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Help improve format of MTC/Boards forecast thread

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  • 21-09-2012 6:27pm
    #1
    M.T. Cranium
    Registered Users Posts: 14,376 ✭✭✭✭


    This thread is aimed at regular or occasional users of the forecast thread. Please note, while it may be a good topic, the question of forecast accuracy is not the main concern, but rather, format.

    Here's an overview, but I need your input.

    The forecast section has expanded to provide forecasts for Britain and North America. There are sometimes some rather complex, detailed situations that receive perhaps longer text forecasts or discussions than some might appreciate. But I have little guidance from users on such matters, I have tended to keep an eye on user counts, thanks and other feedback, but we have never done this sort of formal discussion before.

    Meanwhile, as some but not all users are probably aware, the same forecast appears regularly on two other sites, one known as "meteotimes.net" which is version 2.0 of the now-defunct Irish Weather Online forum (not to be confused with a later version of same under the guidance of "Villain" but note this is unconnected to the MTC forecast) ... and a facebook user group that is probably in process of transition from the old name of IWO to this newer name of meteotimes.

    So, given all that, questions have been raised about text volume, apps for mobile users, etc, and unfortunately, being somewhat of a first-generation internet guy myself and further hampered by being offshore (thus not as familiar with Irish mobile phone as I could be although frankly also not very au courant with the local variety either) ... well, the bottom line is, I need guidance on these matters.

    So basically what I hope you as users might post would be advice on how to structure the forecast message, if it's okay for you as done now, or if changes are needed. And I am being timed out, so must post.


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    #2
    Tom Cruises Left Nut
    Registered Users Posts: 9,011 ✭✭✭Tom Cruises Left Nut


    I would say the format at the moment is perfect ! It is well laid out and after you read one forecast you know where in the next one to look for the information you need.

    Never seen any issues with it on mobile and I would see it on here and facebook every day, on a laptop and on mobile.


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    #3
    Sponge Bob
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 25,234 ✭✭✭✭Sponge Bob


    No difference MT. The mobile versions just leave out the graphics or put in a link so you can download the graphic.

    EG www m and touch

    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=80884787&postcount=2
    http://m.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=80884787&postcount=2
    http://touch.boards.ie/thread/2056761194?page=1#post_80884787


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    #4
    M.T. Cranium
    Registered Users Posts: 14,376 ✭✭✭✭M.T. Cranium


    So having more text is not costing users in terms of volume? Or the difference is not significant? One user commented on the forecast thread that he/she wanted apps to separate content. Can I do this easily without changing things for other users? Bear in mind I have only the faintest idea how apps work (believe it or not I do not possess an i-phone or at this point in time even a basic cell phone, I get my communications by e-mail or smoke signals).


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    #5
    StormGazer.11
    Registered Users Posts: 85 ✭✭StormGazer.11


    The coding and general set up for an app could be quite time consuming if you are not up to speed that kind of tech MT, having said that I'm only getting into it myself so to be honest some advice from an app developer would be considerably more advantageous or if you want to go down that route a developer who is willing to contribute some time would be even better :p


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    #6
    Darwin
    Registered Users Posts: 2,665 ✭✭✭Darwin


    M.T. I think the current format is fine, there is a mobile version of boards.ie (touch.boards.ie) which I use to read your forecast every morning on my phone. However, I think an app that archived all the existing forecasts in a database, that could be searched by date or perhaps by notable weather events (e.g. searchable by wind speed/rainfall amounts/low temps) would be very interesting. This would be a time consuming process for a developer to go through all the forecasts by hand to extract the relevant data (and would obviously need ongoing updates/maintenance). Just my 2c...


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    #7
    delw
    Registered Users Posts: 2,655 ✭✭✭delw


    I also think the format is fine M.T,i read your forecast on my laptop but an android app would be cool :D


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    #8
    Sponge Bob
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 25,234 ✭✭✭✭Sponge Bob


    Apps are arse, it is a text based forecast and web pages or mobile optimised variants thereof are fine. Same as the Met Eireann m.met pages ..there is no need for an app.

