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25-04-2012, 18:15   #61
Podge_irl
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You'd object to a ruling preventing spots being taken up by non-Irish qualified players yet wouldn't object to a prevention by the PAG?.
Because the new regulations strike most people as draconian and frankly stupid. There are systems already in place to limit the number of foreigners and the PAG or whoever can already stop teams signing players - witness Hines not being offered a new contract. Bringing in such a rigid framework could potentially be counter-productive and if it causes the likes of Nacewa to have to leave then its ridiculous. If Leinster get around the system be re-signing him in a different position or some such tactic then it also makes the rules pointless if they can be worked around that way.

There is also the issue that merely limiting NIQs isn't going to solve anything in and of itself. Witness the enormous amount of time and effort that was put into developing Buckley, yet for all that he remained a sub-standard prop.
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25-04-2012, 19:00   #62
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In hindsight the IRFU should have stated that the new rulings would effect incoming NIQ players only and would not affect the NIQ players in situ.

Also, I didnt see the point that Wigglewoth and Browne had to have a press conference about it. If they were taking it so seriously you'd think he'd a worn a tie to it FFS!
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25-04-2012, 23:40   #63
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If there were two long term injuries to props, I'm sure an exception can be made. It'd be extremely exceptional circumstances.
Wasn't the abolishment of NIE medical jokers one of the main points of the announcement? Its one of the reasons why I was quick to criticise the signing of Thorn (Terblanch is a similar case, but it occurred before the announcement), as it wasn't the time to take advantage of the system IMO. The ability to bring in medical jokers in case of an injury crisis, to provide essential squad cover, is an extremely important facility. Without it, we could likely see the provinces lose out on HEC/Rabo knockout revenue, due to the unavoidable misfortune of injury.
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25-04-2012, 23:54   #64
irishbucsfan
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Wasn't the abolishment of NIE medical jokers one of the main points of the announcement? Its one of the reasons why I was quick to criticise the signing of Thorn (Terblanch is a similar case, but it occurred before the announcement), as it wasn't the time to take advantage of the system IMO. The ability to bring in medical jokers in case of an injury crisis, to provide essential squad cover, is an extremely important facility. Without it, we could likely see the provinces lose out on HEC/Rabo knockout revenue, due to the unavoidable misfortune of injury.
I'm talking about Jaco's example of a team being left with only academy front row players, which could potentially be detrimental to their development. I'd say in that case they could make an exception.

The idea behind the no jokers thing is that Leinster signed Thorn because they would be so desperate for 2nd rows in the Heineken cup. And now Thorn is playing ahead of two fully fit Irish players who are both in great form and who deserve better. Not that I'm complaining, just looking at it from the IRFUs perspective
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28-04-2012, 01:27   #65
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and clearly still haven't. It still doesn't make sense.

There is no carrot, only a stick.
Is the cash that the IRFU distribute to the provinces not a bit of a carrot?
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29-04-2012, 10:07   #66
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Is the cash that the IRFU distribute to the provinces not a bit of a carrot?
What else would they do with the cash? The provinces actually are the IRFU and vice versa. They are not separate entities. They are symbiotic.
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29-04-2012, 10:28   #67
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I'd imagine the provinces generate a significant amount of Revenue for the IRFU. It might not be as much as the national team, but combined, it wouldn't be far off (speculating, not stating fact).

I think the Thorn signing was a little bit cheeky, especially with Leo making a quicker than expected recovery after. But I would rather the scenario where these short term deals could be done and the provinces prosper than to have to throw in an academy lad and get knocked out of competitions and force a young player to be completely out of his depth, which I fail to see any development benefit from.
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29-04-2012, 11:53   #68
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I'd imagine the provinces generate a significant amount of Revenue for the IRFU. It might not be as much as the national team, but combined, it wouldn't be far off (speculating, not stating fact).
Someone else has 'stated fact' that the international game produces 81% of revenue for the union but to be honest I don't really buy that since it relies on IRFU accounts which claims that total provincial income is 9 million between the four provinces.

We all know that ERC television income is around 5 million a year (The IRFU has told us this when campaigning against FTA) so the combined ticket sales for all four provinces is 4 million euro and I really don't buy that.
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29-04-2012, 12:26   #69
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Someone else has 'stated fact' that the international game produces 81% of revenue for the union but to be honest I don't really buy that since it relies on IRFU accounts which claims that total provincial income is 9 million between the four provinces.

We all know that ERC television income is around 5 million a year (The IRFU has told us this when campaigning against FTA) so the combined ticket sales for all four provinces is 4 million euro and I really don't buy that.
Seriously? they surely can't mean that figure? Think about it, Leinster have what say 12000k season ticket holders? Each pays AT LEAST €240 a year. thats 2.8 million already! So its defo more if you consider only a small fraction of STH are terrace dwellers paying the cheapest price.

Assume Munster, Ulster and Connacht would be able to come up with similar numbers for their STH alone...

Agree with your not buying that.
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29-04-2012, 12:28   #70
totallegend
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Originally Posted by CIARAN_BOYLE View Post
Someone else has 'stated fact' that the international game produces 81% of revenue for the union but to be honest I don't really buy that since it relies on IRFU accounts which claims that total provincial income is 9 million between the four provinces.

We all know that ERC television income is around 5 million a year (The IRFU has told us this when campaigning against FTA) so the combined ticket sales for all four provinces is 4 million euro and I really don't buy that.
Yeah, it just doesn't add up so the argument is invalid.

Now, if you say that the €9 million figure is the amount of money kicked into central coffers by the provinces, rather than the total income of the provinces, then it's possible.

As was stated earlier, Leinster have about 14,000 season ticket holders; if you say that a ST costs an average of €300, that's €4.2 million. IIRC, Munster have about 12,000 and Ulster 4,000 (not sure about Connacht). Add to that additional ticket sales, like Leinster filling the Aviva three times over this season, Munster's HC games at Thomond, merchandise, sponsorship and whatever pittance they get for Rabo tv rights, you're looking at multiples of the figures quoted as 'stated fact'.

The argument is of course that they're all branches of the same organisation, which is of course correct, but since we had Munster announcing a deficit last week, there are clearly separate accounts being kept, so basing the argument on an incomplete set of figures is nonsense.
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