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Game-Play changes you'd like to see

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  • 09-02-2011 9:29pm
    #1
    Registered Users Posts: 429 ✭✭


    So i was thinking about what sort of game-play changes i'd like to see in American Football and thought i'd post them up just for discussion.

    I know there are folks that are simply anathema to change but infact american football has evolved and changed hugely over the years.
    For example prior to 1906 there was no forward pass.

    Anyway one place that could use improvement is the "Point-After".
    This has become a rather uneventful affair.
    It seems quite rare for a miss, or even a blocked attempt.
    So why not do it like rugby, where the attempt must be taken perpendicular to where the ball crossed the line?
    I'm sure there would be a lot of misses, and also a lot of teams foregoing the usual and instead go for the 2 point conversion.
    It would also put more pressure and more context to those touchdowns that barely hit the pilon.

    The other place i'd like to see amended is the Drop Kick Goal.
    What's that you say?
    Yep, the Drop Kick Goal is still in the rules, but it's never utilised cause it's only worth 3pts.
    So a team is never really in a position to attempt such because if they are in the area and it's 1st thru 3rd down, they'll attempt a TD instead.
    And if they want 3pts, then it's better to wait til 4th down and line up properly in a manner of a set-piece.
    But, what if the Drop Kick Goal was worth 4pts, or even 5pts?


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Comments

  • Registered Users Posts: 1,216 ✭✭✭Danger_dave1


    Your idea's intrigue me . Do you have a newsletter i can subscribe to ?


  • Registered Users Posts: 882 ✭✭✭darragh16


    jman0war wrote: »
    Anyway one place that could use improvement is the "Point-After".
    This has become a rather uneventful affair.
    It seems quite rare for a miss, or even a blocked attempt.
    So why not do it like rugby, where the attempt must be taken perpendicular to where the ball crossed the line?
    I'm sure there would be a lot of misses, and also a lot of teams foregoing the usual and instead go for the 2 point conversion.

    Could move it back to the five yard line or something from either hash mark instead of up the middle?


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,500 ✭✭✭ReacherCreature


    Anyway one place that could use improvement is the "Point-After".
    This has become a rather uneventful affair.
    It seems quite rare for a miss, or even a blocked attempt.
    So why not do it like rugby, where the attempt must be taken perpendicular to where the ball crossed the line?
    I'm sure there would be a lot of misses, and also a lot of teams foregoing the usual and instead go for the 2 point conversion.
    It would also put more pressure and more context to those touchdowns that barely hit the pilon.

    'If it ain't broke...'. I don't agree with this change. It takes considerable cool to constantly nail those extra-points. If you're a good kicker, the touchdown will always be seven points rather than six. Can prove to be game changers.
    The other place i'd like to see amended is the Drop Kick Goal.
    What's that you say?
    Yep, the Drop Kick Goal is still in the rules, but it's never utilised cause it's only worth 3pts.

    Don't like it. Drop kick can go awry; kickers are used to having someone place the ball down and then kicking it. Kicks go awry too but lets stick at it.

    Seems like you're being influenced by Rugby too much. People would want to get over it: they're different sports.

    I was expecting stuff like time limits, faster gameplay, restricting rules etc.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 19,986 ✭✭✭✭mikemac


    At the moment you get two challenges and if you win both you get a third

    But if you win all your challenges I think you should keep getting challenges.

    I'm not sure how you'd structure exactly but it could be looked at.

    And I don't mean give coaches unlimited challenges but if you win all of yours why stop at three?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 16,658 ✭✭✭✭Peyton Manning


    Dont like the rule that if you get one challenge right and another one wrong, you have none left. It should be if you get one right, you still get another one regardless of what happens your second one. That's really all I'd change off the top of my head. Oh and also if a player goes down injured after the 2 minute warning, he should not be allowed back for the remainder of the half unless a timeout is called. Would stop players going down just to stop the clock.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 4,500 ✭✭✭ReacherCreature


    While I'm here. I don't like the overtime rules. Just don't agree with going 20-40 yards and then kicking it. Rubbish.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 13,224 ✭✭✭✭SantryRed


    While I'm here. I don't like the overtime rules. Just don't agree with going 20-40 yards and then kicking it. Rubbish.

