Strike On ! Proposed New Junior Cert See Mod Warning Post #1

killbillvol2 · 22-11-2014 1:49am

acequion wrote: »

Sorry to turn people's stomachs just before dinner time, but for anyone not clear on the condescension and sheer arrogance of typical neo liberals like Ed Walsh,with their profit at the expense of people agenda,have a read of this:

http://www.edwalsh.ie/2011/01/

I've reported your post to have the link removed. Adding clicks to this rodent's blog is helping him.

evolving_doors · 22-11-2014 10:15am

killbillvol2 wrote: »

I've reported your post to have the link removed. Adding clicks to this rodent's blog is helping him.

aahhh thanks for reporting but I spse. its not really against the charter to link to webpages of poor standard... I think! unless he has incitement to hatred on it! ...

mod

killbillvol2 · 22-11-2014 1:09pm

killbillvol2 wrote: »

I've reported your post to have the link removed. Adding clicks to this rodent's blog is helping him.

Armelodie wrote: »

aahhh thanks for reporting but I spse. its not really against the charter to link to webpages of poor standard... I think! unless he has incitement to hatred on it! ...

mod

It was a bit tongue in cheek

acequion · 22-11-2014 1:46pm

killbillvol2 wrote: »

I've reported your post to have the link removed. Adding clicks to this rodent's blog is helping him.

killbillvol2,I put it there because there are many people,of whom teachers,most unfortunately,who regularly read threads like this and wonder what all the fuss is about. They think we overact, that we are too militant,trouble makers etc and would like us at each turn to just get on with it,roll over and put our heads in the sand,so to speak. Such apathetic people need to see with their own eyes the real threat teachers,and indeed all workers, face from such individuals as Edward Walsh. Because these are the people who, most regrettably,are influencing policy. Howard Hislop,the chief inspector at the DES and Anne Looney ,of the NCCA,are also of that ilk and by reading the above from Edward Walsh,it is not so hard to figure out where Ruari Quinn was coming from,preposterous and all as it was.

Therefore,people need to read this to realise that teachers are not over reacting. To remove the link would be an over reaction and I'm glad the mods didn't do so. We must put all the facts out there. Our biggest danger is in the apathy of our own collegues and they must be woken up.

RealJohn · 22-11-2014 2:57pm

My understanding is that we are allowed to teach the new course(s) and that our objection has nothing to do with that. After all, courses change. I assume that when they brought the Junior Cert in in the first place all of the courses changed and it wasn't done in a nice, staggered way like this new one is.

The difference is that the Junior Cert didn't introduce a completely new method of assessing, damaging the integrity of the whole examination process, didn't heap a whole lot of extra work on teachers (beyond the extra work that has to come with new courses), didn't expect teachers to implement these changes with almost no training for the new assessment process (since there wasn't one) and no resources to facilitate the change and didn't ask teachers who'd already been screwed over and had their pay cut by the government to take on state marking duties for free.

I will have no problem teaching a new science syllabus next year (though the one they're bringing in is yet another example of our ongoing race to the bottom) but I won't mark my own students for certification and I won't do extra work unpaid in order to facilitate that. I'm doing enough of that as it is.

My point is that we shouldn't be getting distracted from the real issue. The issue isn't that there's a new course coming in. The issue is how it's coming in. Accepting that the new course is inevitable isn't rolling over. Accepting that the new system is inevitable is.

Mardy Bum · 23-11-2014 12:37am

If you are not in a union do you have to take an uncertified day on the day of the strike?

evolving_doors · 23-11-2014 12:51am

Mardy Bum wrote: »

If you are not in a union do you have to take an uncertified day on the day of the strike?

Write a letter to principal stating that you are available to work on that day.

doc_17 · 23-11-2014 10:13am

Stand on the picket line side by side with the people who fund the attempts to defend your pay & conditions. Perhaps at times they haven't acheived al that we would have liked but we'd be a worse place if we didn't have a union. So my advice would be to forget about a sick day. Stand in the picket. You'll only have to do an hour. Don't abandon your colleagues.

km79 · 23-11-2014 12:04pm

Mardy Bum wrote: »

If you are not in a union do you have to take an uncertified day on the day of the strike?

join the union ?

