'Beyond the Roundabout'

luvvie dahling · 23-04-2010 4:37pm #1

‘Beyond the Roundabout’ is a really great concept; as a response to the biggest event in this city in living memory, the Belltable (with the support of the Arts Council) have commissioned independent film-maker, Nicky Larkin, to engage with the regeneration of certain parts of the city over an eight month period. I went to see the film on Wednesday night.

I had a personal interest because I had met with the affable Mr Larkin a number of times when he was filming, usually in my neighbour’s house in Weston gardens. The night of the screening the same neighbour was standing outside the Belltable distributing leaflets that explained his decision to have his name and his input removed from the film. He had been ejected from the Belltable before I arrived, on the grounds that he was prejudicing the opinions of the audience before they had even seen the film, which was a fair point; he had certainly coloured my expectations. From his reaction to the preview, I had imagined a one-sided uncritical vindication of the Regeneration Project.

I was surprised. Mr Larkin’s film is not a documentary with bias, nor is it an even-handed documentary. It is not a documentary at all, and it doesn’t pretend to be. It is a collage of well-composed and often poignant imagery that proceeds at a deliberately measured pace, giving the audience plenty of time to think about what they are seeing. A technique that was, certainly in the beginning, extremely effective.

For those of us who live alongside the decay and devastation of some of these areas it can become easy to ‘block it out’ after a while and not really see it anymore. Sitting in a darkened room and sharing the collective horror and disgust brought it all back. Mr Larkin’s portrayal of sheer ugliness was unflinching, and was done well. Unfortunately for a film of 45 minutes length, he didn’t portray anything else. His use of black space, silence, and half-heard echoes, which gave the film a disconnected dream-like quality in the beginning, became simply annoying after a while. The (unidentified) voice of Brendan Kenny is heard passionlessly defending himself against accusations that nobody makes.

The Residents, when they appear, are nervous, and the combination of nerves, strong accents and poor sound quality make them incomprehensible. Also, while what we do see of the Regeneration areas is beautifully shot, we don’t see very much of them. Mr Larkin was economical enough to use the same burnt-out house at least five different times in long-lingering shots from different angles. This may have been deliberate, but combined with the black spaces and poor quality sound, it just came across as lazy. Perhaps the most heart-breaking of all was his depiction of children as gangland gargoyles, either literally voiceless, with the soundtrack removed or “scobing it up” for the camera; singing rap-songs about stabbing and ‘giving the finger’.

It is very hard to know what, if anything is meant by any of this, and it can be argued that as a piece of Art,- Mr Larkin’s film doesn’t have to mean anything at all. But if this is the case, why include the voices of Mr Kenny and the residents discussing Regeneration? Mr Larkin’s talent and concern is clearly imagery; the inclusion of unidentified opinions and musings seem totally unnecessary to his film as Art and feel more like an attempt to pay literal lip-service to the films stated objective. Aesthetically, it undermines the experience and confuses the audience as brains search desperately for a connection between the images and soundtrack, before finally giving up in frustration.

The Aspirations of the Belltable and the Arts council in commissioning this work remain laudable, so it is doubly tragic that so much time, money, labour, and good intentions on what amounts to a visual cliché of gangland limerick that illustrates very little except perhaps Mr Larkin’s skill as a photographer and his limitations as an editor.

Itsdacraic · 23-04-2010 4:54pm

I agree

talkingclock · 23-04-2010 5:13pm

Wha?! A bit shorter and easier to read maybe?

Kess73 · 23-04-2010 6:42pm

While the original concept may have been laudable, the end product is pretty much a waste of money.

I am guessing that many have not heard of it, so below is a trailer. Picture the trailer lasting three quarters of an hour and you won't be far off the end product.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vpYOrIx_7Eg

A thought provoking piece? Yes it is, but not in the way the makers would have wished methinks. Especially as the film is being advertised as "explores the impact of the Regeneration process during a period of significant and dynamic change"

luvvie dahling · 25-04-2010 2:42pm

I think It's right that money should be spent on this sort of thing.
A video that engages with Regeneration over eight months is an excellent thing to allocate resources for. I'm just shocked that they got so little in return. The greatest waste was the waste of opportunity.
It is supposed to be the fruit of eight months work; Does anybody know how much the Arts Council actually paid for it? Or where you'd find that out?

