Advertisement
If you have a new account but are having problems posting or verifying your account, please email us on hello@boards.ie for help. Thanks :)
Hello all! Please ensure that you are posting a new thread or question in the appropriate forum. The Feedback forum is overwhelmed with questions that are having to be moved elsewhere. If you need help to verify your account contact hello@boards.ie
Please note that it is not permitted to have referral links posted in your signature. Keep these links contained in the appropriate forum. Thank you.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2055940817/signature-rules

Classic 911 as a daily driver....

Options
  • 04-12-2005 10:01pm
    #1
    Bluehair
    Registered Users Posts: 1,336 ✭✭✭


    I've posted a thread here about changing my trusty 75 in the new year for something more 'sporty'.

    At the moment the Mx5 or Mr2 are the front runners (with the former in the lead based on looks) but I've yet to drive either.

    I've always harboured a secret longing for a 911 and am now wondering if it would be crazy to consider running an older model as a daily driver?

    €10k was my initial budget and I just saw a really nice example here but I'd stretch to €15k for something special.

    I know pre-75 would save me a fortune on running costs in terms of annual tax but would appreciate any info on other costs I'm not thinking of. I'm 30 btw with 5years ncb so hopefully insurance shouldn't be ridiculous...

    Am i nuts to even be thinking along these lines or is it a runner.... :confused:


Comments

  • Options
    #2
    Abelloid
    Registered Users Posts: 3,495 ✭✭✭Abelloid


    If anything goes wrong with the engine or 'box you'll need to double your budget :rolleyes:

    EDIT: Doesn't matter now, it's sold.


  • Options
    #3
    Bluehair
    Registered Users Posts: 1,336 ✭✭✭Bluehair


    JustinOval wrote:
    If anything goes wrong with the engine or 'box you'll need to double your budget :rolleyes:

    Really? :eek: That bad... Bloody hell :(


  • Options
    #4
    Abelloid
    Registered Users Posts: 3,495 ✭✭✭Abelloid


    Well maybe that's over doing it a bit, my point was buying a bargain Porsche could turn out to be a false economy,
    better starting with a bigger budget and getting something with a good history.


  • Options
    #5
    mike65
    Closed Accounts Posts: 88,978 ✭✭✭✭mike65


    No expert but I'd say a 911 would be a far more sensible bet than any other 'supercar' of that era.

    Still it would be good idea to do some heavy research.

    Mike.


  • Options
    #6
    Bluehair
    Registered Users Posts: 1,336 ✭✭✭Bluehair


    The sensible option would probably be the Mx5 which by all accounts seems to be a fantastic motor... but the 911 still keeps calling me.

    Mind you I'm bearing JustinOvals advice in mind. Nothing would take the shine off owning a 911 than constantly having for fork over cash for various bits going wrong.

    I'll be taking a few options for a spin over the next few weeks. I'm not ruling out the 911 completely just yet but cost of ownership is an issue that might swing it in the end. The other thing is while I'd be happy enough with a two-seater those back seats in the 911 would be very handy from time to time (cramped and all as they are).


  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #7
    TempestSabre
    Registered Users Posts: 4,142 ✭✭✭TempestSabre


    Friend brought an older one (late 80's) in from the UK. Took him a few months of searching to find one. No idea what the running costs are. Its his main car, though he doesn't work every day and its not a commute in traffic. He has use of his girlfriends car for shopping etc. Consider a older 912. They can be cheaper to run with the 2.0. Most people can't tell the difference.


  • Options
    #8
    Bluehair
    Registered Users Posts: 1,336 ✭✭✭Bluehair


    TempestSabre wrote:
    Consider a older 912. They can be cheaper to run with the 2.0. Most people can't tell the difference.

    Thanks for the tip, am scanning through google now very interesting! Cheers. Cheaper to run sounds good I'd happily sacrifice bigger engines etc. for reliability and running/servicing costs.


  • Options
    #9
    ds20prefecture
    Registered Users Posts: 1,765 ✭✭✭ds20prefecture


    TempestSabre wrote:
    Consider a older 912. They can be cheaper to run with the 2.0. Most people can't tell the difference.
    Good advice - theres an argument that says the 912 is a sweeter handler than its contemporary 911, due to the lighter weight of the engine. Some have said the 911/912 engine is are fragile things, although I don't understand this myself. Aircooled engines, if properly maintained, tend to be more robust than water cooled ones due to their simpler design.

