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Minister Carey Issues Consent for New RTÉ Services

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24

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    #32
    carrolls
    Registered Users Posts: 1,011 ✭✭✭carrolls


    watty wrote: »
    Even if there is "spare" space it's not free.

    To all intents and purposes it is. There is possibly a minimal hardware overhead in much the same way as there is for UPC if they decided to add an extra two channels to their lineup.
    And there will be spare space on Mux 2 until they get around to putting a commercial package together. According to reports, RTE plan to put RTE 2 HD on Mux 2. What are they going to do with the rest of the space?


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    #33
    The Cush
    Registered Users Posts: 15,511 ✭✭✭✭The Cush


    carrolls wrote: »
    Also who is paying for RTE on Freeview up the North?

    The not-for-profit joint venture company that has to be established by RTÉ and TG4 to apply for the Ofcom licence and run the multiplex. As both organisations are funded from the public purse and licence fee we'll all pay for it.


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    #34
    The Cush
    Registered Users Posts: 15,511 ✭✭✭✭The Cush


    watty wrote: »
    I thought it was €3.5M per channel.

    €3.5M for 51sites per mux per year is €178K per Mux-Site? What does that include? Some sites obviously use about 100x more electricity than others.

    Also recovery of capital expenditure, spare parts, 24 hr x 7 engineers on standby, regular site maintenance etc...

    Attached is the most recent RTÉNL proposed Schedule of Tariffs for DTT from Feb 2008 when the plan was for up to 188 PSB and 44 commercial sites. Nothing more recent than that.


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    #35
    watty
    Registered Users Posts: 32,417 ✭✭✭✭watty


    carrolls wrote: »
    To all intents and purposes it is. There is possibly a minimal hardware overhead in much the same way as there is for UPC if they decided to add an extra two channels to their lineup.
    And there will be spare space on Mux 2 until they get around to putting a commercial package together. According to reports, RTE plan to put RTE 2 HD on Mux 2. What are they going to do with the rest of the space?

    Someone has to pay. Or else TV3 would win in Court.

    You might as well say anyone Blonde can ride on a Bus free as long as it's not full.

    2013 / 2014 isn't far away. All the main channels will be HD.
    If the film channel ever launches, there isn't space for it to be HD or 3e HD if RTE1, RTE2, TG4 and TV3 are all HD.

    When there is more need to roll out Broadband I don't see the difficulty of people who don't want pay TV getting a Dish and full Freesat service instead of wasting scarce DTT spectrum on a Foreign service that's free via satellite. Be more point to launch RTE International in UK, USA, Australia, Canada and mainland Europe Satellite than a paltry two UK Terrestrial channels.


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    #36
    watty
    Registered Users Posts: 32,417 ✭✭✭✭watty


    The Cush wrote: »
    The not-for-profit joint venture company that has to be established by RTÉ and TG4 to apply for the Ofcom licence and run the multiplex. As both organisations are funded from the public purse and licence fee we'll all pay for it.

    Well I hope they reconsider. A total waste of Money. At least it probably won't be till end 2012. RTE wouldn't comment on if it would be ditched if Saorsat is good in Ballycastle.

    We should be getting more than 51 DTT sites here. Not paying for sites in N.I. when we have under provisioned.


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    #37
    The Cush
    Registered Users Posts: 15,511 ✭✭✭✭The Cush


    This from yesterday's press release
    ...
    7. RTÉ Plus: Phase 1 only is approved and for a period of 4 years only until February 2014.
    ...
    6. All the approved services and channels shall be reviewed by RTÉ within 4 years (i.e. no later than February 2014) and a report on these reviews shall be submitted to the Minister by June 2014 at the latest. This review shall, interalia, study the continuing need for these services and channels in light of technology and societal developments and the potential for enhancing the public service value of these services and channels.

    http://www.dcenr.gov.ie/Press+Releases/Minister+Carey+Issues+Consent+for+New+RT%c3%89+Services.htm

    My maths aren't the best but isn't Feb 2011 to Feb 2014 = 3 years?


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    #38
    watty
    Registered Users Posts: 32,417 ✭✭✭✭watty


    A Canadian Economist was pointing out recently how all our problems are poor maths dating to 2002.

