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Cyclists not using Cycle lanes?

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  • 19-01-2011 3:16pm
    #1
    Two Boys
    Registered Users Posts: 117 ✭✭


    Can anyone tell me why so many cyclists still cycle on the roads when there are really good cycle paths available.
    Especially from the N11 past Eden Gate and down through Charlesland.
    I am no pro, I only cylcle occasionally, but I always use the paths as they are safer and it seems easier.
    As a Driver it is kinda frustrating !

    Just wondering that's all...


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    #2
    dr ro
    Registered Users Posts: 970 ✭✭✭dr ro


    anyone serious about cycling, timing themselves, training or practising on the king of greystones route Will go on the road rather than the cycle lane due to the cycle path going around the roundabouts. It being a large dual carriageway that is rarely if ever busy is probably another reason that cyclists use it. Also, it's probably safer for all concerned, particularly the walkers, joggers, runners and buggies that seem to prefer the cycle lanes to the footpath.


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    #3
    luapenak
    Registered Users Posts: 311 ✭✭luapenak


    dr ro wrote: »
    anyone serious about cycling, timing themselves, training or practising on the king of greystones route Will go on the road rather than the cycle lane due to the cycle path going around the roundabouts. It being a large dual carriageway that is rarely if ever busy is probably another reason that cyclists use it. Also, it's probably safer for all concerned, particularly the walkers, joggers, runners and buggies that seem to prefer the cycle lanes to the footpath.

    This is exactly how I see it too.
    Also, particularly at the Eden Gate round about and the Superquinn roundabout your more likely to have to yield for cars if you're in the cycle lane.


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    #4
    loyatemu
    Registered Users Posts: 14,866 ✭✭✭✭loyatemu


    Two Boys wrote: »
    As a Driver it is kinda frustrating

    its a not-particularly-busy dual-carriageway - I don't see why it would be frustrating, just overtake any cyclists you come across.

    When I used to cycle down to the station I used the cycle lanes, when I'm out on my road bike (very seldom :o) I use the road.

    The cycle-lanes around Greystones aren't too bad compared with some of the lanes elsewhere but they do suffer from some of the same faults - they're less direct than the roads, you have to stop and yield more often, they accumulate debris (gravel in particular) and there are frequently pedestrians and joggers on them.


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    #5
    recedite
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,993 ✭✭✭✭recedite


    The 100 metres or so past the shops at Edengate is quite useful, if you are coming from Charlesland and want to get onto Priory road. It still requires a quick sprint from the roundabout against the traffic to get to the gap in the railings though :)


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    #6
    Welsh Wizard
    Closed Accounts Posts: 452 ✭✭Welsh Wizard


    I love the way they gang up and ride 2 or 3 in a line, blocking the flow of traffic altogether in that direction having a aul chin wag about whos got the tightest pants on.

    I normally give them a good spray of the washer wiper as i go past...
    I'm actually thinking of up-grading the fluid to Nitro-morse...;)

    If there's a cycle lane then use it, it's there for your own safety, plus i dont want to dent my car when i run over you...


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    #7
    artvandelay48
    Registered Users Posts: 562 ✭✭✭artvandelay48


    Welsh Wizard wrote: »
    I love the way they gang up and ride 2 or 3 in a line, blocking the flow of traffic altogether in that direction having a aul chin wag about whos got the tightest pants on.

    I normally give them a good spray of the washer wiper as i go past...
    I'm actually thinking of up-grading the fluid to Nitro-morse...;)

    If there's a cycle lane then use it, it's there for your own safety, plus i dont want to dent my car when i run over you...

    Nice...

    Like or not, cyclists have as much right to be on the roads even if they are two or three a breast... and the argument could be made that it is much safer for cyclists to be two abreast than single file (ie cyclists are less likely to get squeezed off the road if they are two abreast)

    do you also suggest that other slow moving vehicles, like tractors, should be taken off the roads so you can bomb around to your heart's content? get a grip buddy...


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    #8
    d'Oracle
    Registered Users Posts: 7,025 ✭✭✭d'Oracle


    Welsh Wizard wrote: »
    I love the way they gang up and ride 2 or 3 in a line, blocking the flow of traffic altogether in that direction having a aul chin wag about whos got the tightest pants on.

    I normally give them a good spray of the washer wiper as i go past...
    I'm actually thinking of up-grading the fluid to Nitro-morse...;)

    If there's a cycle lane then use it, it's there for your own safety, plus i dont want to dent my car when i run over you...

    Blocking the flow of traffic....I'd assume we are talking about a single lane road here.

