To sit down or stand up?

C3PO · 02-02-2011 10:10am #1

I've recently started doing a fair bit on the road but have been mountain biking for the last few years. I think it would be fair to say that I'm reasonably fit.
When climbing I find I'm much more comfortable (and efficient?) sitting in the saddle, picking a fairly low gear and spinning up the hill. A lot of the guys I ride with spend much of a climb out of the saddle, in a bigger gear and grinding away. I've tried to do this but find it quickly exhausting (except for short bursts)! Having said that I tend to climb at least as fast as others of similar fitness.
Is it worth learning how to climb out of the saddle or should I just persevere with what I'm doing?

Raam · 02-02-2011 10:28am

It is certainly useful to be comfortable with both.

On longer hills I would sit all the way, but for shorter ones where you need to try and keep up with other people then being able to put the power down out of the saddle is useful. It's either that or have them wait for or drop you, depending on how nice they are

English Bob · 02-02-2011 10:43am

Def would agree it's important to be comfortable with both sitting & standing when climbing.
When out training or on a club spin I'd tend to stay sat for the most part, when racing I'd def need to push a bigger gear & stand to keep in contact with the pack.

enas · 02-02-2011 11:21am

RPL1 wrote: »

When climbing I find I'm much more comfortable (and efficient?) sitting in the saddle, picking a fairly low gear and spinning up the hill.

This is the correct technique to tackle hills, except for only short bursts, for example for short steep hills or in a racing context. To be honest, I rarely spend any time out of the saddle.

You'll find that the best way to tackle hills is actually to take them gently (smooth and consistent pedalling is also essential), saving your energy for the end of the hill and the flat or downhill that follows. It might seem counterintuitive, but you will actually improve your average speed by staying fresh and building gradually speed towards the end, sprinting only at the end of the hill, so as to start the flat/downhill that follows at a fair speed and make the most of it the soonest possible, instead of feeling exhausted and just freewheel in order to rest after the hill. You get a tiny decrease in the speed during the hill but you manage to build a much higher speed as soon as the hill finishes.

Generally speaking, putting a lot of effort in flat/downhill sections is much more rewarding in terms of speed than on hills. So I wouldn't mind staying behind your mates only to fly past them when they're wrecked.

cormpat · 02-02-2011 11:30am

Also in a race situation or club ride, if you know the route & you know there's a climb approaching move to the front of the bunch & you can ease up a little on the climb & let the other riders overtake you & by the time you finish the climb you will be towards the back, but not dropped.

seamus · 02-02-2011 11:33am

Getting up out of the saddle on climbs is a matter of timing and experience. You could find yourself pushing up a short climb, only to turn the corner and it keeps on going up, but you're left with burning thighs and a higher heart rate, struggling to keep pace. The guy who maintained a steady pace in the saddle will annihilate you.

So unless you know the road well enough to know that you have some respite after "sprinting" up the hill, you're always better off in the saddle.

There are also occasions where getting up out of the saddle doesn't have to involve any additional effort and it's good for stretching your legs and relieving pressure on your ass during a particularly long climb.

I hear that interval training is pretty much the best/only way to improve your sprinting performance and allow you to stand up through a climb without dying at the end.

iregk · 02-02-2011 1:52pm

As Stephen Roche said: "never stand when you can sit and never sit when you can lie down"

LeoD · 02-02-2011 2:15pm

This is helpful

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HRFNKhNhhJQ

doozerie · 02-02-2011 2:22pm

I laugh at convention so I sit up on climbs and stand down on descents.

thebouldwhacker · 02-02-2011 3:16pm

Some people are grinders, some are spinners. There was a great thread about this a while back and (I think) the consensus was if you prefer to sit and spin then do it. I used be a grinder but started to pay attention to my cycling style and have converted to spinning, if on a long climb or if a burst of pace is needed I get outa the saddle.
If out for spins its good to work on both but mind those knees while grinding!!
tbh its a bit like going to the toilet, you just know what is right! (worst metaphor ever:rolleyes:?)

ryan_sherlock · 02-02-2011 5:55pm

You need to be able to do everything. If it is a long tempo climb, I would usually sit and spin. If steep, or attacking, I would be standing (and spinning, unless really steep). The lighter you are (or the more natural climber) the more time you will spend standing... Look at the GTs, the top guys (the light GC guys) actually stand a lot.

In races, you tend to hit the climbs full gas, and then ease off for the middle bit with a short sprint over the top. That is important to get used to doing too.

cantalach · 02-02-2011 8:50pm

thebouldwhacker wrote: »

tbh its a bit like going to the toilet, you just know what is right! (worst metaphor ever:rolleyes:?)

Yeah, some days you feel like standing and spinning and others you just wanna sit and grind that bad boy out...

blorg · 03-02-2011 9:13am

enas wrote: »

Generally speaking, putting a lot of effort in flat/downhill sections is much more rewarding in terms of speed than on hills.

