PC Upgrade for €500

the_syco · 14-11-2013 7:17pm #1

1. What is your budget? €500'ish

2. What will be the main purpose of the computer? Gaming/Video editing/Photoshop
BF4, ARMA3, etc.

3. Do you need a copy of Windows? No

4. Can you use any parts from an old computer?
Case: full tower Cooler Master Cosmos 1000 (very quite, would like to stay with this)
Soundcard: Creative SB X-Fi Xtreme Gamer Fatal1ty Professional, 64MB
SSD: Corsair Force GT 120GB
HDDs: 1TB, 1.5TB, 4TB
IDE DVD writer (would prefer to ditch this and just get a SATA DVD writer)

Currently running a quad Q9550 with a Thermalright "TRUE 120" heatsink

5. Do you need a monitor? No

5a. If yes, what size do you need. N/A

5b. If no, what resolution is your current monitor and do you plan to upgrade in the near future? 1680*1050 (Samsung Syncmaster 226BW) Don't intend to upgrade for the next while.

6. Do you need any of these peripherals? No

7. Are you willing to try overclocking? Yes. Open to the idea, but due to poor ventilation, would probably need water cooling to do so.

8. How can you pay? Bank Transfer/Credit Card

9. When are you purchasing? 15th December, to ensure I get it by xmas. Yes, a long way off, but hope to get most of it soon, unless something "big" is coming?

10. If you need help building it, where are you based? No thanks

the_syco · 18-11-2013 10:56am

Anyhoos, one of the lads, Grim, suggested this build;

£155 Asus GeForce GTX 660 DirectCU II OC 2048MB GDDR5 PCI-Express Graphics Card
£116 AMD Piledriver FX-8 Eight Core 8320 Black Edition 3.50GHz (Socket AM3+) Processor - Retail
£105 Gigabyte 990FXA-UD3 AMD 990FX (Socket AM3+) DDR3 Motherboard
£66 Avexir MPower Yellow Series 8GB (2x4GB) DDR3 PC3-12800C9 1600MHz Dual Channel Memory Kit
£442 (about €527 according to xe.com)

TerrorFirmer · 18-11-2013 12:09pm

Don't forget a decent CPU cooler for that 8320, you'll need it for OC'ing, it's worth bringing it to at least 8350 speeds, though not crucial admittedly. Otherwise, nothing wrong with that build exactly, value for money wise maybe look at some 7870 models, quite a few can be gotten in that price range and I'd tend to consider it a better buy than the 660 (and you have the Mantle aspect, however that may unfold).

the_syco · 18-11-2013 2:17pm

TerrorFirmer wrote: »

Don't forget a decent CPU cooler for that 8320, you'll need it for OC'ing, it's worth bringing it to at least 8350 speeds, though not crucial admittedly.

Would sticking with the current TRUE 120 suit? I'd just need the AM3 bracket if so.

TerrorFirmer · 19-11-2013 2:09am

I don't see why not, to be honest the 8320 at stock is totally fine, but OC'ing really adds value beyond its cost - I'm sure that cooler is fine, could hardly be worse than the pathetic stock cooler.

BloodBath · 19-11-2013 8:28am

For around the same money you could get a Haswell xeon and a 7870.

You won't have to worry about overclocking it then and it's still going to beat the 8320 in just about everything.

It comes with no cooler though. Will the true spirit fit a 1150 board?

Item|Price
Intel Xeon E3-1230v3 Bx, LGA1150, ohne Kühler|€217.74
MSI B85-G41 PC Mate, ATX, Sockel 1150|€66.43
8GB-Kit G.Skill RipJaws PC3-10667U CL9|€71.28
MSI R7870-2GD5T/OC, 2048MB DDR5, PCI-Express|€154.42
Shipping|€18.99
Total|€528.86

the_syco · 19-11-2013 12:08pm

BloodBath wrote: »

For around the same money you could get a Haswell xeon and a 7870.

You won't have to worry about overclocking it then and it's still going to beat the 8320 in just about everything.

It comes with no cooler though. Will the true spirit fit a 1150 board?

From what I can see, I just need the 1150 connector, and Thermalright does make them. As for overclocking, I had tried it briefly in my current CPU, but the current gfx card caused problems. Would want to OC the new machine after some use, so for that reason will probably go for AMD for that reason.