    The only length added was when you yourself decided to add the UK recently. Your choice.


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    #9
    pistolpetes11
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 7,146 Mod ✭✭✭✭pistolpetes11


    Sponge Bob wrote: »
    Apps are arse, it is a text based forecast and web pages or mobile optimised variants thereof are fine. Same as the Met Eireann m.met pages ..there is no need for an app.

    The only length added was when you yourself decided to add the UK recently. Your choice.

    I do believe it was a request from a poster


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    #10
    The Clown Man
    Registered Users Posts: 1,305 ✭✭✭The Clown Man


    Hang on,

    MT, as a very regular reader of your forecasts (the only halfway reliable forecasts I can find) I have to chime in here. I don't know exactly what the intent is behind the exploration into apps, but, if you are thinking along the lines of creating an app then you must be thinking of some form of monetisation, or so I will assume. Yes, I'm the dikc who is thinking how this might make financial sense; Hi!

    As a self proclaimed entrepreneur I have to break all of this down to what is and what could be. Thing is, I'd happily pay €5 p/y or whatever to subscribe to your forecasts on my phone. I'm sure I'm not alone here. And as admirable as it is to be posting all of this advice gratis, I think that you should at least be offering a means for donation and support for your effort. Everyone wants free these days but people are still very happy to reward genuine and beneficial effort. If you offered an app tomorrow i suspect you would have a lot of people willing to subcribe.

    I'm not proposing that you look to cash in, simply that you take something in return. Now, creating an app with forecasts for all locales in say GB and Ireland would take some effort. In fact, it would take a lot of effort. But with a clever development approach you could eventually input your forecast to cover the entire EU in minutes and give a brief outline of the expected conditions over the next 5 days regardless of location.

    Thing about weather is that few people can get it right. If you can get it right more often than most then you have your retirement fund right there. I know it's brutally blunt but it's true. You have a captive audience and a track record which is seriously valuable.

    Although I'm not the person to help you cause it's way outside my comfort zone, I'm sure that there are people out there willing to back/create an app based on your track record alone. Best case scenario would be that someone here on this forum has the gumption to try to develop a suitable app and monetise your expertise. Worst case scenario is that you end up exactly where you are right now.

    Either way, I think you should look into this and see will anyone jump on board, here or in the UK, and see what all this effort could do for you.

    You really shouldn't be doing all this without any hope of reward. That said, your appetite for stress has to be carefully assessed. If you like things the way they are then stick to it. If you think you could do more then go get it.

    Anyway, I'm just putting it out there and I'm certainly not looking to gain personally, but I feel you should at least think about how all your effort could potentailly improve your own personal situation.

    Ask and ye shall recieve, seek and ye shall find and all that carry on...


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    #11
    M.T. Cranium
    Registered Users Posts: 14,376 ✭✭✭✭M.T. Cranium


    A cash flow concept would be great, but I got into this on a small scale knowing that Boards.ie are generally opposed to commercial ventures, and I would honour that principle while being hosted here. As mentioned, there is a second home for my forecasts and a commercial application there might develop at some time, or I might push it along myself. Your optimism about how many might be willing to pay frankly exceeds mine, I have a strong feeling that the alternative free product is always going to be close enough in quality to any possible competitor that a paid service is likely to be a rather meagre return, to the point where I have never felt much urge to bother, having another source of cash flow in place and in any case already being more or less retired (I do this mainly to strengthen my research efforts, or that was the reason until I found such a friendly home here in Ireland).

    The other problem I would foresee in a commercial model is that while 10% might go for it, the other 90% would wander off and that would weaken the future potential for something a little less directly user-pay (this may sound like I know what I'm talking about, but make no mistake, I probably don't).


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    #12
    The Nutty M
    Registered Users Posts: 904 ✭✭✭The Nutty M


    Leave good well alone:D


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    #13
    TURRICAN
    Closed Accounts Posts: 717 ✭✭✭TURRICAN


    I don't think charging for forecasts would be a good idea for Mtc as the government would come along and put a tax on it and then he'd have nothing.

