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Home Owner Looking for Advice Before Renting a Room

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  • 16-07-2014 12:43pm
    #1
    kjbsrah1
    Registered Users Posts: 242 ✭✭


    Hi, I've had a look through this thread but can't find a similiar query - feel free to tell me where it is as i'm sure its on here somewhere....

    My query is, i have a room ready to rent in a house i live in myself in Drogheda. Its a large double room with ensuite. Its a lovely room really. I own the house - need to rent to help pay the mortgage for about 2 years.

    I've rented myself for 20 years and rarely had any issues with landlords. But now that i am in the situation of being a tenant, what are the suggestions for vetting prospective tenants?

    Also, if someone moves in and proves to be a nightmare - don't really have an example of what i mean other than them not paying rent on time or bills, is it difficult to get someone to leave? I think from reading the tenancy section of the Citizens Advice site that as the landlord is living in the house that the rules of other rentals do not apply.

    Anyone any thoughts? And apologies if i am asking what has already been asked and answered - just point me to the other thread... Thanks


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    #2
    odds_on
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,869 ✭✭✭odds_on


    kjbsrah1 wrote: »
    I've rented myself for 20 years and rarely had any issues with landlords. But now that i am in the situation of being a tenant, what are the suggestions for vetting prospective tenants?

    ... Thanks
    Landlord, I presume?

    You will not have a tenant but a licensee (also called a lodger).

    Any occupant that you accept into your home is a licensee; that is, the occupant is living with you under a licence from you. You may withdraw that licence at any time and for any reason which you do not have to state.

    There are very few laws for renting a room in your own home. There is an accepted period (a reasonable time) for a notice for vacating (by either landlord or licensee/lodger) - rent monthly then notice period of 1 month, weekly rent then 1 week's notice.

    Try to get someone who will be comfortable with your life style. Someone who likes to party/drink/likes loud music may not suit you. Also if the person works early/late hours, this might disturb your routine.

    You should have a set of house rules which may include:
    The notice period
    Smoking is allowed or not
    If the lodger can have visitors stay overnight and if so, how many nights a week/month is acceptable for you
    Leave the kitchen clean and tidy after using it.
    If dishes and plates can be left to dry on a rack or if plates etc should be dried and put away.
    Leave the living room clean and tidy after use.
    Switch off any electric appliances after use (Cooker, TV etc.)
    Locking doors on leaving the house (house security)

    It is your house and home and you can make any rules you want. You can, if you feel threatened, intimated by your lodger, or if the lodger is antisocial, or the lodger has breached any security of the house, ask him/her to vacate with immediate effect.

    You could have a written licence agreement but when renting a room in your own home this is rare.


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    #3
    The_Morrigan
    Moderators Posts: 9,368 ✭✭✭The_Morrigan


    As an owner occupier you are renting under the Rent a Room Scheme info on this can be found here


    You are correct in your thinking that you are not subject to the tenancy laws.
    As a best practice you should be very upfront about your expectations for the setup - notably payment of rent/bills (note you must disclose all monies received to revenue so best bet to have a fixed amount per month); discussions about guest/partners staying over; expectations on housework & generally acceptance of tidiness/untidiness in your home.
    For vetting, you are entitled to ask for references from previous landlords and proof of income (a letter from their employer should suffice). I've always found having a chat over a cup of tea as a great way to vet tenants, they get a feel for you and vice versa. As them about their timetable, opposing lifestyles oftentimes won't work (so if they work nights or shift work, would you be tiptoeing around the house while they slept?) If you're a homebird, would a party animal suit?
    You also have to be conscious that your schedule may have to change & compromises reached with regards to shower times, laundry etc.

    Some other things to note:
    They are not your best friend, so keep some distance from them;
    They have a right to be there if they are paying rent, so don't pull the 'this is my house' line;
    Your lodger has no rights and no recourse and oftentimes this puts off people, so the rental rate is not likely to be the market rate.
    Set up a separate account to receive rent - this makes it easier if revenue ever do an audit.