    They've been changed now. If the team who first receives the ball scores a FG, the other team has one possession to either score a FG or a TD. If they score a FG and the scores are tied again, then it is next score wins.


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,500 ✭✭✭ReacherCreature


    SantryRed wrote: »
    They've been changed now. If the team who first receives the ball scores a FG, the other team has one possession to either score a FG or a TD. If they score a FG and the scores are tied again, then it is next score wins.

    Christ above I'm slow tonight. Completely forgot about anything about this. Cheers SantryRed.


  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 21,653 Mod ✭✭✭✭helimachoptor


    SantryRed wrote: »
    They've been changed now. If the team who first receives the ball scores a FG, the other team has one possession to either score a FG or a TD. If they score a FG and the scores are tied again, then it is next score wins.

    Il don't think that's reflected in madden 11


  • Registered Users Posts: 17,065 ✭✭✭✭Neil3030


    Double points if a defensive lineman intercepts the ball and has to run it in from more than 10 yards out.

    Triple points if he then dances.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 487 ✭✭bobby wade


    SantryRed wrote: »
    They've been changed now. If the team who first receives the ball scores a FG, the other team has one possession to either score a FG or a TD. If they score a FG and the scores are tied again, then it is next score wins.


    It's a worse rule now. Remember that if the opening kickoff is returned for a TD it's game over


  • Registered Users Posts: 429 ✭✭jman0war


    'If it ain't broke...'. I don't agree with this change. It takes considerable cool to constantly nail those extra-points. If you're a good kicker, the touchdown will always be seven points rather than six. Can prove to be game changers.
    What is the failure rate of the point-after?
    Less than 1% i'll bet.
    Which means it is so automatic that there is little need to perform it.
    I believe most people think in terms that a TD = 7pts, because the point-after is considered a given.
    It strikes me as a waste of time in a spectator sport, to score a TD, quick break for ads, then gather 2 Special Teams units on the field for something so malign as a "point-after" that takes about 2 seconds of play, then cut to 7 mins of ads.
    Sorry but let's make it more challenging.
    I want the PA to count.

    I wonder if there were a time where a defender could get a "leg up" to attempt a block, like they do in rugby on the throw-ins?
    I imagine there've been plenty of tweaks to the rules governing Point After through the last century.
    Don't like it. Drop kick can go awry; kickers are used to having someone place the ball down and then kicking it. Kicks go awry too but lets stick at it.
    Seems like you're being influenced by Rugby too much. People would want to get over it: they're different sports.
    American football comes from rugby.
    But i agree i don't think the Drop Kick will even be utilised, so should be dropped from rules probably.


  • Moderators, Computer Games Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 16,112 Mod ✭✭✭✭adrian522


    SantryRed wrote: »
    They've been changed now. If the team who first receives the ball scores a FG, the other team has one possession to either score a FG or a TD. If they score a FG and the scores are tied again, then it is next score wins.

    Thats only for the post season though as far as I know. Regular season was the old rules.


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,500 ✭✭✭ReacherCreature


    jman0war wrote: »
    What is the failure rate of the point-after?
    Less than 1% i'll bet.
    Which means it is so automatic that there is little need to perform it.

    It's one of those unspoken things in football. Like when you've a kicker for three years who has a say, 90% success rating on making points/Field goals, when it comes to a kick, you expect him to make it. All hell breaks lose when he misses it. If you're talking failure rates at less than 1% then why not leave it? If the failure rates were higher then there'd be concern. I understand you want the challenge.
    I wonder if there were a time where a defender could get a "leg up" to attempt a block, like they do in rugby on the throw-ins?
    I imagine there've been plenty of tweaks to the rules governing Point After through the last century.