Kranky Nilic · 01-05-2010 6:20pm

I heard he killed Gerry Ryan too....

Nicky Larkin · 05-05-2010 3:17pm

A piece of art doesn't necessarily have to exist on the gallery wall, or be about something abstract or conceptual. Just because my subject matter is real, rather than imagined or conceived, doesn't automatically mean it is not art. This film is an artistic response to a period in a time of supposed great change in the city of Limerick. That was my only brief.

At the same time, and as has been mentioned, the film is not a documentary, and was never intended to be a documentary. It is shot and edited in a deliberately slow and precise style. If you look at my other work, such as my piece Pripyat, shot in the Chernobyl exclusion zone, you will see that I have a very particular style of working.

As an artist, it is not my duty to make people happy. If there is such a thing as the role of the artist, then surely it is to ask questions/provoke debate? It has been said many times that my piece asks more questions than it answers, which I think is the case. It does not exist to promote either side of the argument; in fact at the preview screening mentioned in the initial post, one prominent Moyross resident said that he was "delighted that finally somebody was telling the truth about what was going on." Another local woman involved with the project described it as “a very real and true depiction.”

There are very strong opinions on all sides involved, and it would be impossible for a piece such as this to please everybody. Each individual interpretation of a piece of art will be always be different; that is surely one of the most fascinating things about art? However, the price we pay for this element, is that not everybody is always going to be happy with what has been created. That, I'm afraid, is the nature of art.

However - as is illustrated here; there exists today a medium for debate like never before, with internet sites, blogs, boards etc.....and we live in a democracy. People don’t have to like this piece. And if people don't like this piece, then they don't have to stay silent about it. Everybody has the right to an opinion, and to express that opinion.

But, if as it has been claimed, there is such heated debate taking place about this film; and therefore Limerick regeneration in general, surely then it is highly-successful as a piece of art ???

dermothickey · 13-05-2010 6:42pm

Sorry for digging up an old post but after reading the Limerick post today they gave out the Link to the film Here it is for everyone. I'll just say that it was an interesting short film. And well done to anyone who was involved we should at the very least have more films about Limerick until as in the words of one interviewee People aren't being made fools of by the government anymore. Certainly I believe some more positives could have been made but it was what it was.
In the words of Bob Marley

" How can you be sitting there telling me that you care...That you care, when every time I look around the people suffer people suffering every day each and every day"

http://www.vimeo.com/11322307

Cathal McCarthy · 30-05-2010 1:03pm

BEYOND THE ROUNDABOUT - BEHIND THE SCENES

On 30th March 2010, I was invited to attend an advance screening of Beyond The Roundabout, a film by independent film-maker, Nicky Larkin. As someone who had worked closely with Nicky while he was in Limerick, I was anxious to see the finished product. I was disappointed, but not entirely surprised, by the film.

Nicky first contacted me in February 2009; he left a message on my phone, hoping that I was the right Cathal McCarthy, and saying that he had been contracted by the Belltable Arts Centre to make "a film about regeneration from the residents point of view". As an Independent Community Activist living in a regeneration area I couldn't believe my ears, it sounded to good to be true. I returned Nicky's call and invited him to my home in Weston Gardens for a meeting.

Nicky reiterated that he was given a grant to make "a film about regeneration from the residents point of view" and that he needed to interview residents who were 'for' and 'against' it. He told me that he had been in Limerick a month and could find no one willing to help him and that he was afraid to venture into regeneration areas on his own.

I explained that there wasn't opposition to regeneration as such, but that many residents were concerned by the way in which it was been carried out, that many areas were now in worse condition than they were before the establishment of the Regeneration Agencies in September 2007. Anti-social behaviour was rampant and illegal dumping was rife.

But it wasn't all doom and gloom; residents were beginning to organise independently and groups like the Moyross Residents Alliance and the Weston Gardens Residents' Association (of which I am the Chair) were linking in with residents from other areas and demanding that the state and its agencies ensure that we live in a clean, safe and secure area while awaiting regeneration.

We had called on the Regeneration Agencies to sponsor a clean-up of all areas under their remit.

In this regard, Nicky's timing couldn't have been better, I had petitioned the EU and was invited to Brussels for an oral hearing. I led a delegation of residents from regeneration areas under the banner of Limerick Regeneration Watch. We succeeded and embarrassed the Regeneration Agencies into sponsoring a clean-up. Nicky filmed the whole event but it doesn't even get a mention in his film.

