1 yro boy killed by Rottweiler - UK

EGAR · 29-12-2007 12:38am #1

Family dog kills one-year-old boy
A one-year-old boy has died after being attacked by a dog at a relative's home, police have said.
West Yorkshire Police said the boy was in the yard of the home in Wakefield on Friday afternoon when he was attacked by the pet rottweiler.

He was taken to hospital with serious injuries but later died.

The dog was destroyed in order to ensure the safety of others at the address, a police spokesman said. The incident is being investigated.

A West Yorkshire Police spokesman said they were alerted by the ambulance service at 1530 GMT.

He added that the boy's family was being supported by specially-trained officers.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/england/west_yorkshire/7163696.stm

Ruu_Old · 29-12-2007 12:41am

Sad but has happened a number of times this year as far as I can remember (a couple of times reported on Sky News). Should have been under close supervision.

peasant · 29-12-2007 12:45am

Who on earth would leave a one year old child and a dog (any dog !) alone together ?

Duzzie · 29-12-2007 12:46am

Sad.

No doubt we'll get the usual "Killer Dog" stories. Blame the dogs owners not the dog. How can anyone let a rottie, or any dog really, anywhere near a 1 year old baby???:mad: Dont know the full story but no baby of that age should be left un-supervised with any type of dog.

Duzzie

EGAR · 29-12-2007 12:53am

It doesn't say *alone* - it has just been on breaking news so there is no more info

. It's a sad day indeed..

RIP little boy...

BanzaiBk · 29-12-2007 12:56am

It says nowhere in the article that there wasn't sufficient supervision/the child was alone. It seems to be developing. Similar sentiments shared though.

ztoical · 29-12-2007 1:03am

awful awful awful thing to happen at this time of year, actually awful to happen any time of year.

A 1 year old shouldn't be left out of sight period. On xmas eve a couple of years ago, my mum [a doctor] was called to a house where a 1 year old had accidentally strangled himself with christmas wrapping ribbon - you can never EVER take your eyes off a toddler.

Children that age are very active but have no sense of danger. not keeping them in you eye line and they pull dogs tails, fall into uncovered ponds, or pull heavy objects down off tables. Don't think people should wrap children in bubble wrap and never let them out, children need to explore to learn but you should always be no more then a half step away from them at that age, as they get older you can step slowly further away.

Duzzie · 29-12-2007 1:05am

True, we'll have to wait for the full story to come out. That said, if appropriate supervision was in place, the dog should not have been able to attack the child. Big dogs tend to give a warning before attacking but as you say we dont know the full story.

Appologies if I came accross as being tactless. I'd hate to think of any child going through such a horrific attack. It is indeed a very sad story and you cant help but feel sorry for the poor child.

Duzzie

the_syco · 29-12-2007 1:06am

Meh. Rottweiler are fairly docile dogs, unless you train them to be vicious. And in that case, you're a dumb f**k for leaving a vicious dog, trained to hurt, with a defenceless person.

Oh, and hit a dog on the neck/back area from behind, and they'll attack you. Pretty sure on pure instinct. Baby may have just done so, and BAM, baby is ****ed.

BanzaiBk · 29-12-2007 1:08am

Any rott I've seen irl has been very placid and friendly, no doubt the "some dogs are vicious" brigade will be out in force after this. My heart breaks for that poor baby though.

EGAR · 29-12-2007 1:11am

I am sorry but alot more causes a dog to attack then being trained to and that goes for every breed: genetics (granted, it's a small percentage but yet can't be ignored), no proper socialisation, extreme dominance not properly brought under control, pain, brain tumour etc. The list is pretty long...

BanzaiBk · 29-12-2007 1:13am

EGAR wrote: »

I am sorry but alot more causes a dog to attack then being trained to and that goes for every breed: genetics (granted, it's a small percentage but yet can't be ignored), no proper socialisation, extreme dominance not properly brought under control, pain, brain tumour etc. The list is pretty long...

Yeah but generally it's not breed specific? Or is it? I don't know anything about this at all, any info would be great.

EGAR · 29-12-2007 1:16am

No, it is not breed specific but studies have shown that large guard dog breeds such as the Rottweiler are more often less properly socialised as most owners can't be bothered and keep them as *yard dogs* which heightens the incidents with such breeds

.

peasant · 29-12-2007 1:18am

EGAR wrote: »

I am sorry but alot more causes a dog to attack then being trained to and that goes for every breed: genetics (granted, it's a small percentage but yet can't be ignored), no proper socialisation, extreme dominance not properly brought under control, pain, brain tumour etc. The list is pretty long...