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    #4
    Aye Bosun
    Registered Users Posts: 349 ✭✭Aye Bosun


    Great advise from the above posters. I've been renting rooms out in my house for 2.5 years very successfully. Great way to make a bit of extra cash. You should have a read of the below link if you have not already.

    http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/housing/owning_a_home/home_owners/rent_a_room_scheme.html

    I would strongly suggest you consider using a licensee agreement, which sets out the T&C for both parties. I find it very useful if any issues arise, as it let both parties know where they stand..if you want a copy of the one I use PM me your address and I will send on the template.

    Good luck!


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    #5
    The_Morrigan
    Moderators Posts: 9,368 ✭✭✭The_Morrigan


    If you're going to use a template of a licence agreement - make sure you engage the services of a solr to ensure that the agreement is legal and enforceable. Using an agreement you open yourself up to being sued for a breach of contract.


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    #6
    Aye Bosun
    Registered Users Posts: 349 ✭✭Aye Bosun


    The_Morrigan wrote: »
    If you're going to use a template of a licence agreement - make sure you engage the services of a solr to ensure that the agreement is legal and enforceable. Using an agreement you open yourself up to being sued for a breach of contract.


    There is no need to get a solicitor involved with this at all. It simple..the licensee is in your home at your invitation. They actually have zero rights, you can ask them to leave at any time without any reason. The licensee agreement just sets out the terms for rent and deposit, payment method and dates of same, rules of the house etc. It is just handy tool so everyone is singing the same song. More guidelines for living with each other :)


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    #7
    The_Morrigan
    Moderators Posts: 9,368 ✭✭✭The_Morrigan


    Aye Bosun wrote: »
    There is no need to get a solicitor involved with at all. It simple..the licensee is in your home at your invitation. They actually have zero rights, you can ask them to leave at any time without any reason. The licensee agreement just sets out the terms for rent and deposit, payment method and dates of same, rules of the house etc. It is just handy tool so everyone is singing the same song. More guidelines for living with each other :)

    That is very much up for debate. I wouldn't dream of signing a document without first ensuring that it is legally sound, neither would I ask another person to sign an agreement unless they had gotten their own advice on it. Especially seeing as the agreement would be outside the remit of tenancy law, Threshold and the PRTB.

    I agree that you can ask them to leave at any time, that is of course unless you've written something into an agreement, in which case you must adhere to that. You can't just draw up an agreement and then ignore it when it suits you.
    If it's just House Rules and emergency contact numbers, then it doesn't need to be an agreement, you can just print it out and avoid the contract element altogether.
    If you go down an agreement/contract route - you should consult a solr to ensure you are both covered.


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    #8
    Aye Bosun
    Registered Users Posts: 349 ✭✭Aye Bosun


    The agreement is outside the tenancy law, Threshold and the PRTB..they have zero imput in the Rent a Room Scheme.

    I suggest you have a read of the link I supplied above, here a snip it for you..

    'If you rent out a room in your home, you are not covered by landlord and tenant legislation so the rights and obligations under that legislation do not apply to you. For example, you are not obliged to register as a landlord with the Private Residential Tenancies Board (PRTB), provide a rent book to the tenant or ensure that the accommodation provided meets any minimum physical standards'

    I don't understand why you think I have drawn up an agreement and ignored bits when it suits..bit of leap there and I feel you are attacking me for giving some solid advise.

    Again from the link I provide above..

    Before you arrange to rent out a room in your home, it is strongly recommended that you and the tenant agree some ground rules and put them in writing. If you and your tenant each sign and keep a copy of this agreement, you can both refer to its terms in the event of confusion or disagreement. These ground rules might include:

    How long is the tenancy going to last?
    How much notice will you or your tenant have to give if either of you chooses to end the tenancy?
    How much rent will the tenant pay and how often (for example, weekly, monthly)?
    How will this rent be paid (cash, cheque, standing order etc.)?
    When will the rent be reviewed and how much notice will you give the tenant of a rent review?
    How are utility bills (electricity, gas, phone) to be divided between you and the tenant?
    Will the tenant be expected to contribute towards service charges, such as water and refuse charges?
    Can the tenant have visitors to stay overnight?
    Are there any restrictions regarding noise levels?


