"Real women" - rant alert...

r3nu4l · 04-07-2008 1:49pm #1

Okay, here's my rant for the Fashion and appearance forum...

I've seen this phrase, "Real women" bandied about by companies who are marketing their products to 'ordinary' women and I've seen a few people use the phrase in this forum too and it really fncking annoys me :mad:

My wife is a real woman, she's 5'8" and wears a size 8-10. Her weight hovers around 8 stone. She eats a full breakfast every day, takes sugar in her tea, eats a good lunch and always has a dinner, usually large portions. She likes steak and chips, chinese take-aways and loves ice-cream, biscuits, chocolate and cake. (She also likes salads, oily fish and healthy food too). Yet, she cannot put on weight despite trying to. She also doesn't go to the gym and is not an exercise junkie.

In her working life people have referred to her 'jokingly' as a 'skinny bitch', 'anorexic' and 'stick-insect' and she finds it upsetting. What is more upsetting is the use of the phrase 'real women' as if to indicate that she is somehow not real.

In my view, those most comfortable with the phrase 'real women' are those looking for an excuse to say it's okay to be fat/plump/a larger lady/heifer, even if it is a risk to my health and a risk factor for type 2 diabetes and cardiovascular disease.

The phrase 'real women' was dreamed up by marketing managers of cosmetic companies (such as Unilever's "Dove") in the hope of breeding customer loyalty in an industry that traditionally said 'you must look perfect'.

These days they are saying, 'it's okay to be imperfect, we'll take those imperefections and make the most of them'. It's just another marketing gimmick. Market research has identified the fact that obesity is on the rise and is rapidly increasing rather than decreasing so it makes sense to give the 'larger lady' a title she feels comfortable with and makes her feel somehow superior to other women, a title such as "real".

Slimmer ladies, rise up and be counted, be proud of what you are and don't let these people victimise you in some sort of sick role-reversal. To paraphrase Mika "Slim girls, you are beautiful!"

Does this phrase 'real women' annoy anyone else or is it just me?

judas101 · 04-07-2008 1:53pm

you'll find that the women who use the phrase "real women" are usually hefty oul yokes.

sounds like jealousy to me, 10 is best.

pookie82 · 04-07-2008 2:17pm

r3nu4l wrote: »

Okay, here's my rant for the Fashion and appearance forum...

I've seen this phrase, "Real women" bandied about by companies who are marketing their products to 'ordinary' women and I've seen a few people use the phrase in this forum too and it really fncking annoys me :mad:

My wife is a real woman, she's 5'8" and wears a size 8-10. Her weight hovers around 8 stone. She eats a full breakfast every day, takes sugar in her tea, eats a good lunch and always has a dinner, usually large portions. She likes steak and chips, chinese take-aways and loves ice-cream, biscuits, chocolate and cake. (She also likes salads, oily fish and healthy food too). Yet, she cannot put on weight despite trying to. She also doesn't go to the gym and is not an exercise junkie.

In her working life people have referred to her 'jokingly' as a 'skinny bitch', 'anorexic' and 'stick-insect' and she finds it upsetting. What is more upsetting is the use of the phrase 'real women' as if to indicate that she is somehow not real.

In my view, those most comfortable with the phrase 'real women' are those looking for an excuse to say it's okay to be fat/plump/a larger lady/heifer, even if it is a risk to my health and a risk factor for type 2 diabetes and cardiovascular disease.

The phrase 'real women' was dreamed up by marketing managers of cosmetic companies (such as Proctor and Gamble's "Dove") in the hope of breeding customer loyalty in an industry that traditionally said 'you must look perfect'.

These days they are saying, 'it's okay to be imperfect, we'll take those imperefections and make the most of them'. It's just another marketing gimmick. Market research has identified the fact that obesity is on the rise and is rapidly increasing rather than decreasing so it makes sense to give the 'larger lady' a title she feels comfortable with and makes her feel somehow superior to other women, a title such as "real".

Slimmer ladies, rise up and be counted, be proud of what you are and don't let these people victimise you in some sort of sick role-reversal. To paraphrase Mika "Slim girls, you are beautiful!"

Does this phrase 'real women' annoy anyone else or is it just me?

I agree 110%. It's like the size zero debate has been turned on its head and now "real women" everywhere are on the rampage, defending their right to be big and proud (which is fair enough) but jumping down the throats of anyone who would advocate a bit of weight loss (not fair enough).

In another thread on here when i suggested people losing weight to feel better as opposed to selecting a few tight corsets to squeeze it out of the way (with relation to a certain "look great" tv programme) I was told "it must be nice to be so perfect..." LOL!!!!!!!

