BIG RANT-People that walk their dogs off the leesh

RojoMojo · 12-03-2011 7:21pm #1

Huge gripe of mine is people who walk their dogs without a leesh or people that allow their dogs wander outside their gardens all over the street.

I have a young doberman, and he is fantastic dog, very well behaved, intelligent, friendly and independent etc.

Being a young dog and the breed he is, his walking manner isnt fantastic, he pulls alot, jumps about and acts abit mad the bit of freedom going to his head.
Im doing my best to train him to behave him better while out walking and slowly but surely its working
Dog is kept always on short lessh and muzzled most of the time, he really hates it but better safe then sorry. In really busy areas or at busy times the muzzle be on but in quieter places or later times when less people around Id let him go muzzle free.

Dog is grand with people, problem is with other dogs, he is very territorial and goes absolutely bannanas when encounters another dogs, which I can handle, correcting dog as best I can.

What annoys me most is encountering dogs being walked without a leesh, I do have to go trouble of bringing the dog accross the street to avoid them incase of trouble.
Same with dogs that are left in their gardens unsupervised and allowed wander.
Its makes things harder for those of us who abide by the rules

A good example was other day, was walking him and we came accross a little scot terrier walking leesh free a good bit away from its owner.
The little dog flew toward my dog, barking at him, and making lunges, I held my dog back best I could, but the little dog basically made a lunge into my dogs mouth and my dog got hold and you can imagine what happened,
The woman that the small dog ran down and scolded me for my dog attacking her little dog, despite me having the dog on 1 meter leesh, under control, with a muzzle in my pocket, her dog wandering round free to bark and lunge at other dogs.

So could people here who allow their dogs roam free when walking please consider those of us do our best obey the rules
I dont want my dog tearing apart another dog or hurting another dog, but if he does it not my fault

By the way, out of curiousity, if my dog was to by chance injure an unleeshed dog while I had him leeshed and or muzzled, would I be liable?

Really gets up my nose

PurpleFistMixer · 12-03-2011 7:53pm

I think my dog is happier off the lead, so I walk her like that. It gives her freedom to run around and sniff things and be a dog. I keep her away from other dogs if it looks like they won't get along, though, since she's a small thing and wouldn't fare well in a fight.

pitbull_fanatic · 12-03-2011 7:54pm

unfortunatly yes bud. no matter how well behaved our dogs are there are always little brave ****s that start on our dogs and people just blame the RB straight away. nothing we can do except prevent it. but if you are approached by an offlead dog, keep your cool. dont stop moving or pulling him. just keep walking straight as if nothing happens. if your dog makes eye contact with a dog its going to be a fight. so keep walking. if your dog tries to look at him give his lead a jerk to the side but keep on ur way. if the off lead dog sees your dog walking away they usually give up

TooManyDogs · 12-03-2011 8:17pm

Unfortunately if you don't have a muzzle on him you are liable

Steve30x · 12-03-2011 8:20pm

I leave my dog off the leash in the park , but only if there are no other dogs around. If somebody else comes alone with a dog I will call my dog and put her on the leash. She will always come to me when I call her.

As for that woman that scolded you , well it was not your fault and she should have had more respect by putting her dog on the lead when she saw you had a dog with you. If another dog was off lead and came at my dog I wouldnt just stand by and leave the dog off with it.

Ive come across a few people like that with dogs that arent friendly to other dogs , but they have a cheek to leave them off the lead in public areas. Thankfully my dog is very friendly towards other dogs. Even so I will always have her on the lead when theres other dogs around for respect of the other dog owners.

golden8 · 12-03-2011 8:39pm

It is not illegal to have your dog off the lead (except RB which have to be leashed and muzzled) however they do need to under control so if a dog owner has no control of dog hence should be on a lead.

Off course there are exceptions to this law and it generally is in public parks where councils own then that dogs should be on a leash, generally signs are up.