While it is claimed that Beyond the Roundabout was filmed over an 8-month period, in reality it was more like 4-weeks. However, Nicky Larkin did rent an apartment in Limerick City for 8-months. Although he told me that he would be in Limerick for 12 months.

I was there for most of the filming, most of which was shot sporadically in May and June 2009. During this time Nicky asked me if I would be willing to be named as producer in the credits, saying that without me he wouldn't have any material to work with. At the time I agreed, as I believed that Nicky was committed to giving voice to residents' grievances and aspirations.

Nicky had promised me from the beginning that he would contrast the pride that many residents' took in their homes with the boarded up houses that many are forced to live next to. Many well-kept gardens were filmed, including an allotment in Southill, but none are shown in Nicky's film.

I had also arranged most of the interviews, many of which never happened owing to Nicky's absence (he was either back home in Birr, up in Dublin or out of the country - Nicky is now based out in Amsterdam). I had also arranged for interviews with residents' from St. Mary's Park as well as a boat ride around the Island Field, but Nicky told me that he wasn't interested, saying he had enough footage already. St. Mary's Park is the only regeneration area not seen in the film.

The only time I refused to help Nicky in his endeavors was when he asked me if I could get someone to pose for his camera while wearing a hoodie and brandishing a gun (at this point I began to question his motives and doubt his sincerity). Instead, Nicky had to make do with getting a child in Moyross to pretend he was firing a machine gun. This image appears to have been chosen to promote the film abroad.

As I said earlier, I believed that Nicky would give voice to residents' grievances and aspirations. While filming in O'Malley Park, Southill, a group of girls (aged 5-6) were playing on the rock armour next to their homes, Nicky had asked their mothers permission to film them and while he did so I asked them what they wanted most from regeneration. One girl answered, "We want a playground", with this the other girls joined in and began to chant, "we want a playground, we want a playground, we want a playground". This is not featured in film; although the little girl is seen in the film, her voice is covered by white noise and echoing sound effects!

In my view, the dominant voice in Beyond The Roundabout is not that of the residents, but of Brendan Kenny, CEO of Limerick's Regeneration Agencies. Mr. Kenny laments the fact that his agencies had to sponsor a clean-up of the areas under his remit and talks about the Fitzgerald Report as if it's being implemented.

The first recommendation of the Fitzgerald Report was to establish a dedicated Garda service for the regeneration areas. This never happened and I, with other residents pointed this out in our interviews with Nicky, but none of it made it into the film. It is because of such deliberate omissions that I have asked that my name be removed from the credits along with the 30 seconds or less where I speak.

I suppose its true what they say, "he who pays the piper calls the tune" and I shouldn't have expected any less from someone who is dependent on government-sponsored grants for a living.

Kess73 · 30-05-2010 1:53pm

Interesting read Cathal.

It must have taken quite a bit of time and thought to compose a post of that length.

My original comment on the film was that the concept was a laudible one, but that, in my opinion, the end product did not match the concept and as such, and again in my opinion only, was a waste of money.

Your comments though add some weight to one side of the arguement , as you will have the knowledge and experience of both behind the scenes of some of the shooting of the film, and of course of the real picture of what is or is not happeneing on the ground with regards to the regeneration and how many residents feel about it.

I would be very interested to hear Nicky Larkin's counter arguement to what you have said, and would be interested to hear why the more positive footage was not used as well.

Nicky has already been on this thread and was good enough to take the time to make a long post with some of his thoughts.

I do feel that it was an opportunity lost though. If the short film was being put forward as solely an artistic piece, then I would understand and accept any explanation that the artist was following his own path and the film was a result of that path and did not have to conform to any preconcieved views.

But the film has been advertised as being a piece that "explores the impact of the Regeneration process during a period of significant and dynamic change", and in my eyes it fails totally in that claim.

I also noticed that the wording on the site where the full film is on show leans on the slightly sensationalistic side with lines like " the notorious Moyross & Southill estates in Limerick city", and a claim is made that the film is taking the viewer "deep inside Ireland's most neglected estates."

For a film that has a blurb that claims it is exploring the impact of regeneration, it seems to have very little in terms of exploring any issues, and more in terms of keeping a focus on a negative.