It certainly does seem that you don't qualify as being a real woman nowadays unless you're in the plus sizes and are rebelling against the sticks in the magazines you're still buying. There can be a happy medium!!! You're right, it's just another marketing ploy but this time it's one that women en masse can jump on and it finally gives them a superiority complex.

By the way anyone who gives your wife grief with phrases such as "skinny bitch" etc is obviously jealous. She should take comfort in the fact that she clearly looks so good someone else feels the need to put her down.

all the stars · 04-07-2008 2:20pm

I hate these "real women" ads.

I have always been small. My mam was a 10 all her life. Naturally, no mad exercise routine or starving involved.
I have her figure - im short enuf 5'4" me thinks.
Im an 8-10 (depending on shop)

I have had nothing but abuse all my life about it, same as your wife, "stick insect" and "twiggy" etc... Mean coz i dont go round saying "oi heffer" while they say "oi twiggy"

I hate this Real woman sh*te - as regard some catalogues with the "real women" you have to be a 12 or up to qualify. Believe me, im small but im 100% organic! I hate it, and then the lingerie companies "real women" starts at certain sizes only...

And while i realise fully lots of people are a size 8 or 6 due to eating disorders - there are quite a few of us who are naturally slim!

I have had so many middle aged women say " enjoy it while you can - that'll catch up with you soon enuf" and start smiling... loving the idea of seeing me in a few years tripple the size.. whats with people? feic the marketing people! i've been bullied enough thru-out my life without having it now again , especially when its outside my control. ( weight and Genes passed down)

ntlbell · 04-07-2008 2:21pm

judas101 wrote: »

you'll find that the women who use the phrase "real women" are usually hefty oul yokes.

sounds like jealousy to me, 10 is best.

I would of thought a "real woman" would be one who was

Attractive, intelligent, confident, generally financially secure etc

If it came to body shape I would just imagine healthy but curvy in the right places.

but the phrase itself is a bit..umm....retarded..

PurpleBerry · 04-07-2008 2:50pm

OP, I'm not condeming your lovely other half but I will make this point: You shouldn't be proud of not exercising and if your gf isn't exercising at all then she really should consider starting.

Being slim doesn't give you immunity from being ill, nor does it give you an automatic pass to the term "fit". Everyone, of all shapes and sizes, should take some basic form of exercise. Not for vanity reason, but for health ones.

EcoGirl · 04-07-2008 2:57pm

Marketing ploy is right.

Dove is owned by the same people who own the Lynx brand ... and their ads portraying women on the sexual rampage aren't exactly portraying 'real' women in any way!

Malari · 04-07-2008 3:01pm

Thanks OP, I've always found that phrase particularly irritating. Am I somehow not a "real woman" just because I'm happy with my small body? They really mean "average woman" if they are talking about overweight women.

04-07-2008 3:01pm

Critising people because they don't fit your personal idea of physical acceptability is not cool.

But I would like to see more "realism" in marketing.
I'd like to see pores and real teeth and for them to acknowledge that there is such a thing as life after 30.

who's yer one? · 04-07-2008 3:05pm

i'm the same height/weight size as yer missus it seems (an inch shorter but close enough). i actually get poked in the side by people going 'lookit you, youre so skinny' or references to Kate Moss in Family Guy (she turns to the side and disappears). but imagine if you poked a 'larger woman' in the side and went 'you're kind of tubby, aren't you?' you'd be considered an a-hole. skinny people don't like being poked or accused of being anorexic, just like bigger people dont like being poked or called names
thank you for complimenting my physique, i eat like a pig and have awesome metabolism. im freaking lucky. poke me again and i will bite your arm off and eat it.

Curvy Vixen · 04-07-2008 3:06pm

I've used the phrase 'normal/real' woman before and have no issue with it. I use it in retaliation to those 'percieved' perfect women who have to look like Barbies (generally in the media world's minds). And last I looked I wasn't actually a heifer or an aul one.

However, I just think it's a shame that women (and men nowadays) aren't portrayed as being just that ~ a woman or a man. It's not particularly good to emphasise that any shape or size human is better or worse than any other. Yes, that might be a bit of a Utopian view but there you go!

If someone is healthy then happy days. I'm delighted that your wife is a size 8/10 but that doesn't necessarily make her healthier than someone like me who is around a size 14. I have a cholesterol level of 3.5 and go to the gym for 2 hours a day, 5 days a week.

