugs so popular on the Indonesian party scene?

On the other hand if we start fining people €5k for any kind of drug possession and throwing them in jail for second and third offences, regardless of the quantity in possession, then the demand for drugs will hit the floor and the suppliers will move onto something else.

bucketybuck · 22-01-2013 12:01PM

hyperborean wrote: »

Haha, the same cadre of fools saying "kill the bitch" will be on here in a couple of days moaning about cannabis being illegal and how it is safer than water,

Internet warriors!

Strawman arguments are a piss poor way to get a point across.

srsly78 · 22-01-2013 12:01PM

CreepingDeath wrote: »

I'm not sure how you can think that ?
Maybe I need to set a timeframe... pre-drugs era, say 1950's.
People could leave their doors unlocked, safe to walk the streets at night, no knife crime, young people were more well behaved.

Maybe you're thinking of vikings, countries being invaded etc ?

It's an interesting topic and of course the figures and methodology of the analysis are controversial. Check out the graph on pg 85 of the following for an example: http://www2.warwick.ac.uk/fac/arts/history/postgraduate/ma_studies/mamodules/hi971/topics/interpersonal/long-term-historical-trends-of-violent-crime.pdf

Lots of people did drugs pre-1950s btw. In the 1800s cocaine and heroin were not illegal.

hollster2 · 22-01-2013 12:02PM

CrazyRabbit wrote: »

Not to make light of rape or murder but generally...

Rape destroys 1 life.
Murder destroys 1 life + families life.
Drugs destroys many lives and leads to increases in other crimes commited by addicts.

So please don't trivialise it by saying it's just a few ks's of powder.

really good point crazy rabbit when you look at it through your point

Mint Sauce · 22-01-2013 12:05PM

pickarooney wrote: »

Not one comment on her remark that she did it because her kids' lives were in danger?
Do we know any more about that or should we just ignore it and laugh and point a bit more?

The original OP makes to reference to her kids, although the OP has not referenced it, so we dont know where the story comes from, although the picture used looks very tabloidly

The second thread created, now merged, came from the s*n, unless there is a more reliable source, I wont take too much of what they have to say, nor let it tug on my bleeding heart.

:rolleyes:

Plus, if it is anything to go by, the family obviously seemed to be in involved in matters they shouldn't have been involved in, could she have not just gone to the police if they were in danger.

xwave7000 · 22-01-2013 12:05PM

hyperborean wrote: »

Haha, the same cadre of fools saying "kill the bitch" will be on here in a couple of days moaning about cannabis being illegal and how it is safer than water,

Internet warriors!

And you'll be on here crying about laws from another country that you have NO control over... same internet, different day..:cool:

davet82 · 22-01-2013 12:05PM

irishconvert wrote: »

That is a rediculous point of view. That's like saying we should not outlaw paedophilia as it will simply increase the demand. Nonsense. I guarantee if we start public executions for drug dealing in Ireland the drug will disappear from our streets very quickly.

no its not like that at all, its about education and why people shouldn't take drugs is what he is saying, eliminate the demand and you will eliminate the problem, the punishment angle has failed miserably for last 50 years and you are right the death penalty works a treat as a deterent as seen in this case :rolleyes:

hyperborean · 22-01-2013 12:06PM

bucketybuck wrote: »

Strawman arguments are a piss poor way to get a point across.

Alway gives me a giggle when the kids learn new words,

This is after hours, you want to pretend you are clever go play in Politics or you could actually put some thought into the sentense of death being carried out on someone for being a drugs mule!

Were does it end? do we kill the users as well?

BraziliaNZ · 22-01-2013 12:06PM

davet82 wrote: »

no its not like that at all, its about education and why people shouldn't take drugs is what he is saying, eliminate the demand and you will eliminate the problem, the punishment angle has failed miserably for last 50 years and you are right the death penalty works a treat as a deterent as seen in this case :rolleyes:

But why shouldn't people take drugs? You should be allowed take them if you want. The problem is conservatism and religion etc. I know things wont change, and I guess you should try to respect other countries laws, but it doesn't make them right.

