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Secular Parents Group

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  • 07-01-2013 2:58pm
    #1
    robindch
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 24,404 Mod ✭✭✭✭


    A group of religiously-unaffiliated parents from a Dublin-based primary school are looking to create a secular parents group whose initial objectives -- being debated and thrashed out as we speak -- currently stand as follows:
    Objectives wrote:
    The objective of the group is to provide an educational curriculum which offers an ethical, secular, rational and evidence-based worldview which is delivered in a supportive learning environment. To further this, the group seeks to:
    • Work with teaching staff, school management, parents, children and relevant external groups to develop, review and deliver such a curriculum.
    • Organise social activities for group members to encourage a sense of community.
    • Support the formation and activities of similar groups elsewhere.
    So far, the feedback has been positive from parents within the school and the few people who know about it outside, but I'm wondering how much interest there might be amongst parents and kids from other primary and secondary schools?

    The aim here isn't to campaign on any specific issue, since that's the role of AI, the Humanists and others. Instead, the group is trying to form some kind of counterbalance -- social and academic, inside and outside the classroom -- to the various religious groups.

    Thoughts?


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    #2
    kylith
    Registered Users Posts: 17,736 ✭✭✭✭kylith


    I think that it sounds like a good idea. One of the positives put forward for religion is the sense of community it gives, so working to create that same sense of community amongst secular people is definitely a good thing, especially for parents and children.


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    #3
    Dades
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 25,558 Mod ✭✭✭✭Dades


    I assume this school is an ET, as I can't imagine any RC school taking RE curriculum advice from a group of heathens, no matter how polite and well-intentioned (and well named) they are.

    I like the idea, though. Pity mine will be heading to the local indoctrination centre. :pac:


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    #4
    GCU Flexible Demeanour
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,257 ✭✭✭GCU Flexible Demeanour


    Would what's envisaged be greatly different from the National Parents Council?

    http://www.npc.ie/npc/default.aspx

    (I'm not saying its a good or bad idea - just wondering if the NPC is seen as deficient in some respect as a means of consulting parents.)


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    #5
    robindch
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 24,404 Mod ✭✭✭✭robindch


    Good point. I was in touch some months ago with the NPC about something called the "Minority Religion Group", but I don't believe that the group actually exists yet, as they only sent out a "well, if this existed, what would you like to do with it" request for information at the end of November last year. I'm not fully convinced that it's quite what we want either, as it's billed as "representing parents of children of non-catholic faiths":

    http://nuachteile.gaelscoilchionntsaile.ie/2012/11/npc-minority-religion-group.html

    As above, the group that's envisioned in the ET school is primarily to deliver, as an extra-curricular activity, some kind of non-religious, science-based worldview in parallel with ET's existing "Learn Together" program and, especially, to counter the kind of reaction -- anything from curiosity or benign indifference to open hostility -- that religious people and especially their children tend to direct towards kids who are not members of the dominant religious club.


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    #6
    robindch
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 24,404 Mod ✭✭✭✭robindch


    Dades wrote: »
    I assume this school is an ET, as I can't imagine any RC school taking RE curriculum advice from a group of heathens, no matter how polite and well-intentioned (and well named) they are.
    This isn't about taking curriculum advice from non-members. Instead, it's to provide some kind of curriculum for kids who aren't going to be in the class when everybody else is being indoctrinated, or as an ECA option; and a social outlet of some kind for kids and parents who won't be taking part in "first holy communion", "confirmation" and other ingroup ceremonies which necessarily exclude non-members.
    Dades wrote: »
    I like the idea, though. Pity mine will be heading to the local indoctrination centre. :pac:
    Very sorry to hear it -- the more I hear about what goes on in religion "classes", the more disgusted I get.


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    #7
    GCU Flexible Demeanour
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,257 ✭✭✭GCU Flexible Demeanour


    Just to demonstrate that God sends us signs in mysterious ways, my Firstborn arrived home with a leaflet distributed in her VEC-run Community College on a somewhat related topic. Looks like the VEC are making a bid to take over primary schools from the RCC
    http://www.kildarevec.ie/schools-colleges/community-national-schools

    The Department of Education and Skills has decided to assess parental views as to the future patronage of Primary Schools in 44 towns. In Kildare the Department will shortly assess the views of parents in Celbridge, Leixlip and Kildare Town where it has determined alternative Patronage models should be provided.

    County Kildare Vocational Education Committee has indicated that it is prepared to offer Patronage of Primary schools in these areas via the Community National School model. It currently manages a successful Community National School in Naas, in addition, Kildare VEC is Patron of 9 second level schools and is Joint Trustee of 4 Community Schools in the county.