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    #9
    The_Morrigan
    Moderators Posts: 9,368 ✭✭✭The_Morrigan


    Aye Bosun I'm aware of the law, I am an owner occupier myself and a law graduate. My point is that any agreement should (best practice for all people involved) always be reviewed by a professional in the field to ensure it is sound. I did not mention your specific agreement or your specific actions. It was further advice to the OP if they go down the route of having a contract in place, then it would be a good idea to have that reviewed by a solr so it is enforceable.


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    #10
    Aye Bosun
    Registered Users Posts: 349 ✭✭Aye Bosun


    The_Morrigan wrote: »
    That is very much up for debate. I wouldn't dream of signing a document without first ensuring that it is legally sound, neither would I ask another person to sign an agreement unless they had gotten their own advice on it. Especially seeing as the agreement would be outside the remit of tenancy law, Threshold and the PRTB.

    I agree that you can ask them to leave at any time, that is of course unless you've written something into an agreement, in which case you must adhere to that. You can't just draw up an agreement and then ignore it when it suits you.
    If it's just House Rules and emergency contact numbers, then it doesn't need to be an agreement, you can just print it out and avoid the contract element altogether.
    If you go down an agreement/contract route - you should consult a solr to ensure you are both covered.
    The_Morrigan wrote: »
    Aye Bosun I'm aware of the law, I am an owner occupier myself and a law graduate. My point is that any agreement should (best practice for all people involved) always be reviewed by a professional in the field to ensure it is sound. I did not mention your specific agreement or your specific actions. It was further advice to the OP if they go down the route of having a contract in place, then it would be a good idea to have that reviewed by a solr so it is enforceable.

    I think we should agree to disagree then.


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    #11
    The_Morrigan
    Moderators Posts: 9,368 ✭✭✭The_Morrigan


    Aye Bosun wrote: »
    I think we should agree to disagree then.

    Sweet Mother of Jesus...You do realise that the use of the word "you" in that instance was not aimed specifically at you, but used a as general term. :rolleyes:
    you

    pronoun
    1. used to refer to the person or people that the speaker is addressing.
    "are you listening?"

    2. used to refer to any person in general.
    "after a while, you get used to it"


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    #12
    Aye Bosun
    Registered Users Posts: 349 ✭✭Aye Bosun


    The_Morrigan wrote: »
    Sweet Mother of Jesus...You do realise that the use of the word "you" in that instance was not aimed specifically at you, but used a as general term. :rolleyes:

    Get off you high horse there Morrigan..I was politely ending our conversation with you..I couldn't be arsed arguing with a Law Graduate who thinks he knows it all!


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    #13
    odds_on
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,869 ✭✭✭odds_on


    Again from the link I provide above..

    Before you arrange to rent out a room in your home, it is strongly recommended that you and the tenant agree some ground rules and put them in writing. If you and your tenant each sign and keep a copy of this agreement, you can both refer to its terms in the event of confusion or disagreement. These ground rules might include:
    Again, citizens information are not correct in every respect - The say, twice in the same paragraph: If you and your tenant ..."

    There is no tenant, the occupant is a licensee or lodger.

    By writing tenant, it gives the impression of a tenancy agreement and the RTA 2004.


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    #14
    kjbsrah1
    Registered Users Posts: 242 ✭✭kjbsrah1


    Thank you so much to each of you who have replied. Great to get feedback and advice from people who are currently doing what i am about to do :)

    I've never had any sort of agreement or similiar in any of the places i've lived as a tenant - not anywhere that the landlord has also been living also.... But i think the idea of setting down ground rules does make sense.

    I guess the onus is on me to know who/what i want - the type of person i would be happy to live with.... Plenty of ideas there so thank you all again so very much.

    Back to the last bit of painting now before i take a few photos and put the ad on Daft :) Thank you :)


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    #15
    Leogirl
    Registered Users Posts: 455 ✭✭Leogirl


    OP I've rented out a spare room in my house to a few different people & I've never had any trouble.

    I often rent out to a student for 1 - 3 months as it suits me not to let it all year round. Just now & then for extra cash. This way it means that if things arent exactly perfect (are they ever when sharing), its only for a short period so its much easier to be patient.

    Check out easyroommate.ie, theres lots of students looking for rooms.

    I've also rented longer term to professionals & I think it is better to try to get to know them a little, maybe have a cuppa when sorting the deposit/house rules etc before moving in. You can get a good feeling for a person fairly quickly I think.


