First All Black School in Balbriggan?

The Hill Billy · 04-09-2007 7:43am #1

According to the International Herald Tribune Balbriggan is to get Ireland's first all-black school:

http://www.iht.com/articles/ap/2007/09/03/europe/EU-GEN-Ireland-Black-Students.php

IHT wrote:

First all-black school opens in Ireland

The Associated Press
Published: September 3, 2007

DUBLIN, Ireland: Children of African immigrants will attend an all-black school because they have failed to receive places in Ireland's overloaded education system, the government confirmed Monday.

Education Minister Mary Hanafin said the problems in the north Dublin suburb of Balbriggan reflected bad planning amid rapid population growth, not racist attitudes at existing schools. She vowed to get the new school, which will take students aged 4-12, integrated with white students as soon as possible.

"I would not like to see a situation developing where it is an all-black school, so it's something to keep an eye on for next year's enrollments," Hanafin said.

But local educators said they were shocked to see that, when they called a meeting over the weekend for parents struggling to find a school place for their children, almost everyone who turned up was black.

"That overwhelmed me. I'm not quite sure what to make of it. I just find it extremely concerning," said Gerard Kelly, principal of a school with a mixture of black and white students in the nearby town of Swords.

Hanafin said schools were doing their best and were not applying racist criteria. She said the government hoped to have a new school, organized by a non-denominational movement called Educate Together, up and running in Balbriggan by the end of the month.

The parents at Saturday's meeting in a Balbriggan hotel said they had tried to get their children into local schools but were told that all places had to be reserved by February. Almost all of the children are Irish-born and, under the law that existed until 2004, Irish citizens.

Some questioned why white families who had moved this year into the town had managed to overcome the registration deadlines to get their children into schools.

Some also complained that Ireland's school system was discriminating against them on the basis of religion. About 98 percent of schools are run by the Roman Catholic Church, and the law permits them to discriminate on the basis of whether a prospective student has a certificate confirming they were baptised into the faith. Some of the African applicants were Muslim, members of evangelical Protestant denominations or of no religious creed.

Kelly said some parents, both locals and immigrants, "felt forced or coerced to have their child baptised to get a place in their local Catholic school."

The episode illustrates key tensions in modern Ireland, where development of new housing has galloped ahead of ill-planned services, such as schools and roads — and where immigrants, particularly from Africa, are outsiders looking in.

More than 25,000 Africans have settled in Ireland since the mid-1990s. Most arrived as asylum seekers, and many took advantage of Ireland's law — unique in Europe — of granting citizenship to parents of any Irish-born child. Voters toughened that law in a 2004 referendum.

When asked whether white parents were reluctant to have their children attend predominantly black schools, Hanafin suggested that Irish-born blacks were part of the same "race" as white Irish people, so such prejudice was irrational.

"Just because the child is black doesn't mean they're not Irish. So it might be a skin-color issue, but it's not necessarily a race issue," she told national broadcasters RTE.

Moonbeam · 04-09-2007 12:12pm

I read that in this mornings metro.

Here is an article from last week.

Courtesy of independent.ie
http://www.independent.ie/education/latest-news/crisis-averted-at-last-minute-as-emergency-school-opens-1068334.html

Crisis averted at last minute as emergency school opens

Thursday August 30 2007

A crisis over a lack of primary school places for children, in one of the country's fastest growing towns, has been resolved at the last minute.

With just a week to go before the start of term, about 50 children in Balbriggan, Co Dublin, had no school to go to in the area, because they were all full.

Now, in an emergency response to the shortage of places, the Department of Education has asked the multi-denominational organisation Educate Together to open a school within weeks.

The lateness of the decision means that the 50 new junior infants cannot start until September 17, because teachers have to be recruited, and accommodation prepared at Sunshine House, the children's holiday home that will act as a temporary base.

It is projected that the number of primary school pupils will rise by 100,000 over the next decade. Enrolments at primary schools this year will hit 485,000, the highest in a decade.

The Department of Education is spending more than €540m this year on a total of 1,500 school building projects, involving 700 new classrooms and 17,500 desk spaces in order to meet growing needs.