In a way the film is actually a sucess, as it does create debate, and any artistic piece that creates either positive or negative reactions has begun to justify it's existence as a stimulus.

dermothickey · 30-05-2010 2:29pm

From the post above and not knowing anyhting about Nick Larkin, I guess he isn't a local, and hence has no real care for the issues involved. At the end of the day it's peoples lives.

Maybe the next time they are dishing out grants they might choose to use a local person to avail of the grant. Somebody who actually cares and would portray a real picture, more indepth, with talking, interviews, explanation, criticisms. One of our own so to speak. How much of larkin's documentary was inspired by his view of Limerick people in general?

After reading your post Cathal, down to things like the children asking for a playground, Interviews and being able to air your voice in a documentary is a powerful thing and could have shamed the powers to be in to getting off their behind and start doing something worthwhile. Instead what was got was "art" a load of balls really when what is needed is action. Was the documentary really there to give outsiders a view on the regenaration areas, or was it simply there to strengthen the lack of progress, by giving an impression not fitting to the task.

Having the tools at your disposal means there is a responsibility on you to use them to the best of your ability, so if this is what came out of it, its a real pity.

Hopefully the next time around the "roundabout" can be a fruitful documentary done by Limerick people for Limerick people and the national coverage can see us truly painted.

RINO87 · 30-05-2010 2:47pm

I think everyone might be missing the point a little. In my opinion the film is supposed to be a piece of Video Art, and not a Documentary.......

Kess73 · 30-05-2010 2:55pm

RINO87 wrote: »

I think everyone might be missing the point a little. In my opinion the film is supposed to be a piece of Video Art, and not a Documentary.......

As I said in my post, I could accept that if the piece was not being billed as a film that explores the impact of the regeneration process upon the area and the people within that area.

Once a claim like that is made, and it is a claim when something says it explores a process, then a person could expect to some substance to back up the supposed exploration.

It was not simply billed as a artistic film piece with the regeneration process as inspiration, it was advertised as a look into the process, it's effects and what the views of the locals were.

Cathal McCarthy · 01-06-2010 12:07pm

Kess73 wrote: »

Interesting read Cathal.

It must have taken quite a bit of time and thought to compose a post of that length.

The post was composed on 19th April and was the content of a leaflet that I distributed outside the Belltable‘s off site location in Cecil Street to people attending the screening on 21st April.

I understood from the beginning that Nicky's film would not be a conventional documentary and that it would utilise experiential video, at the time I believed that this would make the film more engaging.

The end product is neither documentary nor art; it is a slapped together piece that now needs to be described as “art” in order to excuse the poor sound quality, lack of substance and failure to engage the viewer. The film is only 44mins, but it felt twice as long (half way through and I wanted it to be over).

It certainly isn’t “a film about regeneration from the residents point of view” as Nicky had told me (and others) it would be. It is a lost opportunity.

As for the film acting as a stimulus for debate, in that regard its “success” is unfortunately limited to the posts on this page.

Visit www.limerickregeneration.org if you would like to learn more.

Cathal McCarthy · 01-06-2010 12:41pm

dermothickey wrote: »

From the post above and not knowing anyhting about Nick Larkin, I guess he isn't a local, and hence has no real care for the issues involved. At the end of the day it's peoples lives.

Nicky is from Birr, Co. Offaly (now based out of Amsterdam).

Towards the end of the film you can see (but not hear) the little girl in Southill that I refered to and I am certain that she is saying "we want a playground, we want a playground" as she did when she was being filmed. I thought that a least that Nicky would have put that in.

I recently saw a student film in the Belltable (entitled: Arise And Awake Or Be Forever Fallen), which devoted some time to the regeneration issue. It was much more engaging and thought provoking than Beyond The Roundabout.

dermothickey · 01-06-2010 5:14pm

It would be worth our while alright chronicling regeneration for the archives for future generations to look upon. Imagine in 20 years time having a run of the old archives in rte and we come across beyond the roundabout!!

luvvie dahling · 01-06-2010 9:57pm

http://stuffinthangs.blogspot.com/2010/05/beyond-beyonds.html

Cathal McCarthy · 01-06-2010 11:29pm

luvvie dahling wrote: »

http://stuffinthangs.blogspot.com/2010/05/beyond-beyonds.html

Spot on luvvie, I couldn't have put it better myself.

You're right about the kids, I got the same impression while he was filming.