It's sad that anyone feels the need to defend what they or their loved ones look like in this day and age tbh. And I think that it's horrendous that people call any other person names, be it skinny bitch or fat bitch. If I heard someone do that to anybody they'd have my toe up their backsides :mad:

***Am sitting back to see the reams of posts coming that will inform us that being slim is healthy and normal/curvy/bigger is not***

gabgab · 04-07-2008 3:10pm

Gotta agree with this too, and I agree that the real women campaigners are generally heavier women.

For some people being leaner is genetics, for others its watching diet and exercising, either way there is no disguising the fact that some people are overweight,

It is unhealthy, and regardless of your genetics you should make efforts to be at a healthy weight, and in decent shape, that does not mean you have to have 10% bodyfat, and be able to run a marathon,

It means healthy, simple as that

gabgab · 04-07-2008 3:15pm

Curvy Vixen wrote: »

I've used the phrase 'normal/real' woman before and have no issue with it. I use it in retaliation to those 'percieved' perfect women who have to look like Barbies (generally in the media world's minds). And last I looked I wasn't actually a heifer or an aul one.

However, I just think it's a shame that women (and men nowadays) aren't portrayed as being just that ~ a woman or a man. It's not particularly good to emphasise that any shape or size human is better or worse than any other. Yes, that might be a bit of a Utopian view but there you go!

If someone is healthy then happy days. I'm delighted that your wife is a size 8/10 but that doesn't necessarily make her healthier than someone like me who is around a size 14. I have a cholesterol level of 3.5 and go to the gym for 2 hours a day, 5 days a week.

It's sad that anyone feels the need to defend what they or their loved ones look like in this day and age tbh. And I think that it's horrendous that people call any other person names, be it skinny bitch or fat bitch. If I heard someone do that to anybody they'd have my toe up their backsides :mad:

***Am sitting back to see the reams of posts coming that will inform us that being slim is healthy and normal/curvy/bigger is not***

I agree with you, but what are the barometers of a normal healthy person?? Is it,

Bodyfat
Ability to run a distance
Play a sport
Their diet, the list is endless..........

If you go to the gym and spend 10 hours working at it in a week, I am genuinely confused as to how you can be a size 14?

I know a guy that was a national boxer, the guy was fat, plain and simple and he would admit it, does it mean he is healthy? No. He may be athletically in shape, good at a sport, but he is not healthy

gabgab · 04-07-2008 3:20pm

who's yer one? wrote: »

i'm the same height/weight size as yer missus it seems (an inch shorter but close enough). i actually get poked in the side by people going 'lookit you, youre so skinny' or references to Kate Moss in Family Guy (she turns to the side and disappears). but imagine if you poked a 'larger woman' in the side and went 'you're kind of tubby, aren't you?' you'd be considered an a-hole. skinny people don't like being poked or accused of being anorexic, just like bigger people dont like being poked or called names
thank you for complimenting my physique, i eat like a pig and have awesome metabolism. im freaking lucky. poke me again and i will bite your arm off and eat it.

ha ha went out with a girl from America who had that happen to her, girl said in a mean and vindictive tone, your very skinny, then made that sort of cnut face.......
Her response was ferocious, along these lines

"....... do you have any body issues?? Because I sure do, thanks for pointing them out to me you fat bitch........ not nice is it...... please dont feel free to comment on my physique and then be shocked when I comment on your's"

I could'nt really argue with her very logical and clinical approach to the situation,

Curvy Vixen · 04-07-2008 3:29pm

gabgab wrote: »

I agree with you, but what are the barometers of a normal healthy person?? Is it,

Bodyfat
Ability to run a distance
Play a sport
Their diet, the list is endless..........

If you go to the gym and spend 10 hours working at it in a week, I am genuinely confused as to how you can be a size 14?

I know a guy that was a national boxer, the guy was fat, plain and simple and he would admit it, does it mean he is healthy? No. He may be athletically in shape, good at a sport, but he is not healthy

I don't know the answer to that question to be honest. But I would probably base it a little more on what's going on in their insides rather than necessarily what you can see IYSWIM? My Dad is just under 6 foot, has always had a very healthy diet, doesn't eat sweets etc. etc. but has had 2 heart attcks in the last 3 years. He has always smoked and has 3 blocked arteries and the 4th working at approx 60% of what it should be. Put him next to my Mum and most people would assume she is the unhealthy one though....

In answer to the size 14 question, I have lost over 13 stone in the last 2 years ~ I have some excess skin that no amount of exercise will shift ~ hence a size 14...

LivingDeadGirl · 04-07-2008 3:32pm

It pisses me off as well, am I somehow less of a woman because I'm a size 8-10? :rolleyes:

brianthebard · 04-07-2008 3:32pm

Face it women are bi.tches and will use any excuse to belittle another member of the sex. You're a scientist op, its probably a genetic thing!