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    #16
    makeorbrake
    Registered Users Posts: 4,664 ✭✭✭makeorbrake


    Run a search on here for previoius threads. There are plenty of examples of relevant info to the rent-a-room gig.


    Someone said these people will not be your friends - and this is a tough one. What they meant of course was correct. However, when you live alongside your lodgers, it can be a very difficult position. You'll find 1001 examples here of lodgers who were dissatisfied with their owner occupier landlord - often because of house rules or because they feel they don't have an equal share within the house.

    From the owner occupiers point of view, they have to be the ones who deal with house rules, bills and any problems that arise -they have no choice.


    I don't think you need any written agreement - and alongside that, the expense of a solicitor. If there's an issue that can't be resolved, then the onus is on the lodger to leave - or you can invite them to leave. This can also be a difficulty. i.e. if you're in a house with a lodger that resents you - yet they won't fix the situation i.e. go somewhere else. It's not as if you can.

    Be aware that nobody will treat your home and it's furnishings as good as you will. You may also (most likely) find that you will be going around tidying up after others - I'm afraid thats just part and parcel of it.

    As regards determining the type of candidate that would best suit, it can be very difficult to do. You don't really get a decent knowledge of a lodger until they've already moved in a week or two. Someone said to be up front - and I would second that. Make sure you make them fully aware of what your expectations are with regard to rent, bills, house rules, etc. Let them never be able to say they were never advised of any of these things from the outset. Likewise, encourage them to outline what exactly they are looking for in a house share.


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    #17
    JustAThought
    Registered Users Posts: 5,324 ✭✭✭JustAThought


    I no longer allow short term rents or no deposit rents regardless of how putiful the story - just run a mile.

    I now request a deposit of more than the rent to cover someone running off and leaving unpaid bills - happened to me - dreadful. So for a 450 room the deposit is e650... If they don't have the cash flow of e200 will they be able to pay their share of UPC/gas/electricity/ bin charges etc.

    The new water charges are going to be a horrendous nightmare to cost & adjudicate. I said IN My AD ( and kept a screen grab copy) that this would apply immediately once it came in as an extra charge & as the fees were as yet unknown I wasn't yet in a position to specify what but that it would have to be charged for & possibly a water charge deposit added. I'm thanking God I did as half hour showers and 3 baths a week are her norm....& it seems that the bills will be consumed based & only paid every : months or 6 months- perhaps.

    I always screen potential people that i think I would actually like to share with by giving them some space to check out the room & test the bed after I have shown them round, I then go & put in the kettle & offer a cup of tea when the come downstairs & we have a chat - if they're not interested at this point they usually will have to go & won't stay for tea!, if they do it just gives you an extra 10 minutes to get an idea of what they are like & if you might get on. Simple stuff like did you find it easily, do you know this part of the city , I go to the gym 2 nights a week up the road / local sports club what do you play /do ... Etc can be good general icebreakers & keep it light. often this can give insights & that extra edge to let you see if you might get on.

    I put as much info as poss into the ad/ pre email so they know without being militant - no smoking house, all bills inc water shared, professional preferred, etc., no DSW sorry.. Etc... Just makes it easier

    I always now say reference checks cos I hope it will put off people with none cos they' ve done a runner on their last bills...

    Overall sharing is give & take & for the cash flow and financial security you get you have to take some bad with the good ... I always put in double room for single use only clearly - I never specified rules about overnights but this gives me the absolute option to bring it up if someone annoying O/H keeps appearing, or disses on the couch with the heat on from m-f cos they don't have
    a job, or starts staying over every other night. That has always been enough - and I make it clear again in our pre- handing over depisit chat / agreement. From time to time naturally you can have someone stay over but it is for single occupancy only. Thank God I've never had issues there : )

    I often keep it easy at the start with rules other than the rent payment ,bill payment, parking, smoking & overnighting & suggest that we can check at the end of the month & chat of there are big problems and if we both find it's a total unfixable disaster we can walk away from it & hand back the deposit. It's never come to that,

    I do try and see how long they are planning to stay - Its usually a year ( or whatever suites if its an academic year) when they move in, it's helpful to have that as a ballpark so that if you want to move them on after a year you can do so easily, or change the terms ( rent), or to get someone different in it gives you scope and no one is hurt or traumatised. Mine have stayed years on a roll-over so that's worked for me!

