Where is terrestrial tv on my dm8000?

20/20 · 18-06-2009 7:49pm #1

The other day i bought a dm8000,and i installed a terrestrial tuner.After a scan the Irish tv and radio stations came up on the list of tuned stations,so i know they are there but now i cant find them to watch.On the satelite side I have Astra 19 and 28 plus hotbird which can be viewed no problem.So iam wondering can anybody please tell me exactly what buttons to push to find the Irish digital tv.This is my first Dreambox and it seems to be fantastic so far apart from this minor glitch,and the shop in Dublin where i paid nearly1200e say they dont know much about the terrestrial tuners(iam told this after the sale)

cormacl · 18-06-2009 11:55pm

I have a DM8000 with DTT tuner.. and am receiving DTT from 3-Rock..so I'll try to help.

Just to recreate your issue just now, I did a full rescan of the DTT services, selecting the clear option and like you found the services, but nothing got saved.. so it seems like a bug indeed. I'm using the latest Gemini s/w image v4.3.

But it worked before for me.. I had tuned the national 4 DTT services a good while back on mine and had not retuned since. So maybe this issue has been there for some time. Luckily I was able to recover from a backup.

One issue I was having for some time was with switching from sat to dtt services. I would get occasional tune failures when switching to a DTT service, only to fix the issue by switching back to a sat service, waiting 20+ seconds and then switching back to a DTT service. That issue has been fixed in the latest gemini image.

If you are able to telnet or ssh into your box, I could post the lamedb (service database) I have, which should give you these DTT services and all sat services I've tuned (13E/19E/28.2E). You could then stay clear of performing full rescans on the DTT stuff until this issue is fixed.

Advise if you can get telnet/ssh/ftp access to the receiver.. I can post the file and assist as required.

Apogee · 19-06-2009 1:34am

cormacl wrote: »

Just to recreate your issue just now, I did a full rescan of the DTT services, selecting the clear option and like you found the services, but nothing got saved.. so it seems like a bug indeed. I'm using the latest Gemini s/w image v4.3.

But it worked before for me.. I had tuned the national 4 DTT services a good while back on mine and had not retuned since. So maybe this issue has been there for some time.

This sounds similar to the problem people with Panasonic PZ81s are experiencing. RTÉNL have started flagging the channels as "advanced codec" services, and some receivers are unable to store them. However, I'd wager that the Dreambox is storing them but as data channels, similar to the way it stores the red button BBC channels on 28E. If you have a copy of DreamBoxEdit, see if the 4 channels are listed as data services. If they are, then edit each of the channels individually and tick the box for TV service instead.

Apogee · 19-06-2009 11:50am

Stored as data channels on a DM600:

Manually set the Service Type to 1, save the channel list, ftp it to the dreambox and reboot.

cormacl · 19-06-2009 2:10pm

Excellent.. that worked.

So its RTE NL at fault here with the incorrect settings.

20/20 · 19-06-2009 3:25pm

Thanks but no luck yet.I have rescaned the DTT a few times now,and each time they come up on a list as found but iam not given an option to store them,so i just exit the menu.Maybe if thats my problem??or is there a way of storing.I was hoping that maybe on the remote when i push the down button and then green button that DTT would appear here as the three satellites do.

Apogee · 19-06-2009 5:09pm

cormacl wrote: »

So its RTE NL at fault here with the incorrect settings.

No, Dream are at fault for not making the firmware fully DVB compliant.

20/20 wrote: »

Thanks but no luck yet.I have rescaned the DTT a few times now,and each time they come up on a list as found but iam not given an option to store them,so i just exit the menu.Maybe if thats my problem??or is there a way of storing.I was hoping that maybe on the remote when i push the down button and then green button that DTT would appear here as the three satellites do.

You have to edit the channel list with DreamBoxEdit on a PC as outlined above.

cormacl · 19-06-2009 5:10pm

20/20 wrote: »

Thanks but no luck yet.I have rescaned the DTT a few times now,and each time they come up on a list as found but iam not given an option to store them,so i just exit the menu.Maybe if thats my problem??or is there a way of storing.I was hoping that maybe on the remote when i push the down button and then green button that DTT would appear here as the three satellites do.

