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HEC: Castres Olymique vs Munster, Sat 19 Nov 3:40pm; Pre/During/Post Match Thread
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irishbucsfan wrote: »This is exactly my point. Play terribly and get saved by O'Gara. You claim you're missing 3 Lions. One is 36, one is 33 and hasn't managed a full game of rugby in years.
If O'Gara had missed those kicks people would be rightfully talking about poor Munster performances and highlighting their lazy defense, their poor discipline, their lack of control, their poor game management etc. But because he made those kicks and saved Munster, people will just talk about the result.
Surely the performance is important as well, and the performances are just getting worse and worse. Munster are not improving, they're not transitioning. Their defense tonight in the first half was advancing maybe half a foot by the time the opposition reached it. Where was the passion? It took two tries by the opposition to wake them up and that opposition was starting only 4 first teamers. Munster were as bad tonight as they've been in European competition in recent years, but because they won people will talk about how great they are to win away. And because they got a few breaks from the ref and then were saved against Northampton (who were hockeyed by Llanelli last night at home) people talk about beating last year's finalists.
It's denial, it's clinging onto a long-departed glory, it's a refusal to take a step back and take a realistic and critical look at what was once the best team in Europe. It's cancerous and it'll just lead to a further slide. Munster fans should hold their team to a higher standard than that. They're not the brave and faithful anymore, they're the ageing and self-deceptive. And fans who live to worship Ronan O'Gara, who has had two average performances culminating in two incredible match-winning kicks, are just enabling it. And yet the headlines will read Miracle Match again. The miracle is that Munster aren't at the bottom of their group.
To each of the bolded in order:
- So many people claiming Munster were "terrible". Eh, they held their own at the scrum, did well at lineout, moved the ball well throughout the game, created lots of try scoring opportunities. Perfect? No. Exceptional? No. Terrible? No;
- Because results see you progress, and to underestimate digging out results in that manner in consecutive must win games is to completely miss the point;
- The last two performances were a vast improvement over Ospreys and Touloun away last season. You want to believe they aren't getting better, but trust me - if you're paying attention things are better this year;
- Two weeks in a row they've managed to go through multiple phases in injury time to dig out a win and you're asking where the passion is? Last week's finish was passion personified. C'mon son;
- You and others are making a key mistake. You are ignoring how the fact of winning ties like the last two weeks is in of itself what was missing last year. And getting those wins doesn't happen by accident (just as losing last year wasn't by accident). Also, don't forget that Munster were semi-finalists in 2010. Last year was awful, but it was so awful precisely because it is as bad as things ever were;
- A five point defeat is a hockeying?;
- People who downplay what went on the past two weeks and underestimate the poise and composure demonstrated under such immense pressure aren't properly appreciating sport imo;
- The last sentence is "Haters gonna Hate" territory tbh;0 -
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You're right, terrible is an unfair overstatement. But Munster were playing an understrength team who were being boycotted by their own fans.LuckyLloyd wrote: »To each of the bolded in order:
- So many people claiming Munster were "terrible". Eh, they held their own at the scrum, did well at lineout, moved the ball well throughout the game, created lots of try scoring opportunities. Perfect? No. Exceptional? No. Terrible? No;
That is true. But in the same way, to just look at results and completely ignore poor performances is to miss the point as well. And ignoring performances in 2010 led to last season.- Because results see you progress, and to underestimate digging out results in that manner in consecutive must win games is to completely miss the point;
I actually missed Toulon away last season because I was playing a match at the same time, but it was not an improvement over a full-strength Ospreys away last season. I disagree with that.- The last two performances were a vast improvement over Ospreys and Touloun away last season. You want to believe they aren't getting better, but trust me - if you're paying attention things are better this year;
My point was unclear, I meant passion in relation to their first half play.- Two weeks in a row they've managed to go through multiple phases in injury time to dig out a win and you're asking where the passion is? Last week's finish was passion personified. C'mon son;
I think the opposite. You are saying that last year was an abberation because Musnter couldn't pull off ridiculously good last minute drop goals. I'm saying that relying on those is papering over the cracks.- You and others are making a key mistake. You are ignoring how the fact of winning ties like the last two weeks is in of itself what was missing last year. And getting those wins doesn't happen by accident (just as losing last year wasn't by accident). Also, don't forget that Munster were semi-finalists in 2010. Last year was awful, but it was so awful precisely because it is as bad as things ever were;
I'm guessing you didn't watch the game?- A five point defeat is a hockeying?;
I'm not underestimating the last few minutes at all!- People who downplay what went on the past two weeks and underestimate the poise and composure demonstrated under such immense pressure aren't properly appreciating sport imo;
In what way?- The last sentence is "Haters gonna Hate" territory tbh;0 -
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There were negatives in both games, but there were positives too. Can you not let us enjoy a big win in our season without trying to rain on our parade.
No it's just that we seem to be able to credibly analyse a game which we played poorly in and won!!
Munster could very easily win that pool, and indeed should be looking to, but anyone without bias would see that the first two wins, while mesmeric, were a little fortuitious due to reffing and idiotic play by the opposition!
ROG will surely get a 10/10 from Thornley and the boys for that though.
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What the hell are you talking about?!
You say Scarlets were lucky last night, and then go on about Munster, who scored two tries from complete luck!
Listen lads, hype up your province all you want, as always, say how good ROG was today and last week despite two mediocre performances. Go on about percieved reffing injustices and ignore the fact that Owens reffed Northampton off the pitch last week. Harp on about the Munster "spirit" etc.
The facts are, they've played poorly for the last three weeks in a row, and but for dogged determination and poor play/reffing against them, they would have last all three.
It's very thin lines, and fair play, Munster are two from two, but a lot on here are hyping this up as a great performance, which it wasn't.
Leinster drew in Montpellier last week and we all went on about it was poor and we were lucky to get out of there.
After the final whistle tonight, you had people ignoring 79 mins of play, and saying Munster were great and ROG played brilliantly!
The media will no doubt say the same, just like last week, but Scarlets are two from two, and had the harder of the two games. They play Munster at home next and are in control of the pool.
It seems that our Southern cousins are glass half full men, because a 3 point win against that team is grand, but nothing to say they're world beaters.
I'm surprised a poster such as yourself would post the above.
Phog acknowledged how lucky we were today. See, check his first line there. That's the one
None of the media I was reading were saying Munster played brilliantly the last week.
Nobody's talking Munster up. A win is a win however, and that's to be acknowledged.
An away win in the south of France for a transitional team, with two game-breakers out injured, is a very good achievement.
Scarlets hold no fear for Munster.0 -
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I'm surprised a poster such as yourself would post the above.
Phog acknowledged how lucky we were today. See, check his first line there. That's the one
None of the media I was reading were saying Munster played brilliantly the last week.
Nobody's talking Munster up. A win is a win however, and that's to be acknowledged.
An away win in the south of France for a transitional team, with two game-breakers out injured, is a very good achievement.
Scarlets hold no fear for Munster.
You obviously didn't see last Monday's papers then?
That's exactly what I'm saying tbh, a win is a win, and a great win at that, but to say that was a great performance is skewing what actually happened for the first 79 mins.
Scarlets may hold no fear for Munster, but it is they who control the group at this stage.0 -
darragh_haven wrote: »Your one to talk at times Wix. You are always concentrating on the negative when talking about munster. why not just concentrate on the leinster thread, and stop trying to get under the skin of munster supporters:mad:. As my mother said.. if you have nothing good to say, shut your pie hole. (and i'm a leinster supporter sayin this)
Good to know that you're concentrating on my posts. 0 -
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