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An analysis of the 2009/2010 cold spell

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  • 14-01-2010 12:06am
    #1
    Su Campu
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,279 ✭✭✭


    It's interesting to see where the recent cold spell came from - what caused the pattern change, and why it hung around for so long.

    November was a record month for rainfall, with widespread flooding in the western half of the country later on in the month. Ireland was bombarded day after day by low pressure systems fed in on a persistent southwesterly airflow. This was the result of a vast area of low pressure near Iceland, causing the jetstream to position itself over northwestern Europe, ensuring that we were in the firing line for anything it produced.

    Rrea00120091118.gif

    The constant feed of warm southwesterlies eventually led to the formation of an anticyclone over southern Europe early in December, which moved northwestwards towards Iceland towards mid month. This shoved the Iceland low westwards towards northern Canada, and at the same time fed a cold Russian airmass southwestwards over Iberia, leading to the formation of a cut-off low near the Azores. This flip in the pattern (Icelandic High, Azores Low, ie. Negative NAO (North Atlantic Oscillation)) led to the start of the northeasterly feed of cold Arctic airmass towards northwestern Europe. It was consolidated by the strong southerly flow in the western Atlantic feeding high geopotentials to the Icelandic high, strengthening it and expanding it over Greenland.

    Rrea00120091218.gif


    In the week before Christmas, the first taste of winter hit the northwestern half of the country, as an Artcic blast from the Norwegian Sea fed snow showers to many areas, marking the start of several weeks of hardship for the likes of Graces7, and many like her.

    Rrea00120091221.gif

    Then we had the famous "Wet-bulb Wednesday" on the 29th, when thousands of boardies followed the movement of a low pressure system moving up from our south, hoping in vain for it to dump a load of snow over the whole country. While there were decent falls in western parts (Galway, Clare, Tipp) and in many other areas on higher ground, for most on low ground it turned into nothing more than a wet, windy mess. :rolleyes:

    Rrea00120091229.gif


    Two days later and the winds turned northesterly, giving revellers the chance of a drunken New Years snowball fight with several cms of snow falling in Dublin and the east coast.

    Rtavn00220100101.png


    In the days that followed the cold northeasterlies continued, with the occasional idiot :o predicting the formation if a polar low or two near Norway. It never happened of course, but as H850 and H500 temperatures reached rare low values, the unstable northeasterly generated a potent Irish Sea trof on the 7th, which crippled Dublin city, and dumped several cms of snow on the majority of Leinster and on into eastern Munster.

    Rtavn00220100107.png


    With the fresh snow cover, temperatures in the east fell to rare low values, with Villain's station in Tullow recording a low of -17.7°C on the morning of the 9th, and many other areas falling below -10°C on the 9th and 10th. Maxima were well below zero for much of the east

    With the Greenland High joining forces with the Scandi High by the end of the week, a cold easterly fed the last blast of frigid airmass westwards towards northwestern Europe for the weekend, cutting off a low over the Mediterranean. A shortwave trof on this cutoff low pushed a line of snow showers westwards across the country on Saturday, and hung around to feed energy to the upper warm front on Sunday, generating widespread snowfall to many areas, apart from the east and southeast coastal counties, where a warming was beginning to take place, signalling the first signs of a thaw late Sunday and Monday.

    A rapidly deepening storm system passed to the west of the country on Tuesday, bringing with it strong southerly winds and widespread precipitation, falling as sleet and snow above around 400ft. Cork Airport had 17 hours of continuous snowfall, which closed it for several hours. The occluded front from this system dragged it heels as it came up against the cold air to the east, and has only really cleared the country this evening, officially signing off a memorable spell of both weather and hardship.

    We're now back in a more recognisable Atlantic setup, with the Scandi High still not a million miles away, but with strong baroclinicity in the Atlantic and the Iceland Low/Azores High pattern back in place, it's possible we could be in this regime for a while to come.

