[hurler on de ditch]

Originally Posted by Deise Doodler

There are no positives for playing 1B next year or any year, the goal ultimtely is to win an ireland, we are only going to do this by playing the best, we might not have the players to do this at the moment but they are good enough (or should be ) to be at least playing 1A
The diference between us and the rest of 1A is mostly down to speed and our lack of it in almost every aspect of our game, we might not have the greatest fielders of the ball but that can be compensated for with the right style of play but it if its not happening in training then its not going to happen in a game, Its not rocket science, and going down to 1B is not going to make us any faster

good man yourself ,first sentence says it all

[Hslaw]

were on a collision course with 1B and have now way out, we haven't a hope of staying up in 1A,and if we do. we will become the whipping boys of that division. or golden age is over. what have to show for it a few Munster medals and winning the league in 07..

i'd trade them all for one AI medal

[Deise Doodler]

Originally Posted by The blue blaa

How can we develop a style of play when were gettin hammered this does nothing for the confidence of a young team in transition. regards our fitness or speed as you call it were as fit as any team on championship day,I'd be more worried about our hurling considering a tipp team missing prob as many key players as us managed to get 31 points today 26 of those from play scored by 11 different players.. We got 17 scores today I hope people don't expect Mullane to solve this crisis alone but I honestly think 1B is prob the best for development of such a young team I think we'd come on leaps an bounds with a year down Clare an Limerick are not doing too bad. Davy will have Clare buzzing when we meet they'l be favourites in my book if we don't get a win in the league

[


You develop that style on the training pitch , you test it during games, no better test than the old enemeys


Am not talking about fitness, fitness is a slow build, can forgive players running out of steam at this time of year, im talking about speed at striking, hand to eye cordination, attacking the ball , decision making, burst of pace, etc this can only be achived if players are doing everything at a min of 100% intensity in training, yes the drills don't look as good (an their doing to many of them I reckon) and mistakes will be made during games (training and real) but that is how players develop.


The fact that we got 17 score today shows we have the players and no Mullane will not solve the problem but might just bring back a bit of passion and leadership (crest kissing and all)

Leaps and bounds ? why do you think Clare are bursting a gut so early in the year, to get out of it I belive

[DublinGAA96]

Originally Posted by Hslaw

were on a collision course with 1B and have now way out, we haven't a hope of staying up in 1A,and if we do. we will become the whipping boys of that division. or golden age is over. what have to show for it a few Munster medals and winning the league in 07..

i'd trade them all for one AI medal

As much as it pains me to say it, he really is right. The golden era of Waterford Hurling is over for another few years. The best chance we had of winning an All Ireland was in 04 and 07. Think of the panel we possessed back then, Ken McGrath, big Dan, Paul Flynn, John Mullane, Tony Browne, Eoin Kelly, the prendergasts, to name a few, they were all in their prime back then and were destined to win but just didn't take the chances. That was the best chance we had. Look at the panel now, there miles upon miles behind the panel back in the golden years and are streets behind. An all Ireland wont be won with the current panel. Will have to wait a few years for next generation, and even at that, players like Ken McGrath and Big Dan come once in a lifetime. I mean Ken and Dan were just unbelievable hurlers there absolute legends. This probably going back to far but I think the players should never of got rid of Justin.

[carter10]

"The biggest worry I have is that we are not playing well all over the field. We're just not up to the pace of the game. We don't look sharp, we don't look fit and we don't look mentally focused. And that's something the management must sort out."

Above is the statement from Michael Ryan after yesterdays game, apparently this is something the management have to sort out. It seems to be lost on him that this is something management should never have let happen in the first place. He goes on to say that they cant rely on Mullane to come in and sort things out. The whole tone of his statement seems to be placing the blame of the last 3 hidings on the players. Last week his excuse was they had 7/8 players to come back in.
Training is a joke,the team lack any coherent plan but the problem lies with the players who" lack focus". I supported Ryan when he was appointed and felt he should be given time but it is obvious now that he and his management team are lightweights. When a manager makes a statement like the one above there can be only one possible outcome, lets hope its sooner rather that later.

