Letters from Child Benefit every 4 months

wuzzik · 10-11-2011 2:56pm #1

I would like to find out if other parents are experiencing difficulties with their Child Benefit. My daughter gets a letter every four months asking her to prove that she is still resident in the country. She sends it back to the child benefit section and a month later her child benefit stops and she phones them and they claim they never received the letter.

She then has to get confirmation from her sons school stating that he is attending the school therefore still resident in Ireland and her Child Benefit is finally reinstated and back paid. Then a few months later we start the same process over again. She now views child benefit as a savings account because she does eventually get it all back but can not rely on it on a monthly basis.

I believe that the reason that she gets the letters is because she has a foreign name but she has lived in Ireland from the age of 14 and her son was born in Ireland. She is also working and paying tax. I received the same letters for about a year before my youngest reached 18.

She queried this with Child Benefit section and they advised her that there are 4 different letters (for different circumstances) and every parent in Ireland gets one of these letters every four months. I have checked with all of my friends and she has checked with hers and none of them receive letters.

Please could you shed some light on this. ARE YOU RECEIVING LETTERS??

Ayla · 10-11-2011 3:03pm

Yes, I was getting these letters with infuriating frequency. I grew up in the states but am legally resident here. The whole idea is that they're trying to prove that your daughter is legitimately entitled to the payment and that she is resident in state.

I would strongly suggest that your daughter contact them and discuss this situation. Every four months (without good cause) could be classified as harrassment.

Oryx · 10-11-2011 3:07pm

I got one a month ago. First one in years.

cynder · 10-11-2011 5:53pm

I got one a month ago, get them every now and now

mmalaka · 10-11-2011 6:00pm

Yes we are getting the letter..

How your daughter send the letters back? does she use envelope provided by the child benefit?

vicwatson · 10-11-2011 6:03pm

Got one a month ago too, never got one before

January · 10-11-2011 6:27pm

I think if I were your daughter I would start registering the letters she is sending back, they can't claim they didn't receive them if they have to be signed for.

angeldaisy · 10-11-2011 8:10pm

I was getting these letters regularly and phoned a couple of times to ask why I was continually getting them - got the 'its standard' response. So the next time I got one I wrote a letter to go with it. I explained that I had no problems filling in the forms and returning them, but this form was my 6th time getting one and I was concerned about the waste of money sending me the forms and the pre-paid envelope. Haven't had a form in about 12 months now:D

Orion · 10-11-2011 10:23pm

wuzzik wrote: »

they advised her that there are 4 different letters (for different circumstances) and every parent in Ireland gets one of these letters every four months.

Well that's rubbish. My twins are 8 and we've never received a letter.

I'm moving this to the State Benefits forum. The folks there may have a better idea on how to deal with this. I'll leave a redirect in Parenting so people in both forums can contribute.

Toodles_27 · 10-11-2011 10:57pm

Check out citizens information regarding child benefit:

http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/social_welfare/social_welfare_payments/social_welfare_payments_to_families_and_children/child_benefit.html

.............."Anti-fraud checks
EU/EEA citizens and Swiss national covered by EU Regulations are required to certify every 4 months that they continue to work in this State.

Non-EU/EEA citizens are also required to certify every 4 months that they and their children continue to live in this State."

Could this possibly be the reason??

wuzzik · 10-11-2011 11:41pm

Ayla wrote: »

Yes, I was getting these letters with infuriating frequency. I grew up in the states but am legally resident here. The whole idea is that they're trying to prove that your daughter is legitimately entitled to the payment and that she is resident in state.

I would strongly suggest that your daughter contact them and discuss this situation. Every four months (without good cause) could be classified as harrassment.

Thanks Ayla she has contacted them and they just say that everyone is getting these letters but I do not believe that. h

wuzzik · 10-11-2011 11:43pm

mmalaka wrote: »

Yes we are getting the letter..

How your daughter send the letters back? does she use envelope provided by the child benefit?

Yes she uses the envelope that they provide but her payment has been stopped three or four times in the last year

wuzzik · 10-11-2011 11:45pm

January wrote: »

I think if I were your daughter I would start registering the letters she is sending back, they can't claim they didn't receive them if they have to be signed for.