    That is unless we get fed something cold, from Russia with love :D


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    #2
    greysides
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 8,978 Mod ✭✭✭✭greysides


    Would an analysis of the performance of the different models be useful for the future?

    The aim of argument, or of discussion, should not be victory, but progress. Joseph Joubert

    The ultimate purpose of debate is not to produce consensus. It's to promote critical thinking.

    Adam Grant



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    #3
    opr
    Registered Users Posts: 8,267 ✭✭✭opr


    Awesome post. Thanks for taking the time to do this.

    Opr


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    #4
    WolfeIRE
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,667 ✭✭✭WolfeIRE


    opr wrote: »
    Awesome post. Thanks for taking the time to do this.

    Opr
    +1 well done Su. Nice one for the archives so we can contrast and compare for future events.

    Great suggestion from greysides too. Would be a hell of a lot of work to do a definitive analysis of all models over four weeks though.


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    #5
    nacho libre
    Registered Users Posts: 16,677 ✭✭✭✭nacho libre


    An excellent analysis overall, but I think it should be pointed out that yesterday's system gave prolonged snowfall to several areas well below 400ft. Sorry if that seems like i'm nitpicking. It's not my intention.


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    #6
    snow ghost
    Registered Users Posts: 1,379 ✭✭✭snow ghost


    nacho libre wrote: »
    An excellent analysis overall, but I think it should be pointed out that yesterday's system gave prolonged snowfall to several areas well below 400ft. Sorry if that seems like i'm nitpicking. It's not my intention.

    Good point Nacho... and not just below 400ft, but at sea level on the Atlantic coast (well a bay off the Atlantic, but ye know what I mean)... not something many, if any, foresaw.


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    #7
    M.T. Cranium
    Registered Users Posts: 14,376 ✭✭✭✭M.T. Cranium


    A really useful summary of a very unusual stretch of weather (in recent years, anyway).

    I felt that the models did quite well with some of the changes and details, but I didn't keep detailed notes on that. I've noticed that the GEM seems to be improving, and I'm not saying that for patriotic reasons, the GEM in previous winters tended to be too progressive (eastward moving of systems) against the consensus of all models, but occasionally would be odd man out, and right as well (very rarely). This winter it seems to have done as well as the two or three most consulted models in Europe.

    Most people who forecast regularly seem to prefer ECM over GFS and either rate UKMO equal to GFS or a bit higher or lower, but in the past three months I think I've come to see them all as a blur together with the GEM, if you took the consensus of all four of them, it might be optimal.

    As the ground in Ireland and the UK became snow-covered and frozen to a fairly wide extent, the usual rules about thickness and snowfall started to change a bit towards the higher thickness parameters normally used in more continental climates. In other words, the maritime influence weakened somewhat. But not enough to prevent the Sunday-Monday situation from being very closely connected to slight changes in thickness, as higher values were advected from east to west, pushing the coldest air and snow into western Ireland. For future reference, be wary of snowfall forecasts when thicknesses fail to "go blue" or "stay blue" or hit sub-528 dm. (Some readers will know this, but I should mention, it's common to find some people confusing height and thickness, heights only correlate weakly with precip phase, thickness correlates much better). Normally over snow-free Ireland or UK winter surfaces, 528 dm thickness isn't nearly good enough for snow, you like to see sub-522 dm and even then the nearby ocean can spoil things.

    However, in continental climates like say Kansas or such, the rain-snow dividing line can often be well up around 534 dm and in a rapidly developing east coast storm it can go up over 540 dm briefly. That "grey zone" on the GEM maps is meant to show the "thickness ribbon" of transition, 534-540 dm, that's the second green contour on the GFS outside the blues. It's the one you've been in for a couple of days recently. As you can see, when all is set up to perfection, it can snow at these higher thickness values, especially at any significant elevation.

    There are a lot of system-specific rules or guidelines that I could get into in some other thread, if people are into it.