BloodBath wrote: »

Item|Price
Intel Xeon E3-1230v3 Bx, LGA1150, ohne Kühler|€217.74
MSI B85-G41 PC Mate, ATX, Sockel 1150|€66.43
8GB-Kit G.Skill RipJaws PC3-10667U CL9|€71.28
MSI R7870-2GD5T/OC, 2048MB DDR5, PCI-Express|€154.42
Shipping|€18.99
Total|€528.86

Looking at the various benchmarks and forums, and I can't see a clear winner between Intel and AMD. Some saying AMD CPU are better (able to OC, faster), some saying Intel CPU (lower power needed) will last longer before I need an upgrade.

Also, seems the 7870 is not that much faster (7% faster) than stock 660, so not sure, but the 7870 is €30 cheaper than the 660 that I linked to above.

=-=

Thanks for your comments, gives me something to consider. May work out easier to just get a newer cooler, and/or get a Noctua version of the TURE120 (Noctua is meant to have a smoother grip than the Thermalright).

BloodBath · 19-11-2013 12:23pm

The xeon is more powerful than an overclocked 8320 and uses less than half the power and ends up costing the same overall. There's no competition really. Especially when it comes to games that only use 2 cpu cores. Multi thread performance is most likely still in favor of the xeon as well.

The 7870 has good overclocking headroom. It's better than a 660 overall anyway but there's not much in it.

Not an exact comparison but close enough. Here is the 4770k vs the 8350 at their stock speeds. The xeon above would only be slightly slower than the 4770k and obviously the 8350 is a higher clocked 8320.

http://www.anandtech.com/bench/product/836?vs=697

the_syco · 03-12-2013 10:35pm

Closer to "buy time", and I think I may be able to stretch the budget a little bit;

€176 Sapphire HD 7870 GHz Edition OC Version, 2GB GDDR5 PCI-Express, lite Retail (11199-19-20G)
€175 AMD FX-8350 Prozessor, Boxed, Sockel AM3+ (FD8350FRHKBOX)
€115 GIGABYTE GA-990FXA-UD3 (GA-990FXA-UD3)
€143 PATRIOT PC Viper 3 Series 2 x 8 GB (PV316G186C0K)
Total: €609 - a bit over budget, but meh.

/edit; Not totally sure about why the Xeon above is more powerful?

TerrorFirmer · 04-12-2013 12:16am

Xeon better performance in general, 8350 is a good one for encoding and what not.

Save money time - get an 8320, much cheaper, overclocks to the same speed as 8350 effortlessly. That 7870 is expensive, this one is 95% of the time a Sapphire 7870 Dual-X anyway. At a time when Ram is very expensive, 8GB would be OK, unless you're doing heavy work. Forgetting about the ram, the above brings it down to 550.

the_syco · 04-12-2013 12:36am

TerrorFirmer wrote: »

Xeon better performance in general, 8350 is a good one for encoding and what not.

Save money time - get an 8320, much cheaper, overclocks to the same speed as 8350 effortlessly.

Not being able to OC the Xeon at all is something that I don't like. Would like to at least have the option to OC at a later stage.

TerrorFirmer wrote: »

That 7870 is expensive, this one is 95% of the time a Sapphire 7870 Dual-X anyway.

Never heard of the "GENERIQUE" brand before... are they any good?

TerrorFirmer wrote: »

At a time when Ram is very expensive, 8GB would be OK, unless you're doing heavy work. Forgetting about the ram, the above brings it down to 550.

When editing photos, found the jump from 4GB to 8GB improved the process a lot, thus going to get the 16GB now, with the view of maybe another 16GB further down the line. Can't go against me in the gaming side of things, too

hare05 · 04-12-2013 12:51am

the_syco wrote: »

Not being able to OC the Xeon at all is something that I don't like. Would like to at least have the option to OC at a later stage.

Never heard of the "GENERIQUE" brand before... are they any good?

When editing photos, found the jump from 4GB to 8GB improved the process a lot, thus going to get the 16GB now, with the view of maybe another 16GB further down the line. Can't go against me in the gaming side of things, too

Generique is French for generic. You'll get whatever 7870 they want to give you, in other words.

