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Blackcastle Accident Blackspot

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  • 08-09-2014 6:06pm
    #1
    Buzz Lightyear
    Registered Users Posts: 762 ✭✭✭


    Hi Folks,

    I'm a keen cyclist who recently came off in the middle of a 70k run on the bike at the fairly new bike lane outside of the Blackcastle Estate in Navan en route to Slane. I have heard from neighbours on the morning of my accident a month ago that I wasn't the first. Some lad was taken off seemingly in an ambulance a few days before me after encountering the lethal hidden kerb, along with some girl a few days earlier. I came off on the August Bank Holiday Monday. I've also heard there was a club race/training excercise over the last week or so where three lads came off at the same spot. It was a club event afaik as there was a support car helping out those who came off.

    The reason for the post is to gain feedback on this cycle lane. I have spoken to the Roads Department of Meath Co. Council on the matter who claim that nobody else has complained. Are clubs and people seriously not reporting these accidents ? Its not about claiming, its about making the road safe for us all. If the councils are not aware of these things how are they supposed to be fixed? How many more have to suffer severe road rash and damaged/broken limbs through badly designed and planed cycle lanes ?

    For whats its worth I was cycling on the road and decided to enter the cycle lane, as the road was getting narrow just past the estate entrance. The cycle path from the Round O to the Blackcastle Estate is level all the way along with the road and is marked either orange or black with a thick white line demarcating the road from the cycle lane . However just past the estate entrance the council/NRA have installed a minor kerb of about 1.5 inches tall, in which the lane is coloured orange and the white line blends into the grey concrete. Unaware of the minor change in height of the cycle lane I tried crossing into it .........

    The council need to know about other incidents - and your recommendations for fixing it !! I think it should be leveled.

    Cheer

    Buzz


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    #2
    victorcarrera
    Registered Users Posts: 1,059 ✭✭✭victorcarrera


    Good answer from the roads dept OK. I have had what I can only describe as unbelievably absurd replies from the same dept over getting a few craters repaired. The original problem is more than likely that the lane was installed by incompetent contractors who never rode a bike in their lives and there was no quality control inspection afterwards or it was completed by an incompetent person.
    I find the same problem with the dishing at the entrance to most cycle lanes anyway and if you don't bunny hop on to them or approach them straight you will fall off especially when wet.


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    #3
    ht9zni1gs28crp
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,011 ✭✭✭ht9zni1gs28crp


    Buzz, did you ever hear back from the Council. I too became a cropper on this kerb a few months back. I had the local councillor out to show him what was wrong with the kerb. Nothing has been done about it. The engineer or installer needs shooting.


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    #4
    magicbastarder
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 49,106 CMod ✭✭✭✭magicbastarder


    any chance to stick a link up from google street view?


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    #5
    ht9zni1gs28crp
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,011 ✭✭✭ht9zni1gs28crp


    magicbastarder wrote: »
    any chance to stick a link up from google street view?

    Its not an up to date view of this area.


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    #6
    barney150
    Registered Users Posts: 60 ✭✭barney150


    here are some photos of that cycle track in navan. the kerb is 50mm or 2 inches high. Similar cycles lane being buit in ashbourne at the moment.
    What is the problem with it?


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    #7
    iwillhtfu
    Registered Users Posts: 6,370 ✭✭✭iwillhtfu


    It looks pretty good to me. kerb edge clearly marked on approach and lines all appear to be clear. I'm guessing that the white line could be along the very edge of the path either side maybe that's the ops point. I guess if you tried to move on to the footpath which you probably should avoid doing you could hit the kerb and front end might wash out.

    Good to see a bit of cycle lane with no post/poles/trees or potholes that would be the poster boy of bike lane for meath Co. Co.


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    #8
    ht9zni1gs28crp
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,011 ✭✭✭ht9zni1gs28crp


    This area is seriously flawed. You need to travel the rest of the cycle lane to understand it.

    The red warning bollard has only recently been installed by the way.

    Let me describe it

    Up until Blackcastle Estate (heading towards Slane) entrance the Cycle path is on the same level as the road, its a nice wide clean road so you have no problem using it.

