iPad 3 or laptop for engineering?( Mod Post: #68 READ)

THEMRMONGOOSE · 09-02-2012 9:37pm #1

I'm thinking of doing biomedical engineering and was wondering if an iPad 3 would do me. I'd happily go for a laptop as they are way more powerful but I hate them and much prefer tablets.
Are the engineering textbooks offered in ebook form? I dont want to be lugging around a load of books or a big heavy laptop. I'm quite the lazy student!:D

BhoscaCapall · 09-02-2012 9:58pm

Is this a joke?

Why would anyone want an iPad over a laptop for college?

My advice would be to buy a laptop but tell everyone you also own an iPad at every opportunity, this way you get the best of both worlds.

THEMRMONGOOSE · 09-02-2012 10:01pm

BhoscaCapall wrote: »

Is this a joke?

Why would anyone want an iPad over a laptop for college?

My advice would be to buy a laptop but tell everyone you also own an iPad at every opportunity, this way you get the best of both worlds.

I don't want an iPad for bragging rights. I just think they are way more convenient for note taking and the fact that all the books are on it so some days you can just bring the iPad along to college instead of a bag full of books and notes.

Janedoe10 · 09-02-2012 10:08pm

If u are using it for note taking then yes the iPad is light and perfect for that . But if will u will doing some engineering program's or items for practicals etc u have more leverage with the laptop . Won't u need to back up your work too ? Lectures . ? Nothing worse u lose your iPad or drop it and your years notes gone too .

Gurgle · 09-02-2012 10:10pm

You're going to need a computer if you're doing any form of engineering. Actually, scratch that; you'll need a computer if you're going to college.
Ah, you're trolling. Nevermind.

partyatmygaff · 09-02-2012 10:14pm

Tablets are actually useless for note taking tbh. You need a bluetooth keyboard and stand to type anywhere near as fast as you'd need to for note-taking. Not only that but seeing as you're planning on doing Engineering you'll be including a lot of diagrams and symbols in your notes.

I'd go for a laptop if I were you. Anything with a decent graphics card and high resolution screen should do.

THEMRMONGOOSE · 09-02-2012 10:17pm

Janedoe10 wrote: »

If u are using it for note taking then yes the iPad is light and perfect for that . But if will u will doing some engineering program's or items for practicals etc u have more leverage with the laptop . Won't u need to back up your work too ? Lectures . ? Nothing worse u lose your iPad or drop it and your years notes gone too .

Thats what i like about it, its quick and easy. I'm looking into a laptop also because i suppose its just realistic not to have one. Worst case scenario if i were to lose it, everything is backed up in iCloud anyway so it wouldnt be the end of the world.

THEMRMONGOOSE · 09-02-2012 10:24pm

partyatmygaff wrote: »

Tablets are actually useless for note taking tbh. You need a bluetooth keyboard and stand to type anywhere near as fast as you'd need to for note-taking. Not only that but seeing as you're planning on doing Engineering you'll be including a lot of diagrams and symbols in your notes.

I'd go for a laptop if I were you. Anything with a decent graphics card and high resolution screen should do.

I've messed around with my friend's iPad and since i have an iphone I'm very fast at typing on it so i wouldn't be too disadvantaged but point taken.
Would I need a very powerful laptop for some of the programs? I was looking into ultrabook/macbook air laptops as they are fairly portable but they are quite expensive and I'm left thinking would i need all that power?

Your Airbag · 09-02-2012 10:31pm

Get yourself one of these and a dirt cheap PC

Janedoe10 · 09-02-2012 11:54pm

U can type very quick on the iPad . Touch typing is very quick .

Janedoe10 · 09-02-2012 11:59pm

Check mactivate in Dublin if u are looking for refurbished macs . Saw good price there (online) but it was a few months back . The apple online store has a refurbished site too . Other than that u can check adds . Or buy new.can u buy macs on a pay so much each month I wonder ? Have to check that me self .

Yahew · 10-02-2012 12:04am

The iPad is useful for note taking, if you can type fast on it.