    So not surprised.

    2011
    2012
    2013
    2014
    Four Februaries :)


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    #39
    STB
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,178 ✭✭✭STB


    watty wrote: »
    A Canadian Economist was pointing out recently how all our problems are poor maths dating to 2002.
    :)

    Yeah but lets forget about what happened 8 years ago.


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    #40
    The Cush
    Registered Users Posts: 15,511 ✭✭✭✭The Cush


    watty wrote: »
    The Advertising and 2nd Mux limitations are interesting.

    http://www.techtir.ie/blog/watty/saorview-content-approval


    [RANT MODE!!!!]
    Could it be that DCENR thinks RTE should simulcast RTE2 till RTE2 is HD full time? If so they are idiots.

    Been browsing through the Ministerial Decision doc and found this
    RTÉ Two HD Select

    High Definition (HD) channels provide better quality pictures than Standard
    Definition (SD) TV. In promulgating the relevant provisions of the Broadcasting Act
    2009, the Minister was aware that an upgrade to HD was an essential requirement for
    national broadcasters and provided for an additional multiplex to be made available to
    RTÉ to ensure adequate capacity for the upgrade and carriage of the terrestrial TV
    channels in HD- RTÉ One, RTÉ Two, TG4 and, subject to the provisions of section
    130(10), TV3.

    The thinking appears to be that the second mux was provided for HD services so that's where we're going to put RTÉ 2 HD and the other HD services when they launch.


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    #41
    tlaavtech
    Registered Users Posts: 284 ✭✭tlaavtech


    I do like the idea of getting the 2nd MUX up and running sooner rather than later. If it is running by September this year, that is a year and a bit before ASO. Most of the non-tech people in analogue-land will leave it until the last minute to upgrade, so both MUX's will be up and running when they are forced to switch. This should reduce the thousands of calls to RTENL if the 2nd MUX was switched on to after ASO to co-incide with subsequent multiple HD launches.

    I was hoping for an improvement in the quality (resolution/bit-rate) of the other channels the minute Mux2 was switched on, but this is unlikely to happen if Mux2 is reserved for HD only. We will have to wait for the full launch of RTE1HD/TV3HD to leave room on Mux1.

    Slightly OT, but is there sufficient bandwidth in one SaorSat Mux to carry both DTT Muxes?


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    #42
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    tlaavtech wrote: »
    Slightly OT, but is there sufficient bandwidth in one SaorSat Mux to carry both DTT Muxes?

    From what I've read on here it is believed that the TS on Saorsat will be identical to that on DTT so it can be used as a backup feed should the terrestrial microwave link fail. In that case it would still require two separate muxes, though chances are they'd be on the same physical transponder.


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    #43
    carrolls
    Registered Users Posts: 1,011 ✭✭✭carrolls


    watty wrote: »
    Someone has to pay. Or else TV3 would win in Court.

    You might as well say anyone Blonde can ride on a Bus free as long as it's not full.

    TV3 on Saorview and BBC via the MOU on Saorview are two totally different scenarios. If legislation deemed that 2 slots were to be given to BBC 1 and 2 on Saorview in a recipricol arangement with RTE 1, 2 and TG4 on a Northern freeview mux (which was the original MOU plan), then it would have happened without any money changing hands.
    TV3 should have not been allowed to influence the decision.


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    #44
    Elmo
    Registered Users Posts: 23,641 ✭✭✭✭Elmo


    Just to say that McRedmond and Dawson were discussing this on TodayFM.

    This should be merged with Saorview content speculation.

    Usual guff from McRedmond but Dawson really didn't play the right cards.


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    #45
    Elmo
    Registered Users Posts: 23,641 ✭✭✭✭Elmo


    Apogee wrote: »
    Published RTÉNL tariffs:



    http://www.bci.ie/DTT/easy_tv/append6_tech.pdf

    Is that 3.8m for just one channel or one mux?