I think you could be right January. I will advise her to do that in the future.

wuzzik · 10-11-2011 11:46pm

angeldaisy wrote: »

I was getting these letters regularly and phoned a couple of times to ask why I was continually getting them - got the 'its standard' response. So the next time I got one I wrote a letter to go with it. I explained that I had no problems filling in the forms and returning them, but this form was my 6th time getting one and I was concerned about the waste of money sending me the forms and the pre-paid envelope. Haven't had a form in about 12 months now:D

HAHA they must have crossed you off their mailing list

wmpdd3 · 10-11-2011 11:47pm

I work with some of Polish/Irish colleagues and they get them very often. I, or anyone I know have never had them. I have a relitive from America who is here about 10 years and she never had that form for any of her children.

wuzzik · 11-11-2011 12:03am

Toodles_27 wrote: »

Check out citizens information regarding child benefit:

http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/social_welfare/social_welfare_payments/social_welfare_payments_to_families_and_children/child_benefit.html

.............."Anti-fraud checks
EU/EEA citizens and Swiss national covered by EU Regulations are required to certify every 4 months that they continue to work in this State.

Non-EU/EEA citizens are also required to certify every 4 months that they and their children continue to live in this State."

Could this possibly be the reason??

Thanks I guess that this is the answer. You would think by now they would have linked systems and know that people are obviously working here if they are paying tax here. Is this a new thing?? Just wondering because I was paid child benefit for 10 years and it was only last year that I started getting them. I wonder how much it costs them to post out all these letters

Agent_99 · 11-11-2011 9:43am

wuzzik wrote: »

I wonder how much it costs them to post out all these letters

I guess that it is a small cost compared to the savings made on fraudulent claims due to mass migration out of the country in recent years. Returning these forms will help to maintain the current rate for the rest of us. Small inconvenience to some of us that rely on this payment to make ends meet.

Ebony1 · 11-11-2011 10:27am

Have been getting these letters too on a very frequent basis, which is very annoying. And last week, I also didn't receive child benefit, although I did return the form. I don't understand why the government departments do not link up their database. If they did, it would be very clear that I am still resident in this country, as I am paying PAYE taxes every month through company payroll (have been working for the same company for over 10 years). I understand that they need to take action to prevent fraudulent claims, but surely there are better ways to do this then to waste tax payers money on sending out these forms all the time. A simple communication between revenue and social welfare (database link) would solve a lot of these issues and it would also find fraudulent claims a lot easier. Called child benefit section and they said they didn't receive the form back. They will send me out another form and child benefit will be reinstated as soon as they receive it back. When I complained about the frequency of these forms they said it's standard procedure and everyone gets them. However, none of my Irish friends have ever heard of them and when I said to my employer that they must be getting sick of having to sign these forms for everyone, they informed me I am the only one asking them to do so. Am also the only EU national in the company who's entitled to child benefit. What are the changes these are related ???????????

wmpdd3 · 11-11-2011 11:24pm

Thats a good point, I dont know of any person who was born in another EU country but is not currently employed here getting these forms. I can ask. Some female friends of mine are now in 1 income familys now, I'll ask do they still get the forms.

It does seem to be only the working people getting the forms.

Seems like nothing is linked, each social welfare office needs a copy your correspondence from ever other government dept, madness.

hootietootie · 12-11-2011 11:26am

I live in Letterkenny, and when we moved house almost 2 years ago I dropped a letter into the offices with a change of address. Roll on September and no payment in the post office. They have said that they sent a form to my old address (they say they never received my letter), and that they are being sent to everyone. I was born here, have never been outside the country for more than 1 week(and that was over 10 years ago). I am on a CE scheme, so get my money from FAS every week, but they have said that there is no way they can see who is getting social welfare or FAS payments. They have now received my letter containing bank statement, letter from school and work contract to prove I still live here, but I have been told I will receive these forms every couple of months now because I moved and didn't let them know-even though as far as I was aware they had received everything!

EGAR · 14-11-2011 12:19am

I live here for 16 years and come from an EU country. My son whose father is Irish is now 7 years old and I have been getting these letters every 3-4 months. I have sent accompanying letters etc but never got a reply and the letters keep coming, I always sent them back and the benefit was never stopped.

wuzzik · 16-11-2011 11:48pm

However, none of my Irish friends have ever heard of them and when I said to my employer that they must be getting sick of having to sign these forms for everyone, they informed me I am the only one asking them to do so. Am also the only EU national in the company who's entitled to child benefit. What are the changes these are related ???????????[/QUOTE]

That does not surprise me at all. I do not know any Irish people who get them. Perhaps there are a few but it is not the norm.

wuzzik · 16-11-2011 11:52pm

Agent_99 wrote: »

I guess that it is a small cost compared to the savings made on fraudulent claims due to mass migration out of the country in recent years. Returning these forms will help to maintain the current rate for the rest of us. Small inconvenience to some of us that rely on this payment to make ends meet.