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    #8
    Su Campu
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,279 ✭✭✭Su Campu


    snow ghost wrote: »
    Good point Nacho... and not just below 400ft, but at sea level on the Atlantic coast (well a bay off the Atlantic, but ye know what I mean)... not something many, if any, foresaw.

    Fair enough, maybe there was, but going on the official synop reports for Tuesday it was pretty much rain or sleet for all Met Eireann stations, with just the odd brief flurry between the rain at some stations.

    http://www.ogimet.com/cgi-bin/gsynres?lang=en&state=Irel&osum=no&fmt=html&ord=REV&ano=2010&mes=01&day=12&hora=23&ndays=1&Send=send

    Not exactly a widespread snow event going on that data!

    For reference:
    Gurteen (71m/232ft)
    Sherkin Island (near sea level??)
    Oak Park - 63m (203ft)
    Casement Aerodrome (97m/325ft)
    Mullingar (101m/331ft)
    Connaugt Airport (203m/665ft)

    Regarding the performace of the models, I don't have any proper comparison, though I did notice that the GFS overdid the snow forecasts more than the NAE. It's a good idea though, and one we should try to get a handle on the next time....whenever that will be ;)


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    #9
    nacho libre
    Registered Users Posts: 16,677 ✭✭✭✭nacho libre


    Su Campu wrote: »
    Fair enough, maybe there was, but going on the official synop reports for Tuesday it was pretty much rain or sleet for all Met Eireann stations, with just the odd brief flurry between the rain at some stations.

    http://www.ogimet.com/cgi-bin/gsynres?lang=en&state=Irel&osum=no&fmt=html&ord=REV&ano=2010&mes=01&day=12&hora=23&ndays=1&Send=send

    Not exactly a widespread snow event going on that data!

    For reference:
    Gurteen (71m/232ft)
    Sherkin Island (near sea level??)
    Oak Park - 63m (203ft)
    Casement Aerodrome (97m/325ft)
    Mullingar (101m/331ft)
    Connaugt Airport (203m/665ft)

    )

    No one is suggesting it was a widespread snow event, just that snow fell in several places, in the midlands and further west, that were well below 400ft.
    Tuesday's rather localised snowfall also demonstrates that the data from the met eireann stations doesn't always reveal the full story of the weather conditions on a particular day. It also shows how tricky a nationwide forecast can be in these situations . Met Eireann got it wrong on tuesday when they said it would be snow and sleet that would turn back to rain. However, the eagle was spot on, on Monday, when he said it would get less cold as the week went on and by Friday it would be much milder.


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    #10
    Deep Easterly
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,150 ✭✭✭Deep Easterly


    nacho libre wrote: »
    No one is suggesting it was a widespread snow event, just that snow fell in several places, in the midlands and further west, that were well below 400ft.
    Tuesday's rather localised snowfall also demonstrates that the data from the met eireann stations doesn't always reveal the full story of the weather conditions on a particular day. It also shows how tricky a nationwide forecast can be in these situations . Met Eireann got it wrong on tuesday when they said it would be snow and sleet that would turn back to rain. However, the eagle was spot on, on Monday, when he said it would get less cold as the week went on and by Friday it would be much milder.

    Indeed Nacho. Looking at the satellites today it would seem there was a good and widespread covering in parts of the west/NW and parts of the midlands/Ulster due to tuesday's event. I agree, met eireann "official" reports don't suggest this as stations are sparsely located, esp in the regions that did get the snow. (ie, the NW, but sure what do they matter)

    Are events like this to be discounted simply because they are not officially recorded? Who decides what is official in the first place? Is officialdom the preserve of the those who decide what it is?