It is a useful as tits on a bicycle for engineering drawing at the moment. Things may change in the future - it would need to become stylus friendly I think. But best with a cheaper laptop for now.

partyatmygaff · 10-02-2012 12:19am

Janedoe10 wrote: »

Check mactivate in Dublin if u are looking for refurbished macs . Saw good price there (online) but it was a few months back . The apple online store has a refurbished site too . Other than that u can check adds . Or buy new.can u buy macs on a pay so much each month I wonder ? Have to check that me self .

Macs are pretty useless for Engineering. They're not offered with workstation graphics cards and most Engineering software is designed for Windows.

THEMRMONGOOSE · 10-02-2012 12:59am

partyatmygaff wrote: »

Macs are pretty useless for Engineering. They're not offered with workstation graphics cards and most Engineering software is designed for Windows.

I heard you can run the windows programs in bootcamp though? I'd prob go for a pc although they're nowhere near as thin and light as the macbook air. But if macs are useless for engineering realistically there's no point getting one...

partyatmygaff · 10-02-2012 1:16am

THEMRMONGOOSE wrote: »

I heard you can run the windows programs in bootcamp though? I'd prob go for a pc although they're nowhere near as thin and light as the macbook air. But if macs are useless for engineering realistically there's no point getting one...

You can but a Macbook Air isn't anywhere near powerful enough to run Engineering software.

Yahew · 10-02-2012 1:17am

partyatmygaff wrote: »

You can but a Macbook Air isn't anywhere near powerful enough to run Engineering software.

Ignore this technical illiterate post. The problem is the non-existence of the software - but it depends on what you need - not the graphics card on the Air, or Macbook.

OP, what software do you think your course would need?

partyatmygaff · 10-02-2012 1:34am

Yahew wrote: »

Ignore this technical illiterate post.

Technically illiterate, me? I'm not the one entertaining the idea of suggesting a Macbook Air to someone who needs a laptop for an Engineering degree.

The problem is the non-existence of the software - but it depends on what you need - not the graphics card on the Air, or Macbook.

Non-existence of the software? What does that even mean? I'd imagine almost all Engineering degrees will require students to use 3D Modelling applications like Solidworks. A Macbook Air will *run* Solidworks fine. The issues start when you actually work in Solidworks. If things get even slightly complicated it'll become unbearably slow.

Landoflemon · 10-02-2012 1:36am

Finished my mechanical engineering degree in Limerick last year, if that's the type of engineering you're doing avoid Macs. Most of the CAD software and finite element analysis stuff will not be compatible plus most likely any of the programs your lecturers recommend will be exclusively windows based. Windows 7 is a great OS to work with.

If you're doing CAD, any MacBook air or windows ultra book will start chugging when you start doing any serious rendering or mechanism work. Whatever you do, as potability seems to be a concern of yours, don't get anything with larger than 15 inch screen.

Incidentally, I give some of the CAD and FEA labs in UL and I use an iPad for this, very convenient for attendance taking and when I'm talking the class through tutorial problem I have an annotated PDF in my hand on the iPad which is very handy when standing in front of a class and need a quick prompt as to what I will cover next.

An iPad will not be sufficient for taking engineering notes, far too many diagrams with tiny labels and complex equations!

Yahew · 10-02-2012 1:40am

partyatmygaff wrote: »

Technically illiterate, me? I'm not the one entertaining the idea of suggesting a Macbook Air to someone who needs a laptop for an Engineering degree.

Technically illiterate. Who did you think I referring to when I quoted the post. The AIR has a graphics card better than anything avail be 5 years ago, so either engineering software didn't run then on anything

And I didn't actually promote the AIR, because I wasn't sure if it had the software he needed, but then given that you cant understand simple English.

Non-existence of the software? What does that even mean?

It's simple English.

I'd imagine almost all Engineering degrees will require students to use 3D Modelling applications like Solidworks. A Macbook Air will *run* Solidworks fine. The issues start when you actually work in Solidworks. If things get even slightly complicated it'll become unbearably slow.

I doubt it. The number of polygons in most Engineering designs must be far lower than one scene of one relatively primitive FPS.