    I am not a cyclist and make no apologies for poor cyclist behavior, but the reality is that people who cycle have to look out for themselves. In Ireland we drivers generally have an utterly disgraceful attitude to cyclists, pedestrians, road features and other motorists.

    Cyclists are by the nature of being on a bike, more vulnerable road users.
    But Irish drivers don't think of that and seldom give a wide enough birth or worse, overtake cyclists where there is no overtaking. The result is that on more dangerous sections of road (i.e. the bits where you see cyclists out in the middle of the lane or cycling more than 2 a breast) cyclists take control of their own safety by taking up the whole lane.

    Put simply, drivers can't be trusted.
    I learned this myself using Dublin Bikes in town for a couple of months.


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    #9
    Mullie
    Registered Users Posts: 258 ✭✭Mullie


    I was almost taken off my bike heading down to the Superquinn roundabout last Sunday cause a car wanted to make the junction before me. Idiot! I'm new to road cycling and I'm amazed at the way people drive.
    As for using the road rather than the cycling lane, I used to think the same thing as the OP. Now I understand that along with the loss of speed and/or waiting to cross at the pedestrian crossing road bikes really need a smooth surface. The breaks in cycle lanes ruin the slim wheels and are a sure way to get punctures.
    Also, I could never understand why cyclists just won't use the hard shoulder, but after a few rides out I've realised that all the grit/pebbles from the road end up there and slick road tyres spit everything up at you!
    As for riding 2 or 3 abreast, I really don't agree with that. Its just dangerous.
    cyclists take control of their own safety by taking up the whole lane
    Just read this, yeah, guess that makes sense.


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    #10
    Dunphus
    Closed Accounts Posts: 138 ✭✭Dunphus


    Welsh Wizard wrote: »
    I love the way they gang up and ride 2 or 3 in a line, blocking the flow of traffic altogether in that direction having a aul chin wag about whos got the tightest pants on.

    I normally give them a good spray of the washer wiper as i go past...
    I'm actually thinking of up-grading the fluid to Nitro-morse...;)

    If there's a cycle lane then use it, it's there for your own safety, plus i dont want to dent my car when i run over you...

    Bad form.

    I suggest you have a go at cycling


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    #11
    Jammyc
    Registered Users Posts: 1,979 ✭✭✭Jammyc


    In my experience, motorists don't seem to feel the need to use indicators when only cyclists are about. Good god, everyone needs to know where you're going!


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    #12
    Matt Le Tissue
    Registered Users Posts: 206 ✭✭Matt Le Tissue


    Im not the biggest fan of some cyclists however cars not indicating when cyclists are about? they dont indicate full stop!


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    #13
    recedite
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,993 ✭✭✭✭recedite


    Welsh Wizard wrote: »
    I love the way they gang up and ride 2 or 3 in a line, blocking the flow of traffic altogether in that direction having a aul chin wag about whos got the tightest pants on.

    I normally give them a good spray of the washer wiper as i go past...
    I'm actually thinking of up-grading the fluid to Nitro-morse...;)

    If there's a cycle lane then use it, it's there for your own safety, plus i dont want to dent my car when i run over you...
    Mind you don't get caught by Inspector Morse
    (thats nitromoors you meant) :pac:


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    #14
    loyatemu
    Registered Users Posts: 14,866 ✭✭✭✭loyatemu


    this sh1t isn't funny - you want to joke about running people down or spraying them with caustic chemicals take it to after hours.


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    #15
    Welsh Wizard
    Closed Accounts Posts: 452 ✭✭Welsh Wizard


    artvandelay48 wrote: »
    Nice...
    do you also suggest that other slow moving vehicles, like tractors, should be taken off the roads so you can bomb around to your heart's content? get a grip buddy...

    No.. who said anything about tractors..?:confused:, Read the thread title... Buddy!
    Dunphus wrote: »
    Bad form.

    I suggest you have a go at cycling

    Today I cycled to the dart station and back... plus I used the cycle lane..
    Jammyc wrote: »
    In my experience, motorists don't seem to feel the need to use indicators when only cyclists are about. Good god, everyone needs to know where you're going!
    Matt Le Tissue wrote: »
    Im not the biggest fan of some cyclists however cars not indicating when cyclists are about? they dont indicate full stop!

    This is why i use the cycle lanes, the cycle lanes are there for a reason and so are indicators for that matter...
    Drivers over here like to keep you guessing...
    loyatemu wrote: »
    this sh1t isn't funny - you want to joke about running people down or spraying them with caustic chemicals take it to after hours.