As 50 children in Balbriggan enjoy another few weeks of freedom, a slow return to school has begun, although for the vast bulk of pupils the term will not start until next Monday.

The new Educate Together school in Balbriggan, to be called Bracken, is the second example of an emergency decision by the department to recognise a new school for this term.

The department published its official list of 13 new primary schools for September 2007 in April, but by July it had to add one -- and , this week, another.

A serious shortage of places in the rapidly-growing in west Dublin led to recognition for an Educate Together school, at Esker in south Lucan in July, to cater for 170 children from this term.

Many families had been travelling outside Lucan to school for several years.

Educate Together had been already approved for one of two other new primary schools at Adamstown, west Dublin, also due to open next week, but last month it also got recognition for the Esker school

Educate Together only agreed to take on patronage of the second school in Balbriggan this year, on the basis that the department is taking break with tradition and take responsibility for its accommodation needs.

He said as well as arranging the temporary accommodation, the department was also at an advanced stage of acquiring a site.

pwd · 04-09-2007 12:15pm

This is one of the stupidest things I've heard. Immigrants need to be integrated to prevent increasing racial tensions.

"About 98 percent of schools are run by the Roman Catholic Church, and the law permits them to discriminate on the basis of whether a prospective student has a certificate confirming they were baptised into the faith."

That needs to be changed. The catholic church needs to have reduced influence in what should be secular institutions such as schools and colleges

The Hill Billy · 04-09-2007 12:31pm

I agree wholeheartedly pwd. It is an absolute disgrace that the government continues to allow one religion such dominance in the management of the country's education system.

The government needs to act now to the changing religious & ethnic demographic to ensure that all children living in Ireland are treated equally within the education system. And when I say "equal" I mean "equal" - positive discrimination should not be entertained either.

EmiliaK · 04-09-2007 2:01pm

I too agree with how ludicrous this is! Religion should NOT dominate something as crucial to our people's and our country's futures as the education system.

If the section of the report stating that white children who are just as new to the town managed to get into the schools is correct, this is highly dubious...

Segregation should be avoided at all costs!

I do know, however, that there are serious problems with regard to the fact that some of these children's English is not up to a standard that makes it easy to provide everyone in the class with the required level of education, and that an unacceptable amount of class time has to be spent dealing with this problem, holding the other children back.

This is a seperate issue which definitely needs to be addressed for everyone's sake, but having an all black school is not the way to do it!

Gillo · 04-09-2007 2:02pm

pwd wrote:

That needs to be changed. The catholic church needs to have reduced influence in what should be secular institutions such as schools and colleges

Considering that the catholic church also pump's alot of money into the education system, I assume that you'll whole heartedly embrace the money been taken from other areas or an increase in tax.

Personnaly, I don't agree with an all any ethnic / religion school but I think people are taking this out of proportion and the paper's gleaming at a headline which will sell papers.

Appearently a lot of parent's arrived at some of the schools yesterday having not tried to register their children, which would certainly put a different spin on things.

Didn't the Educate Together open a second school in sunshine house?

T-Maxx · 04-09-2007 4:19pm

What's wrong with an all black school?

Sure, they even have their own rugby team...:D

Chinafoot · 04-09-2007 6:36pm

gillo wrote:

Didn't the Educate Together open a second school in sunshine house?

There's definitely a school in there anyway. It's a gaelscoil as far as I know.

Wishbone Ash · 04-09-2007 10:23pm

pwd wrote:

The catholic church needs to have reduced influence in what should be secular institutions such as schools and colleges

Hill Billy wrote:

It is an absolute disgrace that the government continues to allow one religion such dominance in the management of the country's education system

It is in the Government's interest that the Churches continue to provide most of the primary school education. Standards may drop and operating costs would soar if all primary schools became state run institutions. Like it or not, Churches (of all faiths) tend to run schools/hospitals at a much more financially efficient level than state-run counterparts.

wow sierra · 04-09-2007 11:12pm

Wishbone Ash wrote:

It is in the Government's interest that the Churches continue to provide most of the primary school education. Standards may drop and operating costs would soar if all primary schools became state run institutions. Like it or not, Churches (of all faiths) tend to run schools/hospitals at a much more financially efficient level than state-run counterparts.

