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Mondeo swirl flaps issue

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  • 27-01-2010 11:45am
    #1
    Harcrid
    Registered Users Posts: 1,303 ✭✭✭


    Has anyone here had the issue with the swirl flaps in the Duratec Mondeo petrol engines? If so, I am just wondering what direction you took with it.

    For anyone who does not know, in petrol engined Mondeos between 2000 and 2003, there is an issue with the swirl flaps inside the inlet manifold that wear with age and can cause a clattering noise, and in the worst case scenario break off and parts get ingested into the engine causing terminal damage. My car has started making this clattering noise so I am wary of driving it until I get it sorted.

    From researching a few UK Ford forums, there seems to be three options.

    One is to take off the inlet manifold and remove the flaps completely. This does not seem to have any detrimental effects to the engine according to a few who have tried it.

    Two is to remove the manifold and replace the flaps with newer, stronger, modified ones. The problem with this is that Ford will not sell you the flaps separately as they say that you have to buy a whole new manifold. I tried ringing a few local Ford dealers yesterday who would not sell me the flaps separately, only the complete manifold.

    Three is to replace the complete manifold as above. The cost of this would be €300 + VAT plus three hours labour which is quite a lot!

    So has anyone experienced this before or what direction do you thinl it would be best to take? Personally I am leaning towards just removing the flaps completely and leaving it at that.


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    #2
    AzureAuto
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 233 ✭✭AzureAuto


    Youd be as well to have them removed. Ive come across this problem a lot, seems the dowels that the flaps pivot on get coked up with grease and gunk and either seize or (as in your case) start to disintegrate.


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    #3
    Leonard Hofstadter
    Registered Users Posts: 5,540 ✭✭✭Leonard Hofstadter


    BMW common rail diesels are also notorious for swirl flap problems(and turbos and MAFs and DMFs and injectors and did I forget positive crankcase breathers), Toyota have problems with them for the diesel Avensis as well, for BMW you can even buy blanking plates which you insert where the spindles for the flaps used to be and apparently those cars run perfectly without flaps, I'd say get the car de-flapped, even with the stronger newer ones there is still the risk that they can break off (unlikely though) so just get rid of them and that way you know you'll never have to worry about them again;)!


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    #4
    Harcrid
    Registered Users Posts: 1,303 ✭✭✭Harcrid


    Yeah I am leaning towards just removong them completely for piece of mind. I just have to decide whether to try and do this myself or get a mechanic to do it for me. I have really only done basic car DIY so I am wary about taking this on in case i F*** up!


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    #5
    Tonydruce
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3 ✭Tonydruce


    Celtxx wrote: »
    Yeah I am leaning towards just removong them completely for piece of mind. I just have to decide whether to try and do this myself or get a mechanic to do it forP me. I have really only done basic car DIY so I am wary about taking this on in case i F*** up!

    Hi mate. I have owned my 2002 2ltr mondeo ghia x for just a couple of weeks and so far I am rearley pleased with it. However I was most concerned to read of the manifold problems. My cars done 70k and as of yet I have not noticed a ny thing untoward. The vehicle was built in June 2002 and that puts it prior to the upgraded kit. Having spent all my dosh on the purchase i have to take the cheapest route and removal of the flaps seems a way forward. Can anyone offer advise based on their experience thanks


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    #6
    Harcrid
    Registered Users Posts: 1,303 ✭✭✭Harcrid


    It’s possible that a previous owner to you has already taken steps to fix the issue so you may not need to do anything. On my car, it was a very noticeable clattering noise from the manifold.

    In my case I had my mechanic remove the flaps for me and it was a good thing I did as he found the metal bar holding the flaps in place had broken and one of the flaps had fallen out was jammed just inside the head. If it had fallen through fully it would have been a major problem.

    I have not noticed any performance issues since doing this fix so I am happy with it.


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    #7
    Tonydruce
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3 ✭Tonydruce


    Hi. After a lot of research of forums and advise fromembers I have decided to opt for a complete upgraded inlet manifold supplied and fitted by my main dealer @ £450.00. Had enough of breakers wanting almost 100.00 for parts of unknown quality and further costs of adapting the later design manifold to my engine and wanting to have complete confidence that this is the matter sorted right first time. I thinkjits a case of pay up and look big lol thanks for everyones advice you have probably saved my engine as I was completely unaware of the problem

    For anyone who does not know, in petrol engined Mondeos between 2000 and 2003, there is an issue with the swirl flaps inside the inlet manifold that wear with age and can cause a clattering noise, and in the worst case scenario break off and parts get ingested into the engine causing terminal damage. My car has started making this clattering noise so I am wary of driving it until I get it sorted.

