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DCU Animated films (including Green Lantern:First Flight)

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  • 20-07-2009 5:28pm
    #1
    Fysh
    Moderators, Arts Moderators, Regional Abroad Moderators Posts: 11,024 Mod ✭✭✭✭


    I thought that the upcoming launch of Green Lantern: First Flight would be as good an excuse as any to discuss the recent DCU animated films, and possibly also the Marvel ones.

    I've seen Superman: Doomsday and Justice League: New Frontier. I thought New Frontier was pretty good, in no small part down to the story it's based on. The fight at the end feels a tiny bit crowbarred-in, in the sense that the story could just as well have ended without a big brawl, but aside from that it was quite an entertaining watch.

    Superman: Doomsday was ok, but as with many Superman stories, it seems to assume that you are already invested in the character. It gets points for being less brain-bendingly rubbish in plot terms than the original comic saga was, but then again that's not too hard. (Plus the original Death Of Superman featured Mullet Superman, which is actually worse than cows-lick superman by a considerable margin).

    I'm in two minds about Green Lantern: First Flight - on the one hand it could be good, but on the other hand it's yet another DC character with little personality whose only appeal is his superhero persona. And given that the Green Lanterns are a bit silly, in my opinion (they get a ring that lets you enforce your will, and use it to create big green fly-swatters and fists to hit each other with? Give me a break!) I'm not sure I'm the target audience for this.

    Wonder Woman, on the other hand, I remain curious about. The character is a difficult sell - bikini-clad Amazonian warrior-princess/ambassador - but could be interesting with the right people in charge. Anybody seen this?


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    #2
    subedei
    Registered Users Posts: 208 ✭✭subedei


    I saw the wonder woman one, thought I would totally thrown off as it wouldnt be orientated towards men but it was fine, a general movie, aimed at everyone. Wasnt amazing but was ok, I enjoyed it, didnt make me cringe, laughed at times, tho I dont have that much familiarity with the character other than in other stories like JLA.

    New Fontier was good also I think, nice style. Havent seen Superman Doomsday I think. Liked the two Hulk versus, but as someone said here before they were really about wolverine and thor, which I liked, not a huge fan of the hulk. I remain open with the Green Lantern one, found most of the animated Marvel/DC I have seen so far, entertaining for the most part, not earth shattering tho. Think the batman ones were the best as they had real moments I can remember.


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    #3
    the_syco
    Registered Users Posts: 37,297 ✭✭✭✭the_syco


    http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1384590/

    ...and since it hasn't come out yet :rolleyes: this thread will just be talking about the sheer epicness of the film what I hope the film will contain ;)

    So... erm, yeah. Heavy use of the [spoiler] tags :P
    I'm thinking that it'll tell the story very well, showing the full history of the green lantern, how it came about, up to who made it, etc. Should be an epic film.

    I'd say there'll be a few twists, and as I never read the comic books, I say I'll be very entertained.


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    #4
    Fysh
    Moderators, Arts Moderators, Regional Abroad Moderators Posts: 11,024 Mod ✭✭✭✭Fysh


    I'm merging the GL:FF thread with the DCU Animated films thread so that we don't end up with a thread full of hypothetical discussion about a film which hasn't been released yet (but which appears to have travelled back in time onto the internets).

    That being said, I don't think there's been any European release scheduled (as is typical for DC's animated stuff, apparently our filthy non-US$ money just isn't good enough for them...).

    On a slightly different note, has anyone seen the Marvel animated Ultimate/Ultimate Avengers films? I've not bothered thus far, seem to recall comments about dumbing them down to make them kid-friendly. There's also an Avengers: Next animated film, I think, but I haven't seen that either...


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    #5
    the_syco
    Registered Users Posts: 37,297 ✭✭✭✭the_syco


    Fysh wrote: »
    On a slightly different note, has anyone seen the Marvel animated Ultimate/Ultimate Avengers films?
    No, but seems there are two of them.
    Fysh wrote: »
    I've not bothered thus far, seem to recall comments about dumbing them down to make them kid-friendly. There's also an Avengers: Next animated film, I think, but I haven't seen that either...
    "Next Avengers: Heroes of Tomorrow" is about the kids of the Avengers, it seems :/
    The film comes out in 2012.


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    #6
    shenanigans1982
    Registered Users Posts: 1,467 ✭✭✭shenanigans1982


    Fysh wrote: »

    On a slightly different note, has anyone seen the Marvel animated Ultimate/Ultimate Avengers films?