Landoflemon · 10-02-2012 1:47am

You'd be surprised how fast CAD will bring a computer to it's knees, it's not entirely comparable to polygon count in games. For example my over clocked, water-cooled, PC will play certain games generating 80 frames/images a second, give it a decent model to render and all of a sudden you're waiting 5 minutes for a single image to be generated!

srsly78 · 10-02-2012 1:51am

Yahew wrote: »

Technically illiterate. Who did you think I referring to when I quoted the post. The AIR has a graphics card better than anything avail be 5 years ago, so either engineering software didn't run then on anything

You are just making yourself look silly now. The macbook air doesn't have a discrete graphics card at all, it has Intel integrated on-chip graphics. Even the latest version of this is pretty rubbish for anything 3d (cad or games), also it completely lacks basic stuff like antialiasing.

THEMRMONGOOSE · 10-02-2012 2:54am

As much as I would like to get the air, from what you've said i think i'll stay away from it.
Someone said that even an intel ultrabook would start to chug along but i thought that these would be very powerful machines. I suppose you're paying for the thinness in the end.

As a biomed engineering course has chemistry and biology lectures I think i'll get and iPad as well as a laptop, it couldn't hurt to have both considering the iPad will come in handy for note taking in non-maths lectures.
I was researching into the benefits of the iPad and found out that I can download free Yale and harvard engineering notes and lectures off of iTunesU and iBooks2.I know the laptop will be my main machine but this is a very handy study tool to have for extra reference and information.

I have one last question, With Ivy Bridge coming out, will that make some of the intel ultrabooks noticeably more powerful and actually worth the fairly high price tag?

partyatmygaff · 10-02-2012 3:06am

Yahew wrote: »

Technically illiterate. Who did you think I referring to when I quoted the post.

You must have missed the lesson on rhetorical questions in school.

The AIR has a graphics card better than anything avail be 5 years ago,

No it doesn't, my technically illiterate fellow. The Geforce 4400 Ti that I remember being all the rage when I was 8 years old in 2002 even beats the i5 ULV's graphics controller. http://www.videocardbenchmark.net/video_lookup.php?gpu=Quadro+FX+570

so either engineering software didn't run then on anything

Are you familiar with the concept of software developing and changing to take advantage of current-day hardware?

And I didn't actually promote the AIR, because I wasn't sure if it had the software he needed, but then given that you cant understand simple English.

How embarrassing.

It's simple English.

Simple English arranged stupidly speaking nonsense.

I doubt it. The number of polygons in most Engineering designs must be far lower than one scene of one relatively primitive FPS.

Yet again, you've demonstrated to us all that you haven't got a clue about what you're talking about.

longhalloween · 10-02-2012 3:16am

Laptop all the way.

You will be expected to have prototyping software such as CAD, MultiSim and a few others so spare yourself the compatibility hassle and go for Windows 7.

You'll also be able to pick up a decent laptop cheaper than an iPad.

Don't worry about all the above comments, they're just posturing. Any half decent laptop will do, the lecturers won't expect all the students to have access to cutting edge technology and you can always use computer labs if you have any intensive modelling.

Best of luck with your degree!

Landoflemon · 10-02-2012 9:57am

longhalloween wrote: »

Laptop all the way.

You will be expected to have prototyping software such as CAD, MultiSim and a few others so spare yourself the compatibility hassle and go for Windows 7.

You'll also be able to pick up a decent laptop cheaper than an iPad.

Don't worry about all the above comments, they're just posturing. Any half decent laptop will do, the lecturers won't expect all the students to have access to cutting edge technology and you can always use computer labs if you have any intensive modelling.

Best of luck with your degree!

The above response is accurate and concise with regard to the laptop question, however I don't believe all the previous responses should be dismissed as posturing.

srsly78 · 10-02-2012 10:43am

THEMRMONGOOSE wrote: »

I have one last question, With Ivy Bridge coming out, will that make some of the intel ultrabooks noticeably more powerful and actually worth the fairly high price tag?

Ultrabooks are just like the macbook air. They have no graphics card, the integrated intel is rubbish. Stuff like antialiasing is very important for CAD.

So no.