    From researching a few UK Ford forums, there seems to be three options.

    One is to take off the inlet manifold and remove the flaps completely. This does not seem to have any detrimental effects to the engine according to a few who have tried it.

    Two is to remove the manifold and replace the flaps with newer, stronger, modified ones. The problem with this is that Ford will not sell you the flaps separately as they say that you have to buy a whole new manifold. I tried ringing a few local Ford dealers yesterday who would not sell me the flaps separately, only the complete manifold.

    Three is to replace the complete manifold as above. The cost of this would be €300 + VAT plus three hours labour which is quite a lot!

    So has anyone experienced this before or what direction do you thinl it would be best to take? Personally I am leaning towards just removing the flaps completely and leaving it at that.[/QUOTE]
    Tonydruce wrote: »
    Hi mate. I have owned my 2002 2ltr mondeo ghia x for just a couple of weeks and so far I am rearley pleased with it. However I was most concerned to read of the manifold problems. My cars done 70k and as of yet I have not noticed a ny thing untoward. The vehicle was built in June 2002 and that puts it prior to the upgraded kit. Having spent all my dosh on the purchase i have to take the cheapest route and removal of the flaps seems a way forward. Can anyone offer advise based on their experience thanks


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    #8
    quarryman
    Registered Users Posts: 7,496 ✭✭✭quarryman


    I took them out of my 02 mondeo when they started getting a bit rattley at 100k.

    Took me about 3-4 hours start to finish I think.

    I haven't noticed any i'll affects since and no longer have to worry about them getting chewed up in the engine.

    I'm very glad I didn't go spending 300 euro plus on the part plus labour.

    Send me pm if you want any info/advice on carrying out the removal.


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    #9
    ulviking44
    Closed Accounts Posts: 41 ✭ulviking44


    hi all,

    i have a similar problem with my '01 mondeo 1.8 petrol - 89k on the clock. one main ford dealer told me €600 - €650 to replace entire manifold and he wont do just the valves even if the manifold itself is fine :mad:

    rang another main ford dealer who is willing to sell me just the butterfly valves (€7.11 each) but i have to replace them myself.

    im now looking for a mechanic in the cork area who will replace the old butterfly valves with the new ones for me. can anybody recommend somebody who may have done this for them, or know someone who will do this for me? i dont know enough to do it myself.

    alan


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    #10
    Tonydruce
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3 ✭Tonydruce


    hi all, Yeah, this flap problem is a real pain in rse. You just cant leave it and think the problem will go away lol. I thought about doing mine myself but without proper garage facillities I shopped around main dealers and got it done for 440 pounds inc vat. Vehicle returned to my home etc etc. When you took into account the cost of the replacement parts it would have meant me messing about in the cold for who knows how long to save less than 2 hundred pounds. Dont get me wrong, I always carry out my own repairs etc but when I looked down into that restricted area I thought someone else can have the pleasure. I got my old manifold back and the flaps were soundly attatched to the main shaft however there was plenty of slack in the plastic bearing moulding. In my case replacing the actual flaps would not have solved the problem. It seems to me that you either have to remove them altogether and hope for the best or go for a replacement upgraded manifold if you can run to it. regards tony


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    #11
    mark085
    Registered Users Posts: 144 ✭✭mark085


    quarryman wrote: »
    I took them out of my 02 mondeo when they started getting a bit rattley at 100k.

    Took me about 3-4 hours start to finish I think.

    I haven't noticed any i'll affects since and no longer have to worry about them getting chewed up in the engine.

    I'm very glad I didn't go spending 300 euro plus on the part plus labour.

    Send me pm if you want any info/advice on carrying out the removal.

    would you have any advice for me i want them removed but wouldn't be able to do it myself how costly would this be?


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    #12
    quarryman
    Registered Users Posts: 7,496 ✭✭✭quarryman


    mark085 wrote: »
    would you have any advice for me i want them removed but wouldn't be able to do it myself how costly would this be?

    Give a local independent mechanic a call and tell him what you want. It shouldn't be any more than 3 hours for them, around €200 I would have thought. Ford might try tell you you need to replace the manifold but I drove mine for about 2-3 years after i took out the butterfly flaps without any issues.