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    #46
    watty
    Registered Users Posts: 32,417 ✭✭✭✭watty


    Karsini wrote: »
    From what I've read on here it is believed that the TS on Saorsat will be identical to that on DTT so it can be used as a backup feed should the terrestrial microwave link fail. In that case it would still require two separate muxes, though chances are they'd be on the same physical transponder.

    even on Ku you might have 4 or 5 "virtual" transponders (i.e. Carriers) on one physical transponder. No problem at all having two carriers each with a TS that is copy of the DTT mux, and carriers using DVB-S2 modulation instead of DVB-t.

    The Irish Spot has about 500Mbps of Downlink to home Capacity. The DTT Muxes are just under 25Mbps each, so Saorsat uses 10% of the capacity (or 5% if you count uplink from home on Internet service)


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    #47
    The Cush
    Registered Users Posts: 15,511 ✭✭✭✭The Cush


    Regarding the recent posts on BBC down here, this is a recent comment from the then Minister for Communications, Eamon Ryan in an adjournment debate in the Seanad - BBC not interested in providing its channels down here.
    The MOU also provides for the carriage of TG4 on Northern Ireland’s DTT platform and facilitates the possibility of RTE being transmitted over DTT in the North and for the BBC to be carried in the South. While many viewers in Ireland and Northern Ireland watch the other country’s free-to-air TV channels through overspill, perhaps most significantly the MOU allows the possibility of broadcasting RTE on an all-island basis for the first time in the history of the State. While the BBC has not engaged in the process for the delivery of free-to-air BBC services throughout Ireland and has no legislative remit to offer service to the island of Ireland, I am happy to report that both RTE and TG4 are fully engaged in the process we have set out.

    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056153898


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    #48
    The Cush
    Registered Users Posts: 15,511 ✭✭✭✭The Cush


    Elmo wrote: »
    Is that 3.8m for just one channel or one mux?

    Per Mux. See posts #31 & #34 on the previous page.

    Since the new 51 site Saorview/Saorsat plan was approved last July we don't know the up to date cost per mux. The charges quoted in the previous posts mentioned are early 2008.


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    #49
    Elmo
    Registered Users Posts: 23,641 ✭✭✭✭Elmo


    The Cush wrote: »
    Per Mux. See posts #31 & #34 on the previous page.

    Since the new 51 site Saorview/Saorsat plan was approved last July we don't know the up to date cost per mux. The charges quoted in the previous posts mentioned are early 2008.

    So per SD channel around 400,000 - 500,000 which is down from 1.5m that TV3 and TG4 currently pay.


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    #50
    carrolls
    Registered Users Posts: 1,011 ✭✭✭carrolls


    The Cush wrote: »
    While the BBC has not engaged in the process for the delivery of free-to-air BBC services throughout Ireland and has no legislative remit to offer service to the island of Ireland.
    Thats how duplicitous weasels like Ryan have conducted themselves over the last five years. Carefully read the statement. Read between the lines.
    The only reason that the BBC are not engaged in the process of delivery of free-to-air BBC services is because Ryan pulled the plug on the process on Feburary 2010.
    Its called politics. If you cannot see through this rubbish, vote them back in again tomorrow.


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    #51
    Apogee
    Registered Users Posts: 3,780 ✭✭✭Apogee


    The Cush wrote: »
    Regarding the recent posts on BBC down here, this is a recent comment from the then Minister for Communications, Eamon Ryan in an adjournment debate in the Seanad - BBC not interested in providing its channels down here.

    If you believe Eamon Ryan...


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    #52
    watty
    Registered Users Posts: 32,417 ✭✭✭✭watty


    Apogee wrote: »
    If you believe Eamon Ryan...

    not at all.

    But I do mostly believe the BBC. They have not the same Remit for here as RTE has for N.I. Their charter only allows them to provide TV here commercially at a profit. We happen to get all the FTA UK channels free on Satellite and 80% of people have pay Tv. There is no profit in doing payTV here at €3M per mux + additional payTV running costs. Sky already pay them for putting BBC on the Irish EPG.


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    #53
    carrolls
    Registered Users Posts: 1,011 ✭✭✭carrolls


    watty wrote: »
    not at all.

    But I do mostly believe the BBC. They have not the same Remit for here as RTE has for N.I. Their charter only allows them to provide TV here commercially at a profit. We happen to get all the FTA UK channels free on Satellite and 80% of people have pay Tv. There is no profit in doing payTV here at €3M per mux + additional payTV running costs. Sky already pay them for putting BBC on the Irish EPG.
    Yeah, but the BBC never made such a statement, Ryan did.