2011abc · 23-11-2014 9:01pm

doc_17 wrote: »

Don't abandon your colleagues.

The union abandoned us years ago .HRA 2 (third vote...) was the last straw for me .They managed to win me a 1700 euro paycut !Im not going to pay for the wages of those who seek to actively undermine teachers' pay and conditions.

doc_17 · 23-11-2014 10:08pm

2011abc wrote: »

The union abandoned us years ago .HRA 2 (third vote...) was the last straw for me .They managed to win me a 1700 euro paycut !Im not going to pay for the wages of those who seek to actively undermine teachers' pay and conditions.

Everyone received that pay cut, not just you. I would have the belief that pre 04 workers abandoned me but it won't do me any good to walk away and then think things will get better all by themselves. If you think that being in a union isn't any real help an that there is a better way to protect or improve our terms and conditions then I respect that. But please tell me what it is. I will help you achieve it.

You can be annoyed and still be a member of the union. Change happens from within. Play the long game. If every pre 04 and post 11 teacher left the union then the government would have carte Blanche to do everything they ever wanted to teachers.

Our strength lies together. Those who don't see that are, in my opinion, naive. And being mislead either by themselves or Ed Walsh. Or else they have a super secret plan that they are reluctant to share.

acequion · 23-11-2014 11:04pm

doc_17 wrote: »

Everyone received that pay cut, not just you. I would have the belief that pre 04 workers abandoned me but it won't do me any good to walk away and then think things will get better all by themselves. If you think that being in a union isn't any real help an that there is a better way to protect or improve our terms and conditions then I respect that. But please tell me what it is. I will help you achieve it.

You can be annoyed and still be a member of the union. Change happens from within. Play the long game. If every pre 04 and post 11 teacher left the union then the government would have carte Blanche to do everything they ever wanted to teachers.

Our strength lies together. Those who don't see that are, in my opinion, naive. And being mislead either by themselves or Ed Walsh. Or else they have a super secret plan that they are reluctant to share.

I really couldn't agree more and I'd even go so far as to say that those harping on about having quit the union after the HRA acceptance are getting rather tiresome at this stage.

We all know that the union sold us out on HRA. We'd all love to get rid of Pat King and have someone who represents us better at the top.Heck,many of us have fought bitterly with them and I'm even still barred from ASTI facebook page. But,when you read the kind of propaganda coming from the likes of Ed Walsh and read Government policy documents about public service reform and what they still hope to bring in - performance related pay,regular performance reviews,liberalisation of public services where schools may have to compete with each other for state funds, it makes me very,very glad that we have a union,flawed though it may be.

So folks,it is up to each one of us to take ownership of the union!! It was never more important than it is now.

2011abc · 24-11-2014 9:35pm

All credit to the above pair of psoters but the ASTI was usurped and ripped off in the early noughties and here we are again ...There IS another alternative , a new union .At an ASTI Fightback meeting proposing /exploring this 30-35 people turned up(including two absolute legends who 'saved' the ASTI the last time it was under siege and conceded it was back to square one again )It would require 1000 signatures @25 euro a head .
So guys ?Are you going to reclaim your union ?Wait for the nice man to leave in his own good time and hope the next guy is better (some stirrings that incoming candidates have an existing track record of non resistance)Or do you want a new union ?
I think there are about 27000 secondary teachers in Ireland .

evolving_doors · 24-11-2014 9:48pm

2011abc wrote: »

All credit to the above pair of psoters but the ASTI was usurped and ripped off in the early noughties and here we are again ...There IS another alternative , a new union .At an ASTI Fightback meeting proposing /exploring this 30-35 people turned up(including two absolute legends who 'saved' the ASTI the last time it was under siege and conceded it was back to square one again )It would require 1000 signatures @25 euro a head .
So guys ?Are you going to reclaim your union ?Wait for the nice man to leave in his own good time and hope the next guy is better (some stirrings that incoming candidates have an existing track record of non resistance)Or do you want a new union ?
I think there are about 27000 secondary teachers in Ireland .

