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Laois Hurling

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  • 26-09-2012 2:22pm
    #1
    lala88
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,243 ✭✭✭


    Seems that they may be "Invited" to participate in the Christy Ring Cup. The fact there is no one gets relegated to the Christy Ring Cup has gone beyond a joke at this stage. No disrespect but Laois are not up to playing at the top level the last 2 years a proof of that! They would be much better off playing in the Christy Ring instead of taking the beatings they have the last 2 years!


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    #2
    cormac halpin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 595 ✭✭✭cormac halpin


    lala88 wrote: »
    Seems that they may be "Invited" to participate in the Christy Ring Cup. The fact there is no one gets relegated to the Christy Ring Cup has gone beyond a joke at this stage. No disrespect but Laois are not up to playing at the top level the last 2 years a proof of that! They would be much better off playing in the Christy Ring instead of taking the beatings they have the last 2 years!
    No they wouldn't.


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    #3
    Hesh's Umpire
    Registered Users Posts: 728 ✭✭✭Hesh's Umpire


    Why should Laois be "relegated"?
    They did beat Carlow in the championship.


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    #4
    cormac halpin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 595 ✭✭✭cormac halpin


    admins can we get an infraction/banning for this lala loola?


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    #5
    lala88
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,243 ✭✭✭lala88


    Hesh's Umpire wrote: »
    Why should Laois be "relegated"?
    They did beat Carlow in the championship.

    In the last 2 years they have lost 10-20 to 1-13 to Cork and 6-21 to 1-11 to Limerick. How many other teams have shipped 10 goals in a championship game? Having taken beating like that can you really say they should be playing at that level? Carlow were well beat aswell but no where near the level of beatings Laois have taken.


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    #6
    lala88
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,243 ✭✭✭lala88


    cormac halpin wrote: »
    No they wouldn't.

    So there better off taken 30/40 point beatings year in year out?


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    #7
    cormac halpin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 595 ✭✭✭cormac halpin


    lala88 wrote: »
    So there better off taken 30/40 point beatings year in year out?
    Who said that? You don't know what you are talking about.


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    #8
    lala88
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,243 ✭✭✭lala88


    cormac halpin wrote: »
    Who said that? You don't know what you are talking about.

    You said they wouldnt be better off dropping down so by that you think they should stay and get hammered every year as far as i can see


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    #9
    cormac halpin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 595 ✭✭✭cormac halpin


    lala88 wrote: »
    You said they wouldnt be better off dropping down so by that you think they should stay and get hammered every year as far as i can see
    Give me a link to that?


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    #10
    lala88
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,243 ✭✭✭lala88


    cormac halpin wrote: »
    Give me a link to that?

    The second comment


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    #11
    DDC1990
    Registered Users Posts: 10,363 ✭✭✭✭DDC1990


    cormac halpin wrote: »
    admins can we get an infraction/banning for this lala loola?
    Yeah, because everyone who has an opinion differing from yours should be banned?
    :rolleyes:

    What a terrible attitude. lala88 has contributed well to this thread, he's reported on Croke Park' s statement given his opinion, and backed it up with the facts (the 30/40 point beatings).

    All you have said is that he's wrong, should be banned and that he doesn't know what he's talking about.

    You don't have to agree with his post but don't be so ignorant.


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    #12
    jordainius
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,654 ✭✭✭jordainius


    From what I understand, the problem with Laois is that they have difficulty getting a panel of 30 players to commit properly (in terms of numbers turning up at training and team meetings) and that many of the better hurlers in the county are unwilling to even join the panel in the first place.

    There's potential in Laois, in 2009 they should have knocked Limerick out, they were the better team on the day, Limerick may not have been great that year but they still reached the All-Ireland semi final. Laois has problems in terms of running the senior team, would those problems be solved by demoting them to Christy Ring hurling? I doubt it. If the 15 best hurlers in Laois took to the field with proper preparation they would be more than good enough for Liam McCarthy cup hurling. Not in terms of winning things but they could get to a level similar to Wexford/Offaly in the medium term future.

    Something needs to be done within the county, dropping down to Christy Ring may not help, they might have even more difficulty getting their better players to commit.


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    #13
    iDave
    Registered Users Posts: 3,750 ✭✭✭iDave


    The question is do teams improve by playing unglamourous ties against similar opposition and winning or by playing against higher standard teams and regularly losing?