    Sorry about that, was just trying to have a bit of light hearted banter whilst getting my point across..:rolleyes:
    I'd never do something like that..
    Normally I'd tell you to jog-on, but I think you're one of the better mod's on here..Oh and by the way you spelt Shi7 wrong...!!;)


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    #16
    Dunphus
    Closed Accounts Posts: 138 ✭✭Dunphus


    Welsh Wizard wrote: »
    Today I cycled to the dart station and back... plus I used the cycle lane..

    Ah I see, well that justify's your post. Were you on the road where there was no cycle lane out of interest? Did anyone try and run you over, spray water at you or worse?

    I used to cycle up and down Farankelly road quite a lot. It got to the point where I was tired of having to shout to walkers/joggers that I was coming, terrified that I'd cycle into a dog lead and fed up fixing punctures from smashed bottles and also, when wet that tactile paving at the pedestrian crossings is lethal for cyclists with thin tires. I don't think your commute is a fair comparison to some people training for a sport, a team sport at that in which people cycle in groups and I see no harm in using one of the two lanes on a dual carraigeway that isn't particularly busy especially as I often found it safer.

    There's an attitude that a lot of drivers have that cyclists are an inconvenience, sure some of them are but most are considerate of other road users and would expect the same consideration from motorists.


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    #17
    Welsh Wizard
    Closed Accounts Posts: 452 ✭✭Welsh Wizard


    Dunphus wrote: »
    Ah I see, well that justify's your post. Were you on the road where there was no cycle lane out of interest? Did anyone try and run you over, spray water at you or worse?

    I used to cycle up and down Farankelly road quite a lot. It got to the point where I was tired of having to shout to walkers/joggers that I was coming, terrified that I'd cycle into a dog lead and fed up fixing punctures from smashed bottles and also, when wet that tactile paving at the pedestrian crossings is lethal for cyclists with thin tires. I don't think your commute is a fair comparison to some people training for a sport, a team sport at that in which people cycle in groups and I see no harm in using one of the two lanes on a dual carraigeway that isn't particularly busy especially as I often found it safer.

    You need thicker, run flat tyres and a loud horn so..;)

    I should of mentioned that I was talking about the hard shoulder on the N11 and up the hill towards Windgates..


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    #18
    recedite
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,993 ✭✭✭✭recedite


    You don't like people cycling two abreast on the N11 hard shoulder?


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    #19
    Welsh Wizard
    Closed Accounts Posts: 452 ✭✭Welsh Wizard


    recedite wrote: »
    You don't like people cycling two abreast on the N11 hard shoulder?

    It doesn't really bother me, if they want to do that whilst trucks fly past them then fair enough... I know I'd prefer single file...


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    #20
    artvandelay48
    Registered Users Posts: 562 ✭✭✭artvandelay48


    Welsh Wizard wrote: »
    No.. who said anything about tractors..?:confused:, Read the thread title... Buddy!

    I read the thread pal and I presumed you were exercised about slow moving vehicles such as people on bicycles (surely tractors are the same) preventing you from boy racering around the roads... but I must have credited you with more wit, you were only exercising your irrational peevishness with cyclists...


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    #21
    Welsh Wizard
    Closed Accounts Posts: 452 ✭✭Welsh Wizard


    artvandelay48 wrote: »
    I read the thread pal and I presumed you were exercised about slow moving vehicles such as people on bicycles (surely tractors are the same) preventing you from boy racering around the roads... but I must have credited you with more wit, you were only exercising your irrational peevishness with cyclists...

    WTF are you on about..??

    Who said I even drive..?? and being a boy racer...??

    I have put my input in to this thread, surely i dont deserve this muck back..

    I'm outta here...


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    #22
    monument
    Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators Posts: 14,076 Mod ✭✭✭✭monument


    Welsh Wizard wrote: »
    WTF are you on about..??

    Who said I even drive..?? and being a boy racer...??

    I have put my input in to this thread, surely i dont deserve this muck back..

    I'm outta here...

    You did:
    Welsh Wizard wrote: »
    I love the way they gang up and ride 2 or 3 in a line, blocking the flow of traffic altogether in that direction having a aul chin wag about whos got the tightest pants on.

    I normally give them a good spray of the washer wiper as i go past...
    I'm actually thinking of up-grading the fluid to Nitro-morse...;)

    If there's a cycle lane then use it, it's there for your own safety, plus i dont want to dent my car when i run over you...

    You may think it was a joke. But if you think knocking people down is funny you have a twisted sense of humour.


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    #23
    LEIN
    Moderators Posts: 9,936 ✭✭✭LEIN


    Lads, please take the handbags to pm and not have it out on thread. Thanks.