Cathal McCarthy · 01-06-2010 11:33pm

dermothickey wrote: »

It would be worth our while alright chronicling regeneration for the archives for future generations to look upon. Imagine in 20 years time having a run of the old archives in rte and we come across beyond the roundabout!!

If you know anyone that interested in helping with such a task I can be contacted through www.limerickregeneration.org

Davemc23 · 05-06-2010 2:15am

Some of you, in particular Cathal McCarthy, amongst others, are bringing personal opinions into what should be a debate about a film. I personally saw it and enjoyed it for what it was, something thought-provoking and different.

Disclosing issues about where the film-maker is from or how he went about his business is simply bad form. Slating his movie is one thing but becoming personal is quite another. Stating that Mr.Larkin is depending on government grants for instance; how do you know he doesn't have other income and what gives you the right to imply that he is a sponger? Or another posting saying that he is 'getting up to God knows what in Amsterdam'? My opinion is these are personal attacks which have no place in a forum such as this.

The point is, to Mr.McCarthy in particular, disclosing personal information about the film-maker and attacking him based on those assumptions, is very wrong indeed. For someone who is as vociferous and self-righteous as yourself in relation to doing all you can to help out people in the area, I sincerely hope you don't treat others as you have treated Mr.Larkin in this forum. Bad form Cathal, bad form indeed.

Kess73 · 05-06-2010 11:48am

Davemc23 wrote: »

Some of you, in particular Cathal McCarthy, amongst others, are bringing personal opinions into what should be a debate about a film. I personally saw it and enjoyed it for what it was, something thought-provoking and different.

Disclosing issues about where the film-maker is from or how he went about his business is simply bad form. Slating his movie is one thing but becoming personal is quite another. Stating that Mr.Larkin is depending on government grants for instance; how do you know he doesn't have other income and what gives you the right to imply that he is a sponger? Or another posting saying that he is 'getting up to God knows what in Amsterdam'? My opinion is these are personal attacks which have no place in a forum such as this.

The point is, to Mr.McCarthy in particular, disclosing personal information about the film-maker and attacking him based on those assumptions, is very wrong indeed. For someone who is as vociferous and self-righteous as yourself in relation to doing all you can to help out people in the area, I sincerely hope you don't treat others as you have treated Mr.Larkin in this forum. Bad form Cathal, bad form indeed.

Where Nicky Larkin is from is in the public domain as he has where in Offaly he is from and his year of birth up on his own webpage.

The comment about Amsterdam I would agree with you on, but I think most of us who took the time to comment in this thread have tried to focus on the film itself and not the film makers personal life.

For as long as the film gets described as being an exploration of the effects of the regeneration, and makes claims to be taking the viewer deep inside those areas, then it will be rightfully criticized for not being what it claims. It also claims to be merging a documentary with film art.

Some may claim that it is no such thing and that it is simply art, well if that is the case then maybe Mr Larkin should get the below taken fron his own site

a piece exploring the notorious Moyross and Southill estates in Limerick city, Ireland; a city which has been dubbed "The Murder Capital of Europe." The resulting piece, ‘Beyond The Roundabout?’, merges documentary with experimental film and video-art as it takes the viewer deep inside Ireland’s most neglected estates, areas widely regarded as the worst in the country in terms of poverty, crime and deprivation

As it paints the work as having far more substance than it actually has.

I will stick to my original view on the work that it is laudible in it's concept, but badly flawed in it's execution amd content, based upon what it has been publicly presented as being and containing.

As for the man behind the work, well I have only met and chatted with the man twice, so would not know him well enough to presume to comment on him personally.

Davemc23 · 05-06-2010 12:10pm

Fair comment Kess, my point was in no way meant to discourage people from critiqueing the film, from either a positive or a negative standpoint, it was merely an assertion that the personal stuff which has crept into this forum is wrong. However, i do accept that whatever info Mr.Larkin has in the public domain is fair game. Cheers.

dermothickey · 05-06-2010 3:38pm

My comment about where he is from was in my opinion highly valid as it certainly IMO dictated the depth of the film. Being from Limerick and having a care about the city would have explored deeper and had a better mandate, as it is our city and we do not like it depicted in a negative strange way. As my wish is that the next time a documentary film about regeneration should IMO be produced locally.

These threads are all opinions anyway.