Cherry Blossom · 12-03-2011 11:37pm

Outside of RB law the dog has to be under effective control, as far as I'm concerned if makes no difference if it's on a lead or not, a dog on a lead can be every bit as out of control as one off the lead. In this situation it sounds like neither dog was under any sort of control. OP are you sure that the ST instigated this disagreement? Terriers are very brave and fearless and will stand up for themselves. If your dog even gave it a 'look' first then your dog was the instigator. Either way it sounds like your dog is definately in need of a lot of socialisation and training. I'm sure you're aware that as the owner of a restricted breed your are not only subject to biased laws but become an example of whether or not they should stay in place or scrapped. When you acquire a restricted breed you inadvertantly become an ambasador of the breed more so than others so you carry more responsibility than others to do whatever is necessary to make your dog a prime example of why The Restricted Breeds Act is a load of tosh, not the opposite.

<ETA>
Just to clarify when I say you need to do whatever is necessary I don't mean beat the crap out of your dog, I mean you take the dog to socialisation classes in a controlled environment, this is the only way a dog can be taught what is appropriate behaviour towards other dogs. You , also need to teach obedience, regardless of what you think your skills in this area are absolutely everyone can benefit hugely from a professional trainer that endorses positive reinforcement, an impartial third-party that knows what they are talking about is a valuable tool to anyone.

Ponder013 · 13-03-2011 2:34am

My JRT is completely blind, so always on the lead, he's also very dog aggressive. about six months ago, he barked at an off leash german shep who lunged at him, my boy then got a lucky strike and locked onto the german shep's lip, causing a considerable wound. The GS ran off screaming, I heard later that the owner spent three hours looking for him.

I felt awful, as you can imagine, even more so when the GS owner tried to charge me €800 for vets fees and 'inconvenience'. I called my solicitor who told me to ignore it. I had my boy on the lead, so took 'due care' and was not responsible for any damage to the other dog.

I heard later that the GS had attacked and badly injured another JRT while it was on the lead about two weeks prior to my incident, so I suppose we had a lucky escape.

I don't think it's just irresponsibility with owners like that, I think it's an attitude problem.

mymo · 13-03-2011 8:42am

I walk my dogs off lead most days, but in an area that is wooded or along a river bank. I meet many dogs on my walk, if I see an owner with a dog on a lead I put my two on the lead, same if I see the owner calling their dog to them to leash them. Its just common sense, mine are very friendly but not all dogs are, I don't want to irritate another dog by mine going in for a sniff or wagging and bouncing around for a play, if the other dog isn't friendly.
I do wonder about people sometimes though, I have had dogs run at us barking like loons or growling while the owner calls madly and runs to catch the dog, also have loads of off lead dogs around town here, but most are ok, but my two have been attacked several times.
Its a matter of respect for other people and their animals, but when its a large dog or restricted breed you'll always get the blame, people can be idiots.

sotisme · 13-03-2011 10:54am

My dog is kept on lead all the time apart from the beach/park. He is very timid in front of other dogs and if another dog approaches him he can sometimes look at the other dog in the eye(in a scared manner), or do something to provoke the other dog. It's actually sad seeing a dog that has just snapped at ours go over to another dog and start playing with them. So most of the time if we see another dog approaching I put my dog on the lead.

Irresponsible owners can be very annoying. Once, a dog came running over to my dog and me, jumping all over me and snapping and peeing all over my dog. The dog appeared to have no owner, there was a woman further out the beach on her phone looking at us but surely she would have called her dog back seeing this. As frustrating as it was I had to keep walking with the dog trailing along by my side. After walking about half a mile down the beach, the "owner" who was the person that was watching from the start came running up to me and grabbed the dog. She thought we were trying to take it or something?! I tried to explain to her what had happened but she was foreign and just kept saying "yes,yes" to everything I said. I had had to lift my dog that had just been peed on because the other dog was snapping at him and i didn't want a fight to start. Very frustrating.

micheleabc · 13-03-2011 11:02am

RojoMojo wrote: »

By the way, out of curiousity, if my dog was to by chance injure an unleeshed dog while I had him leeshed and or muzzled, would I be liable?