    If you intend to depend on the car daily and will do much more than 12000 city miles per year, you might want to consider having a standby car or alternative plans to get to work. If your work is fairly flexible, and it wouldn't be the end of the world if the car let you down, I'd say go for it.

    I use my DS daily-ish, say 2 or 3 work days and all weekend. The car is the better for being driven regularly and hasn't let me down in 3 years, but you must keep it regularly serviced (say every 5000 miles) and constantly check things like oil, coolant, brakes, lights, etc. I know a guy who ran a '73 911 daily here in Dublin. His biggest problem was the damage caused by malicious vandals - we worked in a dodgy area at the time.

    Spend as much as you can afford when buying the car - the better you buy it, the less it costs to keep good. Labour is the single most expensive item when dealing with a classic - if you're into doing the mechanical bits yourself, you'll save a fortune, if not, make sure they are all done before you buy.


  • Options
    #10
    Bluehair
    Registered Users Posts: 1,336 ✭✭✭Bluehair


    ds20prefecture wrote:
    If you intend to depend on the car daily and will do much more than 12000 city miles per year, you might want to consider having a standby car or alternative plans to get to work. If your work is fairly flexible, and it wouldn't be the end of the world if the car let you down, I'd say go for it.

    There's the thing. I'd probably be putting about 13k or 14k a year on it but as a full-time student there's no panic if i don't get in on a particular day. I spend a while sharing my better halfs car while between cars myself and while it was a bit of a pain we did it for over a month with no hassles really.

    The 912 could be a great compromise if i could get my hands on a nice one. Low tax(30yrs+), easier to service, reasonably reliable (if looked after properly), hardtop plus those 4 seats if needed.

    I'm not overly mechanical myself but am learning and I know a great mechanic who owns a 911 himself, was just talking to him this morning and he reckons it's not a bad idea either.

    I guess finding one will be the task now... if anyone sees a good one drop me a pm! (and thanks everyone for the advice :) )


  • Options
    #11
    Redrocket
    Registered Users Posts: 2,214 ✭✭✭Redrocket


    anyone watch top gear last night? about buying the classic supercar for under 10k?


  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #12
    PaulK_CCI
    Registered Users Posts: 827 ✭✭✭PaulK_CCI


    some excellent points, the more regular you use your car, the better it is for the car, but as with everything, you have to stay on top of it with maintenance and nip any problem that might start to surface in the bud straight away. If you start with a good car, and buy the best you can afford, it should be reliable enough to use on a daily or very regular basis.

    Mind you, 10-15 for a 911 is danger territory, and I doubt you will find a reliable enough car for regular use for that sort of money. You'll end up with a car that has been neglected in some areas, and I have found that rarely does an owner neglects the interior or the bodywork, but keep the mechanical maintenance up to scratch!!! As JustinOval mentioned, if your 911 engine needs to be reconditioned you'll need a serious amount of money for backup: just the top end will be around the 4k easily, so imagine what it will be like if your crankshaft needs to be balanced or the seals are gone... I don't think it is a matter of the engines being more fragile, but the costs of the parts and labour to recondition them. Biggest problems with 911/912 engines are oil seals, bent pushrods and worn valves. Carb problems are quite commonplace too and the mechanical fuel injection on the older "S" and "E" are a b*tch to get right. Gearboxes suffer from worn synchros on 2nd or bad linkeage.

    If you want to use a 911 on a more regular basis, then indeed a 912 would be a much better option. The 90bhp 1600 engine from the 356 is a very reliable unit and still offers enough performance to feel quick and nimble. The weight distribution is better, because the engine is tucked deep into the engine bay and doesnt hang over as much as the 6 cylinder 911. The 912 is cheaper to run, to maintain, easier to tune, and doesn't eat as much fuel as a 911, therefore the prices for 912's are rising steadily and strongly, and good examples go for a lot of money. Plenty of ropy, dodgy examples around so be careful not to get caught out.

    A possible alternative, but a bit harder to find is the 912 that appeared briefly in 1975/76, featuring the 'new' impact bumper style 911 body, with the 4 cylinder 2.0 litre unit !!! They're not easy to find, but at least you have a galvanised chassis and an improved engine. I know of a few very nice pre-69 912's and one or two 1976 912's, but effecticely they're not VRT Exempt (YET).