    Yes I have seen them....quite a while ago though. The first one is worth getting and actually follows the Ultimates first storyline....and aint too dumbed down. Second one has a completely new storyline featuring the Black Panther and should be avoided.


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    #7
    Fysh
    Moderators, Arts Moderators, Regional Abroad Moderators Posts: 11,024 Mod ✭✭✭✭Fysh


    I remember watching The Invincible Iron Man a while ago and being alternately impressed and disappointed. The animation and overall sophistication of the script was pretty good, but the storyline was a bit blah, basically updating the Mandarin to be some sort of dragon-thing.

    Wikipedia claims that Next Avengers was released last year, but frankly I'm not too interested given what it sounds like. I'm surprised they bothered with a Doctor Strange animated film though, because I have no idea who's the presumed audience for that. Do people still care about Doctor Strange?


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    #8
    subedei
    Registered Users Posts: 208 ✭✭subedei


    Fysh wrote: »
    ]Doctor Strange[/url] animated film though, because I have no idea who's the presumed audience for that. Do people still care about Doctor Strange?

    Actually the doctor strange one was much better than the Ironman one, think his character really works as well for anyone who doesnt read comics or is unfamiliar with the character, so I think he is a good character to make an animation for.

    Ultimates 1 was great, really liked that one, Ultimates 2 was a bit blah but id still watch it.


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    #9
    James Howlett
    Registered Users Posts: 1,599 ✭✭✭James Howlett


    The best DC Animated film was Batman: Beyond - Return of the Joker.

    It walks all over New Frontier, Superman: Doomsday etc. I'm not saying those were bad films, but they were only okay. This however is very, very good - I want to say more about it but the title says all you need to know... I'll put it ths way: it has a brilliant flashback sequence that captures everything the Joker should be.


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    #10
    Fysh
    Moderators, Arts Moderators, Regional Abroad Moderators Posts: 11,024 Mod ✭✭✭✭Fysh


    James Howlett wrote: »
    The best DC Animated film was Batman: Beyond - Return of the Joker.

    I can get behind this sentiment, I loved Batman: Beyond and was gutted they didn't make more seasons (though at least what they did make was all quality stuff). The film was excellent from start to finish and I think you're right, nothing since has reached the same heights, although I think New Frontier came closest.


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    #11
    James Howlett
    Registered Users Posts: 1,599 ✭✭✭James Howlett


    Yeah New Frontier is very good in many ways, especially the art and style. However it just doesn't have that many stand out scenes for me.

    Regarding Batman Beyond an epilogue to the series was made in the third season of the Justice League Animated series, you are probably aware of this but just in case its worth a look.


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    #12
    TheIrishGrover
    Registered Users Posts: 6,019 ✭✭✭TheIrishGrover


    All the series and the way they all kept pretty much to their own unified 'verse: Batman: TAS, Superman, Batman Beyond (I refuse to call it "Batman Of The Future". How long did it take to think that one up? the last episode of Justice League inwhich it tied in Batman TAS, JL and BB was awesome! I wasn't overly gone on the Superman Doomsday. Didn't like the redesign of the characters and voices. Wished they had stuck to the original voices. The WW film was actually pretty good with some pretty funny dialogue and the voice acting was pretty spot on (Esp Nathan Fillion). Looking forward to GL and aren't they doing a Superman/Batman one? Please PLEASE use the series voices (Could ANYBODY do the voice of Batman better than Kevin Conroy?)


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    #13
    herobear
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,554 ✭✭✭herobear


    Both GL and NF dvds are on their way too me.
    Seen GL:FF already, really enjoyed it but im currently really digging anything GL these days, blackest night and all, the music was a particular highlight for me.
    Super hyped for the live action movie now(especially with the casting of Ryan Reynolds).

    As for New Frontier, enjoyed the comics when they came out(apart from their price) so looking forward to seeing it.


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    #14
    Fysh
    Moderators, Arts Moderators, Regional Abroad Moderators Posts: 11,024 Mod ✭✭✭✭Fysh


    This seems as good a thread as any to put the following clips into (nabbed from this thread in the Anime & Manga forum):

    Marvel Animation: Iron Man teaser

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h_ej7ZlS2oQ


    Marvel Animation: Wolverine teaser

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lyy-KBFvKPg


    Personally, I don't get the point. This looks like the animated version of Marvel's mangaverse project from a while back, and holds about as much appeal - ie I don't get what the appeal is supposed to be for someone who doesn't already have some attachment to these characters.

