Another Mortgage Negative equity query.

3DataModem wrote: »

Wait and see what rates they offer... then try and negotiate. Little else you can do.

Is it something they negotiate with? Also, would you have any idea on how I should negotiate i.e. things that would get them to give me a better deal?

Thanks for the replies guys. Unfortunately not on Tracker (Checked the documents). All they'll do is either 4.65 Variable or 5.25 fixed for 2 years:(:mad: The lady on the phone said that the fixed was the best bet

I really can't see how this carry on can be justified. Surely our government needs (or needed to when negotiating the bailout) to do something to stop these banks taking the piss out of those who not only are deep in the negative equity trap, but also trapped with the lender! The government are taxing us harder(and will continue to do so) and the banks are upping the rates substantially. Its really not on. All of this while the ECB base rate is actually lower now than when we got our mortgage. This is not about getting bailed out or a NAMA for the little guy, but FFS, do something to protect us from this profiteering! Its hard enough at the moment. Silly me, when I took out the mortgage I thought the worst that could happen is that you loose your home (Its plastered all over the forms and statements afterall). I never thought that you'd remain in debt to the bank for the negative equity shortfall. Not that I expect to lose work (you never know though), but it does add the anxiety about if the worst DOES happen.

Anyway, thanks again for your input guys.

dotsman wrote: »

Yes, it is unfortunate that you have suffered because of the recession, but so too have many people.

:rolleyes: I hate this type of post. It implies that I don't consider the above. Believe me, I realise there are many, many people affected, and affected alot more than me. However, I'm specifying an issue relating to my circumstance here, so I should not have to put caveats in that I realise others are suffering etc. Its also easy to say something like, 'You're sufering because of the recession', as if that makes one go 'oh right, its the recession. fair enough so.'

It's got nothing to do with being "into economics". You entered into what I assume to be, by far, the largest financial investment in your life and you didn't try to understand, at least, the basics?

I certainly accept my mistakes, and will learn by it, but that does not remove anything from the point. It seems that there are alot of people foaming at the mouth to point out such things. 'Its your fault' etc. There is not a day that goes by that I don't hate the fact that I did not know what I should have. What can I say, I thought I knew.

The entire purpose of paying for a solicitor is to have them explain everything to you and answer any questions.

No its not. The solicitor is paid because the system insists on it. Now, people should use them for more than this (Hindsight is great isn't it), but no-one I know had much contact with their solicitor from a consultancy perspective in these things. They used them because they were told, 'These guys do all the official stuff'. Again, you live and learn.

But the ECB rate, unfortunately, has noting to do with how much the banks are paying for the money they lent to you. Even at 5%, it is likely they are still making a loss on your loan.

Again, you accuse "the banks" of "abusing" you.

Because they are. A new customer gets a lower rate. Bank of Ireland new customers get 3% rates etc. Yet, they know that we are trapped, so they take the piss. No competition.

You admit you didn't know the basics at the time of getting a mortgage.

I knew a certain amount, but unfortunately not a very important part. I knew about things like 'Jingle mail', which had me assume that this was how it worked. I did not realise it was not a general thing. It sounds reasonable, so because I thought I knew, I didn't think I needed to ask. Its a bit like finding your keys, then continuing to look for them. If you already found them, you don't keep looking.

I would implore you to at least make up for lost time and find out now.

I have absolutely no interest in the finance sector, like most people I would think. Anything that relates to me and my family though, I'll certainly be leaving no stone unturned going forward.

Again though, I don't need advice such as yours, or indeed your opinions on how its my fault etc. I have made my mistakes, I accept them. However, there was a very shady system at play, and some serious malpractice. I am not looking back though, but rather looking forward and saying that there should be some ethics relating to Joe public. Not bailouts etc, but a bit of slack to be shown.

dotsman wrote: »

I merely meant that many people, myself included, are in a similar boat as you. However, those of us who are aware of what happened in this country and within the banking sector are not going around accusing the banks of abusing us or believing there is some conspiracy against us.

Never mentioned conspiracy. I mentioned an abuse of a commercial position from an institution that could have gone to the wall but for the taxpayer, and my frustration at the fact that our government did not or has not put in place some ethical solution for those of us that have fallen victim to gross negligence, malpractice and yes, our personal bad decisions. No point in straw manning me.

But the reason the system (ie law) insists on it is so you have someone to explain what's happening to you. I don't know about the people you know, but from my personal experience, despite being very familiar with both contracts and lending laws & concepts, I went through my contracts with my solicitor line by line and questioned her on everything. After all, if I'm paying someone a large sum o money, I'm going to make use of them.

Bully for you but thats why I asked a specific question at the start of this thread and tried to deter people like you Captain Hindsighting the thread:

It's the same with most businesses, customers are enticed with special offers etc. As an "existing customer" of AIB, I have half my mortgage on a tracker @ 1.75% and the other half fixed @ 3.25%. In short, they are losing a lot of money on me. If you want to use the term "abuse", then it is I who is abusing them.

The 'abuse' I refer to, is that in these 'unprecedented economical times' as our politicians etc like to say, being cold and legalistic is just not good enough. If you wish to be, then so be it. There are many like you, and I don't really want to hear it as I have the power of hindsight myself already.

I'm looking forward now, and would like to see something done to protect people like myself from being completely screwed. If you couldn't care less, and would rather stick to the cold legalistic approach, then thats your prerogative. I disagree with such a stance under our countries present circumstance and 'unprecedented' goings on.

How did you think that "jingle mail" was a concept here?

Does it matter? The point was, that I unfortunately assumed that this is how such a thing worked.

How does it sound reasonable?

