University Record - 2nd Edition

wesclark · 24-10-2006 1:47pm #1

Big improvement. No howlers anywhere and two stories that most people should read and enjoy on the front page.

well done simon & co

Andrew 83 · 24-10-2006 3:05pm

Ill be in Trinity this evening so will check it out then. What's the stories?

wesclark · 24-10-2006 4:40pm

Andrew 83 wrote:

Ill be in Trinity this evening so will check it out then. What's the stories?

Hist treasurer resigning over 'bullying' unt "The Agent"

nutball · 24-10-2006 5:10pm

The lead stories are one on Kathy Troy resigning as Treasurer of the Hist and one on The Agent in TN.

Sadly, the Dep Pres and/or his writers seem to have an enormous amount of difficulty differentiating between 'News' and 'Opinion'. The 'Kathy Troy' article is exactly that - a shamelessly one-sided affair masquerading as a news article, with a gratuitous paragraph-long plug for the Phil concluding it (wtf?). The article on The Agent manages to be somewhat newsworthy until it descends into ill-presented opinion territory at the end ("If you need anonymity to write something you probably shouldn't be writing it at all... These 200 or so 'hacks' have never had trouble finding fora in the past to bitch about one another so by no means can this be dressed up as a college service" etc.).

Even articles that could for the most part be considered news reports in the real sense are given headlines that don't belong in that section, viz. the report on College adopting Fair Trade tea and coffee with the incongruous title "How fair is fair trade?" above it, indicating that the editor either a) didn't actually read the article or b) has limited reading comprehension skills.

And then! What they do consider 'Opinion'? Something called 'Radical Mike', a deeply unfunny mock-Agony Aunt column, followed by (a pattern emerging..!) a deeply unfunny 'Dear Diary' column. Since when is that 'Opinion'? The only title that wouldn't be a lie would be something like 'Unmitigated Rubbish', but even 'Features' would suffice.

The Record's never been great, but this is really ... eugh. In fairness, the books, music, cinema, fashion etc. seem grand. At least they are what they're meant to be.

24-10-2006 5:54pm

Too many holes to pick. Though I did like the layout of the front page, as well as the headline inside: 'Hist hosts historical evening'

And since TN has made the leap to a working website, I'm curious why the SU website still has a blank for where the PDFs are meant to be. If it is the sheer size of the PDFs then putting up the text should be do-able.

I also assume that the officer reports will be in Aontas if that's on it's way.

Stargal · 24-10-2006 6:15pm

They put the Agent on the front page? Seriously?

24-10-2006 6:23pm

Two stories on the front page - "Hist Treasurer resigns over 'schoolyard bullying'" and "The Agent sparks campus controversy". Former continues on page 4, latter on page 5.

Andrew 83 · 24-10-2006 6:32pm

The Record has had that problem of differentiating between News and Opinion for a number of years.

Stargal · 24-10-2006 6:59pm

That Agent headline is ridiculous.

Bartronilic · 24-10-2006 9:46pm

I read some of it and didn't notice any "Agent" thing and read the TN and so no "Agent" thing. What's the "Agent" thing?

24-10-2006 9:53pm

TN's 'The Agent' piece, which the Record did a story on. It's on the front page.

Or did I misunderstand what you said?

CmcC · 25-10-2006 12:16am

I would be of the opinion that the front page, main article is slanderous to several individuals and the Hist in general. Accusations are made of a person nature that are not backed up by facts but presented as such, these are actually opinions or one side of a story. It amounts to libel and defamation of character because the accusations are directed at one person only and the Hist in general in my opinion and Im sure legal experts will be consulted on it. It should probably be withdrawn.

As I said already, I think more important things are going on in College than the s### about the hist/phil/gmb/hacks. Its all well and good reporting on it a few pages in but, as someone people would term a GMB hack Im actually sick of reading about it. If all the SU can write about is the GMb its a sad day. It amounts to laziness.

