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"Irish Rail rejects proposal to open up tunnel under Phoenix Park"

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  • 20-08-2013 10:46pm
    #1
    the_syco
    Registered Users Posts: 37,295 ✭✭✭✭


    http://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/irish-rail-rejects-proposal-to-open-up-tunnel-under-phoenix-park-604163.html
    Irish Rail will not be opening up a 136-year-old tunnel underneath Dublin city.
    The National Transport Authority has recently proposed opening the line under the Phoenix Park for passenger trains.
    Unless I'm missing something, this is already opened, and is used on a daily basis? Also, it gets used for the GAA fans quite a lot.

    I'm just surprised that they haven't used it to it's full extent, as it'd be useful, as people wouldn't have to get the LUAS that does the exact same thing...


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    #2
    LXFlyer
    Registered Users Posts: 17,552 ✭✭✭✭LXFlyer


    This is really shoddy journalism by breakingnews.ie. Read the Irish Times article again.

    How anyone could read it as IE saying "no" to the Phoenix Park tunnel is beyond me.

    What it says is that the Phoenix Park Tunnel is not an alternative to the DART underground.

    It also says that plans have yet to be carried out in terms of designing potential schedules.

    Neither of those is saying "no" - they are just saying that it isn't an alternative to DART Underground (it could be complementary to it) - breakingnews took completely the wrong meaning from what I can see!


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    #3
    the_syco
    Registered Users Posts: 37,295 ✭✭✭✭the_syco


    lxflyer wrote: »
    Read the Irish Times article again.
    Link me? Didn't see it.


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    #4
    petronius
    Registered Users Posts: 849 ✭✭✭petronius


    Park Tunnel NO alternative to DART underground...
    pathetic jounalism to extract that IE reject...

    But the Park Tunnel would compliment it


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    #5
    the_syco
    Registered Users Posts: 37,295 ✭✭✭✭the_syco


    Found it; http://www.irishtimes.com/news/environment/video-phoenix-park-tunnel-no-alternative-to-dart-underground-1.1499167

    =-=

    I can't see why a Dart underground would gain financially, esp once the two LUAS tracks are joined?


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    #6
    gobnaitolunacy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,073 ✭✭✭gobnaitolunacy


    The tunnel is entering the realms of urban legend...stories about a secret way into the Arus, an underground station and top secret FCA military facilities have been circulated.


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    #7
    Dravokivich
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Music Moderators, Politics Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 22,360 CMod ✭✭✭✭Dravokivich


    the_syco wrote: »
    Found it; http://www.irishtimes.com/news/environment/video-phoenix-park-tunnel-no-alternative-to-dart-underground-1.1499167

    =-=

    I can't see why a Dart underground would gain financially, esp once the two LUAS tracks are joined?

    They aren't really going to be joined either, they are just going to go across each other right?


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    #8
    LXFlyer
    Registered Users Posts: 17,552 ✭✭✭✭LXFlyer


    Dravokivich wrote: »
    They aren't really going to be joined either, they are just going to go across each other right?

    Correct.


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    #9
    n97 mini
    Registered Users Posts: 8,295 ✭✭✭n97 mini


    In fairness
    We are only at the stage of initial consultations. There will have to be a cost-benefit analysis. There would have to be discussions with the communities along the line to see if there was a population to sustain it, and we would have to ensure that existing services would not be adversely effected

    sounds like they're delaying until a change of govt in tne hope the next govt will scrap the idea, which they most likely will.


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    #10
    petronius
    Registered Users Posts: 849 ✭✭✭petronius


    One possible major benefit with the Park Tunnel inconjunction with the DART underground
    Is you could have a circular route(clockwise and anti clockwise) going trough the dart underground in the city centre coming out at docklands taking the sligo line or royal canal line through glasnevin and cabra and under the park turning east into heuston and into the DART underground
    It would link all major rail and light rail in dublin
    South Western commuter rail and Heuston
    Luas Red line and Heuston
    North Western commuter route at cabra/phibsboro
    Metro North at Drumcondra
    Northern commuter DART line north of connolly
    red luas in docklands
    Southern DART at Pearse (above and underground station)
    Green Line at stephens green underground station


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    #11
    Dravokivich
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Music Moderators, Politics Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 22,360 CMod ✭✭✭✭Dravokivich


    petronius wrote: »
    One possible major benefit with the Park Tunnel inconjunction with the DART underground
    Is you could have a circular route(clockwise and anti clockwise) going trough the dart underground in the city centre coming out at docklands taking the sligo line or royal canal line through glasnevin and cabra and under the park turning east into heuston and into the DART underground

    The lines aren't laid out for it. Will require a lot of work from what people have discussed of it here before, so it's not the "Quick Win" a lot of people in the media seem to suggest it'll be.

    Also, would the tunnel be able to take a DART?


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    #12
    goingnowhere
    Registered Users Posts: 4,139 ✭✭✭goingnowhere


    Circle can't be done

    1. DART underground connection at Docklands is designed for Northern line
    2. The tunnel surfaces in Inchicore not Heuston and even if it did it would not be possible in the space available unless you wanted to close Heuston station to make room

    All the connection points listed will be served by the DART underground project anyway, as its two lines not 1


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    #13
    Hootanany
    Registered Users Posts: 5,477 ✭✭✭Hootanany


    Why don't they use it as shuttle service between the 2 station?


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    #14
    Slunk
    Registered Users Posts: 2,556 ✭✭✭Slunk


    Hootanany wrote: »
    Why don't they use it as shuttle service between the 2 station?
    You mean like the luas?