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    #24
    Cookie_Monster
    Registered Users Posts: 24,486 ✭✭✭✭Cookie_Monster


    I will generally use the road over separate cycle lanes for several reasons
    1. Less likely to encounter pedestrians/ groups of peds on the road :p
    2. Less crap littering the roads, cycle lanes rarely if ever get swept / cleaned and consequently end up with all sorts of crap in them, especially after the recent snow being cleared onto them full of grit and gravel
    3. Roads are much safer at junctions than most cycle lanes which tend to feed in badly or give motorist turning across you priority, leading to you being squashed.
    4. Many cycle lanes are up and down over drives & bus stops, the roads are flatter
    5. Many cycle lanes are stupid, short, badly positioned or full of signposts
    6. Many have awful surfaces, especially after the bad weather, lots of cracks, craters, flaking surfaces (especially that red stuff)

    :)


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    #25
    Cryos
    Registered Users Posts: 816 ✭✭✭Cryos


    While not to get directly into the conversation on who is right or wrong etc....

    Im putting this here for people as it is apparent to me that there is an optionality about some of the rules of the road:
    http://www.rulesoftheroad.ie/rules-for-pedestrians-cyclists-motorcyclists/cyclists/cyclists_cycling-safely.html

    Clearly states that if cycle tracks are provided you must use them, unless in the specific examples they give.

    Secondly on the filing issue:

    http://www.rulesoftheroad.ie/rules-for-pedestrians-cyclists-motorcyclists/cyclists/cyclists_other-road-users.html
    Do cycle in single file if cycling beside another person would endanger, inconvenience or block other traffic or pedestrians.

    I have come across this in many genuine instances and i have no problem with people side by side (its most applicable if your going from kilcoole to greystones really where there are genuine areas of safety concern at knockroe).

    The rules are there for everyones safety, motorists dont want to hit cyclists, cyclists dont want to hit pedestrians etc...

    Again as i say, im just providing the black and white text as i feel some people have produced some self facts about the subject on either end.


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    #26
    SleepDoc
    Registered Users Posts: 303 ✭✭SleepDoc


    Cryos wrote: »
    http://www.rulesoftheroad.ie/rules-for-pedestrians-cyclists-motorcyclists/cyclists/cyclists_cycling-safely.html

    Clearly states that if cycle tracks are provided you must use them, unless in the specific examples they give.

    Secondly on the filing issue:

    http://www.rulesoftheroad.ie/rules-for-pedestrians-cyclists-motorcyclists/cyclists/cyclists_other-road-users.html
    Do cycle in single file if cycling beside another person would endanger, inconvenience or block other traffic or pedestrians.


    Again as i say, im just providing the black and white text as i feel some people have produced some self facts about the subject on either end.


    Re cycle tracks, although it clearly states that you must use them, the ROTR is not specific on what constitutes a cycle track. Many of the so called cycle tracks in Dublin are nothing of the sort.

    Re cycling in single file, "Do cycle" etc can only be taken as advisory, not mandatory. As a cyclist you are perfectly entitled to cycle two abreast. Even cycling alone, you are perfectly entitled to take up the entire lane. This rarely delays any motorist.


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    #27
    Dunphus
    Closed Accounts Posts: 138 ✭✭Dunphus


    Cryos wrote: »
    While not to get directly into the conversation on who is right or wrong etc....

    Im putting this here for people as it is apparent to me that there is an optionality about some of the rules of the road:
    http://www.rulesoftheroad.ie/rules-for-pedestrians-cyclists-motorcyclists/cyclists/cyclists_cycling-safely.html

    Clearly states that if cycle tracks are provided you must use them, unless in the specific examples they give.

    Secondly on the filing issue:

    http://www.rulesoftheroad.ie/rules-for-pedestrians-cyclists-motorcyclists/cyclists/cyclists_other-road-users.html
    Do cycle in single file if cycling beside another person would endanger, inconvenience or block other traffic or pedestrians.

    This has been debated countless times in the cycling forum. I personally would not use a cycling lane if I consider it less safe than the road just because the law tells me (I don't disregard the law, in fact I think the gardaí should ruthlessly enforce the law to have lights on the bike as they do in the Netherlands as this is more dangerous). I had a brief period as a council engineer and admirably met someone who refused to put up the cycle lane signs (which at the time made use of the lane mandatory) when he considered the lanes to be useless or dangerous because he was a cyclist himself, I doubt everyone else had the same insight. As previously mentioned the cycle paths are not maintained to the same standard as the roads and I have noticed people sometimes don't realise how fast cyclists are going, I would be going over 40 km/h coming down Farankelly road, at this speed a fall can be quite serious and if I have less chance of falling on the road I would prefer to be there.