For example:The College just brought back peoplefinder, launched a modified Strategic Plan, the Seaned Registry office f###ed up the Seanad electoral register(see Irish Times) by leaving off nearly 100 voters for the next election(including my own), a nobel laureate gave a lecture on thursday night, 3 SU officers sit on board and theres not one real student story of interest. also the Lincoln Place Inn has been 'reserved' for a client and planning permission applied for its refit, class rep elections have been held and the SU shop got a make over. What is that editor at? There are a tonne of stories that would fill any newspaper. I could think of a few more fairly quickly. Lecturer loses in many arts subjects, while plenty of recruitment down the science end. Frances Ruane, a TCD prof to become head of the ESRI, the nations economic think tank; new front sq residences opened to students, the increase in energy charges for students in College residnences and also how students in private accom will also have to pay more..........

Finally: Nobody cared about the agent apart from the people in it and it was a forum for John McGuirk to put a few opinions out there. Hardly front page news and im sure the people would have perferred it wasn't highlighted further and names revealed.

xeduCat · 25-10-2006 12:35am

shay_562 wrote:

I'd have liked it if I thought for a moment it was intentional. But that would suggest someone on the Record staff had two brain cells to rub together, which clearly isn't the case.

See, that's the sort of destructive discourse that poisons the atmosphere for student volunteering, student-led activities and extra-curricular goings-on in general. There are a lot of excellent critical arguments on this page, necessarily harsh in some cases, but saying things like no-one in an entire group of people (all of whom give up time and effort for free bar the editor) has any intelligence is exactly the nonsense that leads to the same handful of people being involved in SU, clubs, socs and publications year after year.

You are involved in societies and student activities, right? So presumably you think that encouraging others to be engaged and active is a good idea. How does that sort of slagging help?

I understand that people can have strong feelings about other newspapers, societies etc, and that criticism of policy decisions (i.e. they shouldn't have run that event that way, they shouldn't have printed that, they shouldn't have spent money on that, or so on) is healthy. However I'd suggest that general scattergun negativity towards volunteers is in itself A Bad Thing.

The man is a ****wit, plain and simple, and something should be done.

Why don't you go up to his office and tell him that then? I have no desire to defend the Record or its current editor but isn't that a bit harsh, especially if it's from the safety of a computer?

Crash · 25-10-2006 12:41am

Could wesclark please stop shilling? its interesting to note that the only posts that that account has made have all been in TN and UR threads. I personally don't take kindly to underhanded efforts at publicity and anything along such lines will be treated harshly.

xeduCat · 25-10-2006 12:47am

What do you have in mind?

Andrew 83 · 25-10-2006 12:48am

Think the Agent piece is a bit hypocritical. I'm not defending the content of the Agent piece in TN necessarily but instead pointing to two things which either shouldn't have been put into the article or else should have led to changes in the rest of the paper.

1) The piece lambasts in an opinionated way the fact that the column is anonymous. This is despite the fact that the Record regularly uses false names itself. I find it hard to believe that Stetson Kennedy is a real person (apologies to you Stetson if I'm wrong on this) while the last issue had an article by Fox Alexander amongst others. Also is Radical Mike still David Quinn under an alias or is there someone else now penning it? Either way their identity isn't exactly clear.

2) The article also says that the Agent column 'overstepped reasonable boundaries'. What then can be said of the cartoon of a dog giving Hitler a blow job on the back page? The most inappropriate thing I have ever seen in a student newspaper by a long way. I don't even get it or why it is there.

The paper is better than the first but still has a long way to go. Some more random thoughts:

- I think A sports page should always be on the back page, particularly in a tabloid. The second last page would have made a good back page in my view.

- Although Conal Campbell is Deputy Editor I think an opinion piece regarding the PD's should also state that he is a member of that party. Although it didn't really say anything controversial a reader should know that.