Tora Bora · 10-02-2012 10:45am

You need to take a tablet, not use one:cool:

marketty · 10-02-2012 10:55am

Get a windows laptop with a good graphics card and plenty of ram for your projects.
For note taking get an iPen and iPaper.
For angry birds get an iPad.
You get some free apple stickers with it that you can stick over your laptop manufacturers logo and onto your copy books.

musical.x · 10-02-2012 12:28pm

Enough with the insults please. If the grammar and spelling bother you that much don't read the thread. thanks!

joeKel73 · 10-02-2012 12:52pm

You'll get a much more powerful laptop for the price you'll pay for your Mac. Get plenty of RAM. Also worth picking up a second monitor for cheap (or free) somewhere - great when doing projects without having to flick between windows for data/assignment.

Also worth noting that you can download most of the Autodesk software for free here as a student; http://students.autodesk.com/
(takes some 1st years a good while to realise that)

partyatmygaff · 10-02-2012 2:22pm

If you want a laptop that will last you for the duration of the degree, get a refurbished Dell Precision M4600. €1200ish but it's a bulletproof Engineering workstation.

THEMRMONGOOSE · 10-02-2012 10:12pm

Thanks for the replies,much appreciated! Good to know I don't have to buy a ridiculously expensive and potentially useless laptop, I'll save a ton!:)
By any chance has anyone done the biomedical/other engineering course?
I want to know what I'm in for:p

aperture_nuig · 11-02-2012 2:48am

THEMRMONGOOSE wrote: »

Thanks for the replies,much appreciated! Good to know I don't have to buy a ridiculously expensive and potentially useless laptop, I'll save a ton!:)
By any chance has anyone done the biomedical/other engineering course?
I want to know what I'm in for:p

I'm in final year electronic & computer engineering, and what most of the guys in here have said already is true. Civil , Bio and mech engineering all require the use of some intense modelling software that will mangle anything that isn't up to scratch in terms of performance. On the other hand, the new Eng building has some very, very good lenovo desktops available for anyone to use and they run windows, so you can use them for assignments in CAD etc(most people do). Funnily enough, you'll get by in computer engineering with anything good enough to run a pdf viewer for notes!

From a course/department opinion perspective, there have been a few threads asking for help with engineering courses, have a search on this forum and you'll find them.

E&C Eng in my opinion is a great course, I really enjoyed it. Lecturers were very good, subjects were interesting etc. One thing that applies across the board: Engineering is hard. I'm coming fairly close to the top of my class and honestly, it is very difficult. There are long hours, some pointless modules, assignments, projects, tests labs.....
You will sit maths, maths physics, chemistry & science as part of any 1st year course, after that it depends on what you're doing. I actually started off with undenominated eng in 1st year, and I can't recommend it enough.

If you have any more questions on my course or another one( I have mates in most of the other courses), reply here or drop me a PM.

tracker-man · 11-02-2012 3:33pm

I cannot believe how unbelievably unhelpful people on this thread have been.

To the OP:

I recommend you get the iPad. It can be used with a stylus. There will be no problem taking notes on it, no matter what funny symbols or diagrams you need to write. Get the app "Ghostwriter". Its not free but well worth the few euro it costs.

Do not buy a laptop before getting into college, and whatever you do, do not buy the Lenovo laptop that the Engineering and IT faculty have been promoting the last few years. Its rubbish for the price. If after a few weeks you think you need to buy a laptop, off you go.

All the software you could need for your engineering degree is installed on the computers in the Engineering Building.

The ghostwriter app is the bees knees.

partyatmygaff · 11-02-2012 3:44pm

tracker-man wrote: »

I cannot believe how unbelievably unhelpful people on this thread have been.

How have people been unhelpful? Is it only helpful if we suggest that he buys an iPad?

I recommend you get the iPad. It can be used with a stylus. There will be no problem taking notes on it, no matter what funny symbols or diagrams you need to write. Get the app "Ghostwriter". Its not free but well worth the few euro it costs.

I tried that idea out for a few lectures this year. It's completely impractical. Anything you write will be huge and messy, it's inefficient and there's no way of drawing things like graphs without it all looking like one big terrible mess.