The churches have a great history in providing schools, hospitals, care for the disabled etc when the state wasn't doing it. It has been a huge challenge for the Health Boards/HSE taking over these services in recent years. I think people would be amazed at the amount of money directly provided by the Catholic Church to schools in Balbriggan (the figures are available in the parish accounts for anyone who's interested).

Back on original topic there are plenty of black children in all the local national schools, including the Gael Scoil. This isn't a race issue - its just another symptom of the rapid rise in population in the town.
A quick glance back through archive news footage will show a similar story at the beginning of every September for as long as I can remember, just with the location changed.
Its ironic the number of Rural schools who are taking children at 4 to keep the numbers up and not lose teachers.

The Hill Billy · 05-09-2007 8:12am

Wishbone Ash wrote:

It is in the Government's interest that the Churches continue to provide most of the primary school education. Standards may drop and operating costs would soar if all primary schools became state run institutions. Like it or not, Churches (of all faiths) tend to run schools/hospitals at a much more financially efficient level than state-run counterparts.

You hit the nail on the head there - "It is in the Government's interest..." The current state of affairs is not in the interests of the educational welfare of children in Ireland today.

My point still stands - The current education system under the dominance of the Catholic Church effectively marginalises non-Catholic children. Non-Catholic families are put in a position whereby their access to already-stretched educational facilities is very limited.

If, on the other hand, the Catholic heirarchy stopped discriminating against non-Catholic children in the allocation of school places that would be a step in the right direction.

Wishbone Ash · 05-09-2007 8:24am

Hill Billy wrote:

If, on the other hand, the Catholic heirarchy stopped discriminating against non-Catholic children in the allocation of school places that would be a step in the right direction.

In fairness, they are forced to discriminate because of the pressure for places. If they were allocated more teachers, classrooms etc. they would be delighted to accept pupils of all denominations.

(It's not just the Catholic Church - Church of Ireland schools also give priority to CoI, Presbyterian, Methodist etc.)

grahamo · 07-09-2007 11:55am

T-Maxx wrote:

What's wrong with an all black school?

Sure, they even have their own rugby team...:D

But seriously! The situation in Balbriggan is a disgrace! The population must have at least doubled in the last few years but no extra school places. I moved to Balbriggan a few years ago and had a nightmare time trying to find school places for the kids. I'm paying a lot of tax euros and the govt. aren't even delivering the basics. It makes me so Angry!

Fingleberries · 07-09-2007 2:20pm

At last - someone who's got to the core of the problem. It's not an issue of racism, it's not a religious issue ... It's a problem brought about by a dreadful level of service provided by the government at a national and local level.

In the rush for sensational headlines and column inches to cause controversy, people have jumped on the bandwagon decrying an 'all-black' school, not mentioning that a number of the pupils are not of african descent.

The same for people giving out about the role of the Catholic church in education. I'm not catholic and never had any problem going to school (went to a C of I school, and later an RC school) ... but people need to remember that the churches have invested lots of time and cash into educating the masses [no pun intended] when the state wasn't, or couldn't afford to.

Even now, the churches invest time and money in running the schools because the government can't do it right. I'd say that most schools are also being kept afloat by funds raised by the schools or Parents associations themselves.

Sure, newer organisations are making a start (like Educate together), but they usually have to fight with the Dept. of Education for recognition and funding.

The main problems I see from this issue is that

1) the government is incompetent and could have avoided this issue in a number of areas with proper planning.
2) Local authorities should place conditions that 'x' amount of land for amenity areas such as schools should be provided when granting planning permission for huge amounts of housing - then enforce the conditions.

For example, from what I read in the papers: the existing Educate Together School in Balbriggan is on land that the developer had 'set aside' for developing a school in the area (as was a condition of their planning permission).