  • Options
    #13
    Bluehair
    Registered Users Posts: 1,336 ✭✭✭Bluehair


    PaulK_CCI wrote:
    some excellent points, the more regular you use your car, the better it is for the car, but as with everything, you have to stay on top of it with maintenance and nip any problem that might start to surface in the bud straight away. If you start with a good car, and buy the best you can afford, it should be reliable enough to use on a daily or very regular basis.

    Thats what I'm hoping for. Luckily I know a decent (and trustworthy) mechanic whos into Porsches so there's someone close by to turn to if somethere happens.
    PaulK_CCI wrote:
    Mind you, 10-15 for a 911 is danger territory, and I doubt you will find a reliable enough car for regular use for that sort of money.

    I spent much of last night with google and that seems to be the general opinion. There's cars out there for that kind of money but with potential very ropey history and some serious issues to be sorted. As you point out it's not cheap putting anything right in an old 911.
    PaulK_CCI wrote:
    If you want to use a 911 on a more regular basis, then indeed a 912 would be a much better option. The 90bhp 1600 engine from the 356 is a very reliable unit and still offers enough performance to feel quick and nimble. The weight distribution is better, because the engine is tucked deep into the engine bay and doesnt hang over as much as the 6 cylinder 911. The 912 is cheaper to run, to maintain, easier to tune, and doesn't eat as much fuel as a 911, therefore the prices for 912's are rising steadily and strongly, and good examples go for a lot of money. Plenty of ropy, dodgy examples around so be careful not to get caught out.

    You seem to know your 912s! :) The comment my mechanic mate made this morning was "it's a lot more presentable than a beetle but just as easy to work on!" :D The trick I suppose is getting a nice example.
    PaulK_CCI wrote:
    A possible alternative, but a bit harder to find is the 912 that appeared briefly in 1975/76, featuring the 'new' impact bumper style 911 body, with the 4 cylinder 2.0 litre unit !!! They're not easy to find, but at least you have a galvanised chassis and an improved engine.

    Ah is that the 912E? I was reading about that a bit i think it was the last ever version of the 912 and looks to be a lovely car.
    PaulK_CCI wrote:
    I know of a few very nice pre-69 912's and one or two 1976 912's, but effecticely they're not VRT Exempt (YET).

    Any of those for sale? :D


  • Options
    #14
    PaulK_CCI
    Registered Users Posts: 827 ✭✭✭PaulK_CCI


    Bluehair wrote:
    You seem to know your 912s! :) The comment my mechanic mate made this morning was "it's a lot more presentable than a beetle but just as easy to work on!" :D The trick I suppose is getting a nice example.
    I have sourced and sold a good few 912's into Ireland over the last 5 years, so yes, I do know them very well :D . The only downside to a 912 that I can think of is, that it actually sounds like a Beetle on steroids at the traffic light... but on the go it's quite a nice note from the exhaust.
    Bluehair wrote:
    Ah is that the 912E? I was reading about that a bit i think it was the last ever version of the 912 and looks to be a lovely car.
    Exactly, the 912E. Looks exactly like the 911, apart from the badging. The 912 was produced until 1969 and only 75/76 they reintroduced the 912E for the American market. A good few have been reimported into Europe and these cars have the 2.0 fuel injected engine from the 914.


  • Options
    #15
    Garz
    Registered Users Posts: 40 ✭Garz


    I drive a 1979 911SC Sport. I have driven it daily for the last year, and can vouch for the fact that Porsches are hugely reliable when taken care of.
    I bought mine with no history, but from a known Porsche specialist in the U.K. with a pre-purchase inspection (a must when buying anything over 20 years old) so I knew it was a good motor.

    I steered away from an older Porsche for 3 main reasons -

    1. I really wanted a galvanized car. I know they can still rust, but the likelihood of it happening is so much less then non-galvanized, if you take care of them.

    2. I have a terrible hate of non-fuel injected engines. The complexity involved in putting problems right with carbs and the lesser fuel efficiency and power in the larger non-injected engines, put me off big time.

    3. I wanted as many comforts as possible, good leather/elec windows/elec sunroof/power assisted brakes, and couldn't find an older car worth the money that had them all, particularly power assisted brakes.

    I would advise that you keep well clear of targa models, they may be cheaper, but in my opinion they are just not worth the noise/warmth/leak issues that come hand in glove with owning one. I speak with some authority on this issue as my father is a long time owner of a Carerra Targa and he is still jealous of my Coupe although his 3.2 is more powerful then my 3.0. He's afraid to bring his car out if rain threatens.