22-01-2013 12:07PM

mahonykid wrote: »

I would imagine its quality over quantity

Even 4.8 kilos of pure cocaine isn't worth 2.5 million US dollars

hollster2 · 22-01-2013 12:08PM

irish-stew wrote: »

The original OP makes to reference to her kids, although the OP has not referenced it, so we dont know where the story comes from, although the picture used looks very tabloidly

I got it from the rte website.

crockholm · 22-01-2013 12:08PM

Wibbs wrote: »

Mod of Islam might appear to call for public executions? Oh oh. :eek: Yea like public executions worked in Europe to stop stealing and murder and rape and whatever crime you care to mention. Europe is more safe now than when public executions were a common thing. History has shown it doesn't work.

But realistically there is nothing that prevents murders,it is an atavistic trait we have, so using it as a claim that it doesn't prevent murders is myopic.
what it certainly does is limit the offenders chance to re-offend to 0%
not saying I agree with it, but certainly ambivilent

seamus · 22-01-2013 12:10PM

BraziliaNZ wrote: »

But why shouldn't people take drugs? You should be allowed take them if you want. The problem is conservatism and religion etc. I know things wont change, and I guess you should try to respect other countries laws, but it doesn't make them right.

Well there are other avenues, such as regulating and legalising drugs.

But the point still stands - supply is driven by demand. To tackle the drugs problem, you need to kill the demand. Whether that be through education, militant enforcement against users, or by legalisation and regulation.

For reference the "drugs problem" as I see it isn't that people take drugs, it's that the consequential effect of people taking drugs is the huge amounts of criminality and murders in the supply chain. The only way can effectively collapse this supply chain is to remove the demand.

Prohibition in the US is the poster child for this;

Rather than reducing crime, Prohibition had transformed the cities into battlegrounds between opposing bootlegging gangs. In a study of over 30 major U.S cities during the prohibition years of 1920 and 1921, the number of crimes increased by 24%. Additionally, theft and burglaries increased by 9%, homicide by 12.7%, assaults and battery rose by 13%, drug addiction by 44.6% and police department costs rose by 11.4%. This was largely the result of “black-market violence” as well as the diverting of law enforcement resources elsewhere. Despite the hope of the prohibitionist movement that the outlawing of alcohol would reduce crime, the reality was that the Volstead Act led to higher crime rates than were experienced prior to prohibition and the establishment of a black market dominated by criminal organizations.

bucketybuck · 22-01-2013 12:10PM

hyperborean wrote: »

Alway gives me a giggle when the kids learn new words,

This is after hours, you want to pretend you are clever go play in Politics or you could actually put some thought into the sentense of death being carried out on someone for being a drugs mule!

Were does it end? do we kill the users as well?

I'm sorry. I know you struggle with clever.

xwave7000 · 22-01-2013 12:10PM

hyperborean wrote: »

Alway gives me a giggle when the kids learn new words,

This is after hours, you want to pretend you are clever go play in Politics or you could actually put some thought into the sentense of death being carried out on someone for being a drugs mule!

Were does it end? do we kill the users as well?

Realisitic argument out the window - let the madness commence!!

ejmaztec · 22-01-2013 12:11PM

I remember when she was first arrested. There was no sympathy from her old neighbours in Cheltenham because her house was a hive of anti-social behaviour and scumbags calling all hours of the day and night. They were glad to see the back of her and didn't give a toss about her being banged up in Indonesia.

BraziliaNZ · 22-01-2013 12:13PM

seamus wrote: »

Well there are other avenues, such as regulating and legalising drugs.

But the point still stands - supply is driven by demand. To tackle the drugs problem, you need to kill the demand. Whether that be through education, militant enforcement against users, or by legalisation and regulation.

For reference the "drugs problem" as I see it isn't that people take drugs, it's that the consequential effect of people taking drugs is the huge amounts of criminality and murders in the supply chain.

But why kill the demand? I know countless amounts of people who imbibe and they live normal lives. It's recreational most of the time for most people.

A 56-year-old British woman has been sentenced to death in Indonesia for drugs

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