    They can't tax donations though!

    Other than that the forecast section is fine,Iove the alerts sections with all the underlined stuff. :)


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    #14
    KAGY
    Registered Users Posts: 1,090 ✭✭✭KAGY


    M.T. Cranium wrote: »
    A cash flow concept would be great, but I got into this on a small scale knowing that Boards.ie are generally opposed to commercial ventures, and I would honour that principle while being hosted here. As mentioned, there is a second home for my forecasts and a commercial application there might develop at some time, or I might push it along myself. Your optimism about how many might be willing to pay frankly exceeds mine, I have a strong feeling that the alternative free product is always going to be close enough in quality to any possible competitor that a paid service is likely to be a rather meagre return, to the point where I have never felt much urge to bother, having another source of cash flow in place and in any case already being more or less retired (I do this mainly to strengthen my research efforts, or that was the reason until I found such a friendly home here in Ireland).

    The other problem I would foresee in a commercial model is that while 10% might go for it, the other 90% would wander off and that would weaken the future potential for something a little less directly user-pay (this may sound like I know what I'm talking about, but make no mistake, I probably don't).
    I would agree that an app would be more hassle than its worth, people would start expecting more - including guarrenteed forecasts. Just look at the feedback for most apps. i can imagine a typical response.
    i buked me wedin coz u sed 2 xpect a gud march. It rained. Ur app sucks, 0 stars if i cud
    Here on boards we appreciate your work and effort, and if we read some of the other threads we might even understand the probitalistic nature of all forecasts.
    That being said, If you want to increase your audience you could start a mailing list / newsletter that people could sign up to. I'm happy enough most days with the follow thread daily mail here even if there's a day's lag, as im more interested in the far end your forecast .
    I would like some graphics or links to charts, but realise you already put more thanenough time in already.
    You could split the irish and foreign forecasts into different threads


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    #15
    Su Campu
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,279 ✭✭✭Su Campu


    For me there's not a thing wrong with the current forecasts and there's no need to change. If it ain't broke.....

    One thing that's only struck me recently is your knowledge of Irish geography! You list off towns, counties and provinces as if you've lived here all your life, not eight timezones away! I'd be fairly sure that when you're writing the forecasts you can refer to these places without having to look up a map. Am I right??!!


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    #16
    Sponge Bob
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 25,234 ✭✭✭✭Sponge Bob


    I would commend to MT and Boards that they jointly explore the opportunities that an app presents (speaking as one who horsed the Boards related app bloat off his Sammy :D ) but there is no technical need to produce an app for absolutely everything...a spot of HTML5 will generally suffice.


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    #17
    Jpmarn
    Registered Users Posts: 1,477 ✭✭✭Jpmarn


    I like your format. If you have graphics it would be welcomed. Text only is fine if you don't need to post graphics


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    #18
    M.T. Cranium
    Registered Users Posts: 14,376 ✭✭✭✭M.T. Cranium


    Su Campu wrote: »
    For me there's not a thing wrong with the current forecasts and there's no need to change. If it ain't broke.....

    One thing that's only struck me recently is your knowledge of Irish geography! You list off towns, counties and provinces as if you've lived here all your life, not eight timezones away! I'd be fairly sure that when you're writing the forecasts you can refer to these places without having to look up a map. Am I right??!!

    I have learned a lot about Irish geography in these past four years, would say my knowledge in 2009 was just a bit better than your basic one-time tourist and not much better. Since then I have probably improved to the extent that I could name all the counties on a blank map and locate towns although that is still a work in progress, sometimes I have to look up places mentioned by boards members in my atlas (or google earth if it's open).

    Okay then, the basic idea I am getting from the thread feedback is that the volume of text now in the daily forecast is not causing trouble as I feared it might be doing, and that we can proceed (I am not contemplating any further complexity, time constraints alone would rule that out). However, we'll see if there are any other ideas to consider, thanks for all the feedback so far.


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    #19
    Joe Public
    Registered Users Posts: 1,778 ✭✭✭Joe Public


    I'm happy with the current format, you are getting the information across in an understandable and clear fashion so what more could one ask for?