    Again, the Rugby adaptations? It's a skill enough alone to block extra points/field goals. No need for "leg up"s. I think teams need to make a more of an effort in blocking.
    American football comes from rugby.

    Doesn't mean it needs to be still heavily influenced.
    But i agree i don't think the Drop Kick will even be utilised, so should be dropped from rules probably.

    Doug Flutie, QB for the Patriots kicked one some years back. It's there for the taking but no team uses it.


  • Registered Users Posts: 429 ✭✭jman0war


    It's one of those unspoken things in football. Like when you've a kicker for three years who has a say, 90% success rating on making points/Field goals, when it comes to a kick, you expect him to make it. All hell breaks lose when he misses it. If you're talking failure rates at less than 1% then why not leave it?
    Because i want the action. I want the misses, the blocked attempts.
    I want more opting for the 2 point conversion.
    Currenlty the PAT is like kids stuff.
    They don't get blocked because it's too difficult to block when it's just a short chip shot, taken directly infront of the uprights.

    It's a bit like when they changed the goalposts in football (soccer).
    They first made the poles round, to get more unpredictable deflections.
    Later they widened the goals because the goal keepers were too successful at defending everything. They wanted more action, more scores etc. Naturally there were plenty of nayers. But you know what?
    I think they need to go wider still.
    Again, the Rugby adaptations? It's a skill enough alone to block extra points/field goals. No need for "leg up"s. I think teams need to make a more of an effort in blocking.
    I think they don't block them because it's virtually impossible, unless the kicker really balls it up and gets no height to his chip shot.


  • Registered Users Posts: 7,716 ✭✭✭Mr. Guappa


    The fact that a PAT is almost a given adds to the tension in some tight games IMO.. i.e. do we take the PAT or go for a 2-point conversion? Also, if you make a PAT harder then you are dissuading teams from going for it on 4th & goal as the rewards are potentially less.

    I'd agree that the coaches challenges should be looked at. If you are successful on either of your 1st 2 then you get a 3rd.

    Some of the penalties for excessive celebration and using the ball as a prop are ridiculous too.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,415 ✭✭✭FreeOSCAR


    Helmet to Helmet tackles on defenseless players.

    Ejection from the game instead of fine's.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 19,986 ✭✭✭✭mikemac


    Mr. Guappa wrote: »
    Some of the penalties for excessive celebration and using the ball as a prop are ridiculous too.

    In the Superbowl a Packers player was penalised for going to the ground as in having two knees on the ground.
    It may be the only Superbowl he plays in his life!

    Celebrations rules have their place.
    I don't agree with the baiting that DeSean Jackson gives out

    But at the same time it can be relaxed somewhat


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 19,341 ✭✭✭✭Chucky the tree


    Wouldn't mind if coaches could challenge certain penalties like pass interference. Will never happen though.


  • Registered Users Posts: 429 ✭✭jman0war


    I like idea of retaining # of challenges after being successful with one, but there is a little room for abuse here.
    A coach could get rather challenge-happy (succeeding everytime), resulting in stopping the game a lot and also making the refs look like idiots.
    I'm sure there are reputations at stake.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 16,658 ✭✭✭✭Peyton Manning


    If they get it right every time, then fair play to them, but that rarely happens. If I was employed head coach of a team tomorrow (one can but dream) then one of the first things I would do is hire Mike Perreira or someone like him simply to look at instant replays and tell me if I should challenge them. Get an expert in, your success ratio would skyrocket.


  • Registered Users Posts: 429 ✭✭jman0war


    Tom_Brady wrote: »
    If they get it right every time, then fair play to them, but that rarely happens. If I was employed head coach of a team tomorrow (one can but dream) then one of the first things I would do is hire Mike Perreira or someone like him simply to look at instant replays and tell me if I should challenge them. Get an expert in, your success ratio would skyrocket.
    Yeah i suppose.
    Puts the pressure on the refs.
    But then they might be hesitant to actually make the call in the first place.