    I always make space in the fridge, freezer & presses & show where the person who shares will have to put their stuff in the kitchen ...The person who shares will have this space for ... Helps a lot & sets boundaries that are clear but not too militantly expressed!!!

    Have fun & happy flatmate hunting : )


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    #18
    athtrasna
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,420 ✭✭✭✭athtrasna


    I'm also going down the route of getting a lodger in. Finally got it sorted tonight. They have asked for a contract, but I'm not sure what to put in an agreement. I know it's not a contract and I don't want a Sheldon Cooper type crazy agreement, anyone got a simple one pager?


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    #19
    The_Morrigan
    Moderators Posts: 9,368 ✭✭✭The_Morrigan


    athtrasna wrote: »
    I'm also going down the route of getting a lodger in. Finally got it sorted tonight. They have asked for a contract, but I'm not sure what to put in an agreement. I know it's not a contract and I don't want a Sheldon Cooper type crazy agreement, anyone got a simple one pager?

    They are looking to create a contract as they don't have any rights under the RTA...I'd tell them where to go unless they were willing to pay any legal fees from having a legal document drawn up.


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    #20
    athtrasna
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,420 ✭✭✭✭athtrasna


    The_Morrigan wrote: »
    They are looking to create a contract as they don't have any rights under the RTA...I'd tell them where to go unless they were willing to pay any legal fees from having a legal document drawn up.

    I don't think so in this case. I told him it wasn't a case for a formal contract but I think a one page stating rent, payment date, bill split (allowing for water charges), security notes (always locking door and setting alarm) are the main things?


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    #21
    The_Morrigan
    Moderators Posts: 9,368 ✭✭✭The_Morrigan


    athtrasna wrote: »
    I don't think so in this case. I told him it wasn't a case for a formal contract but I think a one page stating rent, payment date, bill split (allowing for water charges), security notes (always locking door and setting alarm) are the main things?

    Just hand them a sheet of house rules....as soon as you both sign it then it becomes a contract and he can sue you for breach of contract if it all goes wrong, you also lose the right to feck them out immediately if you have anything about a notice period in that. The scheme is not a tenancy and doesn't follow the same rules and licence agreements need a lot of discretionary language and get out clauses.


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    #22
    athtrasna
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,420 ✭✭✭✭athtrasna


    The_Morrigan wrote: »
    Just hand them a sheet of house rules....as soon as you both sign it then it becomes a contract and he can sue you for breach of contract if it all goes wrong, you also lose the right to feck them out immediately if you have anything about a notice period in that. The scheme is not a tenancy and doesn't follow the same rules and licence agreements need a lot of discretionary language and get out clauses.

    This page on citizens information disagrees and says something should be signed http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/housing/owning_a_home/home_owners/rent_a_room_scheme.html


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    #23
    The_Morrigan
    Moderators Posts: 9,368 ✭✭✭The_Morrigan


    athtrasna wrote: »
    This page on citizens information disagrees and says something should be signed http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/housing/owning_a_home/home_owners/rent_a_room_scheme.html

    They also refer to the licencee as a tenant in the same paragraph which is also wrong. The scheme is supposed to be flexible for the homeowner, there are no rights or obligations... If you create a contract you create rules and obligations and you may as well adhere to the RTA, you also have yourselves falling under the remit of contract law which is a friggin nightmare.


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    #24
    the_syco
    Registered Users Posts: 37,297 ✭✭✭✭the_syco


    athtrasna wrote: »
    I'm also going down the route of getting a lodger in. Finally got it sorted tonight. They have asked for a contract, but I'm not sure what to put in an agreement. I know it's not a contract and I don't want a Sheldon Cooper type crazy agreement, anyone got a simple one pager?
    Don't give the licensee a lease. If you give them a lease, and stipulate a 30 day notice, this may backfire if the licensee turns out to be a ****. But if they're a licensee, they can leave at a whim, but you can get rid of them on a whim also.

    In short; they want a lease as it'll give them more rights.

    For a licensee, house rules, yay, lease or contract, nay.


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