But these things would have manifested themselves before, would they not?
Such a dog would at least have been a "grumpy focker" every now and then, if not plain aggressive.

all the more reason to keep it away from the baby.

ztoical · 29-12-2007 1:19am

EGAR wrote: »

No, it is not breed specific but studies have shown that large guard dog breeds such as the Rottweiler are more often less properly socialised as most owners can't be bothered and keep them as *yard dogs* which heightens the incidents with such breeds .

I've had a number of people tell me dalmations are a very aggressive breed and shouldn't be let near children - no clue how true that is as I had a dalmation for 15 years and he was the biggest softie.

Duzzie · 29-12-2007 1:21am

EGAR wrote: »

No, it is not breed specific but studies have shown that large guard dog breeds such as the Rottweiler are more often less properly socialised as most owners can't be bothered and keep them as *yard dogs* which heightens the incidents with such breeds .

Thats my point exactly. It is not the dog that is to blame if the owner does not provide it with the required surroundings. If you can not give the dog, or any animal, the time, effort or space/conditions that it needs, then you have no business keeping the dog.

EGAR · 29-12-2007 1:22am

Not necessarily, the Labrador which mauled me a few years back, had been here for some time before he attacked me (from behind). It usually takes a catalyst which we humans are too dumb to see.

EGAR · 29-12-2007 1:24am

Duzzie wrote: »

Thats my point exactly. It is not the dog that is to blame if the owner does not provide it with the required surroundings. If you can not give the dog, or any animal, the time, effort or space/conditions that it needs, then you have no business keeping the dog.

I COMPLETELY agree with you there.

peasant · 29-12-2007 1:29am

EGAR wrote: »

Not necessarily, the Labrador which mauled me a few years back, had been here for some time beofre he attacked me (from behind). It usually takes a catalyst which we humans are to dumb to see.

Yes ..but your circumstances are different. You run a rescue with lots of animals.
You would get to know them less intimately than a family dog and they'd be under more stress than any family dog ever should be (with the noise and the other dogs and all that).

What I'm trying to say is that if a family dog is a real family dog (and not just a half neglected "thing" in the garden) any latent aggression should be spotted pretty quickly (or not happen in the first place)

EGAR · 29-12-2007 1:32am

The Lab had been a family pet. He was surrendered for *lack of time*. They did not know that their dog (4 yro) was a ticking time bomb due to a brain tumour. And neither did I although he had been checked by a vet. He was quite happy here, tottering about until one day he attacked. Had I been a child and/or a less dog savvy person I would be dead by now.

peasant · 29-12-2007 1:37am

A brain tumor would be a very extreme and rare occurence, though

EGAR · 29-12-2007 1:39am

You can read my thoughts I was just going to add that in 99% of the biting incidents it is human error that leads to it.

EGAR · 29-12-2007 1:41am

And I might add a bit of Irish research which was done:

CUDDLY family pets such as Golden Retrievers and Cocker Spaniels are more likely to bite people than "vicious" dogs such as Pit bulls, according to new research into aggressive behaviour in dogs.

Although the research is not complete, Edmond O'Sullivan, a veterinary inspector with Cork County Council, has debunked some of the myths about vicious dogs.

His study, the first of its kind in Ireland, has also warned that dog owning is turning into a legal minefield.

The preliminary research found that "restricted breeds" such as the Staffordshire Pit Bull are not more likely to bite than non-restricted breeds.

It is the damage that a dog can do and not the likelihood that it could attack, which is central to a dog's restricted status, he explained.

"The idea of saying a breed is dangerous is neither here nor there. The reason certain breeds are restricted is not because they are more likely to bite but because, if they do attack, they are more likely to kill you.

"For example one of the restricted breeds, the Staffordshire bull terrier, on the basis of our results, was one of the five breeds that were least likely to bite."

The five breeds he cited as being most likely to attack are the Golden Retriever, Labrador, German Shepherd, Rottweiler and Cocker Spaniel.

Mr O'Sullivan is now calling calling for the compulsory micro-chipping of all dogs in Ireland because of the significantly low rate of owner prosecutions.Speaking before the findings of his project were due to be released, he said the entire area of dog owner responsibility had turned into a legal minefield.

"Micro-chipping of all dogs or even just restricted breeds is an absolute must. We have an absolute nightmare trying to enforce legislation here because owners can argue so easily that the dog isn't theirs. It's been a legal nightmare for us and there have been very few prosecutions in Ireland as a result."

The research, which took into account 100 dogs that had been previously involved in a biting incident, focused on both their past behaviour and the event itself.

With the data collected, O'Sullivan was able to find characteristic links between the dogs that had no history of previous aggressive behaviour and the dogs that had.

Preliminary findings suggested that adult dogs, which had been fully house trained, began to have house wetting accidents a certain period before the attack took place.