Curvy Vixen · 04-07-2008 3:34pm

brianthebard~ Face it women are bi.tches and will use any excuse to belittle another member of the sex.

Sadly I think you have a point here

doctor evil · 04-07-2008 3:36pm

Real women to me means any woman with a blemish aka not air brushed to death, size does not come into account.

herya · 04-07-2008 3:38pm

r3nu4l wrote: »

Does this phrase 'real women' annoy anyone else or is it just me?

The phrase is all right but it is misused. To me "real woman" has always meant a woman with natural imperfections, be it her weight (above or below average), hair, skin, wrinkles, freckles, teeth, anything. As opposed to a perfectly airbrushed model on the cover of glossy magazine. Someone you can see is alive and whose attractiveness comes from personality and character as well as from looks & appearance.

It seems that now the phrase means "larger woman". It shouldn't. We should simply reclaim the phrase - it includes larger women as well as your wife, as well as my friend who's taller than most men and myself, busty 10 with ghostly pale complexion.

brianthebard · 04-07-2008 3:41pm

I love how people are equating real with imperfections or blemishes, its like you know it can be insulting to others but you just can't let it go...

Malari · 04-07-2008 3:42pm

r3nu4l wrote: »

These days they are saying, 'it's okay to be imperfect, we'll take those imperefections and make the most of them'. It's just another marketing gimmick.

It IS ok to be imperfect, and most women (most people?) would have at least ONE thing about their body that they are not too happy about, but the implication is that anyone who is reasonably happy with their body shape, whether it is healthy or otherwise, is not a "real woman". I find that offensive!

Eviledna · 04-07-2008 3:45pm

Jesus curvyvixen, well done! That is brilliant weight loss, you really must have worked very hard for that. Well deserved!

As for the OP, I think the "real women" phrase is used to counteract the fashion industry's obsession with women that are small in size, all the supermodels, etc. I would hope that girls that are naturally that way wouldn't take the real women phrase to heart, as it is only overcompensation for a fashion industry that completely ignores the "average" size.

It's overly simplistic for people to say "just work out and that'll make you thin/healthy/[insert optimal word here]", because just like the OP's missus who can't gain weight no matter what, there are people in the world that have a harder time loosing it than others.

To obsess either way is just as unhealthy, and in the end it only sells magazines and clothes and dove products for marketing companies that pit us all against one another as a means to an end.

The only qualification to being a real woman is
a) to exist in this universe
b)to have female genitalia (trans-genders may disagree here, but thats another debate)

I really admire people who work hard to be healthy and achieve happiness in themselves. Whatever weight that lies at depends on the person. For me its a size 12. That's what suits me. Other people that say I'm fat/unhealthy/more real than others can go and $hite.;)

NextSteps · 04-07-2008 3:51pm

I thought the phrase had to do with women who are not models and airbrushed, whether or not they are good-looking. So its being hijacked by marketers to mean tubby women is a bit annoying.

CatLady1 · 04-07-2008 3:51pm

why do we feel the need to decide what a 'real woman' is??

we are so critical of ourselves and others that it is easy to miss the important things that make a person who they are. its not all about looks

Toto Wolfcastle · 04-07-2008 3:57pm

I'm a size 6-8 and am a healthy weight. I'm naturally thin. No matter what I eat I can't put on weight. Since I was in secondary school I've had people commenting on my weight, telling me how skinny I am in a bitchy way. I always replied that I could be a model if I wanted to be (although I'm too short!) and that shut them up.

This 'real women' thing has annoyed me for awhile. I am a real woman. Just because I don't put on weight as much as others doesn't make me any less real. I've heard a lot of people saying that skinny girls are awful looking and that 'real women' are better. People never stop to think that they might be hurting some one's feelings.

I can never mention how difficult I find it to find clothes that fit because people seem to think that because I'm skinny it couldn't possibly be a bit problem.

I'm a nice person. I would never call someone fat to their face, no matter how much they deserved it. Why then do others seem to think it's ok to insinuate that I have some sort of eating disorder? I eat more than my 17 stone male friend!

/rant

gabgab · 04-07-2008 3:58pm

Thats phenomenal stuff Curvy, well done on being a fitter and healthier person!!

r3nu4l · 04-07-2008 4:14pm

Neesa wrote: »

OP, I'm not condeming your lovely other half but I will make this point: You shouldn't be proud of not exercising and if your gf isn't exercising at all then she really should consider starting.