If someone is dead set on handwriting their notes, they may as well stick to pen and paper. The only tablet PCs that can actually rival pen and paper cost well over €1000. An iPad won't cut it.

Landoflemon · 11-02-2012 4:21pm

partyatmygaff wrote: »

If someone is dead set on handwriting their notes, they may as well stick to pen and paper. The only tablet PCs that can actually rival pen and paper cost well over €1000. An iPad won't cut it.

This is probably the best advice, I've looked up ghostwriter and its terribly laggy in its response and there is still no way it will be as accurate as a pen in your hand making contact with paper. Subscript and superscript in equations will be illegible if you're writing them on the ipad unless you write the equations very big.

I'm guessing that NUIG is Like UL in that the computer Lab with all the engineering software is also used as a lab for engineering classes and you're asked to leave if you're not there for that particular class, this is why I would recommend having a laptop with your engineering software on it so that you can do it wherever you feel like, such as in the library.

Landoflemon · 11-02-2012 4:22pm

Also, pardon my ignorance, but is the computer lab in NUIG accessible 24/7 like the one in UL?

Damie · 11-02-2012 8:27pm

partyatmygaff wrote: »

You can but a Macbook Air isn't anywhere near powerful enough to run Engineering software.

What software can a macbook air not cope with? Very vague and inaccurate statement tbf

partyatmygaff · 11-02-2012 9:37pm

Damie wrote: »

What software can a macbook air not cope with? Very vague and inaccurate statement tbf

Engineering Software: Namely the likes of Solidworks and other 3D modelling applications.

There's nothing inaccurate about that and if you think it is, i'd recommend you try it out for yourself.

Damie · 12-02-2012 1:47am

partyatmygaff wrote: »

Engineering Software: Namely the likes of Solidworks and other 3D modelling applications.

There's nothing inaccurate about that and if you think it is, i'd recommend you try it out for yourself.

Its totally inaccurate when you don't know the spec of the computer. I've used various 3d software on a mac while also running a VM with Windows and other 3d software. These sort of vague inaccurate statements are not helpful.

partyatmygaff · 12-02-2012 3:01am

Damie wrote: »

Its totally inaccurate when you don't know the spec of the computer.

Eh, I do. Even a top-end Macbook Air isn't a suitable purchase for Engineering software.

I've used various 3d software on a mac while also running a VM with Windows and other 3d software. These sort of vague inaccurate statements are not helpful.

Vague is saying "I've used various 3d software on a Mac". You do realise that not all Macs are the same, right? There's nothing vague, inaccurate or unhelpful about anything that i've said in this thread. Apple fans seem to taken issue with me daring to suggest that perhaps an Apple product may not be ideal but that does not make anything that i've said any less accurate.

I don't even know why I need to argue this point. To anyone with even the most basic knowledge of computer hardware, the idea of buying a laptop with a ULV CPU to run CAD software is unfathomable. Why should he pay €1000 to buy an underpowered ULV laptop when he can spend a tiny bit more and get a world-class mobile workstation that's actually going to be capable of competently running the software he needs to run?

GarIT · 12-02-2012 3:28am

Im doing Comp Science so it's probably slightly different but I plan on spending around €700 on building a decent desktop and then around €300 on a netbook.

srsly78 · 12-02-2012 12:12pm

Damie wrote: »

Its totally inaccurate when you don't know the spec of the computer. I've used various 3d software on a mac while also running a VM with Windows and other 3d software. These sort of vague inaccurate statements are not helpful.

But we do know the spec. Mac book air = no graphics card!

If it was a macbook pro you could install windows on it and be good to go.

Damie · 12-02-2012 3:57pm

partyatmygaff wrote: »

Eh, I do. Even a top-end Macbook Air isn't a suitable purchase for Engineering software.

Vague is saying "I've used various 3d software on a Mac". You do realise that not all Macs are the same, right? There's nothing vague, inaccurate or unhelpful about anything that i've said in this thread. Apple fans seem to taken issue with me daring to suggest that perhaps an Apple product may not be ideal but that does not make anything that i've said any less accurate.