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    #14
    AGC
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,648 ✭✭✭AGC


    cormac halpin wrote: »
    admins can we get an infraction/banning for this lala loola?

    Why, it's a relevant story.

    http://www.rte.ie/sport/gaa/football/2012/0926/339156-laois-asked-to-play-in-christy-ring-cup/

    Personally I think they would be better off, certainly if they have no committment. Why would players hang around for those beatings?


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    #15
    laoisman11
    Registered Users Posts: 964 ✭✭✭laoisman11


    DDC1990 wrote: »
    Yeah, because everyone who has an opinion differing from yours should be banned?
    :rolleyes:

    What a terrible attitude. lala88 has contributed well to this thread, he's reported on Croke Park' s statement given his opinion, and backed it up with the facts (the 30/40 point beatings).

    All you have said is that he's wrong, should be banned and that he doesn't know what he's talking about.

    You don't have to agree with his post but don't be so ignorant.

    To be fair to Cormac, I think he is questioning the "facts" of the OP.

    Laois do not suffer "30/40 point beatings year in year out". If you want to be pedantic, you could say that Laois suffered a beating between 30 and 40 points in a Championship match on one occasion in Championship history. It's a bit less dramatic all the same, even if it's true.

    There are problems in Laois hurling, there is no denying that. I find the efforts of Croke Park to relegate us a bit comical though......they tried to officially relegate us one year except we had the nerve to go and beat Antrim. The relegation final was between Antrim and Wexford but we couldn't be relegating one of them, could we?


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    #16
    WumBuster
    Closed Accounts Posts: 827 ✭✭✭WumBuster


    I agree with OP its a nonsense having teams like Laois, Carlow, Westmeath competing in the same championship as the Kilkennys and Corks etc. They should just be put into their own championship and left stay there, Christy Ring or whatever where they can be competitive each year and at least a chance of winning something rather than have to endure hidings year in year out which is hardly motivating for the players or supporters and hurling in the county in general. Lets face it, these counties are never going to reach the required standard for Liam McCarthy. It reminds me of Waterford footballers, just treated like dirt on everyones shoe and forgotten about whilst the Dublins, Kilkennys and Kerrys of this world take all the glory and profile and who you all you ever hear about every Sunday. These teams should have their own championship(the same for weaker counties in football) with these championships should be given similiar media exposure as the main championships, is my solution.


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    #17
    actua11
    Registered Users Posts: 146 ✭✭actua11


    Playing weaker teams is not necisserily a disadvantage. The problom is when a ceiling is placed which pervents teams from advancing from their current level. The example that spings to mind is Wicklow football. A couple of good runs against the 'weaker' counties in the Tommy Murphy cup gave the side momentum for the championship, beating Down and memorabily Kildare in croker.

    The problem in hurling is that if a kerry (or possibly Laois/westmeath) get a run together in the Christy Ring cup, the momentum is wasted as tehy either remain at that level or are promoted to effectively be lambs to the slaughter making such a leap. Perhaps somebody who knows more about schedueling could correct me, but could the Ring cup be played in early Summer in a quick fire format just before the the championship starts, with the winner/top 2-4 sides advancing to the first round of the provincial/qualifiers. This would allow tier 2 teams have experience playing chanpionships sides and developing while the championship side like Laois would get a couple of momentum building wins before 'qualifing' for the championship.


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    #18
    WumBuster
    Closed Accounts Posts: 827 ✭✭✭WumBuster


    actua11 wrote: »
    Playing weaker teams is not necisserily a disadvantage. The problom is when a ceiling is placed which pervents teams from advancing from their current level. The example that spings to mind is Wicklow football. A couple of good runs against the 'weaker' counties in the Tommy Murphy cup gave the side momentum for the championship, beating Down and memorabily Kildare in croker.

    The problem in hurling is that if a kerry (or possibly Laois/westmeath) get a run together in the Christy Ring cup, the momentum is wasted as tehy either remain at that level or are promoted to effectively be lambs to the slaughter making such a leap. Perhaps somebody who knows more about schedueling could correct me, but could the Ring cup be played in early Summer in a quick fire format just before the the championship starts, with the winner/top 2-4 sides advancing to the first round of the provincial/qualifiers. This would allow tier 2 teams have experience playing chanpionships sides and developing while the championship side like Laois would get a couple of momentum building wins before 'qualifing' for the championship.

