Fairy forts

JTolb · 05-04-2012 11:05am

who the fug wrote: »

There is an Irish word for these beliefs called Piseogs, normal usage in English has Stupid before it.

As previous posters have said, most were made up to entertain/warn children.

What about things like holy wells and the cures attributed to them?

briany · 05-04-2012 11:06am

JTolb wrote: »

briany, thanks for the response! What do you think about contemporary people who link current events to the fairies and fairy places, like the Sean Quinn thing? Or, again, the Tara/M3 controversy?

Also, would anyone mind if I use your responses to this thread in my research? I can provide full information about my study if you send me a private message or an email at jeftolbe[ at ]indiana.edu.

If you don't want me to use anything, just let me know and I'll exclude it.

People are entitled to their beliefs. Some people believe in fairy retribution, some in divine retribution, some in karma. I would never judge that but the fact is that Tara is a site of massive archaeological, cultural and, in times past, political importance and if those things matter at all to a people, it should be left well alone before even getting into the whole superstitious element.

To be honest I think feedback on an internet forum could do as a supplemental source - not that I'm telling you how to research, I'm sure you've got it covered- but you'd really want to get in touch with a lad like Eddie Lenihan as well because he's a noted collector of these stories and superstitions, a seanchai. He had some roadworks halted down in Clare a while back because there was a fairy bush in their path and they ended up building the thing around it on his word as well as the stories from locals he had recorded on tape.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dpXnIs57678

http://www.rte.ie/radio1/doconone/eddie.html

JTolb · 05-04-2012 11:14am

I had an interview with Mr. Lenihan just a couple of days ago. Actually his involvement with the fairy tree in Crusheen is what inspired this research topic.

Part of my concern is with understanding how contemporary people think about these issues. Since they're already being talked about on the boards even before I showed up, the forums help to give me a sense of what matters, what's at stake, etc.

In folklore we use ethnography as our primary research tool--meeting and living with people and writing about their experiences and thoughts and culture. As you said, internet research, for me, serves to supplement that kind of research. I've visited places and spoken with people about their own experiences in connection to places with supernatural traditions attached. The forums are a useful way to get in touch with new people and to gain some perspectives that I might not otherwise.

ETA: I forgot to respond to the first bit of your post, briany. I think I see what you're saying--that the significance of Tara comes from its status as part of Irish heritage?

who the fug · 05-04-2012 12:14pm

JTolb wrote: »

What about things like holy wells and the cures attributed to them?

What about them, besides that day in August it never was much of an issue.

JTolb · 05-04-2012 12:23pm

who the fug wrote: »

What about them, besides that day in August it never was much of an issue.

Well, they're another example of beliefs connected to the landscape, at least for some people.

who the fug · 05-04-2012 12:33pm

JTolb wrote: »

Well, they're another example of beliefs connected to the landscape, at least for some people.

My experience of growing up in West Cork in the seventies and eighties was the fact, that only blowins went on about mythical things in the landscape.

To us these things were just there.

Only tradition I liked was the bonfires on St John Night, and the lights on Xmas eve, these were pleasing on the eye.

briany · 05-04-2012 1:04pm

JTolb wrote: »

ETA: I forgot to respond to the first bit of your post, briany. I think I see what you're saying--that the significance of Tara comes from its status as part of Irish heritage?

Yes. As well as that, there may be many archealogical specimens on the hill itself and the surrounding lands yet to be found. The things that are found there mightn't help us in any tangible way other than to learn about the past but that knowledge is very much a worthy end in itself.

who the fug wrote: »

My experience of growing up in West Cork in the seventies and eighties was the fact, that only blowins went on about mythical things in the landscape.

To us these things were just there.

Only tradition I liked was the bonfires on St John Night, and the lights on Xmas eve, these were pleasing on the eye.

Sometimes it takes newcomers to appreciate something the locals would otherwise take for granted. Sometimes they may be appreciating a damp mossy rock with no actual significance, sometimes a viable historical site and it would be annoying if said blowins got self righteous about their quest to save said rock and started lecturing the locals about it but it might be worth suffering that if it protects something worthwhile that would attract people to the area.