This is incorrect. Due to air resistance, which increases by the square of velocity, you get more from your application of power on an upward slope than you will on the flat or downhill. It pays to work harder on the hills.

I don't disagree that spinning is more efficient. You need to be able to both in a racing context to do whatever it takes to stay with the bunch but outside of that you could spin seated 100% of the time and stand only to relieve pressure.

omri · 03-02-2011 10:37am

LeoD wrote: »

This is helpful

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HRFNKhNhhJQ

is this bloke using compact or normal crankset ?

Lumen · 03-02-2011 10:56am

blorg wrote: »

This is incorrect. Due to air resistance, which increases by the square of velocity, you get more from your application of power on an upward slope than you will on the flat or downhill. It pays to work harder on the hills.

On the other hand, pedalling effort at high speed feels nicer than equivalent efforts at low speed due to reductions in crank kinematic variability from the larger inertial load, so whilst it may be energetically less efficient it is more satisfying.

This is (IMO) part of the reason that pedalling hard with a tailwind feels nicer on the legs than pedalling hard into a headwind.

cantalach · 03-02-2011 11:59am

Lumen wrote: »

On the other hand, pedalling effort at high speed feels nicer than equivalent efforts at low speed due to reductions in crank kinematic variability from the larger inertial load, so whilst it may be energetically less efficient it is more satisfying.

This is (IMO) part of the reason that pedalling hard with a tailwind feels nicer on the legs than pedalling hard into a headwind.

And there was I thinking it was just a psychological effect, i.e. that the higher speed makes it feel like you're making more progress - that you're a better cyclist.

Lumen · 03-02-2011 12:08pm

cantalach wrote: »

And there was I thinking it was just a psychological effect, i.e. that the higher speed makes it feel like you're making more progress - that you're a better cyclist.

That's another part. But I'm convinced that pedalling platform stability makes a subjective difference to the experience. Even when I'm riding with a target on the power meter and I don't care how fast I'm going, riding faster feels nicer on my legs at the same cadence and power.

cantalach · 03-02-2011 12:08pm

omri wrote: »

is this bloke using compact or normal crankset ?

Looks like a traditional 53/39 to me. It might be one of those rarer 50/36 compacts but if I had to bet I'd say the former.

enas · 03-02-2011 12:20pm

Lumen wrote: »

On the other hand, pedalling effort at high speed feels nicer than equivalent efforts at low speed due to reductions in crank kinematic variability from the larger inertial load, so whilst it may be energetically less efficient it is more satisfying.

I'm not sure about the explanation, but I agree with your conclusion, thanks for clarifying my point

Morrisseeee · 03-02-2011 12:28pm

If you climb 'out-of-the-saddle' on a long climb, then you are a dope(r)

/.......grabs coat & runs to da hills

velo.2010 · 03-02-2011 1:59pm

seamus wrote: »

Getting up out of the saddle on climbs is a matter of timing and experience. You could find yourself pushing up a short climb, only to turn the corner and it keeps on going up, but you're left with burning thighs and a higher heart rate, struggling to keep pace. The guy who maintained a steady pace in the saddle will annihilate you.

So unless you know the road well enough to know that you have some respite after "sprinting" up the hill, you're always better off in the saddle.

Seamus talks some sense. I had done little on a road bike(some Turbo) and mostly used an MTB to tackle some hills and get fit. Thinking I was a good climber I gave it some effort up the hitherto unknown Wicklow Gap from Laragh only to burn out and be passed and left by a couple of guys who've posted above.

Its a mistake I haven't made again! As for personal style I seem to be able to stay out of the saddle for quite a bit and not suffer too much. I'm light, which is handy, and getting out and doing the club spins has helped greatly.

Remember though, we're only talking about the Wicklow mountains-the continental climbs offer a completely different challenge.

seve65 · 03-02-2011 2:19pm

cantalach wrote: »

Looks like a traditional 53/39 to me. It might be one of those rarer 50/36 compacts but if I had to bet I'd say the former.

On one of his DVDs he say he uses a small chainring of 36 (so I expect 50-36), and 12-25 on the back.

Lumen · 03-02-2011 2:34pm

FWIW, I read somewhere that standard double FSA cranksets have mixed BCD, so can support 53-36.

Was it on an etape thread? Not sure.

I haven't checked this out.

seve65 · 03-02-2011 2:36pm

sitting is definitely more efficient
standing gives and tends to use more power even if you try not to
standing uses different muscles so should help to mix and match
sitting on the front and the back of the saddle also taxes the muscles slightly differently
changing your foot angle on the down stroke (if you can easily) either side of the horizontal can also use different muscles [not sure how well this actually works]

I have started to enjoy standing recently, past few Fridays its been sunny and the late afternoon sunshine has been casting shadows on the hedges, so I have been guilty of watching the shadow and the scenery as I put in some acceleration. The climb below, near Blarney, has been the start for hedge watching these past few fridays.

To sit down or stand up?

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