Depends whether you are the one asking your employer and your childs school to sign them every three or four months. There are thousands of Irish people leaving the country but very few are getting the letters so they would get away with it whilst those from outside Ireland who are paying tax here face this on an ongoing basis.

canonball5 · 17-11-2011 12:03am

It is quite clear this is a racism issue.. My partner (foreign) gets them for our daughter every couple of weeks.

A girl in work has just started getting these forms, since changing her name to her husbands (who is foreign)

I wonder how much money has been wasted sending these letters !!

cee_jay · 17-11-2011 12:13am

This certification is a requirement to continue to receive Child Benefit. From [url]www.welfare.ie:[/url]

Anti-fraud checks
EU/EEA citizens and Swiss national covered by EU Regulations are required to certify every 4 months that they continue to work in this State.

Non-EU/EEA citizens are also required to certify every 4 months that they and their children continue to live in this State.

vicM · 18-11-2011 7:42pm

canonball5 wrote: »

It is quite clear this is a racism issue.. My partner (foreign) gets them for our daughter every couple of weeks.

A girl in work has just started getting these forms, since changing her name to her husbands (who is foreign)

I wonder how much money has been wasted sending these letters !!

How So? Common sense would dictate that foreigners would more likely leave the state compared to Irish. Hence its only fair that they are the first call for verification.

How much is child benefit for 4 months? 560e? how much is a stamp? 30c

Or dont you like the government to save as much as possible with the current scenario blah, blah

We recieve the letter every 4 months, fill it in and post it back no bother

cee_jay · 18-11-2011 7:53pm

vicM wrote: »

How much is child benefit for 4 months? 560e? how much is a stamp? 30c

An envelope is enclosed to send the form back freepost.

vicM · 18-11-2011 7:55pm

cee_jay wrote: »

An envelope is enclosed to send the form back freepost.

And yet its still an issue for some

easy1 · 19-11-2011 10:02am

vicM wrote: »

And yet its still an issue for some

Sorry for saying this,but somebody post letters using registered post,because they get lost in child's benefit office.That was happen with few my friends.
And registered post cost around 5 euro to send letter.

mymo · 19-11-2011 10:16am

I also get these letters quite often, only about twice or 3 times a year I think.
I was born in the UK and put British as my nationality on the form the first time I got one (about 3 years ago) and started getting them regularly.
A friend advised me since I have an Irish passport and Irish family to put Irish as the nationality, and guess what, no letters since february.

Having spoken to a few parents, it seems some have got them and some not, but the ones that put any nationality other than irish get them repeatedly.
I can understand the anti fraud thing, there is a lot of it going on, but they are also useless when it comes to dealing with them, I tried to change address and my surname about 6 times, finally they did it but stopped my money because of a mistake. Its awful trying to get through and get it sorted.

Just to add, I also called them to tell them the situation with the change of nationality, they said no problem.

professore · 19-11-2011 10:39am

I'm as Irish as they come, but my wife is Belgian and we get the letters every 3 months. We've lived here since 1998 and have 2 kids born and raised here. We're no more or less likely to leave than anyone else, especially now.

To be honest it's a form of discrimination against "non-nationals" - either everyone should get these letters or no-one should.

mp22 · 19-11-2011 2:53pm

5. This is not a forum for critiscizing Government Departments or Semi-State Bodies.

5a - 5 includes the policies of the Government Departments or Semi-State Bodies

If this discussion can continue without infringing on the above fair enough,if not the thread will be closed.

mp22

LovelyHurling · 19-11-2011 3:33pm

cee_jay wrote: »

From [url]www.welfare.ie:[/url]

Anti-fraud checks
EU/EEA citizens and Swiss national covered by EU Regulations are required to certify every 4 months that they continue to work in this State.

What do they mean 'continue to work in the state'. Since when do you have to be working to receive child benefit? If an EU citizen working in Ireland loses their job, they are still entitled to child benefit.