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    #11
    snow ghost
    Registered Users Posts: 1,379 ✭✭✭snow ghost


    Deep Easterly wrote: »
    Indeed Nacho. Looking at the satellites today it would seem there was a good and widespread covering in parts of the west/NW and parts of the midlands/Ulster due to tuesday's event. I agree, met eireann "official" reports don't suggest this as stations are sparsely located, esp in the regions that did get the snow. (ie, the NW, but sure what do they matter)

    Are events like this to be discounted simply because they are not officially recorded? Who decides what is official in the first place? Is officialdom the preserve of the those who decide what it is?

    I agree with you Deep Easterly and Nacho on these points.

    One of my biggest gripes is that - and correct me if I'm wrong - here in Mayo the weather stations are in Belmullet and at Knock Airport... both of which have distincitive micro climates very different from the rest of the county and they are certainly not representative of the rest of the county.

    1) Belmullet is located on a penninsula which is essentially almost an island in the Atlantic and is influenced much more by the Atlantic than a few miles away or most of the county.

    2) Knock AIrport is essentially built on a bog "on the side of a mountain" as many locals say, and is equally not representative.

    Anyone who knows these locations are very aware of the different weather that affects them compared to much of the rest of the county.

    I've lost count of times I've driven from pure cloudless sky & bright sunshine Westport to a rainy and windy Belmullet. Belmullet's weather is probably only representative for the weater on Achill island which is very similar. Likewise ask anyone about the fog at Knock airport.

    I'm certain that Met Eireann give much of the weather - especially in the summer - for Mayo based on analysis from Belmullet.

    In the summer when Met Eireann predict rain for Mayo it is often pure sunshine all day... not in Belmullet though where it is probably raining.


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    #12
    Deep Easterly
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,150 ✭✭✭Deep Easterly


    snow ghost wrote: »
    I agree with you Deep Easterly and Nacho on these points.

    One of my biggest gripes is that - and correct me if I'm wrong - here in Mayo the weather stations are in Belmullet and at Knock Airport... both of which have distincitive micro climates very different from the rest of the county and they are certainly not representative of the rest of the county.

    1) Belmullet is located on a penninsula which is essentially almost an island in the Atlantic and is influenced much more by the Atlantic than a few miles away or most of the county.

    2) Knock AIrport is essentially built on a bog "on the side of a mountain" as many locals say, and is equally not representative.

    Anyone who knows these locations are very aware of the different weather that affects them compared to much of the rest of the county.

    I've lost count of times I've driven from pure cloudless sky & bright sunshine Westport to a rainy and windy Belmullet. Belmullet's weather is probably only representative for the weater on Achill island which is very similar. Likewise ask anyone about the fog at Knock airport.

    I'm certain that Met Eireann give much of the weather - especially in the summer - for Mayo based on analysis from Belmullet.

    In the summer when Met Eireann predict rain for Mayo it is often pure sunshine all day... not in Belmullet though where it is probably raining.

    Yep Snow Ghost. They do also have a station in Claremorris which represents the inland Mayo and north Galway climate better, but of course it is one of the stations that does not report or record weather conditions. "N/A" is what we get here.


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    #13
    snow ghost
    Registered Users Posts: 1,379 ✭✭✭snow ghost


    Su Campu wrote: »
    Fair enough, maybe there was, but going on the official synop reports for Tuesday it was pretty much rain or sleet for all Met Eireann stations, with just the odd brief flurry between the rain at some stations.

    http://www.ogimet.com/cgi-bin/gsynres?lang=en&state=Irel&osum=no&fmt=html&ord=REV&ano=2010&mes=01&day=12&hora=23&ndays=1&Send=send

    Not exactly a widespread snow event going on that data!

    For reference:
    Gurteen (71m/232ft)
    Sherkin Island (near sea level??)
    Oak Park - 63m (203ft)
    Casement Aerodrome (97m/325ft)
    Mullingar (101m/331ft)
    Connaugt Airport (203m/665ft)

    Regarding the performace of the models, I don't have any proper comparison, though I did notice that the GFS overdid the snow forecasts more than the NAE. It's a good idea though, and one we should try to get a handle on the next time....whenever that will be ;)

    Su Campu,

    Knock Airport reported 'moderate snow' for many of its hourly reports on Tuesday.