Stab*City · 05-06-2010 6:35pm

Why do we even need a film about regeneration? Regeneration has been well documented in other cities like Chicago and Philly.. And it didnt work there either..

dermothickey · 05-06-2010 6:38pm

off topic now, how about a good old gangster film? get it in quick before they tear moyross and southill apart?

Cathal McCarthy · 06-06-2010 5:43pm

Davemc23 wrote: »

Some of you, in particular Cathal McCarthy, amongst others, are bringing personal opinions into what should be a debate about a film. I personally saw it and enjoyed it for what it was, something thought-provoking and different.

Disclosing issues about where the film-maker is from or how he went about his business is simply bad form. Slating his movie is one thing but becoming personal is quite another. Stating that Mr.Larkin is depending on government grants for instance; how do you know he doesn't have other income and what gives you the right to imply that he is a sponger? Or another posting saying that he is 'getting up to God knows what in Amsterdam'? My opinion is these are personal attacks which have no place in a forum such as this.

The point is, to Mr.McCarthy in particular, disclosing personal information about the film-maker and attacking him based on those assumptions, is very wrong indeed. For someone who is as vociferous and self-righteous as yourself in relation to doing all you can to help out people in the area, I sincerely hope you don't treat others as you have treated Mr.Larkin in this forum. Bad form Cathal, bad form indeed.

All opinions are personal, including your own opinion about my opinion.

I didn’t disclose any ‘personal’ information about Nicky Larkin, as I understand the phrase (where he is from and where he is now are a matter of public record and have been published in the Limerick Leader and Limerick Independent).

Having been present for most of the filming my opinion on the subject is unique, informed and relevant to the finished product. I also sought to challenge the blatant lies that were told to promote the film (Lies such as “it was filmed over an eight-month period”; I was being kind when I said four-weeks, as I included estimated time spent interviewing people as well as actual filming).

I did indeed state that Nicky Larkin was dependent on government grants because that’s what he told me and others; it wasn’t an assumption on my part as you claim.

When Nicky first contacted me he told me that he was commissioned to make “a film about regeneration from the residents’ point of view” – that’s not what he did. In my view, the film absolves the state of all responsibility and a lot of what was left out by Nicky would have challenged that impression. I can only assume that such editorial choices were made in pursuit of the next grant. Now that’s an assumption!

As for personal attacks, you describe me as “vociferous and self-righteous” having first lectured me on how I should express and confine my opinion!!!

At the end of the day I was lied to and duped, that was bad form and I have every right to point that out. The end product speaks for itself and I am curious to know what thoughts it actually provoked for Davemc23, as you have neglected to mention them.

Shampster · 21-11-2010 12:24pm

Just stumbled upon this thread and wound up watching the full version of "Beyond the roundabout" by Nicky Larkin...

I too was very, very disappointed in his depiction, especially when I read that it was supposed to be “a film about regeneration from the residents’ point of view” to quote Cathal McCarthy...

I am not from Limerick and I have never been to any of the places shown in the short film, but I was interested in learning more about these areas, as an Irish person... this is part of my country and I don't want to brush it under the carpet just because it's not in my back yard.

I felt that this 'documentary' was very one-sided and the 'artistic' choices made by Nicky were uninteresting, predictable and very amateur.

Documentaries are far more interesting when the film-maker keeps his opinions to himself and just shows us how it really is, rather than manipulating it. I hated that scene where the kid mimes firing a machine gun, it was so staged.

I wanted to know more about the good people of the estates, because nobody has shown us this yet and this is a far more interesting approach. I am sick of hearing about the joyriding etc, I want to see something different. I want to see and hear from the people who are silent, the people who are living in these areas because they love it. I then came across this little short film on youtube. It was created by a bunch of teenagers but is far more interesting than Nicky Larkin's short film:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LGVD5MFsidQ&NR=1

I found it ten times more moving and more passionate than Nicky Larkins short film. These kids showed the poverty, the misbehaviour, but also the heart.

padma · 21-11-2010 1:33pm

That was a refreshing look at St Mary's park, thank you for finding it and sharing it too.

RareVintage · 21-11-2010 2:38pm

[I'm not from Limerick and have no experience of the estates with crime/anti-social behaviour problems; just an interested observer]

I watched Larkin's film some time ago (before I read this thread) after I had searched on Youtube, Google and Vimeo for films about social problems in Limerick.