Well, take my circumstance. If our income stops and doesn't start again, we can't pay the mortgage, then we get evicted and the bank sells our house. It sounds reasonable, that any shortfall shouldn't hang like a noose around the necks of a family who already have had to lose their jobs, home etc. It makes sense that such people should not be driven into the ground further. It makes sense that all the fiscal checks, home value checks etc that a bank do is to protect THEIR risk as well as yours.

And therein lies the problem. You don't want to know what's going on, but happy to falsely believe you are being "abused"?

No. I drive a car everyday, but I don't have a desire to deconstruct the combustion engine. However, I know how to change tyres etc. Similarly, I find number crunching a tedious endeavour, though I budget, do tax returns etc. You'll find that most people operate in similar ways. We as people, have faith in others on a regular basis. We have faith that our car was made well, and drive it at high speeds. If someones engine blows on the motorway, we don't wag our heads and say that they should have known that the little rattle in the engine was a dangerous fault.

So again, I accept my part in this, and all of our personal responsibilities in this. However, that does not relieve the responsibilities of other parties in this financial mess. Namely, the banks and the government.

And yo uare right, there are a lot of people like you. That is why, 4 years after the first signs of trouble appeared, there is a large percentage of people who refuse to try to understand what happened in this country, but willing to blame it all on the banks/fianna fail/developers etc. And why, 4 years on, we have yet to actually fix the problems. 4 years ago, many other western countries were in far bigger trouble than us. But by taking the necessary actions, they are now in a much better position than us.

Oh right so. You've made your point. Helpful. Never heard it before neither. The irony, is that your above point is just another twist on the blame game.

Why post here if you don't want my advice?

Notice the posts before yours. I asked a specific question, which others seemed to be able to understand.

Were you hoping that loads of people would just post here agreeing with you that you are being "abused"

Very grown up. I wasn't seeking agreement. I gave my story and asked a simple question, 'Is there anything I can do?'

and that we should "punish the banks"

Could you point out where I said lets punish the banks? Actually, don't bother as I don't appreciate any of your unhelpful input thus far.

You admit you know nothing about the financial sector,

No, didn't say that. I said i had no interest in it. I do my own taxes, household budgets, worked in a Bank for 3 years and have invested in shares etc. However, the financial sector is a tedious place and I have no interest in it and I generally know what I need to know. As I mentioned earlier though, I unfortunately didn't know a very important part of a mortgage agreement, not that its central to my OP anyway.

happy to believe that there is some bogeyman out there responsible for problems.

:rolleyes: Preconceptions are such a pain in the hole.

You've made your view about 'people like me' (whoever they are) stopping economic recovery, clear. So now that you've cast judgement and got that off your chest, is there anything forward thinking or constructive you could add to my OP? Namely, we are trapped in negative equity and in our mortgage with our lender as a consequence. Have we any options? Again, I really don't require a visit from Captain Hindsight, as I said, I possess his powers myself.

No problem.

Jim2007 wrote: »

The only real way to avoid financial peril for you and your family is to become well versed in personal finance, which is something you seem to be averse to....

So what would you have the government do? perhaps they could appoint someone to supervise your financial decisions.... or perhaps there should be some kind of examination before you are allowed to take out a mortgage, enter a HP agreement or sign up for a pension, so they can be sure you understand what you are doing! Apart from ensuring that adequate information is available, I doubt that anyone of us would want the government involved in our financial decision to that extent!

As regards what to do in your current situation:

- Increase income: do any kind of casual work you can find, sell stuff: I flog all the stuff I don't need on eBay about once a year.

- Reduce out goings: buy second hand (eBay again!). I've lived in Switzerland for almost 20 years and I'm always amazed at how frugal they are - first of all they'll never replace anything unless it is well beyond repair, then the first stop is the Brocki (second hand shop) and only if that fails will they consider the possibility of buying a new item... you almost never see a Swiss with new ski gear, it is almost always second hand... TV & Radio equipment the same story, a broken TV is replaced by a 5 year old model from the second hand shop and so on... visit any professional's household and you'll find lots of second hand stuff!

- Declare yourself bankrupt: Having worked in Ireland in the 1980s in the Insolvency and liquidation business, this is an option I would not wish on anyone.

Jim.

As buffybot mentioned, I'd like to stick with the op thanks. Have you anything to sugest regards the OP? Opinions of what you think I'm averse to etc mean nothing to me tbh. I just want specific advice, as per the OP, its that simple.

Jim2007 wrote: »

Frankly, since you feel free to pepper all your posts with uninformed opinions on financial matters, you must expect that others have a right to express their opinions as well.

In fact opinion is all we can offer! We can't wave a magic wand to fix your financial problems, all we can do is offer some sympathy, so ideas about how you might manage the situation through budgeting and educating to ensure that it does not happen again...

If that is not what you are after then I would suggest you go pay a professional and see what they have to offer....

Good luck with that,

Jim

So do you have anything constructive to add to my specific question? I appreciate that you are saying 'take steps to make sure it doesn't happen again', but I'm not seeking advice on budgeting. Thats a WHOLE different question, for a WHOLE different circumstance. It feels like sh1t knowing my own mistakes have been a big part in where I'm at, and I don't need to be told it. Yes I'm p1ssed off at the banks, Yes I'm p1ssed off with the government, and yes I'm p1ssed off with ME. Now have you got something constructive to ad TO THE OP? You can think of me as a complete financial retard for all that it matters, but I'd love to know if you have any advice on the actual OP. It does seem that, as my OP suggests, we have nowhere to turn. Certainly will try negotiating, but I wont hold my breath for any good to come of that.