    Anyway, no team would be able to pay your man's wages just to scrutinize instant replay.

    I wouldn't review PI, since that was done in the past and it proved highly controversial.

    But, what about the whole PI penalty -> automatic 1st down and ball is placed at the spot of the foul? Seems a little harsh when sometimes it's fairly incidental contact on a 50/50 ball.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 6,067 ✭✭✭tallaghtoutlaws


    Now I am back I thought I would wade in here :D

    jman0war good thread by the way kudos.

    Just a couple of things on what changes you would like to see though:

    PAT: 4 of the 11 misses this season cost the respective team their game and were crucial. Although very low the PAT is the easy option for points after. Teams do have a right to make life difficult for themselves if they so wish choose by going for 2 which we all know is a gamble.

    But as for changing the 1 point and angles and all of that. No thanks. You are asking kickers to change their method not just in the NFL but all the way back through college and high school. You change the Pros you would have to change High school and College games also where Kicking is already a lot harder than the Pros. HS and College football have high amount of PAT misses every year where they are truly not a given. Pros make it look a lot easier than it really is.

    To kick a PAT you need a strong solid line, A long snapper is literally inch perfect every time, a holder you know is going to bring that ball in and down and set it up on time and a kicker who can make the kick while under pressure.

    I just think as easy as it sounds to change it, you are asking a lot more than you think.

    Drop Goals: Have you ever tried to drop kick an American Football? Not as easy as a Rugby ball thats for sure. American Footballs are lighter and smaller than Rugby balls and dont have that flat nose so when it hits the ground the point will make it go away from your foot almost every time. I have Rugby players in UCD on my AF team and they have tried and failed trying to drop kick a ball when they do it regularly in Rugby. Now add the pressure to the ball in motion. Bad idea.


    Some things I would like to see changed:

    The penalty for PI as someone pointed out. In the NFL the penalty is enforced from the point of contact of the PI. In the NCAA its from the previous spot. I think I would rather see the NCAA ruling of it in the Pros.

    Also PI itself. Far too much lenience given to Offensive players. Needs to change.

    The umpire put back in the spot he was before they move him behind the Defense. So many more holding calls missed this past NFL season.

    Few more may come to mind.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 6,067 ✭✭✭tallaghtoutlaws


    FreeOSCAR wrote: »
    Helmet to Helmet tackles on defenseless players.

    Ejection from the game instead of fine's.

    100% agree with this. But I would also like to see the refs and NFL get more control on Head to Head overall. Some players are on the fringe of dangerous hits on ball carriers. The lead with their heads or drop them into players. So easy to spot. They need to find a line between accident and leading with.

    I cringe every time I see this:



    The NFL has a lot to blame for sh1t like this. Obviously the coaches are also carrying a lot of the blame especially if this happens a lot on their practice and game field. But this is Pee Wee football and all you have to do is you tube pee wee and look at some of the hits. Kids are impressionable and what they think is the norm from watching the NCAA and Pros they will do themselves.


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,500 ✭✭✭ReacherCreature


    That video above is sickening. The coaches for these kids are setting a terrible example.


  • Registered Users Posts: 429 ✭✭jman0war


    Was reading an article about nfl and concussions.
    And they said that it's not only the big hits that matter.
    Neurosurgeon was quoted as saying that all the little blows add-up over time.

    Article also made the point that in Aussie Rules Football, which is another rough contact sport, the concussion rate is way way lower, even tho they wear no pads whatsoever.

    You can see in that video that the kids are "top heavy", it's true with NFL as well. Thus they lean their upper body and head into hits. You can see the difference in aussie rules, they shoulder-in and look to be more upright, not leading with their head.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TiGoqObb0YQ


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 6,067 ✭✭✭tallaghtoutlaws


    jman0war wrote: »
    Was reading an article about nfl and concussions.
    And they said that it's not only the big hits that matter.
    Neurosurgeon was quoted as saying that all the little blows add-up over time.