A couple of points:
If you read Nick's post above then you'll see that 2 points need to be born in mind in this discussion - it's an "art film", what used to be called a video installation. This is a medium of conceptual art (imo) the purpose of which is to stimulate a viewer interaction or response. It is not a documentary. Secondly Nicky points out that negatively critical responses are as valuable as positive ones.
Lots of people absolutely hate conceptual art and think the funding it gets could be better spent (I'm not one of them).

I think Nick should reply to Cathal's criticisms about how the project was proposed and then promoted, in such a way that the final piece has left some disappointment and a feeling of having been misled somewhat. Cathal, maybe you could locate the funding to engage Nick, a tv company, or a documentary producer to make another film that addresses the issues in a political way.
Maybe this forum is not the place for Nick to reply to Cathal.

I'm glad I found this thread. I really "liked" the film when I first saw it, I watched it three times in fact. I also watched some of Nick's other films on his Vimeo page

The film, as a work of art stands, or falls, on its own merits. You could equally criticise Lowry's depictions on Northern English industrial society as to whether his art does justice or not to the lives of the people depicted.

Perhaps such criticism might inspire the same artist, or a different person, to address the perceived deficit (you missed the point, you excluded this/that, your emphasis is misleading etc). In terms of Nick's film the criticism of its validity (an artwork with state funding) is valid in the absence of a balanced documentary exploring the issues with voices such as Cathal's (and the little girls) being heard.
But that criticism is in itself really valuable! You could say that Nick's film has inspired people to realise how valuable a proper, balanced documentary could be as part of a campaign for social justice and political accountability.

Lastly I think that the film is extremely well made. It can serve a purpose or function to draw the attention, to the specific areas and issues, of people who have never been to such places or experienced living in "problem" estates (people like me).
To an interested outsider this is a powerful film. The overriding impression it left me with was of a community/communities that have been unjustly abandoned and neglected - this raises a whole range of political questions and debate. Also I was left with the feeling that despite the very negative living conditions there will always be some people with the courage and energy to try to improve things from within, and that is a strong message of hope.
I think this film works on many levels. A viewer with substantial "inside" experience will obviously have more criticism of what the film left out or the balance of the film.

Anyway, sorry for going on a bit!
Fight the scum and fight for your dignity! Keep up with emails, letters, phone calls to councillors, journalists, politicians. Take photographs, keep a journal. Get together with some mates and clean up one small area, plant a flower bed. Make your voices heard.
I wish you guys in Limerick all the best and good luck.

Kess73 · 21-11-2010 4:11pm

RareVintage wrote: »

[I'm not from Limerick and have no experience of the estates with crime/anti-social behaviour problems; just an interested observer]

I watched Larkin's film some time ago (before I read this thread) after I had searched on Youtube, Google and Vimeo for films about social problems in Limerick.

A couple of points:
If you read Nick's post above then you'll see that 2 points need to be born in mind in this discussion - it's an "art film", what used to be called a video installation. This is a medium of conceptual art (imo) the purpose of which is to stimulate a viewer interaction or response. It is not a documentary. Secondly Nicky points out that negatively critical responses are as valuable as positive ones.
Lots of people absolutely hate conceptual art and think the funding it gets could be better spent (I'm not one of them).

I think Nick should reply to Cathal's criticisms about how the project was proposed and then promoted, in such a way that the final piece has left some disappointment and a feeling of having been misled somewhat. Cathal, maybe you could locate the funding to engage Nick, a tv company, or a documentary producer to make another film that addresses the issues in a political way.
Maybe this forum is not the place for Nick to reply to Cathal.

I'm glad I found this thread. I really "liked" the film when I first saw it, I watched it three times in fact. I also watched some of Nick's other films on his Vimeo page

The film, as a work of art stands, or falls, on its own merits. You could equally criticise Lowry's depictions on Northern English industrial society as to whether his art does justice or not to the lives of the people depicted.

Perhaps such criticism might inspire the same artist, or a different person, to address the perceived deficit (you missed the point, you excluded this/that, your emphasis is misleading etc). In terms of Nick's film the criticism of its validity (an artwork with state funding) is valid in the absence of a balanced documentary exploring the issues with voices such as Cathal's (and the little girls) being heard.
But that criticism is in itself really valuable! You could say that Nick's film has inspired people to realise how valuable a proper, balanced documentary could be as part of a campaign for social justice and political accountability.