- All credit to Carolyn Power on an excellent article about the demise of Smash Hits in the music section. Would not be out of place in a national music publication

EDIT: Removed name of a real person I suspected to be fake.

gymrabbit · 25-10-2006 12:55am

I actually haven't had a chance to read this paper yet. I should also mention that I keep confusing the physics guy Apexaviour hates with Simon Hall. I Like Simon Hall, don't really know why, never met the guy.

Just on a side note. I think it's pretty horrible to go around slagging people off on a message forum, using their real names etc. while posting with an alias/nickname. This goes for the writers in the UR doing the same thing. Even if some of these guys put themselves out in the public domain for critism i.e. SU presidents etc.

Agent Smith · 25-10-2006 12:59am

Andrew 83 wrote:

1) The piece lambasts in an opinionated way the fact that the column is anonymous. This is despite the fact that the Record regularly uses false names itself. I find it hard to believe that Stetson Kennedy is a real person (apologies to you Stetson if I'm wrong on this) while the last issue had articles by Anne Lavelle (could this be a reference to TN's John?) and Fox Alexander amongst others. Also is Radical Mike still David Quinn under an alias or is there someone else now penning it?

well, Anne Lavelle does exsist, she's A Pro for SFSOC

Pet · 25-10-2006 1:01am

&#231 wrote: »

Could wesclark please stop shilling? its interesting to note that the only posts that that account has made have all been in TN and UR threads. I personally don't take kindly to underhanded efforts at publicity and anything along such lines will be treated harshly.

Yeah I noticed that too.

Saying that, I like the discussion that comes after each issue - perhaps this year's staff should be pointed towards boards.ie/tcd to read the general consensus?

Andrew 83 · 25-10-2006 1:01am

agent smith wrote:

well, Anne Lavelle does exsist, she's A Pro for SFSOC

Ok my bad on that one, I'm still doubting the existence of the others though.

Agent Smith · 25-10-2006 1:03am

/me waves

HELLO DAVE!

mcguirkj · 25-10-2006 2:34pm

CmcC wrote:

Finally: Nobody cared about the agent apart from the people in it and it was a forum for John McGuirk to put a few opinions out there. Hardly front page news and im sure the people would have perferred it wasn't highlighted further and names revealed.

Frankly, Cathal, I've put up with this **** from you for long enough. The fact that that article said that "speculation centred" on me is precisely because you and every other sad little hack it that **** society of yours is still convinced that everything that goes wrong in the society is in some way connected to something I did, and as such have spent the last three weeks complaining that it must have been me who wrote it.

For once in your life wake up to the fact that you, and a succession of people before you, took everything good about that society and turned it upside down, to the extent that the "Clique" you tried to replace has been replaced with the most inward looking, bitchy, and nasty group in the college. I don't like Kathy, but at least her email of resignation was brutally honest about that, though I know you'd prefer if people never got to read it.

As regards the slanderous, and libellous allegation you made above, I couldn't be bothered even engaging with it, I made a clear statement on the matter in this issue of the record and will be making no further comment on it. If you have an issue with the content of TN I strongly suggest you take it up with the Editor, and leave me the hell out of it.

Grow up.

Crash · 25-10-2006 2:46pm

ok, two points. 1) any more accusations of John having written the article, unless they can be proven, will be deleted straight away. Don't just throw about opinion or rumour as fact, its plain stupid.

In respect to the agent article, I have a bit of a problem with this site being used out of context to back up an article. If el editor needs clarification of a point he can feel free to ask me in person, but the agent article was misleading as to what occurred on here.

Awayindahils · 25-10-2006 3:03pm

I love when I take a day off from posting on here, the whole place turns into a brawl.

As for the Record I've never been a huge fan, but I thought that this issue was significantly better than the last. The Hist story was coming anyway. Infairness rather than getting angry about the story being published, the Hist need to find out who leaked the email and deal with the issue as quickly as they can.