You see what's happening is that the receiver >is< storing them.. but labelled as data services and as a result they will not appear under the UI as TV or radio services.. there's no way you will be able to view these afterwards. But they are being stored in the service database.

So you need to edit this service list and change their definition from 22 to 1 to force them to be treated as tv services. Once I did this today, the green button on the channel lists (the one labelled satellites), showed a terrestrial services section alongside the other satellite service lists.

But to be fair to Dream here.. this is RTE NL's fault.. they are in error here with the wrong identification of the services.

The best thing to do is to get DreamboxEdit (google for it) and connect it over a LAN or crossover cable to the dreambox to download the service database, make the edits as advised by Apogee and the write these changes back to the receiver.. then it will work.

Chances are this issue will be rectified by RTE NL in time.. but thats no fun now when you've forked out good money for this receiver.

20/20 · 19-06-2009 6:40pm

Thanks Apogee and cormacl you have explained it very clearly,i will look up dreambox edit later,as iam new to dream receivers i was getting my head around the various features before i hooked up broadband.

SRB · 19-06-2009 6:43pm

It has been mentioned before, but obviously worth mentioning again - this isn't just confined to Panasonic TV's - as a rule of thumb don't re-scan if you have the channels working. Lyngboxes, for example, do exactly the same as the Dreamboxes and store the RTE services as data channels and again although they are there, you can't view them.

maxg · 19-06-2009 7:44pm

cormacl wrote: »

But to be fair to Dream here.. this is RTE NL's fault.. they are in error here with the wrong identification of the services.

RTENL is strictly following the DVB specs.
Some lazy software coders for boxes cut edges and ignored the full dvb standard.

20/20 · 19-06-2009 10:45pm

Thanks SRB but i only bought the box on Tuesday and put the tuner in on Tuesday night so as everything was new from the factory it wont matter about he rescan.

cormacl · 22-06-2009 11:12am

maxg wrote: »

RTENL is strictly following the DVB specs.
Some lazy software coders for boxes cut edges and ignored the full dvb standard.

EDIT: Found out later on that the ETSI spec I found was well out of date.. RTE NL are using legit MPEG4 SD TV service indicators. So my rant below does not apply here!

If the DVB standards state that the service type is 1 for TV & 2 for radio.. why then does a set top box vendor become non-compliant when it ignores other non-TV and non-radio services?

To have detected these in the search.. shown on screen and stored in the saved services database, and then gone on to filter them from the service bouquets.. thats not laziness.. that is deliberate conformance to the specification.

Horsing any old **** out as a TV service when its not labelled as one is anything but conformance to the standard.

I checked ETSI EN 300 468 which defines the SI (service information) definitions for DVB.. service type is defined as follows:

This is an 8-bit field specifying the type of the service. It shall be coded according to table 75.

Table 75: Service type coding
0x00 reserved for future use
0x01 digital television service <<< they should have been this value
0x02 digital radio sound service <<< of this value
0x03 Teletext service
0x04 NVOD reference service
0x05 NVOD time-shifted service
0x06 mosaic service
0x07 PAL coded signal
0x08 SECAM coded signal
0x09 D/D2-MAC
0x0A FM Radio
0x0B NTSC coded signal
0x0C data broadcast service
0x0D reserved for Common Interface Usage [17]
0x0E RCS Map (see EN 301 790 [35])
0x0F RCS FLS (see EN 301 790 [35])
0x10 DVB MHP service
0x11 to 0x7F reserved for future use <<< 0x16 (22) fits here
0x80 to 0xFE user defined
0xFF reserved for future use

So broadcasting with 0x16 (22), RTE NL are broadcasting an unassigned service type, reserved for future use. Compliant my arse.

cormacl · 22-06-2009 12:56pm

Folks,
I opened a enquiry ticket with Dream on this and they confirmed that they have had to deal with this use of non-standard values before.. they directed me to one of the python modules in enigma2 which does highlight more of the same non-compliant value usage.