Lastly I think that the film is extremely well made. It can serve a purpose or function to draw the attention, to the specific areas and issues, of people who have never been to such places or experienced living in "problem" estates (people like me).
To an interested outsider this is a powerful film. The overriding impression it left me with was of a community/communities that have been unjustly abandoned and neglected - this raises a whole range of political questions and debate. Also I was left with the feeling that despite the very negative living conditions there will always be some people with the courage and energy to try to improve things from within, and that is a strong message of hope.
I think this film works on many levels. A viewer with substantial "inside" experience will obviously have more criticism of what the film left out or the balance of the film.

Anyway, sorry for going on a bit!
Fight the scum and fight for your dignity! Keep up with emails, letters, phone calls to councillors, journalists, politicians. Take photographs, keep a journal. Get together with some mates and clean up one small area, plant a flower bed. Make your voices heard.
I wish you guys in Limerick all the best and good luck.

I could agree with what you have said totally if not for that one line.

On the artist's website the following is up as a synopsis of this particular piece of work.

Beyond The Roundabout? is a film by Irish artist Nicky Larkin exploring the notorious Moyross & Southill estates in Limerick city. Commissioned by The Irish Arts Council and The Belltable Arts Centre and shot over the course of eight months, it merges documentary with experimental film and video-art as it takes us deep inside Ireland’s most neglected estates, areas widely regarded as the worst in the country in terms of poverty, crime and deprivation. The Limerick City Council has decided to completely demolish these areas over the next number of years, and rebuild the troubled estates, in an attempt to wipe the slate clean. However, having been promised new homes as part of the City Council’s regeneration, the residents are becoming frustrated by the lack of action, living in constant fear amid an endless cycle of gangland violence and murder. But can a superficial transformation such as new homes really address such deep-rooted issues of social exclusion in the city?

Now that reads as if there is some depth in the film and that it explores some of the issues involved.

Now if the word documentary was taken from the synopsis and it had the line;

" it uses experimental film and video-art to takes us deep inside Ireland’s most neglected estates...."

Then I would take the arguement that it was simply a conceptual piece as being correct.

My own take is that it was hinted as being something more substantial that it actually was to garner interest and extra publicity.

RareVintage · 22-11-2010 1:59am

Kess, I agree absolutely. When I said that the film is not a documentary, that's because, having watched it I would say, if asked "A documentary? No that film is definitely not a documentary, it's an art-house piece or an installation piece that reflects some documentary issues from a particular perspective, but it's not a documentary..."

I would guess that blurb you quote was not written by Larkin, but by a PR person in the Arts Council. Only guessing mind...
I think "merging documentary with ..." is on the one hand misleading and on the other not so. I think "documentary" in this context refers specifically to an art style as opposed to "this film is part documentary film and part art film" - in that sense it's not misleading (to the likes of me at least, who is removed from the context and from any similar experience). I can quite see how it is misleading if you're from Limerick and you read a blurb that gives the impression that some guy is coming to make a documentary about regeneration of estates etc.
Art, like law or politics, has its own jargon, its own way of describing itself.

It's only my opinion but I'd say that the Arts Council or the Belltable PR people should have been much more sensitive to the (I think predictable) expectations of Limerick residents, and the likes of Cathal above, when they send in a film maker (as opposed to an artist) to make a film with "documentary" in the blurb (as opposed to an art piece that incorporates some documentary elements/style). Surely they could have imagined that people affected by severe issues, that have been kept largely under the media radar outside of Limerick at least, would have expectations and strong feelings.

Arts Council types can be terribly condescending when it comes to "working people", maybe they assumed that an "artist" coming to make an "art film" wouldn't be welcomed or understood in a "poor area". It's an attitude that's typical (though there are/have been exceptions) through history. It's a common misconception that only "educated" people can understand art. That's why Banksy is one of my art-world heroes! Marcel Duchamp is the archetypical hero of "go **** yourself" art when he found a ceramic urinal, signed it and entered it for an exhibition.

I would love to see a documentary film "Roundabout Limerick" that actually documents some of the problems, solutions, people and diversity of Limerick.
Maybe a committee could apply for Arts Council funding

For a start, politicians and the political structures need a good dose of apportioning of responsibility going back 40 years...

'Beyond the Roundabout'

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