TerrorFirmer · 04-12-2013 1:35am

The price is for an OEM Reference card, but I've actually never seen anyone get a Reference card, they are always other branded cards that are sold at a higher price on the site. I wouldn't worry about overclocking the Xeon, at stock its faster than the 8350 in games, and if the day arrives that you find the CPU lacking (which is years away), you can easily upgrade to a K CPU that does overclock easily.

the_syco · 05-12-2013 3:39am

Gah. A lot of sites (and people that I know) seem to be in favour of the Intel CPU's. It looks like the Xeon may be out of my price range, so what would the main difference be between the quad i5's and quad i7's?

I'm currently using a Q9550, which is a 2.83GHz quad core chip. I refuse to drop speed, and thus will be looking to get at least a 3.3GHz quad core chip. The i5-4570 would be within budget and the i5-4670 (maybe €20 beyond).

Would I be shooting myself in the foot with a quad core Haswell i5? It's three main uses will be BF4, Photoshop CS4, and GTA V when it comes out for the PC. May drop to 8GB of RAM for the short term to get a better CPU, but do you thing the RAM will drop in price again, esp now as DDR4 is meant to be coming.

BeerFear · 05-12-2013 12:09pm

Your spending far too much on the motherboard, get one for around 70 that can overclocl and get yourself a GTX 760 or 7950, far dupreior cards. Also can save yourself money by getting a 8320. 7870s are not great

TerrorFirmer · 05-12-2013 3:58pm

Don't bother with an i7. Get an i5 if you must, but you can still save a fair whack of money by getting an AMD cpu; for games, they're not as fast, but games for the most part are GPU limited and not CPU limited....basically, you won't notice a real world difference in games, and the 8 core option is a reasonable level of future proofing and would also be better for encoding. They can also be overclocked easily, with a good cooler and a decent board (990 for 8320+ I would recommend).

A lot of retailers are out of stock of a lot of cards now, but if you can get a 7950 for a good price, maybe, they've gotten quite reasonable, or a 270x or GTX760. Unfortunately at this time of year, all the best value 7870's and 7950's are actually out of stock for the most part.

the_syco · 05-12-2013 7:15pm

TerrorFirmer wrote: »

Don't bother with an i7. Get an i5 if you must, but you can still save a fair whack of money by getting an AMD cpu; for games, they're not as fast, but games for the most part are GPU limited and not CPU limited....basically, you won't notice a real world difference in games, and the 8 core option is a reasonable level of future proofing and would also be better for encoding. They can also be overclocked easily, with a good cooler and a decent board (990 for 8320+ I would recommend).

I assume you mean that the AMD is not as fast in games, but not that noticeable? Hrm. As for future proofing, I acknowledge that AMD plans to use the AM3 socket for their next line of chips, but as the Haswell line is fairly new, I'd be thinking that there would be more chips further down the line that I could use. Some forums are saying that BF4 is able to use 7 cores of AMD's line, which would make sense as it'd be geared towards the octo for the XBONE, and PS4. This upgrade isn't as easy as my last upgrade (went from AMD to Intel, as Intel was far ahead at the time).

TerrorFirmer wrote: »

A lot of retailers are out of stock of a lot of cards now, but if you can get a 7950 for a good price, maybe, they've gotten quite reasonable, or a 270x or GTX760. Unfortunately at this time of year, all the best value 7870's and 7950's are actually out of stock for the most part.

Only see 7950's for €300

TerrorFirmer · 05-12-2013 7:55pm

Buy this while it lasts maybe. Pretty much as fast as a 7950 as its the Tahiti LE model and comes with free games.

Usually you'd get better value but so many places seem to be out of stock of everything.

Or else this, 150 including postage is decent going.

BeerFear · 05-12-2013 10:14pm

I'd at least for a gtx 760 much more powerful. 7870's are not great all.

TerrorFirmer · 05-12-2013 11:51pm

BeerFear wrote: »

I'd at least for a gtx 760 much more powerful. 7870's are not great all.

Considering it's 150 delivered, is a good performer @1080p and overclocks well, hardly fair to say that the 7870 is 'not great'.

the_syco · 13-12-2013 4:27am

Went with MSI GTX 760 TwinFrozr Gaming 2 GB in the end, mainly due to the cooling. Along with a Gigabyte GA-Z87-HD3, 8GB's of Corsair Vengence Pro Blue DDR3-1600, and an i5-4670k. Now for the wait XD

PC Upgrade for €500

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