Really gets up my nose

The answer is yes, you will be liable. There is a lot of confusion about dog laws; according with CONTROL OF DOGS ACT, 1986 (link: http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/1986/en/act/pub/0032/index.html#zza32y1986) a dog in a public place has to be under effective control all the times. The leash is not mentioned and for a good reason, if someone is not able to control his/her dog the leash can have the opposite effect of pushing the dog to fight (fight or flight condition). In the other end if you can control your dog, the leash will be an effective help.
The only real effect of a leash is to reduce the range of the animal, in within that range if the owner has not control the effect of the leash can be a disaster.
I personally believe that the best control you can have on a dog is teaching the dog to have self control (the dog will not attack and will repel any attack without violence at any distance from the owner) which can be achieved only trough a good socialization.
According to an UCD study the majority of dog-biting attacks take place when a person is walking past a dog's territory or in the house of the dog owner. It is clear that the leash has no role in keeping a dog under control.
If you are afraid of your dog attacking another one I recommend socialization classes, in that way both the dog and the owner will learn how to manage situations in presence of other dogs without recurring to violence.

borderlinemeath · 13-03-2011 11:06am

Agree with adrenalinjunkie, sounds like your dog needs socialisation and training on the lead.

I let my setter run off the lead, she's a hunter and if I walked her for the entire day on the lead I couldn't give her the excercise she needs but she gets it in an hours run off the lead on either the beach or the countryside.

She has excellent recall and as such I am always in control. If she met an aggressive dog she would return to my side as she is quite timid. I actually think she needs more dog socialisation as sometimes she's too timid.

ISDW · 13-03-2011 11:55am

micheleabc wrote: »

The answer is yes, you will be liable. There is a lot of confusion about dog laws; according with CONTROL OF DOGS ACT, 1986 (link: http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/1986/en/act/pub/0032/index.html#zza32y1986)a dog in a public place has to be under effective control all the times. The leash is not mentioned and for a good reason, if someone is not able to control his/her dog the leash can have the opposite effect of pushing the dog to fight (fight or flight condition). In the other end if you can control your dog, the leash will be an effective help.
The only real effect of a leash is to reduce the range of the animal, in within that range if the owner has not control the effect of the leash can be a disaster.
I personally believe that the best control you can have on a dog is teaching the dog to have self control (the dog will not attack and will repel any attack without violence at any distance from the owner) which can be achieved only trough a good socialization.
According to an UCD study the majority of dog-biting attacks take place when a person is walking past a dog's territory or in the house of the dog owner. It is clear that the leash has no role in keeping a dog under control.
If you are afraid of your dog attacking another one I recommend socialization classes, in that way both the dog and the owner will learn how to manage situations in presence of other dogs without recurring to violence.

The OP's dog is a restricted breed, so by law it has to be kept on a lead and muzzled, you are right that dogs not on the RB list have to be under effective control, and there is no mention of a leash, but it is very clearly stated in the law pertaining to restricted breeds.

In case people haven't read these threads previously, I do not agree with the law, I believe in deed not breed, but it is the law.

eilo1 · 13-03-2011 12:14pm

I agree with the other posters that the OP's dog needs to be socialised. Also I would not be taking the chance of walking that dog unmuzzled until I could be sure it wont attack another dog.

I let my dog off the lead every time I walk him. As soon as I get to the beach, he is off. He is very social and loves to play with other dogs. He is also very well behaved. Unfortunately sometimes people are nervous of him as he is a GS. But once they realise how friendly he is they normally end up petting him and say something like "oh he is lovely I thought he would eat my dog".
I think this is good for educating people about how a well socialised dog no matter what breed or size can be a great pet.

Also the bylaws in our area say that a god must be under "effective control" not on a leash. We have never muzzled any of our dogs and are lucky that it has never been an issue, the Gardie here normally pet my dog as they walk past him!