[deisebhoy17]

Originally Posted by carter10

"The biggest worry I have is that we are not playing well all over the field. We're just not up to the pace of the game. We don't look sharp, we don't look fit and we don't look mentally focused. And that's something the management must sort out."

Above is the statement from Michael Ryan after yesterdays game, apparently this is something the management have to sort out. It seems to be lost on him that this is something management should never have let happen in the first place. He goes on to say that they cant rely on Mullane to come in and sort things out. The whole tone of his statement seems to be placing the blame of the last 3 hidings on the players. Last week his excuse was they had 7/8 players to come back in.
Training is a joke,the team lack any coherent plan but the problem lies with the players who" lack focus". I supported Ryan when he was appointed and felt he should be given time but it is obvious now that he and his management team are lightweights. When a manager makes a statement like the one above there can be only one possible outcome, lets hope its sooner rather that later.

The blame lies with both the players and the management. The players that crossed the white line onto the pitch yesterday showed no desire to win the game. They were beaten before they even left the bus. Thats something the players themselves have got to look at. As for the management I think they are clueless as to whats needed to make us compete. Its once thing to say its a learning curve and to give it time but from what I can see they dont even know what their meant to be learning.

[Mountainlad]

Originally Posted by carter10

"The biggest worry I have is that we are not playing well all over the field. We're just not up to the pace of the game. We don't look sharp, we don't look fit and we don't look mentally focused. And that's something the management must sort out."

Above is the statement from Michael Ryan after yesterdays game, apparently this is something the management have to sort out. It seems to be lost on him that this is something management should never have let happen in the first place. He goes on to say that they cant rely on Mullane to come in and sort things out. The whole tone of his statement seems to be placing the blame of the last 3 hidings on the players. Last week his excuse was they had 7/8 players to come back in.
Training is a joke,the team lack any coherent plan but the problem lies with the players who" lack focus". I supported Ryan when he was appointed and felt he should be given time but it is obvious now that he and his management team are lightweights. When a manager makes a statement like the one above there can be only one possible outcome, lets hope its sooner rather that later.

Stall the ball there, he just accepted responsibility yet you say he's shifting the blame?

I heard the interview, I was worried before he made the comment you quoted when he mentioned they still had Mullane and a few to come back in, but after it he said that there may be players missing but that's still no excuse for the performance yesterday.

We kept Davy Fitzgerald for 3 years despite getting hammered by Kilkenny in the All-Ireland final. Fitzgerald came out afterwards and accepted responsibility. Applying your principle of 'management should not have let it happen', should he have been fired there and then? What about last year after the Tipp game when in his column in the Star he took absolutely no responsibility for probably the worst managerial performance I have ever seen in any sport in my life.

I know yesterdays performance wasn't good enough and we need to show some good strides of improvement before we play that relegation playoff, but you can't ignore the fact that Mullane, Connors, Ringo and Paudi Mahony were all missing. David O'Sullivan was listed on the bench, I suspect that means he's returning from injury and thing he will be a good addition to the team as he has been one of the most impressive players I've seen in the county championship the past two years.

We did lose too Tipp by 21 points last year, and while I know they don't have Lar Corbett and Bonner Maher, they have quality players like John O'Neill and Shane Bourke who were looking to stake a claim for a place in the team as well as Brendan Maher an though he wasn't their best performer yesterday he played pretty well and I do believe he is their best player and wasn't even available for selection last year against us when they slaughtered us, he was only brought on late.

Anyone calling for Ryan's head at this stage is being both unrealistic and unfair.

Bottom line is if we don't get relegated, than a lot of attitudes will change and all will temporarily be forgiven. It tells you the caliber of the league when the reigning champions who appear to be an ever improving side, who managed to score 6 goals against Kilkenny for what must be the first time in 20 years, are also likely to be facing a one off match to decide whether they stay in the Division.