Since Irish people are also EU citizens, that paragraph does not really clarify whether or not Irish citizens have to prove their continuing residence here or not.

GerardKeating · 19-11-2011 3:56pm

vicM wrote: »

And yet its still an issue for some

Actually the last two times there was no envelope. :-(

cee_jay · 19-11-2011 4:00pm

Child Benefit is a payment subject to Habitual Residence Condition. However, Child Benefit is classed as a Family Benefit under EU regulations. Therefore, EU/EEA citizens and Swiss nationals working in Ireland satisfy the habitual residence condition for Child Benefit.
From the guidelines:

Child Benefit is classified under EU law as a Family Benefit. Applicants whose entitlement to Child Benefit derive from the application of the provisions of EEC Regulation 1408/71 do not have to satisfy the condition as European legislation takes precedence over Irish legislation. In effect the EU rules contained in Articles 73 to 76 of Regulation 1408/71 governing the payment of family benefit to migrant workers from EEA Member States override the habitual residence requirements under the Social Welfare Acts.

These rules apply to employed or self employed EEA nationals, who have become subject to Irish PRSI since coming to Ireland, and their entitlement continues if they become unemployed and receive Irish Unemployment Benefit.

But if an EEA national comes to Ireland, and never works, they would be subject to Habitual Residence Condition. Also, if you lose your job, and don't claim benefits it seems you may lose this entitlement.

LovelyHurling · 19-11-2011 11:22pm

But surely all child benefit recipients are subject to habitual residence conditions - just like most social welfare claims.

So can someone clarify whether or not Irish people (Irish citizens) are obligated to prove their ongoing residence in Ireland on a thrice-yearly basis?

The welfare link posted earlier doesn't really clarify this, as Irish people are 'EU citizens' just like people from 26 other member states.

wmpdd3 · 20-11-2011 12:34am

Right I was talking to some in payroll, about 50 employees where I work were not born in Ireland and have children.

Most have had to fill out these form atleast once a year. One girl didnt, she's married to an irish guy and both she and her baby have his sirname.

One girl is from Africa, she has had the form every 4 months since her two kids were born.

3 girl used to work with me, but now dont work, their husbands work. They have not had to fill in the forms since they left work.

One friend of mine is marries to a german guy and has never had to fill out the forms.

Dont know what any of the is can really tell you but I have still to find an Irish born person who has had to fill out the forms.

LovelyHurling · 20-11-2011 1:28am

How is child benefit paid, through the post office?

Surely a more hassle free method from the point of view of the SWO could simply be to put a short expiry on post office transfers, and thereafter to monitor post office collections?

I mean that's what happens with JSA, so why not Child Benefit too?

mrsbyrne · 20-11-2011 2:22am

LovelyHurling wrote: »

How is child benefit paid, through the post office?

Surely a more hassle free method from the point of view of the SWO could simply be to put a short expiry on post office transfers, and thereafter to monitor post office collections?

I mean that's what happens with JSA, so why not Child Benefit too?

most child benefit claimants are paid into bank accounts. Child benefit and JSA are simply not comparable at all.

Agent_99 · 20-11-2011 11:04am

wmpdd3 wrote: »

Dont know what any of the is can really tell you but I have still to find an Irish born person who has had to fill out the forms.

I am Irish Born married to Irish Man, 2 Irish Kids and have had to fill in the form a least once a year for the last few years. Our surname is the second most common in Ireland.

hootietootie · 20-11-2011 12:07pm

As I said earlier, they have told me that everyone will have to fill these out. I am Irish, my partner is Irish, my money is not paid into the bank, I collect the week it comes out.

LovelyHurling · 20-11-2011 5:23pm

mrsbyrne wrote: »

most child benefit claimants are paid into bank accounts. Child benefit and JSA are simply not comparable at all.

Nobody said they were comparable in a general sense - where they are comparable, though, is in the sense that one must be resident in the state to continue claiming these sorts of transfer payments.

And one way the the DSP ensure that JSA claimants remain resident is for a short expiry condition on welfare transfers via the post office. If you don't pick it up within about 6 days, it's gone (unless you can explain later why you missed the payment).