    County Kildare VEC now seeks your support when the Department of Education and Skills conducts its survey in 2013. We request that you give us your support on the basis that we have a proven track record in delivering first class education in the county for over 80 years from pre-school to primary, second level and life long learning via our Adult and Further Education programmes.
    I've no particular problem with the VEC taking on the management of primary schools. However, I've found that the place of religion in VEC secondary schools is rather hard to fathom. It's taught as an exam subject up to Junior Cert - and make some attempt at teaching students about non-Christian faiths. But, even if dropped at that stage, the VEC still have an obligation to provide a couple of hours of "appropriate" religious instruction to Leaving Cert students. Parents do have the right to give written instructions to exempt their child from these classes. But the default position is such instruction is offered.

    Anyway, I just thought it interesting that some level of change is in the offing. But the multi-faith approach that the VEC are proposing would still see religion integrated in the school curriculum. I'd suspect that Right Thinking Folk like ourselves would prefer a simple exclusion of such matters from the school day, and their replacement with something that might (for the sake of argument) take the bold step of attempting to assist Irish people in achieving some level of comfort with mathematical reasoning


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    #8
    Morag
    Registered Users Posts: 8,423 ✭✭✭Morag


    GCU Flexible Demeanour wrote: »
    Would what's envisaged be greatly different from the National Parents Council?

    http://www.npc.ie/npc/default.aspx

    (I'm not saying its a good or bad idea - just wondering if the NPC is seen as deficient in some respect as a means of consulting parents.)

    Well Given that there are Bishops appointees to the National Parent's Council...


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    #9
    Bannasidhe
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 19,219 Mod ✭✭✭✭Bannasidhe


    Morag wrote: »
    Well Given that there are Bishops appointees to the National Parent's Council...

    Well, in fairness some bishops are parents too.


    :pac:


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    #10
    GCU Flexible Demeanour
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,257 ✭✭✭GCU Flexible Demeanour


    Morag wrote: »
    Well Given that there are Bishops appointees to the National Parent's Council...
    Can you point to whom? I've no idea, but their website suggests that the NPC consists of parents associations who elect the Council members. As robinch says, the structure includes provision for parents of minority religions; it also includes provision for parents of children attending special schools and Irish medium schools.

    I don't see reference to the Bishops having a role - but I haven't a jaysus clue, so by all means point it out to us.


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    #11
    GCU Flexible Demeanour
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,257 ✭✭✭GCU Flexible Demeanour


    Bannasidhe wrote: »
    Well, in fairness some bishops are parents too.
    Some felt it should be a requirement for the job.
    http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=1Timothy+3&version=NKJV

    2 A bishop then must be blameless, the husband of one wife, temperate, sober-minded, of good behavior, hospitable, able to teach; 3 not given to wine, not violent, not greedy for money,/SIZE][/B][URL="http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/#fen-NKJV-29735b"][SIZE=2][COLOR=#651300][B]b[/B][/COLOR][/SIZE][/URL][B][SIZE=2 but gentle, not quarrelsome, not covetous; 4 one who rules his own house well, having his children in submission with all reverence 5 (for if a man does not know how to rule his own house, how will he take care of the church of God?);


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    #12
    recedite
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,993 ✭✭✭✭recedite


    robindch wrote: »
    primarily to deliver, as an extra-curricular activity, some kind of non-religious, science-based worldview in parallel with ET's existing "Learn Together" program and, especially, to counter the kind of reaction -- anything from curiosity or benign indifference to open hostility -- that religious people and especially their children tend to direct towards kids who are not members of the dominant religious club.
    If the Dept of Education could be persuaded to endorse some kind of booklet, it could be used in schools generally where pupils are "sitting out" religious indoctrination in the spare room, just twiddling their thumbs.


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    #13
    Fortyniner
    Registered Users Posts: 79 ✭✭Fortyniner


    The British Humanist Association are active in this area..

    http://humanism.org.uk/2012/12/10/bha-backs-new-fundraising-drive-to-send-young-atheists-handbook-to-schools/

    We don't do very much to help those who have the courage and conviction to stand apart from the rest.


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    #14
    Obliq
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,371 ✭✭✭Obliq


    Oh, good idea. First thing I thought about this group is, well, this is in the ET schools - We who have no choice but send our dearly beloved childer to the local NS can't have any input. We could start our own, sure, but it would be a group of 1 (me) in my local school.

    A booklet that OUR kids could look at/work through when the others are doing RE is a seriously great idea. Who would write it/endorse/fund it??