[deisebhoy17]

Originally Posted by Mountainlad

It tells you the caliber of the league when the reigning champions who appear to be an ever improving side, who managed to score 6 goals against Kilkenny for what must be the first time in 20 years, are also likely to be facing a one off match to decide whether they stay in the Division.

It shows how much were out of our depth in this division if you ask me. Cant see us getting anything out of these last 2 games. Dublin have surpassed us unfortunately. Unless we have a full strength team they will eat us alive and thats not forgetting they are missing a good few themselves

[lovelypoint]

Originally Posted by Hslaw

were on a collision course with 1B and have now way out, we haven't a hope of staying up in 1A,and if we do. we will become the whipping boys of that division.

We may be on a collision course for 1B if we can't pull out all the stops and deliver a championship-like performance to send down Dublin. If we do stay up, I am not sure we would become the whipping boys of 1A, or rather we would only become that, if we continued to treat the league as if it were an 8-team division.

The other teams, have adapted pretty quickly to the fact all games are pretty much do-or-die games, but we have been seriously off the pace, perhaps treating the league as we would have in years gone past. After all, are we seriously saying we could not give Cork/ Galway/ Clare or Limerick a game, if we managed to stay in 1A and were motoring ok next year..

[DublinGAA96]

Originally Posted by Mountainlad

Stall the ball there, he just accepted responsibility yet you say he's shifting the blame?

I heard the interview, I was worried before he made the comment you quoted when he mentioned they still had Mullane and a few to come back in, but after it he said that there may be players missing but that's still no excuse for the performance yesterday.

We kept Davy Fitzgerald for 3 years despite getting hammered by Kilkenny in the All-Ireland final. Fitzgerald came out afterwards and accepted responsibility. Applying your principle of 'management should not have let it happen', should he have been fired there and then? What about last year after the Tipp game when in his column in the Star he took absolutely no responsibility for probably the worst managerial performance I have ever seen in any sport in my life.

I know yesterdays performance wasn't good enough and we need to show some good strides of improvement before we play that relegation playoff, but you can't ignore the fact that Mullane, Connors, Ringo and Paudi Mahony were all missing. David O'Sullivan was listed on the bench, I suspect that means he's returning from injury and thing he will be a good addition to the team as he has been one of the most impressive players I've seen in the county championship the past two years.

We did lose too Tipp by 21 points last year, and while I know they don't have Lar Corbett and Bonner Maher, they have quality players like John O'Neill and Shane Bourke who were looking to stake a claim for a place in the team as well as Brendan Maher an though he wasn't their best performer yesterday he played pretty well and I do believe he is their best player and wasn't even available for selection last year against us when they slaughtered us, he was only brought on late.

Anyone calling for Ryan's head at this stage is being both unrealistic and unfair.

Bottom line is if we don't get relegated, than a lot of attitudes will change and all will temporarily be forgiven. It tells you the caliber of the league when the reigning champions who appear to be an ever improving side, who managed to score 6 goals against Kilkenny for what must be the first time in 20 years, are also likely to be facing a one off match to decide whether they stay in the Division.

Ringo hasn't been on the panel for 3 years at least(I think) and yet he's one of the 'main players' that your relying on when he returns? Come on lads. He can't surely be one of the key players to save our season can he?

[doz]

Originally Posted by lovelypoint

The other teams, have adapted pretty quickly to the fact all games are pretty much do-or-die games, but we have been seriously off the pace, perhaps treating the league as we would have in years gone past. After all, are we seriously saying we could not give Cork/ Galway/ Clare or Limerick a game, if we managed to stay in 1A and were motoring ok next year..

I think this is a very interesting point and maybe some of the players have not mentally adapted to the fact that to stay in the league in its current format, the 5 games are as you say, do or die. If we're all honest, in previous years we used the league to experiment, knowing that we would almost be guaranteed to win two games against weaker counties and thus never have the threat of relegation hanging over us. I'm not making excuses for the performances in this year's league which have not been accepatble but the new format has definitely changed the way counties are approaching the league. We do not seem to have adoped to this and obviously the buck for that has to rest with the management.