Sister Assumpta · 05-04-2012 1:28pm

reilig wrote: »

lads,

This tunnels that ye talk about beneath ring forts and joining ringforts are called "souterrains". They were constructed for storage of food and family values and to protect from attackers - the fort dwellers could go down into them. About 1 in 20 ringforts in Ireland have or used to have a souterrain.

There is loads of documentation about them across the web and in several archiaeological books.

Here are a few links for further info:

http://www.irishmegaliths.org.uk/zDrumenaSout.jpg

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Souterrain

http://enniscronearchaeology.com/souterrains.html

That's fascinating, thanks for that.

We have a fairy fort on our land, in the 1920s my great grand-dad was blinded in an accident when he tried to cut down the trees and remove it (according to my grandmother, who was a terrible liar in fairness - but he was indeed blinded in some accident!).

I don't believe in fairies, and I amn't superstitious, but I think it's a nice, harmless quirk of our culture.

JTolb · 05-04-2012 5:09pm

who the fug wrote: »

My experience of growing up in West Cork in the seventies and eighties was the fact, that only blowins went on about mythical things in the landscape.

To us these things were just there.

Only tradition I liked was the bonfires on St John Night, and the lights on Xmas eve, these were pleasing on the eye.

That's a very interesting point. I'm just as interested in disbelief in the supernatural stuff, as I am in belief.

briany, I hope you don't think I'm a self-righteous blowin! I'm just interested to learn what people actually think about these places and the traditions connected with them--whether someone likes it or hates it, or believes or doesn't believe, or whatever. If a place with these kinds of traditions connected to it enters into your thinking at all, then I'm interested in learning more about it.

Sister Assumpta, that's a great story, especially the way you qualified your grandmother's version!

briany · 05-04-2012 5:29pm

JTolb wrote: »

briany, I hope you don't think I'm a self-righteous blowin! I'm just interested to learn what people actually think about these places and the traditions connected with them--whether someone likes it or hates it, or believes or doesn't believe, or whatever. If a place with these kinds of traditions connected to it enters into your thinking at all, then I'm interested in learning more about it.

No, I was just talking about the sort of bossy people who move to an area to live, get on the town committee, act like they are the embodiment of the local area and try to tell the locals how to feel about the place etc.

I very much like the local legends associated with places. I don't particularly believe in them but two things I do believe are cultural diversity, I don't really agree with a global cultural hegemony, at the expense of the local ones at least, and I believe that the old informs the new.

JTolb · 05-04-2012 5:41pm

briany wrote: »

No, I was just talking about the sort of bossy people who move to an area to live, get on the town committee, act like they are the embodiment of the local area and try to tell the locals how to feel about the place etc.

I very much like the local legends associated with places. I don't particularly believe in them but two things I do believe are cultural diversity, I don't really agree with a global cultural hegemony, at the expense of the local ones at least, and I believe that the old informs the new.

Very good points, definitely. It's very interesting how people interact with places, and how the old and the new can come to exist side by side--like, literally, there on the landscape. I recently visited a place in Tipperary where there were supposedly five ring forts in very close proximity to one another (we located three of them), just off the road. We walked right up into two of them. I wish I knew more about them, but even not knowing the local history, it was an interesting experience.

endacl · 17-07-2016 4:31pm

Big_Evil wrote: »

There was a great big rock that was in one of our fields that really stood out - our land is by no means rocky - right in the Golden Vale as it happens, but anyway, there is this rock that looks like it was randomly dumped there. My grandfather always said that any interference of the rock would turn the faires against us, so the rock remained. About 15 years ago, when clearing the drains around it, my father agonised for a week as to whether or not to have the rock removed while the track machine was there. He finally took the plunge. Now, the rock looked big above the ground, however, it was 2 and a half times bigger under the ground - it was feckin' huge ! Managed to bury it, but always wonder how it got there

A glacier dumped it. How do you think the valley got there?

Interestingly enough, it was buried over the centuries by the action of earthworms.

Kovu · 17-07-2016 4:47pm

Old thread- closed.

Fairy forts

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