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    #54
    Apogee
    Registered Users Posts: 3,780 ✭✭✭Apogee


    Charters can be changed. Have the BBC said they are not interested?


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    #55
    warlikedave
    Registered Users Posts: 1,529 ✭✭✭warlikedave


    watty wrote: »
    not at all.

    But I do mostly believe the BBC. They have not the same Remit for here as RTE has for N.I. Their charter only allows them to provide TV here commercially at a profit. We happen to get all the FTA UK channels free on Satellite and 80% of people have pay Tv. There is no profit in doing payTV here at €3M per mux + additional payTV running costs. Sky already pay them for putting BBC on the Irish EPG.

    While we pay sky but the bbc are indeed within thier rights but it would have been nice to have a recriprical service on saorview.


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    #56
    carrolls
    Registered Users Posts: 1,011 ✭✭✭carrolls


    warlikedave wrote: »
    While we pay sky but the bbc are indeed within thier rights but it would have been nice to have a recriprical service on saorview.
    Don't worry. The spanner in the works had nothing to do with the BBC. They didn't change any documents on Feburary 28th last year.


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    #57
    watty
    Registered Users Posts: 32,417 ✭✭✭✭watty


    Apogee wrote: »
    Charters can be changed. Have the BBC said they are not interested?

    Anything is possible. But fewer things are likely. Sure it would be nice if all the main BBC, ITV and C4 was on Irish Terrestrial FTA.


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    #58
    Elmo
    Registered Users Posts: 23,641 ✭✭✭✭Elmo


    TVNI a mix of programming from Norn Iron would suit the MOU. TV3, RTÉ, TG4 and perhaps TVNI would then buy English shows on the open market.

    Are we going to go through this again? So who's going to be the new minister?


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    #59
    The Cush
    Registered Users Posts: 15,511 ✭✭✭✭The Cush


    carrolls wrote: »
    Yeah, but the BBC never made such a statement, Ryan did.

    But the Civil Servants wrote it.


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    #60
    Elmo
    Registered Users Posts: 23,641 ✭✭✭✭Elmo


    The Cush wrote: »
    But the Civil Servants wrote it.

    Feck they'll still be there. :rolleyes:


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    #61
    icdg
    Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 11,541 Mod ✭✭✭✭icdg


    Apogee wrote: »
    Charters can be changed.

    Don't go there. BBC Charter renewal is a HUGE can of worms that crops of every ten years or so and results in bitterly acrimonious political debate. The next one isn't due till 2017. If this was to be opened eariler, you can be sure the Tories (particularly the right wing element of the party) would want to reopen whole sets of the BBC's governance...

    As to RTÉ's proposals. I'm rather concerned at the lack of approval for RTÉ Plus Phase II (aka RTÉ Three) though I understand after reading the decision that this was after advice from the BAI that they were unable to assess the impact of RTÉ Plus Phase II due to insufficent information. The main concern seems to be that RTÉ will use it to show US imports in peak time and hit TV3 and 3e. It doesn't seem to preclude that this channel may be approved in the future and indeed RTÉ may well come back with revised proposals. I'd be concerned if it weren't to be approved at all, because (a) capacity on Saorview in RTÉjr's closed hours will be wasted and (b) this channel was where RTÉ had intended to provide what other broadcasters use the red button for - rights that they don't have the room for on their linear channels. Currently RTÉ uses RTÉ.ie for this but it would be a shame given the capacity on Saorview if they couldn't provide these. I think the short term option should be to use RTÉ News Now for this type of programming and in the long term submit a revised RTÉ Three proposal with less emphasis on the imported programming and more emphasis on use of RTÉ's indigenous programming.

    As for TV3...well they would have their choice of seeing (a) RTÉ closed completely or (b) reduced to news, current affairs, educational, and childrens programmes. I don't think anything less would satisfy them and TBH if RTÉ was reduced to (b) I think a lot of people would start questioning paying their licence fee, as RTÉ's audiences would be very, very low. Look at PBS or the Australian ABC for the type of service I mean.


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