    The 911 is a spanking good drive. The acceleration is fabulous, and power worthy of respect. You do however need to be gentle with the gear boxes. These cars are known for the need for leisurely gear changes. However once you adapt your driving style and remember that with that vast well of power underfoot, you don't need to race up through the gears, you'll find it hard to get that grin off your face.

    The cost of ownership is not that bad at all, providing you buy a porker with a good engine. There is a huge industry built up around the supply of parts for older Porsches. I buy anything I need on the Net from sites such as www.pelicanparts.com or www.design911.co.uk. Prices are generally cheaper then you'd expect. I also have any work necessary (fitting elec window motors, new callipers) carried out by a Porsche specialist here in Dublin, who doesn't charge any more then any independent mechanic.

    Petrol - my car's a 3 litre, I only use Shell V-Power which I find the most fuel efficient - I put about €25 a week into her, but don't drive all that much. As I'm not driving great distances, I'm sure I'm not getting the best efficiency from my engine. I'm at my destination before it has reached optimum temp.

    I may be selling my beloved 911 in the new year as the baby seat in the back is ruining my image and my son's swiftly growing out of it, but I'll be looking for about 18.5k for her.

    Good luck with the search!


  • Options
    #16
    BrianD3
    Registered Users Posts: 8,301 ✭✭✭BrianD3


    Would you consider a Porsche 944, 968 or 928

    928 on carzone
    http://www.carzone.ie/usedcars/index.cfm?fuseaction=Car&carID=313556&message=You%20searched%20for%3A%20Porsche%20928%2E%20Your%20search%20returned%20one%20vehicle%2C%20which%20is%20shown%20below%2E&CFID=49778459&CFTOKEN=17124792


  • Options
    #17
    Bluehair
    Registered Users Posts: 1,336 ✭✭✭Bluehair


    BrianD3 wrote:
    Would you consider a Porsche 944, 968 or 928

    928 on carzone
    http://www.carzone.ie/usedcars/index.cfm?fuseaction=Car&carID=313556&message=You%20searched%20for%3A%20Porsche%20928%2E%20Your%20search%20returned%20one%20vehicle%2C%20which%20is%20shown%20below%2E&CFID=49778459&CFTOKEN=17124792

    I know someone with a 944 and while it goes like stink i just never fancied one tbh. I guess I'm just one of those kids who had the 911 poster on his wall and always dreamed of that classic shape someday :)

    Thanks for such a detailed post Garz the more I can learn the better I'll be able to make a decent choice. As I mentioned I'm in no major hurry to change (especially while it's still cold, God bless heated seats :D ) but I may well be interested if you do decide to sell up next year.

    Paul the more I think about it the more a 912 seems like a good entry to Porsche ownership and rear-wheel driving fun. Keep an eye out for me if you see anything good.


  • Options
    #18
    Abelloid
    Registered Users Posts: 3,495 ✭✭✭Abelloid


    I was looking for a 912 last year and I can't believe (as Paul said) how much the prices have gone up since.
    Take a look at the orange one on http://www.fuchs.co.uk it might not be to everyones taste, but I love it :D and for under 15,000 too.

    I still think I should have bought one last year :rolleyes:


  • Options
    #19
    ds20prefecture
    Registered Users Posts: 1,765 ✭✭✭ds20prefecture


    What do you think of this? Should be available in excellent condition at your budget. Mid engined, rather than rear engined and using a Porsche flat 6 or a VW flat 4, IIRC.
    DSCN0686.jpg
    DSCN0685.jpg


  • Options
    #20
    Bluehair
    Registered Users Posts: 1,336 ✭✭✭Bluehair


    ds20prefecture wrote:
    What do you think of this? Should be available in excellent condition at your budget. Mid engined, rather than rear engined and using a Porsche flat 6 or a VW flat 4, IIRC.

    Hmm actually that 914 ain't too bad tbh... definately another contender and will be seeking one out for a test drive in the new year.

    What would it be like to drive compared to the 912?


  • Options
    #21
    PaulK_CCI
    Registered Users Posts: 827 ✭✭✭PaulK_CCI


    Bluehair wrote:
    Hmm actually that 914 ain't too bad tbh... definately another contender and will be seeking one out for a test drive in the new year.