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    #15
    Fortyniner
    Registered Users Posts: 79 ✭✭Fortyniner


    Here is the Young Atheists Handbook being pushed for insertion in schools in the UK (see post #13 above)

    http://www.amazon.co.uk/Young-Atheists-Handbook-Lessons-without/dp/1849543119

    I'm not sure if this is helpful to you, but maybe this might be a project for AI or the HAI to consider.


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    #16
    lynski
    Registered Users Posts: 1,585 ✭✭✭lynski


    This is a great idea. My son goes to an ET school but even at that there a little things in the books - ie St. Patircks day one page in a workbook that says 'St. Patrick brought God to Ireland' not brought christianity or christian god, but God. i know this is a small thing, but as it goes if the inclusion of defacto christian messages in school books is so pervasive it needs some outside groups to highlight it page by page.
    The community aspect would be useful as there is a challenge each time a life event happens or seasonal events, sometimes you need support to form the answers. I know how lucky we are to have an ET NS near us so we can avoid the 'indoctrination' centre, but it can be so difficult if you have no choice.
    Will keep watching with interest.


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    #17
    Silvio.Dante
    Site Banned Posts: 4,066 ✭✭✭Silvio.Dante


    People with too much time on their hands so decide to wreck the heads of already busy school managements...:rolleyes:


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    #18
    robindch
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 24,404 Mod ✭✭✭✭robindch


    Silvio.Dante wrote: »
    People [...] ...:rolleyes:
    Silvio red-carded for trolling...:)


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    #19
    Silvio.Dante
    Site Banned Posts: 4,066 ✭✭✭Silvio.Dante


    Aww Ref...!


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    #20
    Morag
    Registered Users Posts: 8,423 ✭✭✭Morag


    That is the problem when the majority of schools in the country are patroned by christian chruches, the ethos permeates the school, the curriculum and the books which are published for that curriculum.


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    #21
    robindch
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 24,404 Mod ✭✭✭✭robindch


    Well, folks, here it is -- our very own Earth Day celebration!

    It's on this Sunday afternoon, starting out in the DSP on Glenageary Lodge. The invitation is open to all, so if anybody's interested in dropping along, please PM me!

    The group's facebook page is here, for anybody interested:

    http://www.facebook.com/groups/secularparentsgroup/

    249666.jpg


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    #22
    Obliq
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,371 ✭✭✭Obliq


    That looks cool! I'll send it on to the bro - would be great fun for my niece.....the facebook page is a "closed group" though. Just thought I'd mention that because if it was an open one, with that sort of poster as your latest post + appropriate status, it makes it much easier to share around!


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    #23
    robindch
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 24,404 Mod ✭✭✭✭robindch


    Obliq wrote: »
    the facebook page is a "closed group" though.
    Yes, if your bro wants to join, just ask to be admitted and I'll add him. The poster's been put up in the MET as well as on the main ET website:

    http://www.educatetogether.ie/media/national-news/earth-day-celebration

    all welcome!

    :)


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    #24
    Obliq
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,371 ✭✭✭Obliq


    robindch wrote: »
    The poster's been put up in the MET as well as on the main ET website:

    http://www.educatetogether.ie/media/national-news/earth-day-celebration

    :)

    Thanks! That link is spot on. He's not on fb, so this is way better :)


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    #25
    Sulla Felix
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,442 ✭✭✭Sulla Felix


    robindch wrote: »
    This isn't about taking curriculum advice from non-members. Instead, it's to provide some kind of curriculum for kids who aren't going to be in the class when everybody else is being indoctrinated, or as an ECA option
    You could read them the Bible. Damn sure the other kids won't be, so it certainly would be alternative to the status quo.
    Seriously though. I went to a proto-ET school and that's what we did. Studied all the religions rather than just one.


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    #26
    robindch
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 24,404 Mod ✭✭✭✭robindch


    The second Earth Day Celebration is taking place this afternoon at 2:30 in the DSP Educate Together school. For anybody in the Dun Laoghaire area with kids and wondering what to do -- well, wonder no longer!

    There will be talks by Ferdia Marnell of the Irish National Parks and Wildlife Service, wildlife photographer Andrew Kelly, a healthy cooking demo (and eat-o!), a nature + science hunt and a certain friendly A+A moderator doing some science experiments :)

    The DSP is here - https://www.google.com/maps/place/Dalkey+School+Project+National+School/@53.2737895,-6.133191,17z/data=!4m7!1m4!3m3!1s0x486707d4807391b3:0xd58ea54683f7ae17!2sGlenageary+Lodge!3b1!3m1!1s0x0:0x81269445e332c02c


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