    That aside there was persistant snow here at sea level for hours on end on Tuesday.

    Btw Thank you for your overall analysis of the cold spell - it's very interesting. :)


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    #14
    nacho libre
    Registered Users Posts: 16,677 ✭✭✭✭nacho libre


    snow ghost wrote: »
    I agree with you Deep Easterly and Nacho on these points.

    One of my biggest gripes is that - and correct me if I'm wrong - here in Mayo the weather stations are in Belmullet and at Knock Airport... both of which have distincitive micro climates very different from the rest of the county and they are certainly not representative of the rest of the county.

    1) Belmullet is located on a penninsula which is essentially almost an island in the Atlantic and is influenced much more by the Atlantic than a few miles away or most of the county.

    2) Knock AIrport is essentially built on a bog "on the side of a mountain" as many locals say, and is equally not representative.

    Anyone who knows these locations are very aware of the different weather that affects them compared to much of the rest of the county.

    I've lost count of times I've driven from pure cloudless sky & bright sunshine Westport to a rainy and windy Belmullet. Belmullet's weather is probably only representative for the weater on Achill island which is very similar. Likewise ask anyone about the fog at Knock airport.

    I'm certain that Met Eireann give much of the weather - especially in the summer - for Mayo based on analysis from Belmullet.

    In the summer when Met Eireann predict rain for Mayo it is often pure sunshine all day... not in Belmullet though where it is probably raining.

    heh very true about Belmullet. Although i do remember a couple of years ago being there when it was raining everywhere else in Mayo and in Ireland. Belmullet, as it said on the met eireann broadcast that night, was the only place in the country that was fine and it recorded a temperature of 25c. it was interesting to be there that day because the sky overhead was clear, yet a couple of miles further to the west there was sea fog, then just 10- 20 miles further east it was raining. Belmullet stayed in a rain shield all that day.


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    #15
    nacho libre
    Registered Users Posts: 16,677 ✭✭✭✭nacho libre


    Deep Easterly wrote: »
    Indeed Nacho. Looking at the satellites today it would seem there was a good and widespread covering in parts of the west/NW and parts of the midlands/Ulster due to tuesday's event. I agree, met eireann "official" reports don't suggest this as stations are sparsely located, esp in the regions that did get the snow. (ie, the NW, but sure what do they matter)

    Are events like this to be discounted simply because they are not officially recorded? Who decides what is official in the first place? Is officialdom the preserve of the those who decide what it is?

    indeed.
    naturally a noteworthy event in your own area will bring out a bit of tribalism..;) but seriously much like villian's low temperature value, it's a pity that if isn't officially recorded it doesn't then exist as official data for people to look back on when studying this cold spell.


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    #16
    snow ghost
    Registered Users Posts: 1,379 ✭✭✭snow ghost


    nacho libre wrote: »
    heh very true about Belmullet. Although i do remember a couple of years ago being there when it was raining everywhere else in Mayo and in Ireland. Belmullet, as it said on the met eireann broadcast that night, was the only place in the country that was fine and it recorded a temperature of 25c. it was interesting to be there that day because the sky overhead was clear, yet a couple of miles further to the west there was sea fog, then just 10- 20 miles further east it was raining. Belmullet stayed in a rain shield all that day.

    That'd be about right Nacho, for Belmullet, I've only been there once when it was pure sunshine and it was dull, overcast and raining in Westport all day at the same time. Usually if it is wet and windy in Westport, it will be a hurricane in Belmullet.

    The best one ever I heard from Met Eireann was a few years back when they infamously forecast the heavy snow for Mayo and Donegal that never came. I drove up to Belmullet that day and back and on one of the main national radio stations - that presumably got its weather info from Met Eireann (?) -they were constantly reporting that there was 2 foot of snow in Mayo... there hadn't even been a snowflake, there wasn't even a bit of white on any of the North Mayo Mountains.