    I'm not swinging handbags but I would like you to see this from the cyclists point of view as well, we're not being ignorant! :)


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    #28
    monument
    Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators Posts: 14,076 Mod ✭✭✭✭monument


    Cryos wrote: »
    While not to get directly into the conversation on who is right or wrong etc....

    Im putting this here for people as it is apparent to me that there is an optionality about some of the rules of the road:
    http://www.rulesoftheroad.ie/rules-for-pedestrians-cyclists-motorcyclists/cyclists/cyclists_cycling-safely.html

    Clearly states that if cycle tracks are provided you must use them, unless in the specific examples they give.

    Secondly on the filing issue:

    http://www.rulesoftheroad.ie/rules-for-pedestrians-cyclists-motorcyclists/cyclists/cyclists_other-road-users.html
    Do cycle in single file if cycling beside another person would endanger, inconvenience or block other traffic or pedestrians.

    I have come across this in many genuine instances and i have no problem with people side by side (its most applicable if your going from kilcoole to greystones really where there are genuine areas of safety concern at knockroe).

    The rules are there for everyones safety, motorists dont want to hit cyclists, cyclists dont want to hit pedestrians etc...

    Again as i say, im just providing the black and white text as i feel some people have produced some self facts about the subject on either end.

    The Rules of the Road are not the law. The law on mandatory use defines 'cycle tracks' as a lane which starts with these signs, and include other "signs" such as road markings and lines:

    Moto210.gifMoto211.gif

    Most off-road / on-footpath and many other so-called cycle lanes do not include these, thus are not cycle tracks and mandatory use does not apply. There are other major problems with signs -- for example, other than contra-flow bus lanes, cycles are allowed in all bus lanes regardless of incorrect signage.


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    #29
    roc_racer
    Closed Accounts Posts: 44 ✭roc_racer


    @Welsh Wizard - my club and several others use North Wicklow roads extensively for training purposes and obviously cycle lanes are unsuitable for this purpose. Also, I believe the group I ride with often includes a detective garda and anyone using their car as an offensive weapon comes in for a world of pain...


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    #30
    Tonyandthewhale
    Registered Users Posts: 1,867 ✭✭✭Tonyandthewhale


    Cycles lanes are a joke, they're not built with cyclist safety in mind but rather because of people wanting cyclists off the road and out of the way and politicians wanting to promote their 'green agenda' without doing any research.

    If you ride on the road and come to a red light at a typical four-way crossroads then you can join the main stream of traffic and move off when it does. This means you are visible as drivers and can act in a predictable fashion (predictable behaviour being the key to road safety). Even if you file up the inside of a line of traffic you'll still be moving in a uniform direction with the traffic and not cutting across it as you would with an off-road cycle track.
    An on-road cycle track will put you in a similar position to cycling on the road but will force you to keep to the left even if you plan on going straight or turning left. This obviously poses a danger for inexperienced cyclists who trust the lanes and end up going straight to the left of left turning traffic with often nasty results.
    Off-road cycle lanes are the worst. They force you to take the same position as a pedestrian (without the low-speed maneouvaribility, remember the average road cyclist is riding a machine 1.8m long and is often clipped into his pedals for greater high-speed control). In this instance you emerge from the side and cross the stream of traffic at a right angle. Driver's will be focused on the lights and the main stream of traffic several metres to your right or left and may not see you coming with often catastrophic consequences (the majority of fatal car-bike collisions occur in a similar situation). This situation is alleviated somewhat where there are pedestrian crossing lights but then there is increased risk of collision with a pedestrian.
    One should also bear in mind that on-path/off-road cycle tracks often run across drive-ways where traffic will pull out expecting a couple of metres of empty path. This is alright if you're travelling on foot as you should be able to stop short quickly and easily but it's a different and far more dangerous matter if you're travelling at 35-40km an hour on a road bike.
    There's no advantage for the cyclist to use cycle-lanes. The only advantage is to the driver who's slightly less likely to have to over-take any slow-moving cyclist although the driver's no-claims bonus is now in jeopardy as they are much more likely to have a collision with the cycle-track using cyclist.


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    #31
    LEIN
    Moderators Posts: 9,936 ✭✭✭LEIN


    Guys this ain't a specific Greystones & Charlesland issue.

    There is a cycling forum maybe the debate can continue there?


This discussion has been closed.
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