    That being said, our Dark Lord Warren Ellis is involved (presumably on a scripting level) so there might be hope yet...


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    #15
    subedei
    Registered Users Posts: 208 ✭✭subedei


    They both look good as pieces of anime but not liking how the characters are portrayed, especially wolverine, looks nothing like the original character except the claws. Dont see the point of having an anime with these characters. Like I like some anime, even occassionally when its this type of anime (many better styles than this generic one) but wouldnt like to see western characters like this.


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    #16
    Fysh
    Moderators, Arts Moderators, Regional Abroad Moderators Posts: 11,024 Mod ✭✭✭✭Fysh


    So anyway, Green Lantern : First Flight - opinions?

    I wasn't overly impressed, to be honest - chiefly because it seemed to follow the typical DC thing of having superheroes whose only interesting aspect is their masked persona. I don't care about Hal Jordan, but I thought he was treated like a total Mary Sue in this -
    he quickly gets control of the ring without training such that he can resist detention by several GLC members, he on several occasions manages to beat more powerful opponents who have more experience at using the rings including doing so without his power ring at one stage
    . If the vital rule of writing is "show, don't tell", I felt this film spent its whole time telling me how cool Green Lantern Hal Jordan was, without ever demonstrating it.

    Favourite moment of the entire thing, though?
    When Jordan crashes two moons together (without checking for life signs on either of them, as far as I could tell) to crush Sinestro's Yellow Battery.
    I mean, seriously, WTF?


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    #17
    oxygen_old
    Closed Accounts Posts: 897 ✭✭✭oxygen_old


    I highly recommend Batman Gotham Nights. In the animatrix vain, its collected short stories with different animation studios in control. Some of them arent great but for the most part they are extremly good.

    In particular, the story of Bruce in India to learn pain management is really good. Worthy enough to be in the movie


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    #18
    Fysh
    Moderators, Arts Moderators, Regional Abroad Moderators Posts: 11,024 Mod ✭✭✭✭Fysh


    I found Gotham Knight really patchy, to be honest. I liked the idea but it just didn't work - between the notion of Bruce deciding not to use a bullet-deflecting shield (either for himself or as something to put on the market commercially) and the apparent existence of all these over-the-top villains that have no place in the Batman Begins/Dark Knight world, it just seems like too much of a "hey, let's get some more cash" venture to me.

    Taken on its own it's not so bad, but still significantly inferior to the rest of the Batman DC Animated Universe material.


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    #19
    Mr. K
    Registered Users Posts: 2,485 ✭✭✭Mr. K


    I've seen Gotham Knights and Superman Doomsday, really enjoyed both. GK felt a little patchy, but I loved the last part with
    Deadshot
    .


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    #20
    TheIrishGrover
    Registered Users Posts: 6,019 ✭✭✭TheIrishGrover


    Fysh wrote: »
    I found Gotham Knight really patchy, to be honest. I liked the idea but it just didn't work - between the notion of Bruce deciding not to use a bullet-deflecting shield (either for himself or as something to put on the market commercially) and the apparent existence of all these over-the-top villains that have no place in the Batman Begins/Dark Knight world, it just seems like too much of a "hey, let's get some more cash" venture to me.

    Taken on its own it's not so bad, but still significantly inferior to the rest of the Batman DC Animated Universe material.
    I didn't like it at all TBH. I didn't like the contrast between Kevin Conroy's voice and the anime styling. I was hoping that it would be like The Animatrix (I really enjoyed them and thought they actually added to the Matrix Universe) but it was just a cash in. Mask Of The Phantasm was probably my favourite (Followed by Return Of The Joker (Those Robin torture scenes were amazingly rough for a DC cartoon)


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    #21
    Mr. K
    Registered Users Posts: 2,485 ✭✭✭Mr. K


    I loved Mask of the Phantasm, as you can probably tell by my avatar!