    You can transition in and out of the cycle lane from the road at ease. The footpath adjacent is correct, ie separated from the road/cycle path by way of a correct height kerb.

    Now when you approach the Blackcastle entrance the road narrows due to the centre island that controls traffic speed and orientation. The cycle lane is still separated from the footpath by way of the same kerb BUT also the cycle lane has a very shallow kerb between it and the road, maybe 40mm in depth. So if a cyclist was to transition from the road to the path especially where the road narrows then you are in trouble.

    This is what happened to me, I was travelling at approx. 35-37kmh, I heard a motor behind me and went to move into the cycle lane to allow free passage for both of us, I didn't even see the kerb. next thing I was sliding down the 'red' tarmac being cheese grated.

    Look closely again at the pictures, you can now make out the kerb line from the edge of the cycle path to the road.


    The engineer or installer involoved needs shooting, or put on a bike and experience road rash

    The cycle lane needs to be either on the same level as the footpath and clearly denoted by signage OR the same level as the road and clearly denoted.


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    #9
    barney150
    Registered Users Posts: 60 ✭✭barney150


    Thats a nasty crash, hope you recovered alright. Im familiar with the cycle lane alright. Ive cycled it and if you stay in the cycle lane there is no problem and I think it gives good protection to the cyclist. Similar cycle lanes being built in Ashbourne at the moment.

    If you weave in and out from cycle lane - road - cycle lane then thats a different story. Why were you cycling on the road and not the cycle lane?


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    #10
    ht9zni1gs28crp
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,011 ✭✭✭ht9zni1gs28crp


    barney150 wrote: »
    If you weave in and out from cycle lane - road - cycle lane then thats a different story. Why were you cycling on the road and not the cycle lane?

    From that comment I gather you don't cycle a lot if at all.


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    #11
    Buzz Lightyear
    Registered Users Posts: 762 ✭✭✭Buzz Lightyear


    Hi Miller_63,

    I'm sorry to hear you became a cropper on this spot too. I was in touch with the council up until late last year about getting it resolved. The engineer in charge was more concerned with seeing if others had a similar experience rather than being proactive. He was putting the blame onto the NRA for their guidelines as to how it was built. I've been meaning to give them a buzz to follow up before I take it legal - a route I was hoping to avoid if they had fixed it in a timely manner. However with this being 8 months down the line I don't hold out much hope. I'll pass you on details by PM as to who to contact in relation to this. It will save you getting the run around.

    Philip


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    #12
    Buzz Lightyear
    Registered Users Posts: 762 ✭✭✭Buzz Lightyear


    miller_63 wrote: »
    Buzz, did you ever hear back from the Council. I too became a cropper on this kerb a few months back. I had the local councillor out to show him what was wrong with the kerb. Nothing has been done about it. The engineer or installer needs shooting.

    Hi Miller_63,

    It seems the people to blame for the kerb are actually the NTA and the folks behind the National Cycle Manual. Its from these that the councils and engineers get their instructions.

    I'm going to try to contact some of the higher names in the document to push this further as unfortunately it may seem like some of these bodies and names may have deaf ears.


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    #13
    ht9zni1gs28crp
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,011 ✭✭✭ht9zni1gs28crp


    Had a quick peek through it Buzz...

    The problem with the Blackcastle cycle lane is that its not consistant...why isn't it at 50mm above the road in its entirety rather than one section in a higher speed zone.

    Also this kerb is causing problems for motorists, a friend of the family drives an ambulance and states they cannot negotiate that bend without hitting the 50mm kerb.

    The designer needs shooting....


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    #14
    tigerboon
    Registered Users Posts: 721 ✭✭✭tigerboon


    There may or may not be a case for a raised cycle path but a bevelled kerb could be used. These are common on the road network. Would a 45 degree bevel be enough to let a bike transition safely?


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    #15
    iwillhtfu
    Registered Users Posts: 6,370 ✭✭✭iwillhtfu


    A bevelled kerb doesn't work in my experience. I hit one of those small round abouts that had a raised circle about 25mm with a bevelled edge and front wheel washed out. Luckily it was wet so I slid but I'd imagine something similar happened to the op.