/usr/lib/enigma2/python/Screens/ChannelSelection.py:
MODE_TV = 0
MODE_RADIO = 1

# this makes it much simple to implement a selectable radio or tv mode :) 
service_types_tv = '1:7:1:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:(type == 1) || (type == 17) || (type == 195) || (type == 25) || (type == 134)'
service_types_radio = '1:7:2:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:(type == 2)'

The colon-formatted strings are the service entries as they appear in the services file (/etc/enigma2/lamedb).

So they added a Python filter from the services file to split it into TV and Radio services.. and had to include 17, 195, 25 & 134.. the hex values of which all conform to either reserved or user-defined service types. I've hacked mine now to include 22 and will test later today when I get home.

maxg · 22-06-2009 4:14pm

@cormacl
Maybe you shouldn't check a en300468 version from the stone age.

ETSI EN 300 468 V1.7.1 (2006¡05)

Table 79: Service type coding
service_type Description
0x00 reserved for future use
0x01 digital television service (see note 1)
0x02 digital radio sound service (see note 2)
0x03 Teletext service
0x04 NVOD reference service (see note 1)
0x05 NVOD time¡shifted service (see note 1)
0x06 mosaic service
0x07 reserved for future use
0x08 reserved for future use
0x09 reserved for future use
0x0A advanced codec digital radio sound service
0x0B advanced codec mosaic service
0x0C data broadcast service
0x0D reserved for Common Interface Usage (EN 50221 [39])
0x0E RCS Map (see EN 301 790 [7])
0x0F RCS FLS (see EN 301 790 [7])
0x10 DVB MHP service
0x11 MPEG2 HD digital television service
0x12 to 0x15 reserved for future use
0x16 advanced codec SD digital television service
0x17 advanced codec SD NVOD time¡shifted service
0x18 advanced codec SD NVOD reference service
0x19 advanced codec HD digital television service
0x1A advanced codec HD NVOD time¡shifted service
0x1B advanced codec HD NVOD reference service
0x1C to 0x7F reserved for future use
0x80 to 0xFE user defined
0xFF reserved for future use
NOTE 1: MPEG2 SD material should use this type.
NOTE 2: MPEG1 Layer 2 audio material should use this type.

cormacl · 22-06-2009 4:39pm

well spotted maxg!.. my bad!

OK... so it means Dream bad, RTE NL good.. its definitely a bug then.

I logged into home from work and edited the referenced python script, restarted enigma and ran a manual re-scan via the web-remote and screen-shot feature.. it worked perfectly after adding 22 into the TV service set. Also based on the values they had already exceptioned in, it appears they support HD MPEG4 services and had seemingly only omitted MPEG4 SD services.

cormacl · 22-06-2009 8:24pm

20/20 wrote: »

Thanks SRB but i only bought the box on Tuesday and put the tuner in on Tuesday night so as everything was new from the factory it wont matter about he rescan.

20/20.. given that you are using the factory software, you will also have an issue when switching between sat services and DTT services. On older software, a tune failed would often occur when switching from a sat service to a DTT service. This could be rectified by switching to a non-HD sat service to 20+ seconds and then back to the DTT service. But quite annoying. The latest Gemini image (4.3) has this issue fixed.

So even if you get past the current scanning issue, there's also the sat/dtt switching.

So it would be wise to get the box networked and see about upgrading the on-board software to one of the newer images from Gemini (i-have-a-dreambox.com). If you have a home broadband router, its not at all hard to do this.

Post back if you need assistance on this.

20/20 · 22-06-2009 11:43pm

Thanks cormacl Gemini(4.3) it will be,i was wondering about the image and you have answered that question also.

cormacl · 26-06-2009 10:00am

FYI.. bug logged to Dream Multimedia and I got a response today that its on the list to be fixed.

Given its such a noddy edit to a single file, I'd expect this to easily make the next Gemini build etc.

That would mean that by then the DM8000 is working flawlessly with sat/dtt combo for Ireland with freesat EPG support.

20/20 · 26-06-2009 10:08pm

Thanks cormacl.

cormacl · 19-07-2009 3:16pm

FYI.. Gemini 4.4 For the DM8000 was released a few days ago and the fix for the MPEG4 SD DTT service scanning is there. So it will now scan these without issue.

20/20 · 19-07-2009 5:31pm

Thanks again cormacl i will look into it when i have time.

Where is terrestrial tv on my dm8000?

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