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    #22
    oxygen_old
    Closed Accounts Posts: 897 ✭✭✭oxygen_old


    Sorry guys, I was going to leave this alone, but I really liked Gotham Knight, and thought it was very underrated.
    Fysh wrote: »
    I found Gotham Knight really patchy, to be honest.
    Mr. K wrote: »
    GK felt a little patchy,

    Hows it patchy, its 6 individual stories, by definition it should be patchier. Each story should be taken on its own merit, the first three interlink, and the second three interlink, making two stories with different animation and direction styles.
    Fysh wrote: »
    the notion of Bruce deciding not to use a bullet-deflecting shield (either for himself or as something to put on the market commercially)

    That was fairly well explained wasnt it? It would cause the possible deaths of innocents (or in this case other gansters)
    Fysh wrote: »
    and the apparent existence of all these over-the-top villains that have no place in the Batman Begins/Dark Knight world,

    I did think Deadshot was a bit over the top. I was glad to see Killer Croc done well in a Nolan style. Hey, its not cannon, but fun to see.
    TheIrishGrover wrote: »
    I didn't like the contrast between Kevin Conroy's voice and the anime styling.

    Got to disagree there buddy, his voice acting in "Working through the pain" in particular was excellent. The very last scene, where Alfred ask for his hand and he responds I cant, is the best emoting scene Ive seen from Kevin Conroy to date. I loved it, it was a leap from his previous work. I could not figure out which was better in that scene, the excellent facial animation, or voice acting.


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    #23
    Fysh
    Moderators, Arts Moderators, Regional Abroad Moderators Posts: 11,024 Mod ✭✭✭✭Fysh


    oxygen wrote: »
    Hows it patchy, its 6 individual stories, by definition it should be patchier. Each story should be taken on its own merit, the first three interlink, and the second three interlink, making two stories with different animation and direction styles.

    For me the difference in animation styles was less of a problem than the incongruity between writing styles. The stories just didn't feel like they were set in the same world, much less shared a common character.
    oxygen wrote: »
    That was fairly well explained wasnt it? It would cause the possible deaths of innocents (or in this case other gansters)

    There was an explanation, but it didn't ring true for me. Just because Batman can't use it to defend himself doesn't mean it couldn't have any number of other applications; quite aside from the question of why it couldn't be modified to just stop bullets dead instead of deflecting them (though that's more my inner sci-fi nerd demanding a logical consistency to these things, which might be going a bit far).
    oxygen wrote: »
    I did think Deadshot was a bit over the top. I was glad to see Killer Croc done well in a Nolan style. Hey, its not cannon, but fun to see.

    I don't remember Killer Croc's appearance but Deadshot was just ridiculous, the tone didn't fit at all. The recent Joker book had much more grounded (and for my money better) reimaginings of these villains as they might fit into Nolan's version of the Batman world.

    All in all I don't think the whole thing was terrible, just nothing like as good as I'd hoped it might be. I was going to eBay my copy but I might rewatch it first, see what I think of it now (I remember being sorely disappointed with it when I first picked it up and haven't watched it since).


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    #24
    James Howlett
    Registered Users Posts: 1,599 ✭✭✭James Howlett


    Finally got to see Green Lantern: First Flight.

    I liked it. The animation was top notch and the story kept it simple but interesting. One thing I didn't like was how Hal instantly knew how to use the ring. No trainning, no mistakes. That annoyed me a little but not too much.

    Sinistro was my favourite part. He was a good villian with decent motivation. Overall I would rate this above both New Frontier and Superman/ Doomsday.

    Do note I have yet to see Wonder Woman yet.


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    #25
    Professey Chin
    Registered Users Posts: 51,054 ✭✭✭✭Professey Chin


    Mask of the Phantasm is still my favourite.Especially the scene where
    he first puts on the cowl and the look on alfreds face


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    #26
    JohnMc1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,987 ✭✭✭JohnMc1


    Fysh wrote: »
    So anyway, Green Lantern : First Flight - opinions?

    I wasn't overly impressed, to be honest - chiefly because it seemed to follow the typical DC thing of having superheroes whose only interesting aspect is their masked persona. I don't care about Hal Jordan, but I thought he was treated like a total Mary Sue in this -
    he quickly gets control of the ring without training such that he can resist detention by several GLC members, he on several occasions manages to beat more powerful opponents who have more experience at using the rings including doing so without his power ring at one stage
    . If the vital rule of writing is "show, don't tell", I felt this film spent its whole time telling me how cool Green Lantern Hal Jordan was, without ever demonstrating it.

    Favourite moment of the entire thing, though?
    When Jordan crashes two moons together (without checking for life signs on either of them, as far as I could tell) to crush Sinestro's Yellow Battery.
    I mean, seriously, WTF?


    That bothered me too.Considering Hal is pretty much a Mary Sue in the comics now I'm not surprised they did that for the animated.


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