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    #15
    Hootanany
    Registered Users Posts: 5,477 ✭✭✭Hootanany


    No like Grand Central, 2 carriages constantly tooing & Frowing?


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    #16
    petronius
    Registered Users Posts: 849 ✭✭✭petronius


    the tunnel surfaces after conyngham road - the line turns west to join at Inchicore granted
    but there is scope with a sharp turn no doubt, but not unfeasible since similar angles exist coming out of connolly or on the maynooth line.
    The Idea would be to join the DART Underground Line at Heuston
    The Central portion of the DART Underground should be used by more than one route.
    You could also plan for the southern line having a spur after grand canal to go underground before pearse and join the DART Underground line so you could also have a Bray to Clondalkin Route

    The idea of 2 DART lines one from Clondalkin to Malahide
    The other from Greystones to Maynooth is fine, but limiting
    But with in this you ca still have Bray to howth pretty much the existing dart
    Or have Dunboyne to Clondalkin via docklands


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    #17
    Dravokivich
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Music Moderators, Politics Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 22,360 CMod ✭✭✭✭Dravokivich


    Hootanany wrote: »
    No like Grand Central, 2 carriages constantly tooing & Frowing?

    Well, the platform at the end of the Phoenix Park tunnel, isn't all that close to Hueston. So there's quite a bit of a walk if you want to use it for connecting services. If it's to go into the station, that's gonna result in using slots in Hueston itself, with a lot of doubling back up and down the track to run up the Pheonix Park tunnel.

    Another thing to consider would be traffic. Just because there's going to be 8 additional slots per hour in Connolly, doesn't mean it's immediately available along that line and should be forced to make way for such a shuttle service, when other means are already available, and more convenient to use than this proposition.


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    #18
    LXFlyer
    Registered Users Posts: 17,552 ✭✭✭✭LXFlyer


    Realistically you are looking at a Kildare, Newbridge, or Hazlehatch to Grand Canal Dock stopping service.


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    #19
    stop
    Registered Users Posts: 886 ✭✭✭stop


    lxflyer wrote: »
    Realistically you are looking at a Kildare, Newbridge, or Hazlehatch to Grand Canal Dock stopping service.

    Most likely. I wonder will the install a second platform (11 :O !) at Heuston or just put in extra points?

    An additional halt in Cabra would be nice to have if there was an easy transfer point to BXD (presumably this would only become really useful if BXD was extended to Finglas).


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    #20
    dowlingm
    Registered Users Posts: 5,309 ✭✭✭dowlingm


    Every public transport project now should be evaluated in passenger-km increase for rail per million spend. The crayons have to go away and making do with existing infrastructure (like PPT), a siding or loop here and a bit of electrification there is the way forward. My concern is what moving trains at peak into and out of the PPT is going to do to pathing complexity in the Heuston Approaches.


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    #21
    LXFlyer
    Registered Users Posts: 17,552 ✭✭✭✭LXFlyer


    dowlingm wrote: »
    Every public transport project now should be evaluated in passenger-km increase for rail per million spend. The crayons have to go away and making do with existing infrastructure (like PPT), a siding or loop here and a bit of electrification there is the way forward. My concern is what moving trains at peak into and out of the PPT is going to do to pathing complexity in the Heuston Approaches.

    How complex would it be? Most of the trains are already there!!

    There are three tracks for much of the gullet - it is hardly that complex!


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    #22
    dowlingm
    Registered Users Posts: 5,309 ✭✭✭dowlingm


    lxflyer wrote: »
    How complex would it be? Most of the trains are already there!!

    There are three tracks for much of the gullet - it is hardly that complex!
    Yeah but it IS CIE we're talking about :D


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    #23
    LXFlyer
    Registered Users Posts: 17,552 ✭✭✭✭LXFlyer


    dowlingm wrote: »
    Yeah but it IS CIE we're talking about :D

    I seriously do not think pathing at Heuston is going to be an issue, nor will it be at Connolly once the resignalling is completed.


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    #24
    coolperson05
    Registered Users Posts: 280 ✭✭coolperson05


    I really hope this happens! Imagine getting on at Kildare and being able to go the whole way to Pearse/Grand Canal...I for one think there could be a lot of new rail users on the Kildare (or even Portlaoise) commuter route. The only worry would be would everyone on intercity trains get off at Kildare to transfer to commuters via PPT, thus making them even busier than they are now!?


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    #25
    LXFlyer
    Registered Users Posts: 17,552 ✭✭✭✭LXFlyer


    coolperson05 wrote: »
    I really hope this happens! Imagine getting on at Kildare and being able to go the whole way to Pearse/Grand Canal...I for one think there could be a lot of new rail users on the Kildare (or even Portlaoise) commuter route. The only worry would be would everyone on intercity trains get off at Kildare to transfer to commuters via PPT, thus making them even busier than they are now!?

    Given most Intercity trains arrive after the commuter rush I can't see there being an issue.


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    #26
    kc56
    Registered Users Posts: 431 ✭✭kc56


    lxflyer wrote: »
    Given most Intercity trains arrive after the commuter rush I can't see there being an issue.

    Half the trains that arrive into Heuston before 9am are Intercity from Galway, Limerick, Westport and Waterford. Commuter rush are a mix of local and Intercity. In fact most commuters from Kildare and Newbridge will preferably use the intercities as they are much quicker.


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    #27
    coolperson05
    Registered Users Posts: 280 ✭✭coolperson05


    Yeah I wonder would there be much traffic from Adamstown or park west for a service to GCD?


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