    I can't even blame Belmullet for that one as there was no snow there either... but admittedly I didn't go further than the town, so there could have been a blizzard just over the weather station, but I doubt it!


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    #17
    Su Campu
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,279 ✭✭✭Su Campu


    snow ghost wrote: »
    Su Campu,

    Knock Airport reported 'moderate snow' for many of its hourly reports on Tuesday.

    :)

    Of course, but it's at 665ft!

    I agree about the coverage of the stations, they don't tell the whole story, but to listen to some people (not necessarily on here) you'd think the whole country had been blanketed.


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    #18
    Deep Easterly
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,150 ✭✭✭Deep Easterly


    Su Campu wrote: »
    to listen to some people (not necessarily on here) you'd think the whole country had been blanketed.

    No one is suggesting it was a countrywide event, but many parts of the country did see many hours of snow on Tuesday. Even here in Galway it snowed for about 6 hours, with even longer spells reported further north and east. A little bit more than can be classed as 'fleeting'.


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    #19
    Mobhi1
    Registered Users Posts: 1,685 ✭✭✭Mobhi1


    M.T. Cranium wrote: »
    There are a lot of system-specific rules or guidelines that I could get into in some other thread, if people are into it.

    I'd be into it for one, M.T. I'd be surprised if there weren't a lot of others on here interested as well. :)


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    #20
    Mobhi1
    Registered Users Posts: 1,685 ✭✭✭Mobhi1


    snow ghost wrote: »
    I agree with you Deep Easterly and Nacho on these points.

    One of my biggest gripes is that - and correct me if I'm wrong - here in Mayo the weather stations are in Belmullet and at Knock Airport... both of which have distincitive micro climates very different from the rest of the county and they are certainly not representative of the rest of the county.

    1) Belmullet is located on a penninsula which is essentially almost an island in the Atlantic and is influenced much more by the Atlantic than a few miles away or most of the county.

    2) Knock AIrport is essentially built on a bog "on the side of a mountain" as many locals say, and is equally not representative.

    Anyone who knows these locations are very aware of the different weather that affects them compared to much of the rest of the county.

    I've lost count of times I've driven from pure cloudless sky & bright sunshine Westport to a rainy and windy Belmullet. Belmullet's weather is probably only representative for the weater on Achill island which is very similar. Likewise ask anyone about the fog at Knock airport.

    I'm certain that Met Eireann give much of the weather - especially in the summer - for Mayo based on analysis from Belmullet.

    In the summer when Met Eireann predict rain for Mayo it is often pure sunshine all day... not in Belmullet though where it is probably raining.

    At least you have 2 (or 3 if you include Claremorris) - there's not many counties can claim that - although thinking about it, Cork has 3 - Cork AP, Sherkin and Roches Pt - but none of them particularly representative of most of County Cork either, and Dublin has Casement and Dublin AP.


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    #21
    snow ghost
    Registered Users Posts: 1,379 ✭✭✭snow ghost


    Su Campu wrote: »
    Fair enough, maybe there was, but going on the official synop reports for Tuesday it was pretty much rain or sleet for all Met Eireann stations, with just the odd brief flurry between the rain at some stations.

    http://www.ogimet.com/cgi-bin/gsynres?lang=en&state=Irel&osum=no&fmt=html&ord=REV&ano=2010&mes=01&day=12&hora=23&ndays=1&Send=send

    Not exactly a widespread snow event going on that data!

    For reference:
    Gurteen (71m/232ft)
    Sherkin Island (near sea level??)
    Oak Park - 63m (203ft)
    Casement Aerodrome (97m/325ft)
    Mullingar (101m/331ft)
    Connaugt Airport (203m/665ft)

    Regarding the performace of the models, I don't have any proper comparison, though I did notice that the GFS overdid the snow forecasts more than the NAE. It's a good idea though, and one we should try to get a handle on the next time....whenever that will be ;)


    Su Campu,

    I'm aware of Knock Airport's elevation, as I mentioned earlier it was built 'on the side of a mountain' as some locals say.