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    #13
    snowman707
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,279 ✭✭✭snowman707


    sorry to raise an old thread

    would these flaps be a issue on a 2006 1.8 model mondeo, also would anyone know does the 1.8 petrol have a DMF

    thanks in advance


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    #14
    flyingsnail
    Registered Users Posts: 2,752 ✭✭✭flyingsnail


    snowman707 wrote: »
    sorry to raise an old thread

    would these flaps be a issue on a 2006 1.8 model mondeo, also would anyone know does the 1.8 petrol have a DMF

    thanks in advance

    It is less common but not unknown on later model mk 3 for the swirl flaps to fail. And as far as I know it does have a dmf.


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    #15
    bazz26
    Registered Users Posts: 51,205 ✭✭✭✭bazz26


    I think it was only a problem on 01 to 03 engines. From late 2003 they started using a Mazda engine afaik.


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    #16
    snowman707
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,279 ✭✭✭snowman707


    flyingsnail wrote: »
    It is less common but not unknown on later model mk 3 for the swirl flaps to fail. And as far as I know it does have a dmf.
    bazz26 wrote: »
    I think it was only a problem on 01 to 03 engines. From late 2003 they started using a Mazda engine afaik.


    OK thanks, a fellow that is immigrating next month is selling the car, 1 owner since new, my nephew is interested in the car & asked me to have a look at it.


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    #17
    Leonard Hofstadter
    Registered Users Posts: 5,540 ✭✭✭Leonard Hofstadter


    Apparently when they facelifted the car in 2003 they sorted out that problem (they redesigned the swirl flaps at that time). If it were me though, I'd still be getting rid of them.

    They're a reliable car once the flaps are taken out!


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    #18
    casey68
    Registered Users Posts: 4 ✭casey68


    Finally found the proceedure. Diagram with step by step in Ford Wiki

    http://www.fordwiki.co.uk/index.php?title=Intake_Manifold_Removal

    Hope this helps someone.
    Cheers anyways Quarryman, I found this minutes after I PM'd you for the proceedure, but any further advice appreciated anyroad.

    Casey


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    #19
    casey68
    Registered Users Posts: 4 ✭casey68


    Help.
    "Initialize" door window motors...

    Plus: Once read somewhere about another fiddly thing to turn ignition key to position 2 - do not start motor - and leave for 10mins for ECU to 're-learn'.

    Plus: Install new gaskets sounds easy, but any tips?

    Cheers.


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    #20
    quarryman
    Registered Users Posts: 7,496 ✭✭✭quarryman


    casey68 wrote: »
    Help.
    "Initialize" door window motors...

    Plus: Once read somewhere about another fiddly thing to turn ignition key to position 2 - do not start motor - and leave for 10mins for ECU to 're-learn'.

    Plus: Install new gaskets sounds easy, but any tips?

    Cheers.

    Don't mind any of that. I did none of it. It's purely a mechanical procedure. Take out the manifold, remove the swirl flaps, replace the manifold.


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    #21
    casey68
    Registered Users Posts: 4 ✭casey68


    How in god's name do you get the swirl flap rod out?

    I have the manifold off after much patience with the different ways electrical connections are made to release and now the rod will NOT come out using long nosed pliers.

    Story?

    PS Taking the seven bolts out that secure the manifold was pretty easy.

    You can actually (with some light shining and lots of peering) see all seven bolts.

    Once you know where they are its a mix and match with extensions and a ten mil socket and off you go.

    ONE THING TO NOTE:
    Everytime you make up a configuration of ratchet, ext. bar, adapter and socket, Wrap insulation tape around the joints so the extension bar/adapter/socket can't come loose and fall down where it might be hard to retrieve.
    Pain in the butt without insulation tape already on when this happened to me, so fore-warned folks, save yourself bit of bother.

    Not stopping now since Ive the manifold off but could use any pointers in how to remove the flaps/rod without greaking them and worrying about them falling into manifold
    Thanks


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    #22
    quarryman
    Registered Users Posts: 7,496 ✭✭✭quarryman


    I took the manifold out completely then hacksawed/jig-sawed the rod into pieces and took it out. I guess I just took my frustration out on it :)

    Bit of a gamble if it caused running problems after I put the manifold back because that rod was going nowhere after I was done with it!


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