The Agent should never have been printed in the first place, but John should not have been singled out in the article as he was, nor should've ELizabeth O'Brien and Paddy Cosgrave, yeah it was a talking point in college for a couple of days but making you're competitor front page news, is possibly not the best move.

I thought it was fair enough, the aritcles definetly had a team phil/su slant but that seems to have become a feature of college life this year.

Hitchhiker's Guide to... · 26-10-2006 2:07pm

nutball wrote:

The article on The Agent manages to be somewhat newsworthy until it descends into ill-presented opinion territory at the end ("If you need anonymity to write something you probably shouldn't be writing it at all...")

lol - Worst.Ignorance.Of.Own.Papers.History.Ever

what was that famous Record story two years ago, attacking someone under a false name?

Crash · 26-10-2006 2:22pm

ah yes, the Ed Reilly piece iirc...

Andrew 83 · 26-10-2006 6:27pm

Roundtower2 wrote:

lol - Worst.Ignorance.Of.Own.Papers.History.Ever

what was that famous Record story two years ago, attacking someone under a false name?

Penned by the ever mysterious Jennifer Davis.

26-10-2006 11:03pm

That film article was pants.

26-10-2006 11:45pm

Simon's thrown up the PDFs on to the website, it seems. So for anyone who hasn't seen the record (only second issue so far), enjoy!

http://www.tcdsu.tcdlife.ie/index.php?nodeId=11

CmcC · 27-10-2006 4:50pm

Sorry about the confusion John,

I frankly couldn't care less about the content of the Agent, apart from the bit at the bottom of that piece, and I was objecting to the fact that the Record article made it worse by actuall naming the person and allowing all of college to know. the substantive content of my post was on the record, nothing to do with you, apologies if you got that impression.
Secondly, apologies about saying it was you, several people had said it to me it was you, people not actually in the Hist at all, so sorry for the mix-up, They were obviously mistaken but i hope you can read my post above and see that it was a small part of a long article, and if you have other personal issues with me as you have vented in your post, please take them up with me personally.
however its obvious you hate things that are written anonymously as much as I do.

Finally, I don't really care what Kathy has to say about the Hist or anybody else. Obvisously you have issues with the hist but my beef with the reisgnation article is that James O'Brien, the Hist Auditor gave a detailed response to the accusations made it in which the editors ignored, slanting the article and also the fact that the writer is in the same class as Kathy Troy.

mcguirkj · 27-10-2006 5:56pm

CmcC wrote:

Sorry about the confusion John,

I frankly couldn't care less about the content of the Agent, apart from the bit at the bottom of that piece, and I was objecting to the fact that the Record article made it worse by actuall naming the person and allowing all of college to know. the substantive content of my post was on the record, nothing to do with you, apologies if you got that impression.
Secondly, apologies about saying it was you, several people had said it to me it was you, people not actually in the Hist at all, so sorry for the mix-up, They were obviously mistaken but i hope you can read my post above and see that it was a small part of a long article, and if you have other personal issues with me as you have vented in your post, please take them up with me personally.
however its obvious you hate things that are written anonymously as much as I do.

Finally, I don't really care what Kathy has to say about the Hist or anybody else. Obvisously you have issues with the hist but my beef with the reisgnation article is that James O'Brien, the Hist Auditor gave a detailed response to the accusations made it in which the editors ignored, slanting the article and also the fact that the writer is in the same class as Kathy Troy.

Apology accepted Cathal. However, the "issues about you that I vented in my post", firstly, are not personal issues with you, for whom I've always had high personal regard, but issues with a direction you persued in office, and secondly, have been raised with you personally on numerous occassions, and are no secret.

One more point, perhaps slightly tongue in cheek, - haven't you in the past been quite a believer that the membership of the society should be told the full truth on matters that effect the society that are aired in the College media?

I trust you'll be putting significant private pressure on the Auditor to respond fully to the Record Article and put the views of th Treasurer in context by way of, say, an email to the entire membership...

University Record - 2nd Edition

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