Being slim doesn't give you immunity from being ill, nor does it give you an automatic pass to the term "fit". Everyone, of all shapes and sizes, should take some basic form of exercise. Not for vanity reason, but for health ones.

Ha ha, Neesa, I'm a medical writer I know that being skinny does not automatically equate to being healthy. The reason I highlighted that my wife is not a gym-bunny was because I didn't want people thinking that she's only skinny because she spends her whole life exercising. I was emphasising the point that she does nothing to maintain her figure...I'm not 'proud' of it. My own grandmother was very thin herself but died at 74 of a massive heart-attack thanks to clogged arteries, my Dad ran several marathons and is slim himself but had a quintuple bypass last year thanks to clogged arteries (mostly from smoking).

who's yer one? wrote: »

i'm the same height/weight size as yer missus it seems (an inch shorter but close enough). i actually get poked in the side by people going 'lookit you, youre so skinny' or references to Kate Moss in Family Guy (she turns to the side and disappears). but imagine if you poked a 'larger woman' in the side and went 'you're kind of tubby, aren't you?'

Yes, there is a double standrad at work. Saying "lay off the cheeseburgers" to a larger lady would rightly get you a smack in the chops yet telling a thinner woman she "needs to eat more" seems to be perfectly okay.

doctor evil wrote: »

Real women to me means any woman with a blemish aka not air brushed to death, size does not come into account.

UB wrote: »

I thought the phrase had to do with women who are not models and airbrushed, whether or not they are good-looking. So its being hijacked by marketers to mean tubby women is a bit annoying.

Well here's the thing, with Dove, they claimed that it was for all women but the majority of the ladies in their PR photos are "curvy" plus-sizes with a token woman who is a bit slimmer but no size 8-10 (almost like the way some TV shows have a token black guy to avoid accusations of racism).

Have a look at this from Unilever

Unilever wrote:

When the Dove team decided to use real women instead of professional models to launch its new Firming range, it was clear that this was going be no ordinary advertising campaign. With a refreshing take on beauty, a celebrity photographer, and real women with real curves, the promotion had all the ingredients to get people talking. Through clever use of PR, Dove managed to achieve massive media coverage, including a national debate on body shapes.
.
.
.
We found that women felt intimidated and depressed by the prevalence of 'stick-thin' models.
.
.
.
The concept

Rejecting the 'airbrush treatment' that we've come to expect from beauty advertising, Dove would feature ordinary women of all shapes and sizes

So yes, they reject the airbrush...but they also reject the 'stick-thin' and want 'real' curves.

Now, the original campaign used girls that were not fat, they were curvy and big, maybe slightly overweight but not obese. However, Gok Wan, Trinny and Susannah etc have jumped on the self-esteem bandwagon by saying that it's okay to be obese, you can still look good naked etc. This much is true but they have also taken the "real women" catch-phrase and applied it to any and all plus sized women. That is wrong, a thin girl is just as much a real woman as a heavier woman. That's my point.

Twee. · 04-07-2008 5:04pm

Absolute marketing gimmick but it still annoys me! I know I'm only 18, not long on the "woman" side of things! I know size doesn't always mirror a persons' actual health status, but often it does. Many people praised Beth Ditto in the past years for being proud and curvy, being who she wants to be etc but the bottom line is she was extremely over weight and at risk of a whole host of diet and weight related issues, not just CHD and heart issues but weakening of joints and bones. She appeared on the cover of NME naked and looked good thanks to being airbrushed beyond belief!
I'm 5'6" and a size ten and think I am VERY real!

marti101 · 04-07-2008 5:12pm

Curvy Vixen wrote: »

I don't know the answer to that question to be honest. But I would probably base it a little more on what's going on in their insides rather than necessarily what you can see IYSWIM? My Dad is just under 6 foot, has always had a very healthy diet, doesn't eat sweets etc. etc. but has had 2 heart attcks in the last 3 years. He has always smoked and has 3 blocked arteries and the 4th working at approx 60% of what it should be. Put him next to my Mum and most people would assume she is the unhealthy one though....

In answer to the size 14 question, I have lost over 13 stone in the last 2 years ~ I have some excess skin that no amount of exercise will shift ~ hence a size 14...

Fair balls to you for losing all that weight feck the begrudgers.The sooner people realise that we all come in different shapes and sizes.Nobody has the right to make personal comments as nobody knows whats going on in your life.

fuzzywiggle · 04-07-2008 5:43pm

Why would something so trivial annoy you.
Anyway no it doesnt bother me

"Real women" - rant alert...

Does the phrase "Real Women" annoy you? 109 votes

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