They never actually went about building a school.
Fingal County Council eventually got involved and negotiated a deal with the developer for the land to use it as a school.
The school was put onto the land
In Prefab buildings
With no room to expand the grounds
With no room for children to play
with no real facilities for children.

Meanwhile the government look blindly the other way. Why should they get involved? ... They get vast amounts of Stamp Duty for all these new houses, apartments, etc. Tax funds come in from other sorts of places. They don't get anything for schools, they just drain funds from the Government coffers.

Also, Whatever happened to the Public-Private Partnership secondary school that was supposed to go into Balbriggan? A state of the art facility that would put all other schools to shame?
- Oh yeah, they realised that there's the big problem now for primary schools so it should be another 7-8 years before the same batch of children need a secondary school ... Ah, sure there'll be another election in between. That'll be a headache for someone else to deal with, then.

.... [deep breath] Apologies for the rant, but it's really annoying when attention gets deflected away from the core issue by sensationalistic headlines and stories looking for a scandal....
... I'm going for a lie down after that [/rant]

Moonbeam · 25-09-2007 9:31am

Copied from unison.ie

New class war breaks out

Pupils and parents arrive at the new multi-denominational school in Balbriggan, Co Dublin, which opened yesterday with 80 pupils.
Tools

Tuesday September 25 2007

The country is facing an "unacceptable and dangerous" situation unless the State gets involved in proper planning for schools to meet the needs of the increasingly diverse community, it was warned yesterday.

The current faith-based system of education provision meant that children from religious minorities would be "disproportionately represented at the bottom of the queue for places".

The warning came as the new multi-denominational Educate Together school, Bracken NS, opened in Balbriggan, Co Dublin with 80 pupils, overwhelmingly from an ethnic minority background.

The school has four classes, two junior infants and two multi-grades covering students from senior infants to fifth class.

The school was an emergency response to demand in the Balbriggan area, to accommodate pupils for whom there was no space in other local schools, predominantly Catholic, which operate a Catholics-first policy.

Educate Together chief executive Paul Rowe said yesterday they had no evidence of racist policies being implemented by school authorities in the Balbriggan area.

The reason for the ethnic mix of the new school were complex, but chiefly to do with the chronic failure of planning for new schools in new communities.

Neither was there evidence of institutionalised racism in the Irish education system, but there was profound, embedded and institutionalised religious discrimination throughout the system, particularly at primary level, said Mr Rowe. "This discrimination is the responsibility of the State, not of schools or religious bodies.

"It is inevitable that, in a system where 98pc of schools are faith-based and permitted to prefer members of their faith in enrolments, those not of the majority religions will be disproportionately represented at the bottom of the queue for places. This is unacceptable and dangerous. It is essential that the State ensures that there are sufficient places in schools operating on the basis of equality in all areas.

"Only then can we ensure that parents have equal access to education and that no one is compelled to choose a faith-based school against their conscience."

He said international experience had demonstrated that there was an intersection between religious and racial discrimination and that, if religious discrimination went unchecked, racist division was almost inevitable.

Educate Together wants the Government to amend planning legislation to require the transfer of sites for schools as a condition of planning permission for housing estates, "the root cause of school place shortages in new suburban areas".

Mr Rowe acknowledged that change was afoot and said they had met with department officials last week to plan for schools for 2008. "There are strong indications of a real effort to get a handle on this question.

"We would hope that measures like this would reduce the likelihood of other emergency situations such as emerged this summer", he said.

Personally I am against national schools being Catholic schools but, I think they are making a race issue out of this when really it wouldn't matter what religion or race the kids are there is simply just no space in the schools.

There is already an educate together school,and to the best of my knowledge the gaelscoil is not a catholic school though neither have proper school buildings yet.

The population is just growing a lot faster then the facilities to maintain it.

Water,schools......

Heinrich · 25-09-2007 9:42am

Not a mention of Hanafin in all this so far!!! The state should be providing education but let the CC do the dirty work. Simply shows a lack of competence. All these new citizens did not get parachuted from Mars, the authorities must surely have been aware of the increases. Let's get building the secondary schools which will be needed in a few short years - based on the number of primary students at present.