You seem to answer my point yourself.
Anyway, far from a fanboy am I....
I was just pointing out that it is vague and inaccurate to comment on "what can run what" without all the details.

I don't even know why I need to argue this point. To anyone with even the most basic knowledge of computer hardware, the idea of buying a laptop with a ULV CPU to run CAD software is unfathomable. Why should he pay €1000 to buy an underpowered ULV laptop when he can spend a tiny bit more and get a world-class mobile workstation that's actually going to be capable of competently running the software he needs to run?

But I agree with you on this point. While it may be possible to run CAD or Poser or 3DsMax or whatever on a mobile device, in no way is it a perfect solution due to graphics/ram/processor restrictions. Use the college computers and buy a pen and paper and save your money for something more worthwhile! My 2 cent

partyatmygaff · 12-02-2012 4:05pm

Damie wrote: »

You seem to answer my point yourself.
Anyway, far from a fanboy am I....
I was just pointing out that it is vague and inaccurate to comment on "what can run what" without all the details.

He specifically asked about the Macbook Air. If you took time to actually read the thread instead of getting indignant and defensive of Macs you would have noticed that.

But I agree with you on this point. While it may be possible to run CAD or Poser or 3DsMax or whatever on a mobile device, in no way is it a perfect solution due to graphics/ram/processor restrictions. Use the college computers and buy a pen and paper and save your money for something more worthwhile! My 2 cent

A mobile workstation would be fairly competent at running most CAD software. They're not any more expensive than a Macbook but they're far more powerful.

Damie · 12-02-2012 5:47pm

partyatmygaff wrote: »

He specifically asked about the Macbook Air. If you took time to actually read the thread instead of getting indignant and defensive of Macs you would have noticed that.

A mobile workstation would be fairly competent at running most CAD software. They're not any more expensive than a Macbook but they're far more powerful.

As I said, I'm not a fanboy or was in no way indignant. I merely pointed out that you were wrong when you stated that Macs could not run engineering software.

partyatmygaff · 12-02-2012 5:53pm

Damie wrote: »

As I said, I'm not a fanboy or was in no way indignant. I merely pointed out that you were wrong when you stated that Macs could not run engineering software.

And they cannot. The vast majority of Engineering software is Windows only. Buying a Mac to run Windows on it defeats the purpose. If you prefer Windows there are far superior laptops available at the same price point than any Macbook.

With that in mind, it makes absolutely no sense for someone doing an Engineering degree to buy a Macbook of any description. If they can get an ISV-certified mobile workstation of a laptop with better hardware and better build quality for the same price as a Macbook, why should the idea of suggesting a Macbook even be entertained?

Damie · 12-02-2012 7:05pm

Well if you read what I said, use the college machines and get a pen and paper for notes. That's my opinion. Your opinion is to buy a high end laptop. He mentioned a iPad and others. His opinion.

I'm not pushing my opinion on him, just correcting mistakes in others advise. Maybe take note. I think the thread is derailed enough at this stage.

partyatmygaff · 12-02-2012 7:37pm

Damie wrote: »

Well if you read what I said, use the college machines and get a pen and paper for notes. That's my opinion. Your opinion is to buy a high end laptop. He mentioned a iPad and others. His opinion.

Actually he was asking if he should get an iPad 3 or laptop for college. My opinion is that he should go for a powerful Windows laptop as it would serve for note-taking, studying and working on assignments.

I'm not pushing my opinion on him, just correcting mistakes in others advise. Maybe take note. I think the thread is derailed enough at this stage.

Que? What is this nonsense? No one is pushing an opinion on anyone. I'm just answering the OP's question and for the record you haven't "corrected mistakes in other people's advice". All you've done is misinterpret other people's posts.

KittyeeTrix · 12-02-2012 8:01pm

Mod Note: Lads, give over the bickering with each other.....Cheers

Janedoe10 · 13-02-2012 12:18am

Exactly if u really really want windows u can install windows in the partition Bootcamp . So u can have the best of both worlds

iPad 3 or laptop for engineering?( Mod Post: #68 *READ*)

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iPad 3 or laptop for engineering?( Mod Post: #68 READ)