Can you be in 2 unions though?

acequion · 24-11-2014 10:18pm

2011abc wrote: »

All credit to the above pair of psoters but the ASTI was usurped and ripped off in the early noughties and here we are again ...There IS another alternative , a new union .At an ASTI Fightback meeting proposing /exploring this 30-35 people turned up(including two absolute legends who 'saved' the ASTI the last time it was under siege and conceded it was back to square one again )It would require 1000 signatures @25 euro a head .
So guys ?Are you going to reclaim your union ?Wait for the nice man to leave in his own good time and hope the next guy is better (some stirrings that incoming candidates have an existing track record of non resistance)Or do you want a new union ?
I think there are about 27000 secondary teachers in Ireland .

I was there too that day and the general consensus was that as too few were interested,the setting up of a new union had to be shelved. A pity,but the next best thing is the existing unions.

gaeilgebeo · 25-11-2014 10:16pm

Anyone know where the secretarial staff and SNAs stand on Tuesday?

happywithlife · 25-11-2014 10:22pm

gaeilgebeo wrote: »

Anyone know where the secretarial staff and SNAs stand on Tuesday?

I would have thought they'd have to present themselves for work as usual as per their contract. Presume the secretaries have enough work tobe getting on with. Not sure about the sna's If the students are out? I know plenty of schools where they'd be asked to do photocopying or filing etc but don't know how legit that is

gaeilgebeo · 25-11-2014 10:26pm

Yeah, thought as much.
Was just wondering.
We have 22 SNAs and 3 office staff.
Some seemed a bit unsure today.

mirrorwall14 · 25-11-2014 10:29pm

Our secretaries are probably only bloody delighted that they have time to try and catch up. Mental busy in the office all the time.

happywithlife · 25-11-2014 10:29pm

gaeilgebeo wrote: »

Yeah, thought as much.
Was just wondering.
We have 22 SNAs and 3 office staff.
Some seemed a bit unsure today.

22 SNAs 😯

rainbowtrout · 25-11-2014 10:42pm

This is on the Impact website, I'd imagine quite a number of secretaries would be members of this union.

Can't quote as it's a pdf but it basically says that they have to attend work unless told otherwise by their employer.

http://www.impact.ie/wp-content/uploads/2012/04/strikedirective.pdf

seavill · 25-11-2014 11:03pm

happywithlife wrote: »

22 SNAs 😯

+1
??????????? Seriously 22?

gaeilgebeo · 25-11-2014 11:36pm

seavill wrote: »

+1
??????????? Seriously 22?

Yes.
Seriously.
We are a large DEIS school.

The Letheram · 25-11-2014 11:58pm

If they cross a picket they are scabs. Simple as imo. Their union are worthless for recommending that they do it and if I were in your shoes the next time they have a dispute they would know all about it.

rainbowtrout · 26-11-2014 12:07am

The Letheram wrote: »

If they cross a picket they are scabs. Simple as imo. Their union are worthless for recommending that they do it and if I were in your shoes the next time they have a dispute they would know all about it.

I'm actually surprised they have been advised to go to work. It would be normal enough for one union to support another union's strike by telling their members not to pass the picket.

evolving_doors · 26-11-2014 12:31am

The Letheram wrote: »

If they cross a picket they are scabs. Simple as imo. Their union are worthless for recommending that they do it and if I were in your shoes the next time they have a dispute they would know all about it.

In fairness though it's not an all-out strike... chances are most schools will be closed in any event.