    I dont think that would do any good, their prize for winning the C Ring cup is a championship mauling by Kilkenny? There shouldnt be any promotion for any of these counties unless one of them is perhaps showing that they are way too strong for the rest of the competition and that there is a reasonable case for them to make the step up, in which case they could apply to be promoted to the Liam McCarthy. Such things as league form and performance in challenge matches against tier one sides should be looked at by a review committee in assessing that decision.


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    #19
    Stevecw
    Registered Users Posts: 5,133 ✭✭✭Stevecw


    Laois, Carlow, Westmeath and Antrim should have a prelim championship. A group of 4, we all play each other once in May/June. Winner gets to play in Leinster proper on a roll after winning 3 games.
    Other 3 go back to Christy Ring...but winners of CR enter proper championship in qualifiers 2nd round.


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    #20
    lala88
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,243 ✭✭✭lala88


    WumBuster wrote: »
    I dont think that would do any good, their prize for winning the C Ring cup is a championship mauling by Kilkenny? There shouldnt be any promotion for any of these counties unless one of them is perhaps showing that they are way too strong for the rest of the competition and that there is a reasonable case for them to make the step up, in which case they could apply to be promoted to the Liam McCarthy. Such things as league form and performance in challenge matches against tier one sides should be looked at by a review committee in assessing that decision.

    Back when there was an All Ireland B championship the winners of that went in to the senior championship so why cant they do that now?


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    #21
    WumBuster
    Closed Accounts Posts: 827 ✭✭✭WumBuster


    lala88 wrote: »
    Back when there was an All Ireland B championship the winners of that went in to the senior championship so why cant they do that now?

    maybe so but if they win AI Ireland B but are still not good enough to play in the A Championship whats the point promoting them? Only promote them if they are good enough i.e they are hammering other teams in the B championsip, are playing and competing with the tier one teams in the national league and/or have been having recent successes at underage. otherwise its just going to be another turkey shoot for the Kilkennys and Corks unfortunately


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    #22
    lala88
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,243 ✭✭✭lala88


    WumBuster wrote: »
    maybe so but if they win AI Ireland B but are still not good enough to play in the A Championship whats the point promoting them? Only promote them if they are good enough i.e they are hammering other teams in the B championsip, are playing and competing with the tier one teams in the national league and/or have been having recent successes at underage. otherwise its just going to be another turkey shoot for the Kilkennys and Corks unfortunately

    How else will they know if there good enough unless they play the teams in the A championship? League and Championship are not the same so you cant judge then on league form really. Dublin beat Kilkenny in the league final last year and then got hammered by them in the championship


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    #23
    WumBuster
    Closed Accounts Posts: 827 ✭✭✭WumBuster


    lala88 wrote: »
    How else will they know if there good enough unless they play the teams in the A championship? League and Championship are not the same so you cant judge then on league form really. Dublin beat Kilkenny in the league final last year and then got hammered by them in the championship

    Dublin is different, they will always be a tier one team with their population, resources and that they have been winning underage regularly. I wouldnt take one hammering by Kilkenny as a yardstick to where they are at and the fact that they beat them recently as evidence that they can compete at this level. I would say that if a team, such as laois, should be judged on whether they can regularly compete and beat tier one teams in the national league, which at the moment they clearly cant. Its not impossible to make that kind of step up, Offaly did something similiar in the 80's but it needs to start from the bottom up. But i dont know if there is the will there to do that in the near future within the county.


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    #24
    lala88
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,243 ✭✭✭lala88


    WumBuster wrote: »
    Dublin is different, they will always be a tier one team with their population, resources and that they have been winning underage regularly. I wouldnt take one hammering by Kilkenny as a yardstick to where they are at and the fact that they beat them recently as evidence that they can compete at this level. I would say that if a team, such as laois, should be judged on whether they can regularly compete and beat tier one teams in the national league, which at the moment they clearly cant. Its not impossible to make that kind of step up, Offaly did something similiar in the 80's but it needs to start from the bottom up. But i dont know if there is the will there to do that in the near future within the county.

    Dublin have been hammered by Kilkenny the last 2/3 times they have played. Most of the top team will try alot of younger players in the league who might not play in the championship, again like last years league final Kilkenny were missing the likes of Tommy Walsh and others and when they were back Dublin were no where near them. Loais have been going well at underage level they beat a so called great Dublin Under 21 team this year and had a good minor team this year


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    #25
    blue note
    Registered Users Posts: 4,518 ✭✭✭blue note


    WumBuster wrote: »
    actua11 wrote: »
    Playing weaker teams is not necisserily a disadvantage. The problom is when a ceiling is placed which pervents teams from advancing from their current level. The example that spings to mind is Wicklow football. A couple of good runs against the 'weaker' counties in the Tommy Murphy cup gave the side momentum for the championship, beating Down and memorabily Kildare in croker.