    The reason I mentioned the regular moderate snow reports there on Tusday was because you used it as an example - as can be seen in your post above for connaught airport and you said "it was pretty much rain or sleet for all Met Eireann stations".

    You're right in that it wasn't a wide spread snow event, countrywide, however on a regional basis it was fairly widespread.

    The crux of all this is just how unrepresentative Met Eireanns stations are and if you are in a different part of the country, you mightn't be aware of what is actually happening - or has happened - in other parts, going on Met Eireann data.


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    #22
    snow ghost
    Registered Users Posts: 1,379 ✭✭✭snow ghost


    Mobhi1 wrote: »
    At least you have 2 (or 3 if you include Claremorris) - there's not many counties can claim that - although thinking about it, Cork has 3 - Cork AP, Sherkin and Roches Pt - but none of them particularly representative of most of County Cork either, and Dublin has Casement and Dublin AP.

    Mobhi,

    True, perhaps it's because it's the third largest county by area (Cork is the largest). In Comparison Dublin is the thrid smallest county by area, it's approx. a sixth of the size of Mayo.


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    #23
    Deep Easterly
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,150 ✭✭✭Deep Easterly


    snow ghost wrote: »
    Mobhi,

    True, perhaps it's because it's the third largest county by area (Cork is the largest). In Comparison Dublin is the thrid smallest county by area, it's approx. a sixth of the size of Mayo.

    Just reading this make me feel even more hard done by! :o

    Galway is the 2nd biggest county in the country and has only one station (which is just a recent addition) representing it on the daily reports. Mace Head, on the far west coast. Certainly does not represent the climate here in East Galway which is way different on a daily, monthly and yearly basis. I agree for the size of Dublin (county) it has a disproportionate high representation synoptic station wise.

    I have noticed that it is not only the west and northwest that is poorly represented, but also the SE, areas such as Waterford, Wexford and Wicklow. The hourly reports on the met.ie web represent very little of what is going on weatherwise in the country.


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    #24
    snow ghost
    Registered Users Posts: 1,379 ✭✭✭snow ghost


    Deep Easterly wrote: »
    Just reading this make me feel even more hard done by! :o

    Galway is the 2nd biggest county in the country and has only one station (which is just a recent addition) representing it on the daily reports. Mace Head, on the far west coast. Certainly does not represent the climate here in East Galway which is way different on a daily, monthly and yearly basis. I agree for the size of Dublin (county) it has a disproportionate high representation synoptic station wise.

    I have noticed that it is not only the west and northwest that is poorly represented, but also the SE, areas such as Waterford, Wexford and Wicklow. The hourly reports on the met.ie web represent very little of what is going on weatherwise in the country.

    Deep,

    I think that one in Galway should be moved to Westport. :p

    On a serious note, it would be good if Met Eireann had regional centres, in the main cities of the provinces analysing the provincial weather. I.e Galway for the West. Obviously resource wise this may not be viable, but it would be good.


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    #25
    Deep Easterly
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,150 ✭✭✭Deep Easterly


    snow ghost wrote: »
    Deep,

    I think that one in Galway should be moved to Westport. :p

    On a serious note, it would be good if Met Eireann had regional centres, in the main cities of the provinces analysing the provincial weather. I.e Galway for the West. Obviously resource wise this may not be viable, but it would be good.

    I agree. It is a good idea. Resourse wise as you say would be a problem but given that they are the national met service, I am sure they could speak up to the relevant departments for more dosh!


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    #26
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Good analysis there su campu!

    Meanwhile during the spell it was a bit artic up at mount leinster aswell on the carlow wexford border!