    Skinny tyres don't traverse anything at an angle particularly well fine if you hit an object head in but you have to bunny hop up onto kerbs etc.

    I think they're trying to implement a segregated bike path but it's a half hearted attempt and as there's no standard deign cyclists won't be aware of which ones do and don't have this raised platform.

    I don't think theres an legal claim to be made unless there's a design which has been deemed a standard and thus hasn't been followed here. Perhaps there is I don't know.


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    #16
    DaithiMC
    Registered Users Posts: 349 ✭✭DaithiMC


    iwillhtfu wrote: »
    A bevelled kerb doesn't work in my experience. I hit one of those small round abouts that had a raised circle about 25mm with a bevelled edge and front wheel washed out. Luckily it was wet so I slid but I'd imagine something similar happened to the op.

    Skinny tyres don't traverse anything at an angle particularly well fine if you hit an object head in but you have to bunny hop up onto kerbs etc.

    I think they're trying to implement a segregated bike path but it's a half hearted attempt and as there's no standard deign cyclists won't be aware of which ones do and don't have this raised platform.

    I don't think theres an legal claim to be made unless there's a design which has been deemed a standard and thus hasn't been followed here. Perhaps there is I don't know.

    I know one pro who would agree......


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    #17
    roverrules
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 331 ✭✭roverrules


    miller_63 wrote: »
    This area is seriously flawed. You need to travel the rest of the cycle lane to understand it.

    The red warning bollard has only recently been installed by the way.

    Let me describe it

    Up until Blackcastle Estate (heading towards Slane) entrance the Cycle path is on the same level as the road, its a nice wide clean road so you have no problem using it.

    You can transition in and out of the cycle lane from the road at ease. The footpath adjacent is correct, ie separated from the road/cycle path by way of a correct height kerb.

    Now when you approach the Blackcastle entrance the road narrows due to the centre island that controls traffic speed and orientation. The cycle lane is still separated from the footpath by way of the same kerb BUT also the cycle lane has a very shallow kerb between it and the road, maybe 40mm in depth. So if a cyclist was to transition from the road to the path especially where the road narrows then you are in trouble.

    This is what happened to me, I was travelling at approx. 35-37kmh, I heard a motor behind me and went to move into the cycle lane to allow free passage for both of us, I didn't even see the kerb. next thing I was sliding down the 'red' tarmac being cheese grated.

    Look closely again at the pictures, you can now make out the kerb line from the edge of the cycle path to the road.


    The engineer or installer involoved needs shooting, or put on a bike and experience road rash

    The cycle lane needs to be either on the same level as the footpath and clearly denoted by signage OR the same level as the road and clearly denoted.

    Is the kerb between the cycle lanes supposed to prevent incursions onto the cycle lane from motorised traffic on the narrower sections, if so i dont see how you can allow for cyclists switching back and forth, if you lower the kerb traffic might cross, if you dont cyclists might fall


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    #18
    Traumadoc
    Registered Users Posts: 2,523 ✭✭✭Traumadoc


    I did a medical report recently for a cyclist who came off as a result of hitting a kerb on the entrance to a cycle lane. basically there was a 2 cm step , that he hit at an angle..


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    #19
    ht9zni1gs28crp
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,011 ✭✭✭ht9zni1gs28crp


    Traumadoc wrote: »
    I did a medical report recently for a cyclist who came off as a result of hitting a kerb on the entrance to a cycle lane. basically there was a 2 cm step , that he hit at an angle..

    All elbows and knees I guess?


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    #20
    Traumadoc
    Registered Users Posts: 2,523 ✭✭✭Traumadoc


    No, fractured scaphoid , cast for 3 months , unable to work for 4 months.


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    #21
    iwillhtfu
    Registered Users Posts: 6,370 ✭✭✭iwillhtfu


    Declan Greasy Nitrogen wrote: »
    All elbows and knees I guess?

    It could easily be pelvis/collar bone/fractured skull (no helmet) freak accidents happen unfortunately.


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