    The problem in hurling is that if a kerry (or possibly Laois/westmeath) get a run together in the Christy Ring cup, the momentum is wasted as tehy either remain at that level or are promoted to effectively be lambs to the slaughter making such a leap. Perhaps somebody who knows more about schedueling could correct me, but could the Ring cup be played in early Summer in a quick fire format just before the the championship starts, with the winner/top 2-4 sides advancing to the first round of the provincial/qualifiers. This would allow tier 2 teams have experience playing chanpionships sides and developing while the championship side like Laois would get a couple of momentum building wins before 'qualifing' for the championship.

    I dont think that would do any good, their prize for winning the C Ring cup is a championship mauling by Kilkenny? There shouldnt be any promotion for any of these counties unless one of them is perhaps showing that they are way too strong for the rest of the competition and that there is a reasonable case for them to make the step up, in which case they could apply to be promoted to the Liam McCarthy. Such things as league form and performance in challenge matches against tier one sides should be looked at by a review committee in assessing that decision.

    I think a system needs to be decided upon, and the last thing it needs is a committee. A bunch of wild codgers reading martin brehony deciding who is worthy of liam McCarthy hurling. If teams play games, let the the games (competitive) decide who plays in what competition.


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    #26
    WumBuster
    Closed Accounts Posts: 827 ✭✭✭WumBuster


    blue note wrote: »
    I think a system needs to be decided upon, and the last thing it needs is a committee. A bunch of wild codgers reading martin brehony deciding who is worthy of liam McCarthy hurling. If teams play games, let the the games (competitive) decide who plays in what competition.

    I know. You'd need a committee of experienced hurling people with common sense(asking a lot of the GAA lol), people like maybe Donal O Grady or Brian Cody even, to make that kind of decision. But I think it would be the best way forward and would make the championship fairer on everyone. if you are good enough, you'll play with the best. end of

    Who knows, if they know they had to reach a certain level to play in LMcC it may motivate those teams more to up their game


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    #27
    jimbo79
    Closed Accounts Posts: 88 ✭✭jimbo79


    laois carlow westmeath antrim and probably wexford and offaly are of a similar level at the minute, what i would be inclined to do rather than demoting them back to a competition that they are to strong for is let them play off for two places in the lhc

    antrim went back to the christy ring and hammered everyone in it then the following year it was back up to senior where they were out of their depth


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    #28
    WumBuster
    Closed Accounts Posts: 827 ✭✭✭WumBuster


    lala88 wrote: »
    Dublin have been hammered by Kilkenny the last 2/3 times they have played. Most of the top team will try alot of younger players in the league who might not play in the championship, again like last years league final Kilkenny were missing the likes of Tommy Walsh and others and when they were back Dublin were no where near them. Loais have been going well at underage level they beat a so called great Dublin Under 21 team this year and had a good minor team this year


    Look, Kilkenny at present are an exceptional team. Dublin arent the only team they have been dishing out hidings to. Tipperary? Waterford? Limerick? Im not saying Laois would have to be beating the present KK team regularly but they would have to be able to beat at least maybe Limerick, Offaly or Wexford and not be taking 10 goal hammerings from other teams to be worthy of a place in Liam Mc Carthy and take it from there


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    #29
    cormac halpin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 595 ✭✭✭cormac halpin


    Hilarious the amount of people here commenting on Laois hurling and this whole question who haven't got a clue what they're talking about. Do some research lads, this is worse than AFR for know nothings.


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    #30
    aidan24326
    Registered Users Posts: 5,925 ✭✭✭aidan24326


    cormac halpin wrote: »
    Hilarious the amount of people here commenting on Laois hurling and this whole question who haven't got a clue what they're talking about. Do some research lads, this is worse than AFR for know nothings.


    Well seen as your obviously the expert maybe you can enlighten us all with your wisdom.


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    #31
    cormac halpin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 595 ✭✭✭cormac halpin


    aidan24326 wrote: »
    Well seen as your obviously the expert maybe you can enlighten us all with your wisdom.
    Its ok, its in the papers today, feel free to educate yourselves. Lot of people here feeling foolish no doubt.


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