The problem is simply LACK OF PLACES and that is not the fault of the CC.

Hanafin, get off your ass and do what you are paid to do.

Jay D · 30-09-2007 9:24am

oh this is really taking the piss.

thought it was about integration and that

An Bradán Feasa · 20-01-2008 12:54pm

EmiliaK wrote: »

I do know, however, that there are serious problems with regard to the fact that some of these children's English is not up to a standard that makes it easy to provide everyone in the class with the required level of education, and that an unacceptable amount of class time has to be spent dealing with this problem, holding the other children back.

That's not true. I don't know where you got your information from. Every classroom in that school has a language support teacher, as well as a class teacher. No child is being held back due to another's language difficulties.

cathy01 · 20-01-2008 8:17pm

I don't know.I often hear the argument that children with behaviour problem's take up so much of the teachers time.
Would it not be fair to say that although their is SOME help for young children learning English, its not enough and time WILL be spent by the class teacher helping them to understand.
I have to stress this is no fault of the children or school.Its simpley a situation that should be identified and acted apon.
Its not a racist thing to say, its simply an observation.
I do now it must be very vrey difficult for the young children to learn.I spend a lot of time reading with my own child and am also aware that the parents aren't getting the lanague support they need.
Cathy

20-01-2008 10:41pm

I suggest you have a read of the detailed report produced by the school principals in Dublin 15, which faces similar issues and make your own mind up.

http://bap.ie/dloads/intercultural_education_report.pdf

Fingalian · 24-01-2008 12:28am

Deleted User wrote: »

I suggest you have a read of the detailed report produced by the school principals in Dublin 15, which faces similar issues and make your own mind up.

http://bap.ie/dloads/intercultural_education_report.pdf

192 pages? eh I don't think so. How about you give us the synopsis?

The Hill Billy · 24-01-2008 8:31am

Fingalian wrote: »

192 pages? eh I don't think so. How about you give us the synopsis?

Why not go to Chapter X (p147 to p157) for the Conclusion & Recommendations?

An Bradán Feasa · 25-01-2008 5:52pm

cathy01 wrote: »

Would it not be fair to say that although their is SOME help for young children learning English, its not enough and time WILL be spent by the class teacher helping them to understand.

That's not the case in this particular school. I know this because I work there!

cathy01 · 25-01-2008 9:27pm

From that , can I take that there more the sufficient resources given to the school to cater for children who do not have English as their first Language?
I think not.I think that no only should the children be given support in English but also the parents.I think , in years to come we will be faced with children teaching their parents English.
I think every child that needs help,with any subject and on any grounds bee it special needs, nationality be given it.And, the parents be provided with the information to help their child succeed.
Just my opinion,
cathy

Gillo · 26-01-2008 9:27am

I think it's a two way thing here though.

My six year old daughter goes to school in Balbriggan, she in senior infant's. Her homework is extremely easy for her anytime I have done it with her, the creche she goes to has also said that the homework is basically crap and doesn't challenge her at all. From what we (myself and her mother) can see a lot of time has to be spent with children who have trouble with English. don't get me wrong I have no problem with children in this situation been help but not at the expense of my daughter or other children.

At the moment we are seriously thinking of moving her to the Gael Scoil, as I wouldn't expect there to be children from outside Ireland (sorry, trying to be as PC as possible with the wording

) and hence no language difficulties for the children, on the basis that she wouldn't be held back then.