    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=64032582&postcount=30


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    #27
    octo
    Registered Users Posts: 321 ✭✭octo


    nacho libre wrote: »
    indeed.
    naturally a noteworthy event in your own area will bring out a bit of tribalism..;) but seriously much like villian's low temperature value, it's a pity that if isn't officially recorded it doesn't then exist as official data for people to look back on when studying this cold spell.
    Current Climatalogical stations:
    WebClimMap1.gif


    Rainfall Stations:
    WebRainMap3.gif


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    #28
    nacho libre
    Registered Users Posts: 16,677 ✭✭✭✭nacho libre


    octo wrote: »
    Current Climatalogical stations:
    WebClimMap1.gif


    Rainfall Stations:
    WebRainMap3.gif

    so villian's temperature will be officially recognised, then.
    is that what you're trying to tell me?
    or you are disputing my assertion that met eireann stations do not always reveal the full picture weather-wise. i presume that's your motivation in posting those two charts.

    to repeat it once more for you octo: snow fell at sea level in several areas in the midlands and west last Tuesday. su campu was suggesting snow fell only at 400ft and then referenced met eireann stations to back up his assertion that snow was not widespread. In other words if met eireann stations didn't record snow then it can't have snowed in too many areas.
    yet as was pointed out to him several times no one was claiming that snowfall was widespread, rather that snow fell at sea level in the west and the midlands despite what the met eireann stations recorded.

    so basicially their stations around the country did not tell the full story of that day's weather.


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    #29
    Deep Easterly
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,150 ✭✭✭Deep Easterly


    Would be great if all those stations on the maps posted above were reporting hourly on the met eireann site with daily assessments on the "Yesterday's Weather page". Even still, looks like my area is probably the most unrepresented area in the country regarding both the climatological and rainfall station distribution. I wonder is there a reason the east Galway region is left out?


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    #30
    octo
    Registered Users Posts: 321 ✭✭octo


    nacho libre wrote: »
    so villian's temperature will be officially recognised, then.
    is that what you're trying to tell me?
    or you are disputing my assertion that met eireann stations do not always reveal the full picture weather-wise. i presume that's your motivation in posting those two charts.

    to repeat it once more for you octo: snow fell at sea level in several areas in the midlands and west last Tuesday. su campu was suggesting snow fell only at 400ft and then referenced met eireann stations to back up his assertion that snow was not widespread. In other words if met eireann stations didn't record snow then it can't have snowed in too many areas.
    yet as was pointed out to him several times no one was claiming that snowfall was widespread, rather that snow fell at sea level in the west and the midlands despite what the met eireann stations recorded.

    so basicially their stations around the country did not tell the full story of that day's weather.
    Sorry, I should have explained. I`m saying that there`s much more to the official record, particularly with regard to max and min temperatures and rainfall, than the hourly reports on the website. But the point about snow is a good one. Now that the manned stations are closing, there are very few ways of recording snowfalls (the snow reports from automatic stations are unreliable).
    Deep Easterly wrote: »
    Would be great if all those stations on the maps posted above were reporting hourly on the met eireann site with daily assessments on the "Yesterday's Weather page". Even still, looks like my area is probably the most unrepresented area in the country regarding both the climatological and rainfall station distribution. I wonder is there a reason the east Galway region is left out?
    I`d say they just don`t have any volunteers to do it. AFAIK, they`re grateful for anyone who`ll help out. It needs someone who can make a long-term commitment to go out every day 365 at 9 UTC and take rainfall and max/min readings.


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    #31
    snow ghost
    Registered Users Posts: 1,379 ✭✭✭snow ghost


    octo wrote: »
    Now that the manned stations are closing, there are very few ways of recording snowfalls (the snow reports from automatic stations are unreliable).

    Octo,

    When you say that the manned stations are closing, do you mean they are closing or they are going to be automated?

    Is that all manned stations or just some of them?

    I presume this is as a result of recent government cut backs?


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