The project, which is due out in the next few weeks, was jointly undertaken by the Cork County Council veterinary department and the faculty of veterinary medicine at UCD. The aim of the scheme is to put together an education package which will teach how to prevent aggressive behaviour and biting by dogs.

macshadow · 29-12-2007 2:04am

Hi EGAR, do you know what might cause a pit bull to be dog aggressive for no apparent reason, and you could rule out that it had been trained to fight.

kerrysgold · 29-12-2007 2:25am

Sad about the little boy

but there is bound to be a reason, most dog's wouldn't just attack for no reason unless like EGAR's lab, a medical reason was the cause.

macshadow, I think any dog could possibly be aggressive with other dogs if it wasn't socialised with them when it was a youngster, but bull breeds were bred to fight with other dogs etc so probably need more socialisation than a dog that was bred originally to herd or whatever, that's just my take on it though.

ztoical · 29-12-2007 3:04pm

From the bbc website:

Mr Payne said the boy's aunt, aged 16, was caring for him and two girls, aged six and seven, in the house.

The 16-year-old girl was upstairs when the seven-year-old carried the baby outside to stroke the dog.

Mr Payne said: "Without any warning, the dog snatched the baby from the youngster's arms and carried him into the yard."

He said the 16-year-old tried to rescue the baby but was unable to do so, despite striking the dog.

Paramedics and police arrived within six minutes following an emergency call to police at 1530 GMT, he said.

The baby was taken to Pinderfields General Infirmary where he was pronounced dead.

The boy's parents were at a nearby property at the time.

More details coming out about the attack and all I can say is I feel very sorry for that 7 and 16 years old as I fear they are going to be the ones dealing with alot of emtional issues as a result of this.

This is an awful thing to happen to any parent but its never a simple black and white case of "crazed dog attacks baby" A one year old left alone with a seven year old and the only thing close to an adult in the house is a 16 year old upstairs? I could understand someone feeling comfortable leaving a 6 and 7 year old with a 16 year old but a one year old?

You never leave children that young alone even if you don't have a dog around. I saw the case of a 3 month old being rushed to hospital, no idea what was wrong and then they found out the 6 year old sister had been left lone with the baby and she had been pouring tons of 7-up into the baby and of course the baby couldn't deal with all the sugar.

RAFC · 29-12-2007 4:49pm

I have to agree ztoical - a 1yr old is still a baby and should be properly supervised at ALL times. While I have a very trustworthy 16yr old, I certainly would NOT be leaving him in charge of any baby. No. 1 they cannot see the dangers around and more importantly no.2 it is unfair to give them the responsibility attached to minding a baby.

This 16yr old will forever blame herself for something she was too young to foresee in the first place.

RIP Archie-Lee Hirst

Huggles · 29-12-2007 4:53pm

BanzaiBk wrote: »

Any rott I've seen irl has been very placid and friendly, no doubt the "some dogs are vicious" brigade will be out in force after this. My heart breaks for that poor baby though.

I agree with you. I have four dogs myself and come from a family that has always had dogs in 4s or 5s when I was growing up.

Anyways, my best friend had a rottie that was placid as you like but had a terrible jealous streak, if anyone came near my friend she turned instantly. I remeber a few times being asleep on my friends floor and said dog standing over me ready to tear the face off me. Sometimes it is the dog.

peasant · 29-12-2007 5:39pm

TheGooner wrote: »

Anyways, my best friend had a rottie that was placid as you like but had a terrible jealous streak, if anyone came near my friend she turned instantly. I remeber a few times being asleep on my friends floor and said dog standing over me ready to tear the face off me. Sometimes it is the dog.

eehhhh ...NO !

In the above case the dog was anything but placid. It just wasn't bothered 95% of the time, but it did clearly display undesirable behaviour for the other 5%.

A responsible dog owner would have noticed this and either trained the dog to change that behavior or kept the dog out of situations where such behaviour could manifest itself.

EGAR · 29-12-2007 5:50pm

macshadow wrote: »

Hi EGAR, do you know what might cause a pit bull to be dog aggressive for no apparent reason, and you could rule out that it had been trained to fight.

it all depends on the breeding, early socialisation, upbringing and training. I have worked with many dog aggressive APBT and only two resisted a change

. PM me if you need help.

macshadow · 29-12-2007 8:41pm

Thanks for the offer EGAR, while walking my dogs once three pit bulls came running towards us and all three of them grabbed one of my dogs, just kind of locked on to him and didn't do anything else, no shaking or growling.They were a bit like clothes pegs hanging from his ears:D.
When their owners caught up with them they were very appolagetic and explained they usually had muzzles on. I'm not even sure if it was real aggression, i find pit bulls very hard to read.

Sorry for going a little off topic:)

1 yro boy killed by Rottweiler - UK

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