Why not just cut the paperwork & do the same for Child Benefit? get rid of bank transfers altogether.

professore · 21-11-2011 10:50am

MAybe it's everyone that gets paid by bank transfer then? I know we do.

spurious · 21-11-2011 11:01am

I have a Latvian friend. She gets these letters too. Her replies used to 'go missing', so she registers everything now.

wmpdd3 · 21-11-2011 11:26am

I would have no problem collecting it in the post-office, it would keep many of them open and viable. But if you work full time, you'd only have a 4 hr window per week to collect it. As long as they left it in the post office for 3 weeks (in case you go on holiday), it might be OK.

LegacyUser · 21-11-2011 12:03pm

GerardKeating wrote: »

Actually the last two times there was no envelope. :-(

Yes, but the form said "This slip must be completed within 21 days and returned in an envelope to the above address. Please write FREEPOST on the envelope and no postage stamp will be required (Republic of Ireland Only)....."

spurious wrote: »

I have a Latvian friend. She gets these letters too. Her replies used to 'go missing', so she registers everything now.
(

I will be posting back a form today, and I will have to do this also because of problems the last time. I would be worried that it would get lost in their office, and they might blame us or An Post.

.

In our case, my wife was born abroad, and had nationality of her home country when our child was born in Ireland. However she was already an Irish citizen by the time these letters started arriving a few years ago, and put "Irish" on the first and all other forms.

On the latest form she wrote "same as last time" for nationality, phone number and school details, but they returned it, saying "you failed to complete the form properly".

LovelyHurling · 21-11-2011 6:44pm

wmpdd3 wrote: »

I would have no problem collecting it in the post-office, it would keep many of them open and viable. But if you work full time, you'd only have a 4 hr window per week to collect it.

Many post offices open Saturdays and open beyond regular office opening hours. Most do not close for lunch.

As long as they left it in the post office for 3 weeks (in case you go on holiday), it might be OK.

That would defeat the purpose. In that case, it could be worth a fraudulent recipient's time in spending one week in Ireland every 2 months to pick up 2 transfer payments at the post office.

It should work like the JSA/JSB: if you won't be in the country, inform the Department of Social Protection. There's no reason why parents of children should feel any more a sense of entitlement to this payment than jobseekers to theirs.

wmpdd3 · 22-11-2011 11:18pm

LovelyHurling wrote: »

Many post offices open Saturdays and open beyond regular office opening hours. Most do not close for lunch.

That would defeat the purpose. In that case, it could be worth a fraudulent recipient's time in spending one week in Ireland every 2 months to pick up 2 transfer payments at the post office.

It should work like the JSA/JSB: if you won't be in the country, inform the Department of Social Protection. There's no reason why parents of children should feel any more a sense of entitlement to this payment than jobseekers to theirs.

Yeah, the main one in town is open from 9-1 on a Saturday, but you could have thousands of clients trying to get in, in those 4 hours. I suppose if the post offices were paid a small sum to pay out the payment it may be worth their while to open all day Saturday.

I was thinking of familys going on holidays and missing the week the payment would be available, but yeah an online holiday booking form to cover that month would work and not tie too much payroll.

angelfire9 · 23-11-2011 5:51am

I'm Irish as is my hubby
His surname would be one of the top 10 Irish surnames
My surname is spanish from about 20 generations back

I get these forms at least once a year it used to be more frequent

Had a social welfare inspector call about 2 years ago to confirm that I was still in the country (about a month after I lost my job)
Because I don't look "Typically" irish he started out by stating "My name is Joe Soap from the local social welfare office just checking up on the status of the child benefit claim registered to this address, is your name "*** ****" ?

To which I replied "Sea, cad ba mhaith leat?

Oh says he, you speak irish?

"Sea, cinnte, rugadh agus tógadh me in Inis"

End of questions!

:D:D

wmpdd3 · 27-02-2012 3:39pm

Well,I spoke too soon.

Today, I got one of these letters, I have 21 days to post it back.

Its a bit different to the ones they were sending out last year. I had to state my nationality; Irish and I have to give the name of the creche my 1 year old goes to and the Doctor for my 4 week old.

I dont have to give any documentation..yet, just the names.

Last year my friends got letters that had to be signed by their employer to prove they were still in the country.

wotaccent · 27-02-2012 6:54pm

It's ridiculous that in this day and age they still have to send out letters, and especially asking for your employer to sign. We should be at the stage where the relevant government departments are linked up. I get a CB letter like the one you received every few weeks, usually with only a few days to spare. I never, ever receive one before at least 10 days of the 21 are already up.

Letters from Child Benefit every 4 months

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