    Article also made the point that in Aussie Rules Football, which is another rough contact sport, the concussion rate is way way lower, even tho they wear no pads whatsoever.

    You can see in that video that the kids are "top heavy", it's true with NFL as well. Thus they lean their upper body and head into hits. You can see the difference in aussie rules, they shoulder-in and look to be more upright, not leading with their head.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TiGoqObb0YQ

    I do agree that American Footballers are top heavy but comparing to the AFL is not a fair comparison.

    If you tried using your shoulder to tackle a ball carrier in AF a high % of the time you wont bring them down or stop them in their tracks the majority of the time. The ball carrier who will also have his shoulder dropped will counter act you coming at him with your shoulder.

    Shoulder blocks are more a form of blocking someone or bringing them down when they dont see you coming or have not prepared to take the hit i.e a WR catching the football or making a play on the ball. Or hitting the ball carrier side on where he is blindsided. Or laying a shoulder on someone to take him out of a play to protect you ball carrier.

    But I will say the AFL are starting to take note of increasing concussions and shoulder injuries over the last decade. Throwing your shoulder into someone without pads is not as safe as people make out and can cause long term damage. As athletes get faster and stronger as the years go by it will eventually become a major concern like any contact sport.

    http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-news/shoulder-injuries-speed-of-game-afl-looks-for-link-20100420-srq0.html

    In AF The only way to cut out long term damage is to remove the pads and it will cut down on how fast and how high they will tackle each other. But lets be real it will never happen as AF is what it is. The best they can do is find ways to teach better technique and methods to slow it down and give these athletes a better future.

    Guys like James Harrison who is always in the media launches himself in head first a lot and if he were a high school or college player now growing up the coaches of said team should be correcting his technique to stop going in head first. Thus minimising to an extent the amount of contact with ones head.

    AF is most likely up there at the top of the list when it comes to health issues in the long term. But Rugby and Aussie Rules and Rugby League are all looking into the increasing concerns over player safety. As I said as Athletes get bigger and faster these injuries will increase across the board regardless of the method used.


  • Registered Users Posts: 876 ✭✭✭DonkeyPokerTour


    The penalty for PI as someone pointed out. In the NFL the penalty is enforced from the point of contact of the PI. In the NCAA its from the previous spot. I think I would rather see the NCAA ruling of it in the Pros.

    The problem with the NCAA ruling is that it makes it far too easy to stop the long bomb. Say its first and 10 on the defensive 40yard line. Most pro quarterbacks can throw the ball all the way or almost all the way to the end zone from there. So say the corner gets beat on a deep route to the end zone well he can give up the touchdown or he can just do anything he likes to prevent the player from catching the ball and his punishment will only be 15yards moving the ball to the attacking 45yard line. Its just not harsh enough. Where as the current rule would mean its first and goal at the 1 a much harsher penalty. Which such flagrant rule breaking deserves.


  • Registered Users Posts: 429 ✭✭jman0war


    Maybe the answer then is a sliding scale of PI penalty.
    10-15 yrds or to the spot of the foul. Depending upon which is greater and nature of the foul.

    Perhaps bring in instant replay to assess the degree of the foul only, and maybe make that challenge-able.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 876 ✭✭✭DonkeyPokerTour


    jman0war wrote: »
    Maybe the answer then is a sliding scale of PI penalty.
    10-15 yrds or to the spot of the foul. Depending upon which is greater and nature of the foul.

    Perhaps bring in instant replay to assess the degree of the foul only, and maybe make that challenge-able.

    The problem then is consistency. With a strict 15yards or Spot of the foul definition if its pass interference, its pass interference. Trying to determine intent is a disaster and would cause more problems for the referees. As for making it challengeable that would be a pretty pointless as referees are told to not flag pass interference unless there sure it is pass interference so it would 99.99% of the time be "the ruling on the field is confirmed"


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