That all said, I think we have to remember that this team with these same players reached an All Ireland semi final last year, beating one of the teams now suddenly perceived to be streets ahead of us well (Galway) and pushing the eventual winners extremely hard in the semi final. The team has not suddenly become a crowd of no hopers over the course of a few months. This management are in for at least this season and I think that they have to be judged on the basis of the Championship and as far as I know, that does not start until June. These players deserve our full support.

[PTH2009]

Originally Posted by doz

I think this is a very interesting point and maybe some of the players have not mentally adapted to the fact that to stay in the league in its current format, the 5 games are as you say, do or die. If we're all honest, in previous years we used the league to experiment, knowing that we would almost be guaranteed to win two games against weaker counties and thus never have the threat of relegation hanging over us. I'm not making excuses for the performances in this year's league which have not been accepatble but the new format has definitely changed the way counties are approaching the league. We do not seem to have adoped to this and obviously the buck for that has to rest with the management.

That all said, I think we have to remember that this team with these same players reached an All Ireland semi final last year, beating one of the teams now suddenly perceived to be streets ahead of us well (Galway) and pushing the eventual winners extremely hard in the semi final. The team has not suddenly become a crowd of no hopers over the course of a few months. This management are in for at least this season and I think that they have to be judged on the basis of the Championship and as far as I know, that does not start until June. These players deserve our full support.

The championship structure in place in quite difficult and over the past few years we have escaped very lightly. if we beat clare then we are through to a munster final and at least an all ireland quarter final and if we lose to clare than its the quilfers were we be pitted against one of the 2 losing leinster semi finalists (Dublin, Offaly,Galway,Wexford or Kilkenny).

A private traning session in tramore could solve things once again if need be

[Deise Doodler]

Originally Posted by deisebhoy17

The blame lies with both the players and the management. The players that crossed the white line onto the pitch yesterday showed no desire to win the game. They were beaten before they even left the bus. Thats something the players themselves have got to look at. As for the management I think they are clueless as to whats needed to make us compete. Its once thing to say its a learning curve and to give it time but from what I can see they dont even know what their meant to be learning.

+ 1

[deisebhoy17]

Originally Posted by doz

That all said, I think we have to remember that this team with these same players reached an All Ireland semi final last year, beating one of the teams now suddenly perceived to be streets ahead of us well (Galway) and pushing the eventual winners extremely hard in the semi final. The team has not suddenly become a crowd of no hopers over the course of a few months

your right they haven',t but I think weve definetly gone backwards from last year again.

The way I see it the great Waterford team over the past 15 years with the likes of Flynn, McGrath, Shanahan ect. had more or less run its course once Justin went in June 08. Or probably even after the 07 semi defeat to Limerick. We have disimproved gradually every season since. In 08 we snuck into an AI final without having played particularly well that year, bar the 08 semi against Tipp we caught them on the hop. We were completely found out in the final against KK.
09 was basically about getting pride back after the 08 massacre and in 10 we probably peaked under Davy Fitz, or an ageing team got a bit of a second wind, whatever way you want to look at it. We had some good results in the league that year and got munster championship out of it. Last year though we were back to square one and only a shadow of the team we were, bar the quarter final win against Galway which was a great performance, we were very much on the wane. Im starting to beleive that Davy had us playing actually above ourselves not beneath ourselves like everyone has been suggesting

[parish girl]

Heard the players have requested a meeting with management tonight to address concern re training.
Training has not been up to the standard required at this level. Hence Ml Ryan is right to be concerned at the fitness levels. Unfortunately he doesn't seem to realise thats down to him. Reminds me a lot of end of Justins reign. Players not happy, and I've heard from people who have attended training sessions that it is more like a Junior B session with players barely breaking sweat.
I think we're going nowhere fast, but county board dont have the spine to deal with the problem and if there is to be a change they will wait for the players to rebel.
Agree with the poster who says no benefit to us playing in 1B. When is the right time to bring in new management. Is it after relegation, or after Clare beat us or should we see the year out for the sake of it. I'd say now