ISDW · 13-03-2011 12:17pm

eilo1 wrote: »

I agree with the other posters that the OP's dog needs to be socialised. Also I would not be taking the chance of walking that dog unmuzzled until I could be sure it wont attack another dog.

I let my dog off the lead every time I walk him. As soon as I get to the beach, he is off. He is very social and loves to play with other dogs. He is also very well behaved. Unfortunately sometimes people are nervous of him as he is a GS. But once they realise how friendly he is they normally end up petting him and say something like "oh he is lovely I thought he would eat my dog".
I think this is good for educating people about how a well socialised dog no matter what breed or size can be a great pet.

Also the bylaws in our area say that a god must be under "effective control" not on a leash. We have never muzzled any of our dogs and are lucky that it has never been an issue, the Gardie here normally pet my dog as they walk past him!

Thats great, and its lovely that he gets to have so much fun, but the country's laws state that your dog must be leashed and muzzled, so if anything ever did happen, you couldn't use the local bylaws as a defence, that is only for dogs not on the RB list:(

eilo1 · 13-03-2011 12:19pm

I know I know I know I just meant for non RB dogs.:)

LB6 · 15-03-2011 10:57am

I normally take the springer pup walking in a fairly quiet area - where he can run and be free and under observation at all times. On the street walking - he's kept on a short leash and taken to one side to let others pass by.

One day, we were in our usual spot and Flint was having a ball when an auld fella with a JRT came on the scene. He had a lead, but not on his dog. I'm not too keen on JRT's tbh, so called my guy and immediately put him on his lead and took him off to one side. Would you believe, aside from the JRT coming over to check out the scene, the man came up to me and said I was making a mistake for putting my dog on the lead, as it gives the unleashed dog the advantage and the dominant position. Whereas if I left Flint off-lead, the two dogs would be on equal footing and there would be less chance of a fight! :eek:

I was dumbfounded!

Bloody cheek! :mad:

pH · 15-03-2011 11:29am

LB6 wrote: »

Would you believe, aside from the JRT coming over to check out the scene, the man came up to me and said I was making a mistake for putting my dog on the lead, as it gives the unleashed dog the advantage and the dominant position. Whereas if I left Flint off-lead, the two dogs would be on equal footing and there would be less chance of a fight! :eek:

I was dumbfounded!

Bloody cheek! :mad:

While I agree it was a cheek telling you what you should be doing with your dog, it's my experience that some dogs do behave differently to other dogs on and off the lead. Maybe they feel they're protecting the owner, maybe they just feel the owner is their backup, maybe because of the lead they know that their 'flight' response is not available all that's left is their 'fight' response. All I know is that some dogs behave more aggressively to other dogs when on the lead. Off the lead my spaniel avoids other dogs, on the lead once in a blue moon he'll bark at another dog.

pitbull_fanatic · 15-03-2011 11:46am

in a way he's right in what he says. its not that the off leash dog gets a dominant view. its the fact that when an off leash dog approaches most people they get nervous. dos are not a nervous animal and if they are nervous its usually down to the owner without the owner even realising it. when your dog is on a leash and if you get nervous, it passes down through the lead to your dog, either makin your dog nervous OR think he has to stand up to the other dog to protect you and in turn YOUR dog getting dominant.
tbh i walk my dogs in a field or park off leash bt if i'm on the road i'l have them on a chain leash and muzzles. if i see someone ahead putting a leash on their dogs i'l do the same. i prefer leaving my dogs judge the character of the approaching dog, which they are very good at. especially the staffy. if they are unsure of the dog approaching they pause and wait for me to lead them past. as soon as they pass (without even looking at the other dog) off they go. if the dog is ok they'l have a sniff and carry on. they only thing they dont like is being chased.

it is a pain in the ass when an off leash comes over on the road because pitbull wants to meet the dog. staffy doesnt even accnaowledge any dog when she's on lead. but jus gotta keep on walkin!!

seamus · 15-03-2011 11:48am

RojoMojo wrote: »

By the way, out of curiousity, if my dog was to by chance injure an unleeshed dog while I had him leeshed and or muzzled, would I be liable?