    What would it be like to drive compared to the 912?
    They are quite a nice drive actually, but the downsides with the 914's are the claustrophic, cramped cabin with limited leg and headroom, but at least you do have targa top that you can take out, but you'll need fine days for that...
    Biggest worry with the 914 is that the engine will need to come out for almost every little job you can think off. It is sandwiched in the middle of the car, with a boot behind and you can't reach a f*ckin thing for the life of it...

    But, that said, the midengined layout makes it quite a nice (but harsch) drive.

    By the way, the car can have a 1.7, 1.8 or 2.0 f/i engine. There was also the version where they shoehorned the 911 engine into it, but that car, the 914/6 is so rare, people pay silly amounts of money for it. For the purists, that's the only worthy 914 they deem worth mentioning, the rests are VW's with a Porsche badge...


  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #22
    Dades
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 25,558 Mod ✭✭✭✭Dades


    I think there's an article in C&SC magazine this month comparing the 914 with some other 70's little secret. If not that mag then it's definitely in one of the other classic mags.

    :)


  • Options
    #23
    flat6
    Registered Users Posts: 64 ✭✭flat6


    I bought a '76 911 Carrera 3.0 from Gmund cars in the U.K. in March of 2004. I drive it a couple of days a week to CityWest from Dun Laoire.

    Taking the m50 allows me to use 5th gear for a few minutes!

    I wouldn't consider driving a 911 in city traffic, but it's a lovely car to drive at motorway speeds.

    Only major problem I've had it a blown airbox last Christmas - my fault I should have fitted a pop-off valve!

    Managed to source a new airbox in the States and fitted it myself. (not a nice job)

    I try to do most of the work on the car myself - Terry Jackson in Shankhill adjusted the fuel injection for me a few months ago.

    I get parts from Pelican Parts in the U.S.

    I saw the Top Gear the other day featuring the £10K Italian supercars - to date my experience couldn't have been more different.

    (my car cost £11K btw)

    Good luck in your search or PM me for more details!

    Warren


  • Options
    #24
    RobAMerc
    Registered Users Posts: 5,862 ✭✭✭RobAMerc


    Perhaps a 968 ?

    Theres a reasonably priced one for sale in the BuyandSell I think.
    I know not any where near a classic (age wise) yet but it will get there some day !

    Rob


  • Options
    #25
    ds20prefecture
    Registered Users Posts: 1,765 ✭✭✭ds20prefecture


    These guys have a 912 for €16k or a 914 for €10
    http://thegallery.hexon.cx/s485d73400a3c314b7af3149a248495c4/details/?sid=297777


  • Options
    #26
    PaulK_CCI
    Registered Users Posts: 827 ✭✭✭PaulK_CCI


    ds20prefecture wrote:
    These guys have a 912 for €16k or a 914 for €10
    http://thegallery.hexon.cx/s485d73400a3c314b7af3149a248495c4/details/?sid=297777
    Yep, these guys have a wonderful setup here in Holland. Was there just two weeks ago to check out an Alfa Romeo GTV 2000, that is now on its way to the new owner in Meath, as we speak...

    Just for the heck of it, it would be worth visiting them, three floors full of classic cars, all for sale!! It's like a Car Museum!

    I have bought a number of cars off them over the years and I have a good relationship with the owner in that I am allowed to mirror a few of the cars on my own website, although I must add that I would certainly not stand behind all their cars. Some are rediculously overpriced for what the car actually is, and some are downright in bad shape, but a good few are actually in good shape and quite reasonably priced.

    The 912 seems to be a good car, although I haven't actually seen it myself as it's only just in. The 914 they have is actually in quite a poor shape. A lot of flaws in the body/paintwork, and some bad repairs, and that's before I had a chance to drive it, so I can't even comment on the running gear.


  • Options
    #27
    Abelloid
    Registered Users Posts: 3,495 ✭✭✭Abelloid


    Just found another 912 for a shade over €12,500, another thing to look out for is the wheels-
    Fuchs alloys are still hugely popular with vdub owners, and some sell for crazy money
    15x4.5 around €800 - €1200 a pair :eek: ,
    15x5.5 €700 - €1000 a pair
    15x6 (late) from €500 - €1000 for a set of 4
    15x6 (early) from €1000 - €2000 for a set of 4

    I think that one above has 14x5.5s. which go for around €600 for a set of 4

    Or a 912E for €12000? - http://www.vwrelics.co.uk/salenonvw.html

    I'm sorry I got started on this now........:D


Advertisement