The interesting thing is, I was talking to another child's parent, all I said was that I was thinking of changing my daughter's school, I didn't go into the reason, but his response was that he was also considering changing schools and told me why. They were the exact same as why I was considering the change.

cathy01 · 26-01-2008 7:56pm

I don't think it is a racist thing to say , time been spent by a teacher on many children with language difficulties means your child is not receiving the teaching they need.
Its ok to state something , which for you , you deem to be a fact.
I would FULLY 100% Support more TAFL teachers been brought into any school that needs them.
I think the parents , if AT ALL concerned should talk witht he schools BOM, not just the principal.I strongly feel that parents shouldn't be afraid to openly say, you spend to much time helping children that need more 1-1 intervention.
That's OK, .If it was a child with special needs the class gets a SNA.We don't have SNA for children who don't speck English.

if other children and indeed the non English specking child is having trouble, address it.
cathy

cathy01 · 26-01-2008 8:07pm

on another note.I am also aware of the number of parents who go to parent teacher meetings and no translate is available. Could the school /parents association ask for a volunteer who can translate? ALSO the number of letters going home to parents written only in English I mean GOOGLE does a translation. A little thing, can make a huge difference.
Cathy

An Bradán Feasa · 27-01-2008 9:13pm

cathy01, the class teacher doesn't have to spend extra time with particular students with language difficulties. That is why there is a language support teacher in the class as well as the class teacher. The language support teacher addresses these language needs, not the class teacher.

Regarding your point about letters going home to parents. Are you referring to this new school or all schools in general?

cathy01 · 28-01-2008 10:44am

all schools in general of course.It jhappens in all school s that have new familys that dont speck English.
I understand the class may have a lanague support teachre but again , only 1?I think we need more help in the schools.Does the TEFL teacher take the child out for one to one or sit in the classroom and help ?
Just wondering.
cathy

Moonbeam · 28-01-2008 10:45am

I think her point is that not all classes have language support teachers and in these cases a lot of the teachers time is sucked up due to language difficulties.

28-01-2008 11:30am

some of the interesting findings from the Dublin 15 report are:

Nigerian kids are the biggest recipients of English language support, is it any different in Balbriggan?

Teachers mentioned classes of 26 kids with only 3 having English.
What use is one support teacher in a class like that?

There were no kids receiving English language support in the Gael Scoil,
a recent report I read that kids from Gaelscoileanna, had better English language skills than kids attending regular primary schools.

the principals also mentioned serious issues regarding discipline among African kids with a lack of repect for female teachers with older boys in particular,

All this points to a serious lack of resources within schools, and a useless minister for education, who can "talk the talk", but thats where it ends.

An Bradán Feasa · 28-01-2008 5:36pm

cathy01 wrote: »

all schools in general of course.It jhappens in all school s that have new familys that dont speck English.
I understand the class may have a lanague support teachre but again , only 1?I think we need more help in the schools.Does the TEFL teacher take the child out for one to one or sit in the classroom and help ?
Just wondering.
cathy

The language support teacher does both. Certain times of the day his/her presence is required in the classroom as a back-up to the class teacher. Other parts of the day, when things are more settled down, some 1-to-1 work gets done.

And yes, there is one language support teacher to a class in this school. If the government changed the criteria then the classes would be entitled to more. But this is not the case. The current system works well in this school, in my opinion.

An Bradán Feasa · 28-01-2008 5:44pm

Also, regarding your point about using Google to translate. It seems like a fair idea. I'll pass it on when I get a chance. The only problem is, the translations would not be 100% accurate and we may get something looking like this (in English here, just to illustrate my point, but the same sort of message in another language):

"To school finish on the 12:15 of February 19 for to be the conference of teach people."
I'm sure you can just about understand this, even though it looks like extremely broken English, but this is how it might look in any other language. Is it a good or a bad idea to use Google to translate like this? There is an obvious advantage, in that the basic message will be just about understandable, but regarding accuracy is it a bad idea?

Gillo · 28-01-2008 6:35pm

Deleted User wrote: »

There were no kids receiving English language support in the Gael Scoil,
a recent report I read that kids from Gaelscoileanna, had better English language skills than kids attending regular primary schools.

At a guess, I'd say it's mainly Irish children being sent to a Gael Scoils, I don't have stastic's to back this up, but I take it most of you can see why.

cathy01 · 29-01-2008 10:00pm

hi ya, if there are any letters which are standard and you want me to get them translated into any lanague..{with in reason] then please dont hessitate to pm me them and I will get them done.No problem.
Have to say Ed togehter is very lucky to have you on baord.
cathy

First All Black School in Balbriggan?

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