Legally speaking it depends on the incident. Ultimately it would come down to a "who attacked who" argument between you and the owner.

In reality because you have a restricted breed the judge will rule against you in spite of any facts, even if your dog is leashed and muzzled and the other is running wild like a loo-lah.

Your dog is young enough now I would suggest working on his socialisation ASAP. It's especially difficult with an RB because you can't let them off lead, but there are plenty of socialisation classes around, held on closed private property where he can be let off lead to run around and have fun with other dogs. It's much easier for other dogs to "put manners" on yours, so to speak rather than trying to correct him every time you pass another dog on the street. Socialisation classes usually also involve basic training including getting the dog to walk properly.

Although I know it's stressful and you don't have a small dog, I wouldn't avoid passing other dogs on the street. Your dog needs to get used to passing other dogs without reacting. Most people favour distraction techniques - when you see another dog, take a high-value treat out (meat or similar) and get your dog's attention - have him sit and focus attention on you if that helps. Wait until the other dog has passed and then give him the treat and walk on.
If the other dog comes up and starts causing hassle, then you take control of the situation - stand between your dog and the other dog and tell it to "go away". It doesn't understand the words, but if you're stern it will understand the tone and leave. Your dog will understand that you're the one in charge and will be more relaxed when other dogs approach because he knows that you've got his back.

LB6 · 15-03-2011 12:15pm

I'm not nervous of any breed of dog so there is nothing going from me to Flint.
In fact - I would think that modern manners would dictate that the man control his dog and not have him charge across the field at us. Granted he did try call him but to no avail! From his attitude, I felt that as he had to come all the way over after his dog, that he was trying to blame my leased under control dog for his inability to control his! There was nothing at all agressive in my dog, in fact he didn't even notice the JRT until he came running up behind us as we were walking in the other direction. Laziness is all it is - a couple of minutes and none of this would have happened!:cool:

boomerang · 15-03-2011 1:43pm

In direct response to the OP with the Dobie, the most annoying part is when you cross the road to avoid the unleashed dog, and he follows you over! :rolleyes:

Folks, don't ever make the mistake of thinking that because your dog is friendly and sociable with other dogs, you can let them run on ahead to meet whatever other dogs are in the area.

My dog is less reactive when she's off lead. She has no interest in other dogs and does her best to ignore them. On-lead, if a loose dog comes up to us, she's a wriggling, barking dervish. If we are in an isolated area (empty beach in winter, our local woods, etc.) I will let her off, with my eyes on stalks for the sight of another dog. If I see another dog in the distance, I pop the lead back on. A lot of the time the other dog owner cops it and leashes their dog too, but I'm in trouble if they don't and their dog wants to come and investigate us. Then my dog flips her lid and the other dog owner eventually catches up to us to call away their dog and throws us a filthy look, like we shouldn't be there.

**Vai** · 15-03-2011 2:37pm

Actually had this last night, was walking along with my dogs and some braindead woman had her yorkie off-leash and wandering wherever it wanted. My GSD nearly tripped me trying get to the yorkie to control it (natural behaviour for which she was corrected). When I told her the dog should be on a lead she totally blanked me. Amazing!

This was on a busy road btw, in a park is a different story. Anyone who thinks dogs can just wander around like that needs educating. At the very least its inconsiderate to responsible dog owners, even if it is only a little thing like a yorkie.

tiffbunny · 15-03-2011 10:16pm

There are also other issues with walking your dog off-leash. For example, my mother is terrified of dogs, (even perfectly trained, well-behaved ones) because of several dangerous encounters she'd had in the past. Additionally, she can't read doggy body language and so thinks ANY dog running towards her is going to attack. Even when a dog is coming up to politely sniff/greet us, she experiences intense distress because all she sees is a loose animal with the capability to cause her harm.

So there are still human-related issues with walking your dog off-leash, even when there are no other dogs around.

BIG RANT-People that walk their dogs off the leesh

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