Mardy Bum · 26-11-2014 12:33am

The Letheram wrote: »

If they cross a picket they are scabs. Simple as imo. Their union are worthless for recommending that they do it and if I were in your shoes the next time they have a dispute they would know all about it.

I hate this level of vitriol, particularly the word scab. Where were the unions when post 2012 teachers' wages were cut by 25% compared with those entering a few years previous. The vast vast majority of people look out for themselves, unions included and it is hypocritical to pretend otherwise. I'm ASTI btw.

Teacher22 · 26-11-2014 1:00am

I see some schools are participating in CPD training days for new junior cycle. I thought the industrial action had put an end to any CPD to do with the new junior cycle. Can anyone explain why this is?

acequion · 26-11-2014 1:22am

Teacher22 wrote: »

I see some schools are participating in CPD training days for new junior cycle. I thought the industrial action had put an end to any CPD to do with the new junior cycle. Can anyone explain why this is?

What schools and where? Because,yes the union ban on CPD for the new junior cycle is indeed very specific.

Teacher22 · 26-11-2014 1:29am

I follow JCforTeachers on Twitter and they are posting photos and info on the CPD training taking place in Mayo, LAoise, Wexford,Kildare,Carlow,Waterford,DUblin in the last few days even today....Tuesday 25th November

acequion · 26-11-2014 1:33am

Teacher22 wrote: »

I follow JCforTeachers on Twitter and they are posting photos and info on the CPD training taking place in Mayo, LAoise, Wexford,Kildare,Carlow,Waterford,DUblin in the last few days even today....Tuesday 25th November

But are you sure it's to do with the new junior cycle? I honestly don't see how they can do that if they are union members. And even if not union members,it would be very bad form to attend the training while the dispute is ongoing. To me that's like passing a picket.

Teacher22 · 26-11-2014 1:40am

This is what they're tweeting @JCforTeachers: South East Region ... JCT happy to start our journey with schools in Wexford this morning!

Teacher22 · 26-11-2014 1:41am

And there is more of them @JCforTeachers: Evidence of group work! ... JCT working with staff as part of their JC whole school CPD day today in Co. Mayo

Teacher22 · 26-11-2014 1:42am

All dated in the last few days @JCforTeachers: Creating JC 'statements of learning windows' with staff at a whole school CPD seminar in Co. Louth today

Teacher22 · 26-11-2014 1:44am

Posted this morning. @JCforTeachers: JCT is providing Junior Cycle whole-school CPD today for teaching staff in schools in Wexford, Limerick, Mayo & Louth. Busy day ahead :-)

Teacher22 · 26-11-2014 1:47am

If you visit juniorcycle.ie website it shows their tweets. You just have to scroll down. Is this actually happening? Or what's the story. I'm a teacher of english and won't even chat to my colleagues about the new first year specification as "it's against the rules of industrial action" but am I to believe schools are closing for a days training on the new junior cycle?????? Can someone clarify this please

Jamfa · 26-11-2014 2:24am

Teacher22 wrote: »

If you visit juniorcycle.ie website it shows their tweets. You just have to scroll down. Is this actually happening? Or what's the story. I'm a teacher of english and won't even chat to my colleagues about the new first year specification as "it's against the rules of industrial action" but am I to believe schools are closing for a days training on the new junior cycle?????? Can someone clarify this please

The directives are from the ASTI & TUI unions and not all schools offering the junior cycle have members in these unions.

spurious · 26-11-2014 10:18am

Jamfa wrote: »

The directives are from the ASTI & TUI unions and not all schools offering the junior cycle have members in these unions.

Apart from the few special National Schools who offer JC, I can't think of any schools that would not have at least one member in either union.

Godge · 26-11-2014 5:00pm

The Letheram wrote: »

If they cross a picket they are scabs. Simple as imo. Their union are worthless for recommending that they do it and if I were in your shoes the next time they have a dispute they would know all about it.

rainbowtrout wrote: »

I'm actually surprised they have been advised to go to work. It would be normal enough for one union to support another union's strike by telling their members not to pass the picket.