    Seeing as you are looking for comments here's one, otherwise I wouldn't say anything for fear of an onslaught.
    On the geography front, I don't think anyone in Ireland refers to Tipperary as Tipps ( correct me if I'm wrong ). Tipperary is usually abreviated to Tipp. There is a North and South Tipp ok but Tipp covers both.


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    #20
    M.T. Cranium
    Registered Users Posts: 14,376 ✭✭✭✭M.T. Cranium


    Thanks, I have no idea where I picked that up (Tipps), one area that I should get some information is on Dublin regions, I get the idea of the numbers (e.g. Dublin 16) being like boroughs but when people mention them in weather reports, I have no real idea what part of Dublin the numbers are. I can guess that low numbers are closer to the city centre than high numbers. Will look into this but if somebody has a link that would save me some time ... thanks in advance.

    I shall keep going until I sense that it does more harm than good, or when we manage to fix the weather, whichever happens first.


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    #21
    Sponge Bob
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 25,234 ✭✭✭✭Sponge Bob


    In weather terms Dublin south is in the Wicklow mountain rainshield and Dublin middle and north less so. Dublin middle and north are essentially open to westerlies and easterlies and all of Dublin to northerlies.

    Both weather stations ( Phoenix Park a legacy unit at the old MÉ HQ) and Dublin Airport are in the northern section but PP would get more urban heat effect and is less open to the east than the Airport (from the Irish Sea ) especially in winter. The airport exibits cold hollow effects in winter.

    To keep it simple just mention Dublin North or Dublin South as appropriate. Never mind the numbers as much of Dublin is beyond numbered areas.


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    #22
    Joe Public
    Registered Users Posts: 1,778 ✭✭✭Joe Public


    Below is a link for the Dublin city postal codes, odds to north of river Liffey and evens to the south.
    County Dublin towns and areas outside the reach of the postal codes are just referred to as part of County Dublin.

    http://www.dublintourist.com/maps/dublin_postal_codes.shtml


    Here's a good map of Dublin County

    http://www.bedandbreakfastireland.net/dublin_countymap.htm


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    #23
    PaddyTheNth
    Registered Users Posts: 605 ✭✭✭PaddyTheNth


    Agree with the posters saying the native forum mobile presentation is absolutely fine (on smartphones anyway).

    IMO an app is only worthwhile building if there is a case for user interaction with the function/service being provided.

    At the moment the situation is consumption only (apart from thanking the post). Someone did mention the possibility of structuring the forecast data to be able to search on it, but my take on this would be that people doing this sort of data interrogation are interested in actuals rather than forecasts. The only benefit I'd see of an app is that you could push the forecast to the phone - however I'm pretty sure you could achieve the same thing using RSS in combination with the existing multitude of RSS Reader apps which wouldn't require you to build, maintain and update a standalone app.

    That's my 2c, but seriously, don't build an app!


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    #24
    just do it
    Registered Users Posts: 5,422 ✭✭✭just do it


    If it's not broken, why fix it?

    It us perfect the way it is and extra text places no real demand. I've a poor BB connection and I've no issue with it. Other threads and sites with graphics and pictures do sometimes fail to download properly.

    So for me, you're doing an excellent job, touch version of boards means there is no need for an app, leave it as it is.


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    #25
    Pangea
    Registered Users Posts: 5,565 ✭✭✭Pangea


    Not an issue with the forecast, but everyday when I check the thread on the mobile it always directs me to the first page from June 2009, pretty annoying. The button for going to the last post doesn't seem to work on mobiles, anyone else have this issue?


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    #26
    Harps
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,548 ✭✭✭Harps


    Usually works for me as long as I'm logged in, if I'm not then I have to click the time below the title, i.e. '3 hours ago' or whatever and it takes me to the newest post


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    #27
    Pangea
    Registered Users Posts: 5,565 ✭✭✭Pangea


    Harps wrote: »
    I have to click the time below the title, i.e. '3 hours ago' or whatever and it takes me to the newest post

    Nice, that works perfect!


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