What happened during the ASTI strike? Didn't the TUI tell its members to turn up to work but not to do the work of those who are striking?

irishgrover · 26-11-2014 5:22pm

Armelodie wrote: »

E-voting machines involved the spending of more money...

yea but that debacle was managed by a teacher on a political holiday :P

Jamfa · 26-11-2014 6:31pm

spurious wrote: »

Apart from the few special National Schools who offer JC, I can't think of any schools that would not have at least one member in either union.

So does that not answer the question?

solerina · 26-11-2014 6:32pm

Just wondering are any schools encouraging students to come in? It was suggested at break today that maybe our 6th and 3rd years should come into school next Tuesday....I was flabbergasted to say the least !!!!

I am assuming the answer is no but just wondering....

man_no_plan · 26-11-2014 6:51pm

Etbi have issued advice that schools should close to students due to lack of supervision / health and safety. Cleaners/ snas / office staff should be allowed in.

Caretaker to open and close the school

gaeilgebeo · 26-11-2014 9:24pm

solerina wrote: »

It was suggested at break today that maybe our 6th and 3rd years should come into school next Tuesday.

.

That is outrageous.

2011abc · 26-11-2014 9:54pm

Teacher22 wrote: »

All dated in the last few days @JCforTeachers: Creating JC 'statements of learning windows' with staff at a whole school CPD seminar in Co. Louth today

Statements of learning windows ???????????!!!!!!!!!!!!!!If thats quarter the crock of BS it sounds we're in for a treat ...

Teacher22 · 26-11-2014 10:30pm

I still don't understand why some schools participating in CPD days. I must be stupid...can anyone explain it to me...do the unions know

Benicetomonty · 26-11-2014 10:36pm

Jamfa wrote: »

What extra work? Curricular change is JC English hasn't happened for 25 years so a new syllabus is well due. The school-based assessments involve a 3 min oral presentation at the end of 2nd year & a collection of their written assignments over 2nd & 3rd year. Both of these will take place in normal school time & I can't see how it's much different than what you do already. Much better to have other forms of assessment for English than a written exam in June of 3rd year.

http://levdavidovic.wordpress.com/2014/11/26/the-39-learning-outcomes-for-teachers/?utm_content=buffer403e1&utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter.com&utm_campaign=buffer

Think this just about covers it.

rainbowtrout · 26-11-2014 10:42pm

Teacher22 wrote: »

I still don't understand why some schools participating in CPD days. I must be stupid...can anyone explain it to me...do the unions know

Probably the same people who voted Yes for HRA. I know in my school the principal has submitted our names for CPD. Not something we signed up for individually. I imagine it's going on in other schools too. Also there are plenty of teachers who will roll over on JC Assessment. There was a discussion in my staffroom over break last week and one or two teachers commented in the vein of 'this strike action is such an annoyance and I'm losing a day's pay'. That's the bottom line to them, it's putting them out for a day and one day's pay in the year is what they care about most, not the avalanche of work coming their way if teacher marked assessment is pushed through. For perspective the teachers that made those comments are not on low hours, on low wages. They are on full hours, teaching for long enough.

Teacher22 · 26-11-2014 10:54pm

Should the union not enquire from the union steward within these schools as to their adherence to the industrial action directive

evolving_doors · 26-11-2014 11:34pm

Teacher22 wrote: »

Should the union not enquire from the union steward within these schools as to their adherence to the industrial action directive

Yes they should... but it's up to someone to report them (I know I know)..

Anyhow, this was from a 2010 ASTI Nuacht magazine on an older directive...

"It is important that all members adhere to the directives. ASTI Standing Committee has decided that breaches of the ASTI directives should be formally submitted, in accordance with the Rules and Constitution of the ASTI, to the General Secretary giving details of the breach. "

Strike On ! Proposed New Junior Cert **See Mod Warning Post #1**

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Strike On ! Proposed New Junior Cert See Mod Warning Post #1